Conor Gallagher | AtletiGO?

Very, very good player for a big club to have in your squad but he is not a starter for a club whose ambition is to get back into the UCL places and eventually challenge for titles again soon. He’s got endless energy and works tirelessly for the team but doesn’t really score, assist, or create that much.

Would be a shame to let a born and raised Chelsea boy go but for a big fee and with Lavia, Enzo, and Caicedo all hopefully fully fit heading into the new season we are well setup in CM. And there’s Andrey Santos who apparently did very well on loan this past season we could use in the squad, too.
 
STYLOISRED said:
Errrmm Mount reach double figures for both league goals and assists in 21/22 season while be an absolute workhorse. Gallagher has been good and I'm a big fan but I don't agree that Mount hasn't reached his level.
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If you want to base your opinion purely on stats, without actually watching the player regularly and devoid of any context - go right ahead. If I'm remembering correctly, only one of those goals was against opposition in the top half of the table. Havertz was way more instrumental and performed well in the big games.
 
Orc said:
Very, very good player for a big club to have in your squad but he is not a starter for a club whose ambition is to get back into the UCL places and eventually challenge for titles again soon. He’s got endless energy and works tirelessly for the team but doesn’t really score, assist, or create that much.
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Didn't Liverpool win the CL and PL by having a player who did those things? Also 7 goals and 9 assists is pretty decent for a CM?
 
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Watched a few Chelsea games this season, he was captain in most of them.

He gets around the pitch very well, is he an update on McTominay? I personally don't think so.

He is a better passer by a small amount but not as good at driving the ball.
 
Was about to talk him down for his output last season, especially remembering how productive he was on his loan spell at Palace. But then looks at his stats and he did get 5 goals and 7 assists, which really ain't bad and much more than I thought he had. So not sure Chelsea would really be better off without. Don't think he's any less deserving of a place as one of a midfield trio than Enzo, Caicedo or Lavia, just they haven't spunked loads of money on him.

The homegrown selling rule as part of FFP/whatever the the new acronym really is stupid to reward selling your own clubs academy players more than other players. Should just be full transfer fees in/out, and also none of this spreading the cost of transfer fee over contract length 'loophole' Chelsea have 'exploited'/shot themselves in the foot with.
 
SilentWitness said:
Didn't Liverpool win the CL and PL by having a player who did those things? Also 7 goals and 9 assists is pretty decent for a CM?
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Sure - if you look at him against other CMs, that looks great:


The problem is that's not how he was used for most of the year - he was almost exclusively used as a number 10, in which case it doesn't look so great:
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Sure - if you look at him against other CMs, that looks great:


The problem is that's not how he was used for most of the year - he was almost exclusively used as a number 10, in which case it doesn't look so great:
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In terms of the data, does it pull from when he's played as a CM to compare to other midfielders and vice versa, or does it just accumulate the data from every game they play, rendering the comparisons relatively useless?
 
SilentWitness said:
In terms of the data, does it pull from when he's played as a CM to compare to other midfielders and vice versa, or does it just accumulate the data from every game they play, rendering the comparisons relatively useless?
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The actual numbers are the same, so it must be from all games. It does make the percentile comparisons pretty pointless for versatile players.
 
SilentWitness said:
In terms of the data, does it pull from when he's played as a CM to compare to other midfielders and vice versa, or does it just accumulate the data from every game they play, rendering the comparisons relatively useless?
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It's accumulated data but the more salient comparison is the second because that's where he was deployed for the vast majority of his minutes this past year.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
It's accumulated data but the more salient comparison is the second because that's where he was deployed for the vast majority of his minutes this past year.
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Well transfermarkt has it down as 21 games AM, 18 games CM, 8 games DM and 2 games as a LM, so it's difficult to really say what to believe if you just go by figures. It's really why the eye test in conjunction with data always needs to be used. Some players on fbref look trash in terms of their percentiles (hello Mainoo) but when you watch them you can see where their qualities lay and they're much better than given credit for. I don't think it's possible to use data like that to a good level when it's taking overall data rather than fixating on the position which it is comparing to.
 
SilentWitness said:
Well transfermarkt has it down as 21 games AM, 18 games CM, 8 games DM and 2 games as a LM, so it's difficult to really say what to believe if you just go by figures. It's really why the eye test in conjunction with data always needs to be used. Some players on fbref look trash in terms of their percentiles (hello Mainoo) but when you watch them you can see where their qualities lay and they're much better than given credit for. I don't think it's possible to use data like that to a good level when it's taking overall data rather than fixating on the position which it is comparing to.
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You could use smarterscout, which does differentiate based on where they played and when, but they use their own model ranking system which can appear a little obtuse.
 
