[Bebestation]

If we are trying to implement a high pressing team then obviously Ronaldo doesnt fit in much.

Exactly.

No pressing. No hold up play. No passing.

And yet he is the main attacking aspect of our first 11 directly in the centre of the team with everyone else's role turning to passing towards him. Suddenly players that were fine being selfish last year have become a problem because they are now shooting instead of passing to a more selfish player centrally.

As I've said before- selfish players like Salah and Mane - can you imagine them having to focus on Ronaldo? Henderson's passing or who? What about the pressing? Is the central one supposed to be lazy like Ronaldo or does he have to be like Firmino or Jota.

Ronaldo at SAF - nothing like possesion football or gegenpressing
Zidane? Ancelotti? Nothing showing a certain style of football as seen by Pep or Klopps team.

 

[IhabX7]

I think all of us want Ronaldo to be a succes but there is nothing wrong with pointing problems with players whether its Ronaldo, Rashford or Martial. Its what the internet is for

There's a difference between pointing out problems and having a long running agenda and trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit.

 

[Gehrman]

There's a difference between pointing out problems and having a long running agenda and trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit.

He's very good with stats.

 

[the_cliff]

Yeah we drew.

When Ronaldo came on we drew. Just like against Chelsea.

In fact Games we've played in the league without Ronaldo in the starting 11 this season:

W vs Leeds
D vs Southampton
W vs Wolves
D against Everton (were winning until Ronaldo came on)
D against Chelsea (were winning until Ronaldo came on)

 

[Deery]

When Ronaldo came on we drew. Just like against Chelsea.

In fact Games we've played in the league without Ronaldo in the starting 11 this season:

W vs Leeds
D vs Southampton
W vs Wolves
D against Everton (were winning until Ronaldo came on)
D against Chelsea (were winning until Ronaldo came on)

Pretty shit then without Ronaldo.

 

[the_cliff]

Pretty shit then without Ronaldo.

Even shitter with.

 

[Ixion]

I just look at the Europa League Final when people say Ronaldo is the source of our problems, that was just as lifeless as any game this season. Our form post-January last season in general was on a downward trajectory.

 

[steffyr2]

I think all of us want Ronaldo to be a succes but there is nothing wrong with pointing problems with players whether its Ronaldo, Rashford or Martial. Its what the internet is for

No, there are plenty of people who don't want Ronaldo to be a success at United. They say so.
There's too much pointing out problems for all the players -- it's depressing. I can't see that it helps anybody anyway.

 

[the_cliff]

I just look at the Europa League Final when people say Ronaldo is the source of our problems, that was just as lifeless as any game this season. Our form post-January last season in general was on a downward trajectory.

Mate I don't think you're getting the point.

Nobody in here is claiming we're going to win the treble as soon as we drop Ronaldo. There are many problems with the team but Ronaldo has made things worse not better. If you can't see the difference between our general play and results from last season to this season then idk what you're watching.

If we were so bad last season why was this place so optimistic we'd challenge for the title with Ronaldo ?

We're bad without Ronaldo but not as bad as we are with him. That's the point.

 

[RepardReece]

Yes but I believe the idea is to get rid of that messiness as opposed to thriving in it while Ronaldo gets a decent goal output. This whole defence that "we were shit before he came" doesn't make any sense unless our signings are actually not aimed at hugely improving us.

Of course they were aimed at improving us. Aren't all signings?

That defense is perfectly valid imo, last season was a mess too, but Bruno bailed us out, for the most part, bar the backend of last season where Bruno was exhausted and we were catastrophically bad. People call out Ronaldo causing this and that but the truth is the problems were there last season, and if not for our numerous magical comebacks mainly thanks to Bruno, we'd have had just a poor season last year as we have had this year. The difference is we haven't been able to grind out those turnarounds this year.

Ronaldo definitely wasn't a part of Ole's plans, and I do agree that hasn't helped with things, but we'd more than likely be worse off currently than we are (probably same position league-wise, but we'd be well and truly back in the Europa).

 

[RepardReece]

Mate I don't think you're getting the point.

