Confirmed: Moyes sacked.
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As glad as I am that Moyes has been sacked, can't see much wrong with him telling players who are unhappy with their playing time he would be prepared to let them go in the summer, if they wanted to. It's part and parcel of football and has happened numerous times with United and Fergie was a master at keeping people happy.
Oh come on players complaining about playing time is something every club ever in history has to deal with.
So much shit being written now. Just leave the poor man alone he has had his name dragged through the mud.
Half the reason I said from the outset that he wasn't good enough was that he doesn't have the ego and attitude to deal with the attitudes in the dressing room. The players should be ashamed of themselves just as much as Moyes should be on his way.
Half the reason I said from the outset that he wasn't good enough was that he doesn't have the ego and attitude to deal with the attitudes in the dressing room. The players should be ashamed of themselves just as much as Moyes should be on his way.
When did I say that wasn't the case?
I am talking about the way it was handled by Moyes.
This is not it weaste, there's no long term pot with Moyes. Even a bloody fool can see that. Does Everton have any cup to show for giving him 10 years? "ZERO"
Everton's cabinet probably:
4th place finish
...cricket...
Rio being one of, if not the finest, defenders the team has ever had? Why would he be the choice to go?
Why did he not play these players more? I mean, we are only guessing but if these two players are Hernandez and Kagawa then they are good enough to be kept content. Instead Moyes looked after RVP and Rooney and gave them games when they weren't even fit. To tell players like Hernandez and Shinji they can go is a bit silly when they are good enough to make a difference. Maybe he didn't fancy them as players, which only further goes to show weakness in his managerial ability.
That matches with a part in the Mail article:
So they're midfielders, and one is still here. Safe to say one's Ando. Depending on whether a winger can be included as a "midfielder", could be anyone from Young to...well, Young. Nani?
Speaking of that Mail report, this part was interesting:
Young player? Many adjectives can be used to describe Rio, young is no longer one of them.
This is going to sound utterly stupid but here goes:
I'm amazed that Moyes (apparently) didn't have it within himself to rise to the occasion. We all know his pre-United record (no wins vs big clubs etc etc) and yet it seems he thought that doing things the same way as always would suffice...
It's one thing having limited talent but quite another being so absorbed in your methods that you cannot improve; surely he can't be so unimaginative that he thought tried & tested methods (at Everton, that is), strong work ethic & players' fitness alone would help Manchester United succeed? Just about every rival fan told us that Moyes would fail - and they were right - but, somehow, I'm surprised that he contributed to his own failure; did he not realise that SAF's success wasn't just down to hard work but also to daring, vision and a trust in flair? Further, how could he fail to keep willing workers like Hernandez & Welbeck reasonably happy?
I'm amazed that Moyes (apparently) didn't have it within himself to rise to the occasion. We all know his pre-United record (no wins vs big clubs etc etc) and yet it seems he thought that doing things the same way as always would suffice...
It's one thing having limited talent but quite another being so absorbed in your methods that you cannot improve; surely he can't be so unimaginative that he thought tried & tested methods (at Everton, that is), strong work ethic & players' fitness alone would help Manchester United succeed? Just about every rival fan told us that Moyes would fail - and they were right - but, somehow, I'm surprised that he contributed to his own failure; did he not realise that SAF's success wasn't just down to hard work but also to daring, vision and a trust in flair? Further, how could he fail to keep willing workers like Hernandez & Welbeck reasonably happy?
He doesn't need to
Kinda like asking for Genghis Khan to execute someone just to show he's fearsome? ROAR!
I think the Mail article is talking about Anderson and Zaha.
It's baffling, some of the mistakes he made during his tenor were unforgivable and down right bizarre. His continued use of Valencia and Young for the first half of the season, for example, made literally no sense. I would have thought he could have done better myself, but perhaps it is a more difficult job than we could have ever imagined? Ferguson made it look easy.
One things for sure, his successor has a lot to think him for. We still have a good squad (plus Mata) and most people would be happy with top four and attacking football.
Moyes has set them up big time.
Moyes has set them up big time.
We were also pretty abject in plenty of matches that Valencia and Young did not start in.
No doubt, but the two were fixtures in the side at one stage, even though everyone and their dog, bar Moyes, could see they offered literally nothing.