SilentWitness said:
Well transfermarkt has it down as 21 games AM, 18 games CM, 8 games DM and 2 games as a LM, so it's difficult to really say what to believe if you just go by figures. It's really why the eye test in conjunction with data always needs to be used. Some players on fbref look trash in terms of their percentiles (hello Mainoo) but when you watch them you can see where their qualities lay and they're much better than given credit for. I don't think it's possible to use data like that to a good level when it's taking overall data rather than fixating on the position which it is comparing to.
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Well sure. I've also watched every minute he played this season; my eye test happens to agree with the numbers - he's just not good enough in the final third to be an attacking midfielder and he's not good enough at ball progression to be a central midfielder in a top team that wants to have the ball the majority of the time.

He'd be a perfect midfielder for someone who is happy to sit deep - under someone like Conte he'd be great. When Poch was doing his chaos ball nonsense, Gallagher was a standout at times - but he's just not someone who is suited to a side playing possession football.
 
UsualSuspect said:
If you want to base your opinion purely on stats, without actually watching the player regularly and devoid of any context - go right ahead. If I'm remembering correctly, only one of those goals was against opposition in the top half of the table. Havertz was way more instrumental and performed well in the big games.
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Mount was twice-in-a-row your fans POTY, which included your CL winning season.

How is it possible for him to quite literally be voted the best player in your team twice, and yet not be deemed better than the person who hasn't been voted once.

It just doesn't logically compute.
 
Hardly a surprise, Chelsea need to sell homegrown players to make money.

I'd imagine he'll do well at Villa.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Well sure. I've also watched every minute he played this season; my eye test happens to agree with the numbers - he's just not good enough in the final third to be an attacking midfielder and he's not good enough at ball progression to be a central midfielder in a top team that wants to have the ball the majority of the time.

He'd be a perfect midfielder for someone who is happy to sit deep - under someone like Conte he'd be great. When Poch was doing his chaos ball nonsense, Gallagher was a standout at times - but he's just not someone who is suited to a side playing possession football.
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Fair enough if that's your opinion. I think he's capable of being a player at a CL level club though in the right system as a CM and he'd do well at either Villa or Spurs.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Well sure. I've also watched every minute he played this season; my eye test happens to agree with the numbers - he's just not good enough in the final third to be an attacking midfielder and he's not good enough at ball progression to be a central midfielder in a top team that wants to have the ball the majority of the time.

He'd be a perfect midfielder for someone who is happy to sit deep - under someone like Conte he'd be great. When Poch was doing his chaos ball nonsense, Gallagher was a standout at times - but he's just not someone who is suited to a side playing possession football.
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I agree that he isn’t a 10 but think he could be a CM for an excellent team in the right system. He’d fit right into Klopp’s old sides. He also might work as an all action player next to a DLP type, like a Gattuso. He might not end up as a fixture in a great team in these roles but as a useful squad player.
 
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TheMagicFoolBus said:
Well sure. I've also watched every minute he played this season; my eye test happens to agree with the numbers - he's just not good enough in the final third to be an attacking midfielder and he's not good enough at ball progression to be a central midfielder in a top team that wants to have the ball the majority of the time.

He'd be a perfect midfielder for someone who is happy to sit deep - under someone like Conte he'd be great. When Poch was doing his chaos ball nonsense, Gallagher was a standout at times - but he's just not someone who is suited to a side playing possession football.
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Fully agree. As a Chelsea fan who also watched all of his matches I appreciate Gallagher in the exact same way I did Mount when he was here. They are all action players who do a lot of things well but nothing excellently. They run around nonstop, get stuck in, press, do a lot of the dirty work for the team. They are a manager‘s dream, basically. The difference is that Mount at his best was WAY more productive in the final third and had more to his attacking game than Conor does.

He’s the sort of player that if you saw him at one of the traditional midtable clubs like a West Ham/Everton/Wolves etc you’d think “yeah, he’s a really solid midtable midfielder but doesn’t quite have the quality for a top team.”

Very good (but not top level) player who we’d ideally keep as a squad option. But if we can replicate the business we did with Mount and got £50m or more with 1 year remaining on his contract that’s business we have to do.
 
Powderfinger said:
I agree that he isn’t a 10 but think he could be a CM for an excellent team in the right system. He’d fit right into Klopp’s old sides. He also might work as an all action player next to a DLP type, like a Gattuso. He might not end up as a fixture in a great team in these roles but as a useful squad player.
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I agree, that was kind of my point initially to @Orc ...the attributes he pointed out are what Henderson was known for mostly at Liverpool I feel. Not every player in a team needs to be a superstar.
 
