Confirmed: Moyes sacked.

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fishfingers15 said:
I don't know who killed your cat today, but nobody's asking you to give a horse shit about anything. The post was in direct reply to Sky1981 saying Moyes stagnated Everton for a decade. His time here is a failure, but there's no need to knock him on what he did at Everton.
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I don't get why we are talking about Moyes at Everton on a Manchester United forum, why do people care how good or bad he was at Everton unless they are trying to justify his time at United... He was shite, let it go.

Moyes seems to have deeply effected some folk who trawl around here telling us he's not that bad really, he's a nice guy etc, so what. He did bad, he's gone, that whole sorry tale is thankfully over.
 
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bobbyf said:
Don't necessarily agree it would have been shit, depending on who we got. We needed a big name manager to deal with the players. They wouldn't respond to anything less, as Moyes' time has shown. Wouldn't have expected us to be out of the top 4.
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I think we had done well with a manager who would have adapted to the club, taken in advice and gained the respect of the players, ie not telling the press that not even SAF could do better than him with the squad available.

There's no point in denying that Brendan Rodgers have made a great job at Liverpool. He would had succeeded much better than Moyes, I would think, and had probably been given more time than 10 months even if we had missed top 4.
 
BorisontheRock said:
Of course he did.

The clause had to be there otherwise the LMA wouldn't let United only pay him off for a year. Moyes had to see it was getting worse and he must have hoped if he was off scouting and kept talking about next year, rebuilding he might get away with it, he'd written off this season by Christmas in my opinion, it was all about next year. Maybe United let him think about next season, but surely he'd realise as things were getting shiter he'd be for the chop, after all he'd but his cronies out spinning tales

What United manager does as much scouting as Moyes, sure Fergie took in the old player but usually at the end, did Moyes trust no one, next we'll hear his wife washed the kits and daughter sowed on the badges... Pity he didn't focus on management.
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Agree with the bold part, i was thinking the same. Once he couldn't get a grip on these players or get them to respond to him i think he wrote the season off and was just trying to buy time to scrape through to the summer and try to ship out as many as he could get away with.

The 'rebuild' talk definitely picked up pace after Xmas no doubt aided by a few journo/pundit mates, i guess we will never know now but i wonder how many players he would have either tried offload or who wanted to leave because of him. Its possible had he stayed we could have seen 10-12 players leaving this summer.
 
stevoc said:
Agree with the bold part, i was thinking the same. Once he couldn't get a grip on these players or get them to respond to him i think he wrote the season off and was just trying to buy time to scrape through to the summer and try to ship out as many as he could get away with.

The 'rebuild' talk definitely picked up pace after Xmas no doubt aided by a few journo/pundit mates, i guess we will never know now but i wonder how many players he would have either tried offload or who wanted to leave because of him. Its possible had he stayed we could have seen 10-12 players leaving this summer.
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The constant 'rebuild' comments from Moyes went a long way to contributing to his sacking IMO. instead of getting on with things and working well with the players he had(good players at that), he spread this awful mentality throughout the squad like a virus, that none of them were good enough and it was fine that they achieve nothing. That's not a mentality that any players at this club should be allowed to have, rather we're in a transitional season or not. Can you imagine Jose or Van Gaal coming in and coming out with that attitude? it was madness.
 
TheLoveless said:
I think we had done well with a manager who would have adapted to the club, taken in advice and gained the respect of the players, ie not telling the press that not even SAF could do better than him with the squad available.

There's no point in denying that Brendan Rodgers have made a great job at Liverpool. He would had succeeded much better than Moyes, I would think, and had probably been given more time than 10 months even if we had missed top 4.
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Moyes' attitude and demeanour were so negative to be given more time, so yes, I agree any other manager who showed a bit of positivity and confidence might have been given more time
 
Shark22 said:
The constant 'rebuild' comments from Moyes went a long way to contributing to his sacking IMO. instead of getting on with things and working well with the players he had(good players at that), he spread this awful mentality throughout the squad like a virus, that none of them were good enough and it was fine that they achieve nothing. That's not a mentality that any players at this club should be allowed to have, rather we're in a transitional season or not. Can you imagine Jose or Van Gaal coming in and coming out with that attitude? it was madness.
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It was definitely an ill advised stance to have taken with a new group of players. Again this ties into the theory that he realized he wasn't a good fit for this group of players and probably wasn't going to win them over.