Nobody in here is claiming we're going to win the treble as soon as we drop Ronaldo. There are many problems with the team but Ronaldo has made things worse not better. If you can't see the difference between our general play and results from last season to this season then idk what you're watching.

If we were so bad last season why was this place so optimistic we'd challenge for the title with Ronaldo ?

We're bad without Ronaldo but not as bad as we are with him. That's the point.

I don't think you got his comment either, he said just as lifeless as any other game this season, i.e. that's just as bad.

Bruno is the sole reason we did as well as we did last season. Once he dropped off late last season we really did look like we do now.

 

[the_cliff]

I don't think you got his comment either, he said just as lifeless as any other game this season, i.e. that's just as bad.

Bruno is the sole reason we did as well as we did last season. Once he dropped off late last season we really did look like we do now.

I disagree, there were more good games last season compared to the lifeless ones. Meanwhile this season has so far been the opposite.

Again no one is answering the question
If we were so bad last season why was this place so optimistic we'd challenge for the title with Ronaldo ?

The optimism in this place before the beginning of the season was the best it's been post Fergie. Why was that so if we were so bad last season ?

We were inconsistent, yes. But nowhere near as bad as this season.

Also, people like to talk about or PL form towards the end of last season. Not mentioning we had big squad rotation in the PL (as second was already cemented) Elanga and Amad started the last 3 games iirc.

 

[Nordmore]

Mate I don't think you're getting the point.

Nobody in here is claiming we're going to win the treble as soon as we drop Ronaldo. There are many problems with the team but Ronaldo has made things worse not better. If you can't see the difference between our general play and results from last season to this season then idk what you're watching.

If we were so bad last season why was this place so optimistic we'd challenge for the title with Ronaldo ?

We're bad without Ronaldo but not as bad as we are with him. That's the point.

Spot on.

Ronaldo is not the only problem but one of the problems.

People is a bit naive imo if they think dropping Ronaldo would suddenly make us playing perfect football. No we won't we still have other problems for example the glaring issue in the midfield which can't be solved unless we buy a good defensive midfielder or Ralf somehow would turn McT or Fred into one. But surely we could solve the Ronaldo issue by benching him before we can buy a new defensive midfielder.

You always should take the step available to you first. We were still bad, but much better against Villa than against Norwich, Watford, Newcastle and Wolves.

 

[RepardReece]

I disagree, there were more good games last season compared to the lifeless ones. Meanwhile this season has so far been the opposite.

Again no one is answering the question
If we were so bad last season why was this place so optimistic we'd challenge for the title with Ronaldo ?

The optimism in this place before the beginning of the season was the best it's been post Fergie. Why was that so if we were so bad last season ?

We were inconsistent, yes. But nowhere near as bad as this season.

Also, people like to talk about or PL form towards the end of last season. Not mentioning we had big squad rotation in the PL (as second was already cemented) Elanga and Amad started the last 3 games iirc.

Because we signed Ronaldo everyone managed to get overly excited. On top of the squad we have, on paper, it looks absolutely brilliant and still does. But then, we have Ole who many of us here have been calling out since he first signed that permanent contract. Many became disillusioned, and why wouldn't you, we brought back one of the best players ever. (Personally I predicted us to finish 4th but hey ho).

Alright, ye sure we did some rotating towards the end of last season, but we didn't for the Europa league final, did we? And that was the worst of the lot no? Bruno wasn't as influential for a while before rotating, scoring only 3 in 12 games (PL). We got hammered to Liverpool 4-2 with what was basically our starting xi?

Look, I'm not saying Ronaldo is a god or anything like that, he is most definitely an issue, especially with the way Ralf probably wants us to play (pressing, although we haven't really seen that yet), but he isn't the cause of this downfall and there is plenty to go by to evidence this. Lets include the Wolves game before Ronaldo joined too, what a mess that was and we were very lucky not to concede 5.

 

[the_cliff]

Because we signed Ronaldo everyone managed to get overly excited. On top of the squad we have, on paper, it looks absolutely brilliant and still does. But then, we have Ole who many of us here have been calling out since he first signed that permanent contract. Many became disillusioned, and why wouldn't you, we brought back one of the best players ever. (Personally I predicted us to finish 4th but hey ho).

