So no progress whatsoever?
Confirmed: Moyes sacked.
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Won't be able to stop refreshing this page in work today.
No, the inconsiderate bastards decided to sleep during the night, club has gone to the dogs under Moyes...
I know the feeling.
No, I keep getting the same question each time I post.Maybe it was part 1 of a larger plan? Like I said, I was thinking from his point of view. I'm in the get rid camp myself. Merely pointing out that (1) He will feel betrayed; (2) The club fecked up too in selecting and the decision to let him go is not an easy one and (3) Lets not put ourselves on a high horse that we're better than the other clubs in that we give our managers time and patience.
Crappy, I don't disagree with most of the stuff you say. But you can't deny that the talk of ethos is a bit empty if you can't really stick by it. And that's what some people like Gary Neville are referring to. We are no better than other clubs. I've also found this moral high ground that United fans have about having stability a bit facetious.
Let me put it this way. I bet he would have been sacked even if we had some swashbulking football but ended up eighth.
The argument stems from the fact that he never got a second year to show that he can instill these things if given time and patience. Given his background, it was quite clear from day 1 that the club knew that he'll need assistance to make the step up. Surely, the club did not expect an Everton manager with no history of winning things to suddenly just start delivering. So we entered agreement knowing that things may go sour and yet we gave him a six year contract implying that we'll afford him that chance to make the step up.
Obviously the process of learning these things takes longer than a year.
See points above.
I'll repeat myself. I'm all for Moyes' sacking. Just don't buy the whole flip-flopping on the ethos bit.
So what exactly must Moyes so that his sack is justified according to his standards? Should he lead us to relegation zone? Should he get us relegated?
The club gave him time. He was allowed to steer the ship even though he was leading us straight to an iceberg. The results are there to be seen. The champions ended up at 7th place with no chance of being in the CL next season. A substantial number of players are disillusioned and we have already lost the captain on a free transfer. At other clubs he would have been sacked in December.
It's going to happen the fact that the club has been silent over the entire day justifies the rumours. Too cruel to Moyes - they need to confirm the sacking soon. They can still haggle over the severance after the fact.
No really...
All the talk of ethos was garbage to begin with. We have been lucky that we have had Fergie for 20 years + to avoid looking for managers like every other top club. It was clear from the start that at best the new manager would get 2 seasons to get into gear and start competing for trophies. Sticking by an incompetent manager just for the sake of tradition would be stupid.
And United fans have actually acted better than most. Liverpool fans turned on Woy much quicker and even sang against him at the ground. Spanish fans would have been waving white hankies by now. Even one feeble protest that took place against Moyes was turned into a show of support by match going fans.
It really shows the level of incompetence Moyes has shown that majority of fans, who were prepared to give the manager time, have changed their mind.
To me his biggest error was bringing in his own backroom team. Steve Round, the other guy and Phil Neville are just plain wrong and not up to the task. I wouldn't listen to that lot, so never mind world class internationals paying the slightest bit of attention. Even if he had given Muelenstein, Phelan & co a few months and then changed things.
I agree. Now people will start understand why I am totally against keeping 'veterans' out of respect. Players are employees who are being paid to play quality football on a regular basis. If they cant do the job on a regular basis then they should leave irrespective if he's John Bloggs or Rio Ferdinand.
Arrigo Sacchi used to call it a cycle. Once the cycle is finished, then players should be replaced irrespective on how good they are. The reason being that they become complacent and their power would have reached a level that goes beyond that of a player. FFS we have retained nearly all the 99 team in one capacity or another. I mean what experience does Nicky Butt has to justify his role as a coach?
I think United will make an announcement about the sacking before mid-day. I think they spent Monday getting the interim management set up with the intention to break the news on Tuesday. Either way, United will need to make announcement to the stock market to stop all the rumours, and it will need to be done very quickly.
I can imagine his excuses already "I wasn't given enough time, I wasn't allowed to bring my own players in, I was promised 6 seasons".
Fact of the matter is, time is earned, not given. He was given all the time in the world and if he were getting things right his job wouldn't have even been considered. He started to second guess himself instead of having a vision and sticking to it, in the end, he didn't even know what his vision was for the club apart from "reshaping it from top to bottom" which is not something he was brought in to do.
So Mr Moyes, you had enough time, you didn't use it efficiently and you made the wrong decisions. And if he really thought he would be afforded 6 seasons of management playing the way we have been he is sorely misguided. He would have sacked himself if he was on the board of United.
11 months is more than time enough to display your capabilities in a job. If you or I got a new job tomorrow and sucked at it for merely 11 days, we'd be fired.