SilentWitness said:
I agree, that was kind of my point initially to @Orc ...the attributes he pointed out are what Henderson was known for mostly at Liverpool I feel. Not every player in a team needs to be a superstar.
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Henderson is a great comparison. Difference is that Liverpool could afford a “good at a lot of things but not great at anything” sort of player becuase they had an absolutely explosive, absurd front 3 in front of him with prime Mané & Salah.
 
Odd signing for Villa. I've seen him multiple times in person watching both United and England and I'm still to see what he does well. He just kind of runs around and "gets stuck in" which is exactly what Mark Noble used to do for West Ham and nobody ever wanted to sign him - and correctly so by the way. Unbelievable business by Chelsea if they can get £50m for him.
 
Powderfinger said:
I agree that he isn’t a 10 but think he could be a CM for an excellent team in the right system. He’d fit right into Klopp’s old sides. He also might work as an all action player next to a DLP type, like a Gattuso. He might not end up as a fixture in a great team in these roles but as a useful squad player.
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SilentWitness said:
I agree, that was kind of my point initially to @Orc ...the attributes he pointed out are what Henderson was known for mostly at Liverpool I feel.
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Don't disagree, although I'd say Henderson was a better progressive passer in fairness. Also think it's worth pointing out that Klopp had to move away from that sort of chaotic football to stay relevant - incidentally this is what Poch failed to do at Chelsea hence why Gallagher did well.

I just don't think that approach to football is compatible with the consistent and predictable results needed to win things at the top level anymore.
 
Good signing for Villa. People are acting like they have a world class team and Gallagher is beneath them, but the truth is they overachieved last season.
 
Hoof the ball said:
Mount was twice-in-a-row your fans POTY, which included your CL winning season.

How is it possible for him to quite literally be voted the best player in your team twice, and yet not be deemed better than the person who hasn't been voted once.

It just doesn't logically compute.
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It was a lot of people voting as some sort of "comeback" to the minority of idiots that irrationally hated him.

That said he did deserve it in 20/21 (a few could have made a claim he being one of them) but the following season Silva was robbed, if there was ever a time a player should have got 100% of the votes bar none....
 
Hoof the ball said:
Mount was twice-in-a-row your fans POTY, which included your CL winning season.

How is it possible for him to quite literally be voted the best player in your team twice, and yet not be deemed better than the person who hasn't been voted once.

It just doesn't logically compute.
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So he, the player who had a big push to be the next JT, club captain, and 'one of our own' - won a popularity contest for two years in a row at a time when we were quite poor...

Kovacic was immense, Kante was immense but both had injury issues. A few players had really impactful seasons. Mount's best contribution was his consistency and availability. Again, you are choosing to look at stats and awards over context.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Don't disagree, although I'd say Henderson was a better progressive passer in fairness. Also think it's worth pointing out that Klopp had to move away from that sort of chaotic football to stay relevant - incidentally this is what Poch failed to do at Chelsea hence why Gallagher did well.

I just don't think that approach to football is compatible with the consistent and predictable results needed to win things at the top level anymore.
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I think your last point is really important (about how chaotic football won't create consistent results), but there still may be a role for a player like Gallagher in a team that tries to play with a lot of control. I may be too influenced by what I see from my own team but Arsenal's level of control comes in many ways from how the team is set up out of possession and manages transitions - how it reacts to losing the ball, how it recovers into space, the focus with which it maintains shape or switches from one shape to the next, etc. And one of the key elements to that style is having two advanced midfielders that never stop running, especially the left 8 where Arteta has generally alternated playing Havertz and Rice, neither of whom is really a great progressive passer. One of the ways Arsenal improved a lot defensively this year from last is by switching out Xhaka - a willing runner but a mediocre athlete who struggled to cover ground and win open field duels - with a combination of Rice and Havertz in that part of the pitch. Arsenal are also very good at keeping the ball in possession but that's really a function of the entire team. You can carry a midfielder that isn't a particularly great passer - like Rice or Havertz if he plays there - if you have enough quality in the team in general.

I'm not saying Gallagher is a world beater by any means. But I'm not sure its right to say that he couldn't play a significant role - at least as a squad player - on a side competing for the biggest trophies. I would take him at Arsenal (albeit not for 50m) as squad depth in the advanced midfield roles.
 
Hoof the ball said:
Mount was twice-in-a-row your fans POTY, which included your CL winning season.

How is it possible for him to quite literally be voted the best player in your team twice, and yet not be deemed better than the person who hasn't been voted once.

It just doesn't logically compute.
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The revisionism on Mount is quite mind boggling, to be honest.
 