Alright, ye sure we did some rotating towards the end of last season, but we didn't for the Europa league final, did we? And that was the worst of the lot no? Bruno wasn't as influential for a while before rotating, scoring only 3 in 12 games (PL). We got hammered to Liverpool 4-2 with what was basically our starting xi?

Look, I'm not saying Ronaldo is a god or anything like that, he is most definitely an issue, especially with the way Ralf probably wants us to play (pressing, although we haven't really seen that yet), but he isn't the cause of this downfall and there is plenty to go by to evidence this. Lets include the Wolves game before Ronaldo joined too, what a mess that was and we were very lucky not to concede 5.

Even prior to the Ronaldo signing people were very optimistic. The Ronaldo signing felt like a 'cherry on top' signing of what people thought was our best transfer window in a long time.

So we are in agreement then. I'm not saying we'd win the league without him, we're far from the finished product. Imo I still think we're further away then what most people think. Most people think we just need a new midfield. I think we need starting fullbacks, a CB, 2 midfielders, a CF and a right winger.

I don't think Shaw, AWB, Mctominay, Rashford, Ronaldo and Maguire are good enough quality to challenge for the title and they're regular starters for us. All I'm saying is Ronaldo is a part of that group and he's most definitely not our 'saviour' and we most certainly wouldn't be in a relegation fight without him.

 

[RepardReece]

Even prior to the Ronaldo signing people were very optimistic. The Ronaldo signing felt like a 'cherry on top' signing of what people thought was our best transfer window in a long time.

So we are in agreement then. I'm not saying we'd win the league without him, we're far from the finished product. Imo I still think we're further away then what most people think. Most people think we just need a new midfield. I think we need starting fullbacks, a CB, 2 midfielders, a CF and a right winger.

I don't think Shaw, AWB, Mctominay, Rashford, Ronaldo and Maguire are good enough quality to challenge for the title and they're regular starters for us. All I'm saying is Ronaldo is a part of that group and he's most definitely not our 'saviour' and we most certainly wouldn't be in a relegation fight without him.

Fair enough, personally never saw Ole winning a title, but I can see why people thought so with the team we had.

I agree with the players you've pointed out, I'd be tempted to include Greenwood really too. personally don't see what others see in him, I see another Rashford, a guy that'll never reach his full potential. Hope I'm wrong on that one though. All be it I do disagree about Ronaldo, I think we'd be more than capable of winning a league with him still in the squad.

 

[the_cliff]

Fair enough, personally never saw Ole winning a title, but I can see why people thought so with the team we had.

I agree with the players you've pointed out, I'd be tempted to include Greenwood really too. personally don't see what others see in him, I see another Rashford, a guy that'll never reach his full potential. Hope I'm wrong on that one though. All be it I do disagree about Ronaldo, I think we'd be more than capable of winning a league with him still in the squad.

I mentioned starters. I do think we could win the league with all of the mentioned players in the squad, but not as starters.

The problem is all of those players are on starters wages, with starters egos and I don't think anyone of them will accept being a squad option barring maybe AWB and Mctominay.

 

[troylocker]

I just look at the Europa League Final when people say Ronaldo is the source of our problems, that was just as lifeless as any game this season. Our form post-January last season in general was on a downward trajectory.

There's a difference between pointing out problems and having a long running agenda and trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit.

My honest opinion is that playing good football is harder with a player that gets that much focus when we are attacking and at the same time doesn't put in the neccessary work defensively (no, blocking passing lanes is not enough), no matter how good he is. He has been enormously underwhelming in the PL, that makes any sacrifice regarding our playing style not worth the cost. Playing high press/gegen press is impossible and our counterattack numbers are reduced to a minimum with a player like Ronaldo on the pitch (unless his role drastically changes)
Give it 5 matches without him and I think it would be possible see the improvement.

I have no agenda against Ronaldo. All I want is for Man United to be as good as possible. I hope for a win every time we play.