So he tried to paint a picture of the players being the problem for the bad results instead if himself.
 
Shark22 said:
The constant 'rebuild' comments from Moyes went a long way to contributing to his sacking IMO. instead of getting on with things and working well with the players he had(good players at that), he spread this awful mentality throughout the squad like a virus, that none of them were good enough and it was fine that they achieve nothing. That's not a mentality that any players at this club should be allowed to have, rather we're in a transitional season or not. Can you imagine Jose or Van Gaal coming in and coming out with that attitude? it was madness.
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Yes. The rebuild comments were very strange. Rebuilding was in need with the way he took on the job so IMO he took on the job in the wrong way.
What players were really too old to win the PL this year? Rio? Giggs? Anyone else? The likes of Carrick, Evra and Vidic should definitely not be too old to deliver. To say the squaid was not good enough is one thing but Moyes could never go with that since the same squad - Scholes won the title last year. He had to go with age to make himself time to establish his new ways of doing things. It's been said quite a lot here but the first error was replacing the backroom staff, de facto even Meulesteen since he was offer a job that would be considered a degradation.
 
stevoc said:
It was definitely an ill advised stance to have taken with a new group of players. Again this ties into the theory that he realized he wasn't a good fit for this group of players and probably wasn't going to win them over.

So he tried to paint a picture of the players being the problem for the bad results instead if himself.
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Yes and your previous point in the earlier discussion we had, that he could not heed advice, implies that he would never be able to work them over to his cause. If you don't want to adapt you need to be mch better than the second best, which in this situation would be SAF, the father figure of the entire squad, even the oldest ones. It's difficult to run everyone over and have them joinr your cause if you cannot show you are right. And going public with that they are not better than their league position shows is not going to make it easier :)
 
TheLoveless said:
I think we had done well with a manager who would have adapted to the club, taken in advice and gained the respect of the players, ie not telling the press that not even SAF could do better than him with the squad available.

There's no point in denying that Brendan Rodgers have made a great job at Liverpool. He would had succeeded much better than Moyes, I would think, and had probably been given more time than 10 months even if we had missed top 4.
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You're right. One of Moyes' biggest mistakes was thinking the club had to adapt to him when it was the other way round. He hadn't done anything previously to warrant that. He said it about the infamous banner on the Stretford End, he had to earn his position cos of the circumstances of his appointment. The same applies to his management of the team. If he hadn't ignored that and used his head he would probably have done better.

I'm not sure if Rodgers would have been successful cos he's never won anything either. Possibly. He did have something more about him than Moyes, his footballing philosophy etc. But in the end it would depend on if the players would buy into and react positively to it. If they could see that there were signs he was improving the team he would last longer than 10 months. We'll probably never know.

And like many big name managers, a lot of SAF's success has come from dealing with pressure, the mental side, mind games, not sure how Rodgers would do with that. He's still learning that really only this season. There's also the matter of the where his team were when he took over and ours. A different job entirely.

TheLoveless said:
Yes. The rebuild comments were very strange. Rebuilding was in need with the way he took on the job so IMO he took on the job in the wrong way.
What players were really too old to win the PL this year? Rio? Giggs? Anyone else? The likes of Carrick, Evra and Vidic should definitely not be too old to deliver. To say the squaid was not good enough is one thing but Moyes could never go with that since the same squad - Scholes won the title last year. He had to go with age to make himself time to establish his new ways of doing things. It's been said quite a lot here but the first error was replacing the backroom staff, de facto even Meulesteen since he was offer a job that would be considered a degradation.
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I've been making this point for a while now. Other clubs have players older than ours. Distin has played 35 games this season and he's 36. Terry has been one of the best CBs. They have just been managed a lot better by their managers. And how can people blame the players for this poor season when their own manager speaks about them like that?
 
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bobbyf said:
You're right. One of Moyes' biggest mistakes was thinking the club had to adapt to him when it was the other way round. He hadn't done anything previously to warrant that. He said it about the infamous banner on the Stretford End, he had to earn his position cos of the circumstances of his appointment. The same applies to his management of the team. If he hadn't ignored that and used his head he would probably have done better.

I'm not sure if Rodgers would have been successful cos he's never won anything either. Possibly. He did have something more about him than Moyes, his footballing philosophy etc. But in the end it would depend on if the players would buy into and react positively to it. If they could see that there were signs he was improving the team he would last longer than 10 months. We'll probably never know.