Exactly, I honestly think a few of the people here would have done a better job than he has managed.
Yes, really. There should be clauses in place in his contract (allegedly there are underperformance clauses allowing lesser payouts). Even if Moyes' lawyers disagree they can still haggle after the firing to be settled by way of a settlement agreement.
Moyes in at 5am to the training ground apparently. Packing up?
A second season. If he is still showing no signs of improving results, then it would have been a mutually acceptable scenario.
All I was saying.
Agreed 100% with the rest of it. The man just lacked the personality to deal with it.
IMO it all comes down to the third point. We pretended to be something that we cannot be and I think it has cost us the CL spot. Had we got a better equipped manager in place in January we'd have had a good chance to finish 4th seeing as Liverpool who weren't that far ahead are winning the league right now.
We cannot afford to let him carry on for the second season, especially as in all likelihood he was going to make wholesale changes that would have been hard to rectify if they'd gone wrong (and given his record it'd happen more likely than not).
I should say so, that and to avoid the horror show that would of been him driving through the press this morning.
Will there be cameras following him around on his last day then?
If the clauses for non-CL qualification is iron-clad, there wouldn't even need to be any discussion, he should have been left to rot at Goodison.
What should he do to get him sacked now or should we say that we should give him a second season irrespective on what he does in his first season (get 7th place, out of the CL, badmouthing SAF etc)?
Name me one manager who would survive all this after leading the champions to 7th place
I didn't want Moyes but I was more than willing to give him a chance. I thought he would have had us comfortably top four this season and could never have anticipated the absolute shambles of a season that we have had.
The fact that he has shown no signs of improvement means it's definitely time for him to go. It would be a detriment to the club to let him go into the summer with the alleged transfer kitty that we have.
The fact that he has shown no signs of improvement means it's definitely time for him to go. It would be a detriment to the club to let him go into the summer with the alleged transfer kitty that we have.
Just like Jamie Carragher said on MNF, with Rodgers last year Liverpool were quite poor, but at least towards the end of the season his team showed great promise and the signs were there that things were on the up. That has not happened at United. No one can argue that Moyes is up to the job.
They probably want some clips for the Season Review DVD.
Deep down, even Moyes knows he should be sacked.
Oh god... the first time in 20 years or so I won't be buying it.
This has been the biggest mess up here, not Moyes himself, but the inaction of the board to correct their mistake and save the season.
There is no question another manager would of done better than Moyes in the second half of the season, instead they stood by and watched while our season collapsed.
With the signing of Mata the Bog brush and the loss of champions league football this season, Moyes had cost the club over £100 million and delivered our worst season in the past 25 years.
We can't afford it. I was stating a scenario where Moyes himself would have quit.
Eh? I just gave you a scenario where it would have been a mutual separation.
Neville was right to voice his disapproval at they way the club has handled things - to be honest, since SAF has retired, we've been a disaster zone. It goes to show how important SAF and Gill were as a pair.
That said, no plausible reason could be offered as to why Moyes should keep his job, other than a dated sense of romantic loyalty.
The club has made the right decision - but for the love of God, just put Moyes out of his misery today!
That said, no plausible reason could be offered as to why Moyes should keep his job, other than a dated sense of romantic loyalty.
The club has made the right decision - but for the love of God, just put Moyes out of his misery today!
Why only 2 seasons then? This coming season is preceded by a world cup so many of the players we will be targeting won't be getting a proper pre-season. Not to mention that he has talked about bringing a lot of players into the squad at the same time. So getting them to settle is also a big challenge in one season.
The point I am trying to make is there will always be excuses/mitigating circumstances which can be used to provide reasons to stop this from happening. Moyes has had enough time as far as I am concerned. He has shown zero signs of where we are headed and that is the biggest worry for me. What is Moyes' plan even if we get all the players we are targeting? Nothing has been clear for almost a season now and I don't expect magical answers to these questions over the next season. He just had to go after that.
Even after 22 games, following our 3-1 defeat to Chelsea, we were only 6 points off Liverpool, who were in 4th at the time
This season is an example when sticking by your manager had the polar opposite effect to what is supposed to happen.
Come on United. Getting a bit anxious here. Would like BBC to get in on this.
Seasons Review DVD?
I'm trying to struggle hard to find what good things they're going to put in there, we have very little amount of shots on goals, never mind goals.
I'm trying to struggle hard to find what good things they're going to put in there, we have very little amount of shots on goals, never mind goals.
Interesting, will one find that in the comedy section of stores nationwide I wonder?
My point is that like in every job in the world there is a minimum expectancy. Moyes has failed in that.
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