If we drop Ronaldo and it turns out I'm right, then good.
If we don't drop him and it turns out I'm right, it would make me sad.
If it turns out he was is in fact the gel that made us overperform and have us 7th, then obviously that would make me sad, but for different reasons.
If we suddenly improve a lot with him and it just turns out I was wrong about his impact on our play, then that would make my day.

 

[RepardReece]

I mentioned starters. I do think we could win the league with all of the mentioned players in the squad, but not as starters.

The problem is all of those players are on starters wages, with starters egos and I don't think anyone of them will accept being a squad option barring maybe AWB and Mctominay.

Club needs a clean sweep really. I'd like to see a "take a pay cut or leave" attitude in future contract talks with these players. Most of them can leave for all I care. Regardless of Ralf's performances on the pitch this season, I'm hoping he is able to change some of the rubbish in the business end of things.

 

[Gehrman]

No, there are plenty of people who don't want Ronaldo to be a success at United. They say so.
There's too much pointing out problems for all the players -- it's depressing. I can't see that it helps anybody anyway.

There are probably a few. But signing an old poacher on massive wages does come with problems. Bar a few games his overall play has been dreadfull.

 

[troylocker]

We have played better than that with him. I can just imagine people who share your opinion being happy about those few minutes, feeling all self self congratulatory over what was still sub-par football.

Stop it mate, it's not healthy. You should be hoping Ronaldo gets on a good run of form for the sake of the team you support, and not that he doesn't so you can prove a point on the internet.

I hope we go on a good run of form regardless of who plays, mate. I want us to play the best possible football we can play.
Were you happy with how we played the first and last 10 minutes of the 1st half? Would you like to see more of that?
We saw a couple of glimpses of what we wanted to see, but 75% of the time we were struggling with the same issues as we have been since September: Individual errors, bad decision making, etc. No matter what changes you want to make it will take time to implement. We still had 10 shots on target vs Villas 4 and created 14 chances vs. Villas 7, so even though we were lucky not to concede we actually created quite a lot. We obviously want to dominate a team like Villa more at home and kill off these kind of matches in stead of being pushed back like we did in periods against Villa, and it annoys me as much as it does anyone else.

Here are some numbers from our last five matches:

With Ronaldo:

vs. Norwich:
5 vs. 5 shots on target - 8 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Newcastle:
4 vs. 8 shots on target - 11 vs. 9 chances created

vs. Burnley:
6 vs. 3 shots on target - 13 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Wolves
2 vs. 6 shots on target - 7 vs. 14 chances created

vs. Villa without Ronaldo:
10 vs. 4 shots on target - 14 vs. 7 chances created.

Three of those matches were against number 18., 19. and 20. on the table. The funny/sad thing is that some people stormed into this thread to post "hahaha! What you say now, Ronaldo naysayers?"-posts as if the Villa match somehow proved we are better with him than without him......

What can you say. One match is not enough to judge on and I would give it 5 to 10 matches before you could make a fair judgement, but if anything; those numbers above doesn't point in a direction where Ronaldo is the solution.

I like thinking longterm, and buying a 36/37 year old, offering him record high wages, with the plan of starting him every game, with the young and talented squad we have was wrong on so many levels. In my opinion that took us backwards instead of forwards, and it is visible both on the pitch and on the league table.

 

[Zlaatan]

There's a difference between pointing out problems and having a long running agenda and trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit.

@troylocker has probably posted 5-6 of the 10 best posts in this entire thread and backed up his arguments with a ton of stats and comparisons, just because you don't like his position and conclusions doesn't mean he's "trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit".

 

[Acole9]

What exactly are you basing this on?

19 performances against the same opponents as last season in the PL is in my opinion a better indicator than 6 matches against 3 totally different opponents (Leipzig and PSG was better than both Villareal and Atalanta in my book (and in UEFA rankings).

Our all over performances has been a lot worse so far this season compared to last season. How it would have been without Ronaldo is impossible to know.
Could we have been better without him? We was last season.
Could we have been worse? Could we really?