Powderfinger said:
I think your last point is really important (about how chaotic football won't create consistent results), but there still may be a role for a player like Gallagher in a team that tries to play with a lot of control. I may be too influenced by what I see from my own team but Arsenal's level of control comes in many ways from how the team is set up out of possession and manages transitions - how it reacts to losing the ball, how it recovers into space, the focus with which it maintains shape or switches from one shape to the next, etc. And one of the key elements to that style is having two advanced midfielders that never stop running, especially the left 8 where Arteta has generally alternated playing Havertz and Rice, neither of whom is really a great progressive passer. One of the ways Arsenal improved a lot defensively this year from last is by switching out Xhaka - a willing runner but a mediocre athlete who struggled to cover ground and win open field duels - with a combination of Rice and Havertz in that part of the pitch. Arsenal are also very good at keeping the ball in possession but that's really a function of the entire team. You can carry a midfielder that isn't a particularly great passer - like Rice or Havertz if he plays there - if you have enough quality in the team in general.

I'm not saying Gallagher is a world beater by any means. But I'm not sure its right to say that he couldn't play a significant role - at least as a squad player - on a side competing for the biggest trophies. I would take him at Arsenal (albeit not for 50m) as squad depth in the advanced midfield roles.
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Yeah I don't disagree with you and perhaps I'm coming across as overly harsh - I do like Gallagher as a person and a player, I just don't like him as a 10 in games where we have to push additional bodies up to make up for his lack of creativity in the final third which leaves us far too open on counters. He's an excellent option in matches against other top sides who want to control the ball and would be one of the best attacking midfield subs if you want to protect a lead from the hour mark on, that's for sure.

Your point about Rice and Havertz is well taken - but personally I think there is a potentially key difference as I'd argue both those Arsenal players do a better job of playing quickly & keeping the ball moving compared to Gallagher.
 
Think he's a bit underrated. I'd take him at Utd alongside Mainoo and Fernandes quite comfortably.

Villa know what they're doing.
 
Hughes35 said:
Think he's a bit underrated. I'd take him at Utd alongside Mainoo and Fernandes quite comfortably.

Villa know what they're doing.
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That I have no doubt. They act quick this summer to prepare a squad for the additional CL games. Matteo Guendouzi is linked for a reunite with Emery as well. Emery is looking for workhorses in the midfield.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
The revisionism on Mount is quite mind boggling, to be honest.
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Is it actual revisionism or are you guys just getting the opinions from different people?

In my years supporting the club I don't think I've seen many Chelsea players who've divided opinions as much as Mount did. Throughout the 4 years he played for the first team half the fanbase rated him really highly while the other half thought he was always bang average and should be replaced ASAP.

Maybe there's a portion of Chelsea fans who liked him but then started giving out some "didn't fancy her anyway" vibes as soon as it became clear he would be leaving but make no mistake there's a good chunk of weirdos who simply never rated him to begin with, even when he was still winning back-to-back club POTY's and there were zero rumors of him even thinking about moving to another club.

Personally I rated the 2019-2022 version of Mount really highly but his 22/23 season form was already becoming concerning and things don't seem to have gotten any better at United either. Based on the last couple of years I fear Lampard and Tuchel may have done some irreversible damage to him by severely overplaying him during those three years from 2019 to 2022. Players like Mount (and Gallagher as well) need to be in peak physical condition to be useful to the team because that tireless engine is what makes players like them tick.
 
I’ve been saying he should do this. Call their bluff. Ownership view him as a £50m asset. They won’t let him walk out of the door for free. They'll be forced to give him a new contract, which is basically what he’s wanted all along. The leverage is entirely on Gallagher’s side.

 
WeePat said:
I’ve been saying he should do this. Call their bluff. Ownership view him as a £50m asset. They won’t let him walk out of the door for free. They'll be forced to give him a new contract, which is basically what he’s wanted all along. The leverage is entirely on Gallagher’s side.

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well that’s us buying him for 50m the january before his contract expires.
 
I did read in the Standard a while back he didn't want to leave London so think this is more a put up or shut up to Spurs to actually bid for him as they'll be selling Hojbjerg and possibly Bissouma I reckon so will have space to play him.
 
WeePat said:
I’ve been saying he should do this. Call their bluff. Ownership view him as a £50m asset. They won’t let him walk out of the door for free. They'll be forced to give him a new contract, which is basically what he’s wanted all along. The leverage is entirely on Gallagher’s side.

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Honestly I think him staying would be a huge benefit to Chelsea. He was your best player for a good chunk of last season.
 
didz said:
Honestly I think him staying would be a huge benefit to Chelsea. He was your best player for a good chunk of last season.
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I want him to stay but part of the reason he looked the best player was Poch's chaos tactics.

If you get him they'd be similar shouts about McTominay.
 
WeePat said:
I’ve been saying he should do this. Call their bluff. Ownership view him as a £50m asset. They won’t let him walk out of the door for free. They'll be forced to give him a new contract, which is basically what he’s wanted all along. The leverage is entirely on Gallagher’s side.

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He called their bluff. Good on him.

 
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