And like many big name managers, a lot of SAF's success has come from dealing with pressure, the mental side, mind games, not sure how Rodgers would do with that. He's still learning that really only this season. There's also the matter of the where his team were when he took over and ours. A different job entirely.
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Yes. I think this stance that United always gives their managers time caused a dellusion of some sort, that almost whatever happened he would be given several years. During that time he should be able to transform the club into something he thought he could work with. Though I agree with other posters, like Stevoc, that the board and maybe SAF should be criticized for this I blame Moyes the most for doing this anyway. There was no need and he shouldn't have done it even with the permission of that board.

Regarding Rodgers, I think his achievement with Swansea was held as a big success, but nevertheless I think you can see all the players are 100% percent behind him. They trust him and he treats them well. This together with an acceptable level of football knowledge goes a long way, especially if you keep the other aspects of the club, like the backfroom staff, stable over a period of time. Rodgers is IMO a big contributor to Suarez league form. Agree completely that he is unproven with mindgames. Lets see how Rodgers succeeds keeping his squad on track in these last few games given the loss on sunday. He also hasn't been in big need to rotate the squad due to European games, which has made his life easier. Also his key players have remained intact.
 
Howard Nurse has confirmed that Moyes is still sacked.
 
TheLoveless said:
Regarding Rodgers, I think his achievement with Swansea was held as a big success, but nevertheless I think you can see all the players are 100% percent behind him. They trust him and he treats them well. This together with an acceptable level of football knowledge goes a long way, especially if you keep the other aspects of the club, like the backfroom staff, stable over a period of time. Rodgers is IMO a big contributor to Suarez league form. Agree completely that he is unproven with mindgames. Lets see how Rodgers succeeds keeping his squad on track in these last few games given the loss on sunday. He also hasn't been in big need to rotate the squad due to European games, which has made his life easier. Also his key players have remained intact.
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But that job is totally different to our club. It was very hard for someone who was not a proven winner to come in to OT and change things. Anyone else needed to be pretty special to make it work, maybe more than Rodgers.

At Liverpool they needed to try something different cos they needed progress and a better league position after years of failure and falling short, so they would more receptive to change. If you were a player at our club after winning the league last season, wouldn't you question the need for big changes? They would most likely welcome new players to strengthen the team but calling for 'rebuilding' would take some convincing. It would need a big personality to enforce these changes and make them work.
 
Is it maybe time to retire this thread now it's been a week? I think it is firmly established that he was a disaster and the apologists have been vanquished. Let's try to pretend it never happened, except as a salutary tale next time we are looking for a manager (in other words, no to Giggsy, much as we love him).
 
MoskvaRed said:
Is it maybe time to retire this thread now it's been a week? I think it is firmly established that he was a disaster and the apologists have been vanquished. Let's try to pretend it never happened, except as a salutary tale next time we are looking for a manager (in other words, no to Giggsy, much as we love him).
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I reckon we'll be discussing what happened this season for a long time still.

But it might be best to do it in threads with a different twist. He fecked up, he was sacked. To me the rationale behind giving him the job in the first place is well worth debating. Arguing over exactly how shite he was, however, seems a bit pointless now that he's gone.
 
Some pages back, I posted a quote from Roy Keane. Apparently, the quote was shortened by a journalist. This is the full quote:

"Whatever is going on at certain clubs is really none of my business,” Keane said.

“I've been a manager before, I look at David Moyes and I don't like what happened to him.

“But regarding other issues, it is none of my business and it doesn't keep me awake at night.”
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Mel_F said:
Jonathan Northcroft has just written a long article about the truth behind Moyes' sacking. Clearly telling Moyes' side of the story but an interesting read nonetheless.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/sport/football/Premiership/article1404236.ece

Football's ugliest sacking: the truth
The Manchester United board continued to re-assure their embattled manager right up until the day the axe fell
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The most ridiculous part of the whole article, and the entire thing is a joke, is that Moyes expected Woodward to come talk to him and tell him results had to improve before he was sacked. If he didn't know that results had to improve, he shouldn't have the job in the first place. To expect to be told that finishing 7th at Manchester United isn't good enough is stupid.
 