We were horrible on monday, for sure, but in the two periods we were good in the first half, why was that? Villa couldn't hold on to the ball for 5 seconds at the time in those two periods.
Could we have played like that with Ronaldo?

I think we would be worse yes, where would the goals come from for a start?

 

[Red Shorts]

I think we would be worse yes, where would the goals come from for a start?

With Greenwood's current habit of skimming it straight to the goalie, and Rashford's ability to have his shot blocked every time he shoots, it's hard to know really.

 

[IhabX7]

@troylocker has probably posted 5-6 of the 10 best posts in this entire thread and backed up his arguments with a ton of stats and comparisons, just because you don't like his position and conclusions doesn't mean he's "trying/hoping to prove it through the dumbest shit".

Stats don't mean anything when the whole team is not performing. We're playing like a pub team with or without him. That much is very obvious. Trying to pin it on a player is agenda driven and frankly deluded.

 

[captaincantona]

Stats don't mean anything when the whole team is not performing. We're playing like a pub team with or without him. That much is very obvious. Trying to pin it on a player is agenda driven and frankly deluded.

Again with the “agenda” bullshit.

 

[the_cliff]

Stats don't mean anything when the whole team is not performing. We're playing like a pub team with or without him. That much is very obvious. Trying to pin it on a player is agenda driven and frankly deluded.

But it's fine to criticise Rashford, Mctominay, Fred, AWB but Ronaldo is a step too far ?

Why ?

 

[IhabX7]

I hope we go on a good run of form regardless of who plays, mate. I want us to play the best possible football we can play.
Were you happy with how we played the first and last 10 minutes of the 1st half? Would you like to see more of that?
We saw a couple of glimpses of what we wanted to see, but 75% of the time we were struggling with the same issues as we have been since September: Individual errors, bad decision making, etc. No matter what changes you want to make it will take time to implement. We still had 10 shots on target vs Villas 4 and created 14 chances vs. Villas 7, so even though we were lucky not to concede we actually created quite a lot. We obviously want to dominate a team like Villa more at home and kill off these kind of matches in stead of being pushed back like we did in periods against Villa, and it annoys me as much as it does anyone else.

Here are some numbers from our last five matches:

With Ronaldo:

vs. Norwich:
5 vs. 5 shots on target - 8 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Newcastle:
4 vs. 8 shots on target - 11 vs. 9 chances created

vs. Burnley:
6 vs. 3 shots on target - 13 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Wolves
2 vs. 6 shots on target - 7 vs. 14 chances created

vs. Villa without Ronaldo:
10 vs. 4 shots on target - 14 vs. 7 chances created.

Three of those matches were against number 18., 19. and 20. on the table. The funny/sad thing is that some people stormed into this thread to post "hahaha! What you say now, Ronaldo naysayers?"-posts as if the Villa match somehow proved we are better with him than without him......

What can you say. One match is not enough to judge on and I would give it 5 to 10 matches before you could make a fair judgement, but if anything; those numbers above doesn't point in a direction where Ronaldo is the solution.

I like thinking longterm, and buying a 36/37 year old, offering him record high wages, with the plan of starting him every game, with the young and talented squad we have was wrong on so many levels. In my opinion that took us backwards instead of forwards, and it is visible both on the pitch and on the league table.

Teams perform differently on any given night. Stats as a dry meter to test a performance of a player doesn't cut it. You can catch an opposition on a great day and a bad one. Shots on target, chances created, the ball can bounce this way or that way, it doesn't matter. I watch the games and see for myself. And it's quite evident that Ronaldo is not the problem.

 

[IhabX7]

But it's fine to criticise Rashford, Mctominay, Fred, AWB but Ronaldo is a step too far ?

Why ?

Don't put words in my mouth. Never said that.

 

[the_cliff]

Don't put words in my mouth. Never said that.

Go to the Rashford thread, Mctominay thread, AWB thread, nobody is defending those players saying the whole team is playing badly you shouldn't pin it on only Rashford or only Mctominay.

In terms of performances in the league over the last 7 games Ronaldo has been terrible and is therefore being criticised as he should be.

 

[elnorte]

I hope we go on a good run of form regardless of who plays, mate. I want us to play the best possible football we can play.
Were you happy with how we played the first and last 10 minutes of the 1st half? Would you like to see more of that?
We saw a couple of glimpses of what we wanted to see, but 75% of the time we were struggling with the same issues as we have been since September: Individual errors, bad decision making, etc. No matter what changes you want to make it will take time to implement. We still had 10 shots on target vs Villas 4 and created 14 chances vs. Villas 7, so even though we were lucky not to concede we actually created quite a lot. We obviously want to dominate a team like Villa more at home and kill off these kind of matches in stead of being pushed back like we did in periods against Villa, and it annoys me as much as it does anyone else.

Here are some numbers from our last five matches:

With Ronaldo:

vs. Norwich:
5 vs. 5 shots on target - 8 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Newcastle:
4 vs. 8 shots on target - 11 vs. 9 chances created

vs. Burnley:
6 vs. 3 shots on target - 13 vs. 8 chances created

vs. Wolves
2 vs. 6 shots on target - 7 vs. 14 chances created

vs. Villa without Ronaldo:
10 vs. 4 shots on target - 14 vs. 7 chances created.

Three of those matches were against number 18., 19. and 20. on the table. The funny/sad thing is that some people stormed into this thread to post "hahaha! What you say now, Ronaldo naysayers?"-posts as if the Villa match somehow proved we are better with him than without him......

What can you say. One match is not enough to judge on and I would give it 5 to 10 matches before you could make a fair judgement, but if anything; those numbers above doesn't point in a direction where Ronaldo is the solution.

I like thinking longterm, and buying a 36/37 year old, offering him record high wages, with the plan of starting him every game, with the young and talented squad we have was wrong on so many levels. In my opinion that took us backwards instead of forwards, and it is visible both on the pitch and on the league table.

Say what?

 

[troylocker]

Teams perform differently on any given night. Stats as a dry meter to test a performance of a player doesn't cut it. You can catch an opposition on a great day and a bad one. Shots on target, chances created, the ball can bounce this way or that way, it doesn't matter. I watch the games and see for myself. And it's quite evident that Ronaldo is not the problem.

I don’t think that Ronaldo is the problem, but I think he has been our biggest problem. Big difference.
I agree one match doesn’t say much, but we are half way through the season and we’ve been playing worse football than I can remember. This one match on monday doesn’t prove anything, we were not very good, and despite that it was our best performance in a while. We created more and conceded fewer chances than we have in months. He’s played 90 minutes of every defeat we’ve had this season and we were completely destroyed by Watford, Leicester, Liverpool and City.
You watch the games with your own eyes.
All stats indicates that we perform, as a whole, on a lower level with him on the pitch (posted tons of stats showing this)than without him. All stats show that he’s not been as clinical as you want your main man to be in the PL (plenty of stats posted here to support that).

What exactly has he brought to the table in the league besides 2 penalty goals and a non penalty goal every 220 minutes?
Name one player that has become better with the arrival of the greatest goalscorer of all time (bar DDG)?
How are we better with him?
How is he part of a glorious Man United future?
Is there 0% chance Ronaldo has had a negative impact on our performances this season?
Don’t answer by pointing at other players, just answer the questions, please.

 

[troylocker]

Say what?

You a Man United fan?
Serious question.
Think about it.

 

[Mickeza]

Boomer Ronaldo

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[Wayne's World]

Great to see a United player knowing the standards of the club unlike alot of people at the club/fans who take 4th place as a success

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

Hear, Hear CR7. Spot on.

 

[Red the Bear]

Boomer Ronaldo

Live long enough to see yourself become the villan .

He's right though maybe I too have become a boomer.

 

[The United]

Since he is on his last legs even though he has been a legend of the game and did great things at United since 18 to become the world best player at 22, younger players like Greenwood or Rashford etc should not listen to him to improve their attitude and own abilities or something.

We have posters saying similar stuff to that.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

after these quotes I imagine the movie "300" right now

"SPARTANS, what is your profession ?"