TheLoveless said:
Yes and your previous point in the earlier discussion we had, that he could not heed advice, implies that he would never be able to work them over to his cause. If you don't want to adapt you need to be mch better than the second best, which in this situation would be SAF, the father figure of the entire squad, even the oldest ones. It's difficult to run everyone over and have them joinr your cause if you cannot show you are right. And going public with that they are not better than their league position shows is not going to make it easier :)
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Yeah seems his inability to adapt and his inwillingness to take on advice were probably the two biggest factors that lead to his undoing.

I would bet good money if he could go back a year in time he would probably approach the job very differently than he did. But oh well his loss i guess.
 
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stevoc said:
Yeah seems his inability to adapt and his inwillingness to take on advice were probably the two biggest factors that lead to his undoing.

I would bet good money if he could back a year in time he would probably approach the job very differently than he did. But oh well his loss i guess.
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He probably would try to do things differently but I'm not sure it would make much difference. He seems to be a manager whose methods have a ceiling (like Pulis and Allardyce). He'll never get you relegated and you might overachieve slightly but you will never have a real breakthrough or win anything.
 
bobbyf said:
But that job is totally different to our club. It was very hard for someone who was not a proven winner to come in to OT and change things. Anyone else needed to be pretty special to make it work, maybe more than Rodgers.

At Liverpool they needed to try something different cos they needed progress and a better league position after years of failure and falling short, so they would more receptive to change. If you were a player at our club after winning the league last season, wouldn't you question the need for big changes? They would most likely welcome new players to strengthen the team but calling for 'rebuilding' would take some convincing. It would need a big personality to enforce these changes and make them work.
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Good points. Maybe I would question big changes but I am not sure Rodgers would have in inflicted big changes had he come here.

I would like to stress though that I don't argue that Rodgers would be our nr. 1 guy here, just that I think he would have made a far lesser mess than Moyes did.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah seems his inability to adapt and his inwillingness to take on advice were probably the two biggest factors that lead to his undoing.

I would bet good money if he could go back a year in time he would probably approach the job very differently than he did. But oh well his loss i guess.
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I take your bet!

I wager that if Moyes could go back in time he would be too stubborn and unrelenting to do things in a different way than he did :D
 
Have to agree Rodgers has been impressive, you'd cringe in the media interviews but he knows attacking football, and seems to have his team squeezing every ounce of talent (so Aspas must be worse than pub standard!!).

You could see his philosophy last year even though Liverpool hit 7th. I don't think anyone thought he'd be first right now, and he's probably overachieved, but you have to give the guy credit. Long term you wonder if he's going to be as myopic as wenger on his teams deficiencies, got to think teams will work Liverpool out soon and stop gifting space behind the defense, we'll see the true top class credentials of Rodgers then.

Rivalries aside, Liverpool have played good stuff this year, especially this Callander year. Still hope they slip up mind.
 
TheLoveless said:
I take your bet!

I wager that if Moyes could go back in time he would be too stubborn and unrelenting to do things in a different way than he did :D
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I wonder if he could turn back time whether he would take the United job at all. He'd definitely be deleting those clauses in his contract for sure!!
 
Sir Matt said:
The most ridiculous part of the whole article, and the entire thing is a joke, is that Moyes expected Woodward to come talk to him and tell him results had to improve before he was sacked. If he didn't know that results had to improve, he shouldn't have the job in the first place. To expect to be told that finishing 7th at Manchester United isn't good enough is stupid.
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Yes. And this about United using the no top-4 clause is also twisted. Firstly, if the goal was top 4 then sacking Moyes before it was mathematically a fail would have been not giving him a chance to reach it.

Secondly, clauses are there for a reason. Ofc they should use the clause if it was there
 
BorisontheRock said:
I wonder if he could turn back time whether he would take the United job at all. He'd definitely be deleting those clauses in his contract for sure!!
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Hmm. Maybe he would take it again just so that he go into all the "rebuilding things and making things the way we want them to be and making less of the bad and more of the good with this squad that not even SAF could do better with, though he won the league with them last year"?
 
Since Moyes' sacking:

1. We win 4-0
2. Gerrard slips and Liverpool are no longer favourites for the title
3. Tiki-taka RIP

Could the last week have gone any better?
 
Cal? said:
Since Moyes' sacking:

1. We win 4-0
2. Gerrard slips and Liverpool are no longer favourites for the title
3. Tiki-taka RIP

Could the last week have gone any better?
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Chelsea lose tomorrow hopefully
 
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