My work is done here tonight, on the love connection. Have fun you crazy kids!
Moyes very well may have turned out to be a decent manager in the long run, but, it was going to require him tearing down the house and starting fresh. Because instead of building on what was already here, it quickly became apparent that he was having a tough go trying to evolve from his style at Everton.
Yes he should have got rid of one or two, Rio as you say was obvious but also another player less obvious. It would have let the players know right away he was the boss now.
Instead he insisted on keeping them all and pissing about wasting time which lead to not strengthening the team.
It appears he mismanaged the whole situation right from the get go. Shame for him really.
Steve: I'm conflicted on this. One one hand Moyes thought it made sense to use the same training methods at United as he used at Everton, and given that he'd been doing that for so long I can see his reasoning.
On the other hand-dismissing Fergie's advice about keeping backroom staff, whom Moyes could have used to bounce ideas off of regarding training, seems like a really critical mistake. I suspect Fergie was concerned about the transferability of some of Moyes's methods-and given his initial struggles at United, may explain Fergie's suggestion. That Moyes disregarded this advice seems hard to believe.
Yeah, mate. I notice that the praise SAF gave DM (once he was announced as United manager) was like 'Decent man'; 'integrity'; 'good manager' etc etc - at no point did SAF claim Moyes was a great or potentially great boss. Sir Alex trusted to luck, the hope that Moyes would come (very) good.
Like any other manager he probably wanted to do things his own way.
I can definitely appreciate that. And I can imagine his despair when he realized his methods weren't working. For some reason the image of players snickering behind his back evinces sympathy from me. Must have been pretty unsettling.
I wanted him out starting in February-so I'm glad he's gone. As I said earlier-among elite performers in any business you either are the top dog or you get eaten. Seems like Moyes just wasn't the right guy.
Well from various reports and stories about his character, i think we can assume he is pretty stubborn and believes that his methods are right, he supposedly also doesn't take advice or suggestions well.
If the players resisted his training methods/tactics form the start it might have made him all the more stubborn and determined to force his ideology on the players so as not to appear weak, perhaps he felt he needed to 'break' them military style into his way of thinking/playing.
Instead of changing tact and trying to adapt to the players when his methods were not working & results were going bad, he may have actually went further back into the safety net of tried and trusted everton methods which exasperated the situation even further, might explain the drastic drop in form/results since the turn of the year.
Isn't that all most people wanted from Moyes this season?
It'll be interesting to see if a new manager does basically the same as Moyes. I doubt it would happen and it's not nice to think about, but you never know.
Craig Burley (ESPN FC) was also talking shit about SAF leaving behind a bad side that wasn't capable of winning the league and that the club didn't give Moyes time and failed in the transfer market. Marcotti rebutted him.
There are some right muppets out there.
There are some right muppets out there.
Burley has pretty much always been on the 'give Moyes time and let him rebuild' camp.
I've noticed Burley talks a lot of shit too. Comes off as a former player that has a high opinion of himself.
I find myself agreeing with him half the time. Or either completely disagreeing with him the other half. He's hit and miss as a pundit for me. Anyway, as someone said - he's always been part of the "give Moyes time" camp. Probably a Scottish thing too.
Im not sure that getting rid of a player or too would have helped, he ripped down the coaching staff and say the consequence, who sou he have replaced rio with, realistically distant or jagielka which would have destabilised Moyes just as much. I think he needed to keep the coaching staff, maybe bring one of his own and adage the staff, letting the coaches coach. The established coaching staff would keep the backbiting to a minimum and act as a barrier between moyes and the players, giving him time to grow to the position and earn respect. instead he encouraged the players to band together and pull against the gaffer. Hindsight is a great thing though.
Totally agree though he spent all his time and energy pissing about internally and forgot to strengthen.. I suspect he realised he didn't have the squad so rather than build bridges he decided he'd burn them, get rid and build a new squad, he probably decided this in Aug/September....
Totally mismanaged from day one... we should have known when he said he was speechless....
He should have sold a Rooney which would have sent a message to the squad that they could be next. And not offer Rio a contract.
Yeap. A top four finish would have been fine.
I don't know how to feel about the players rebelling against him. On one hand I emphathize with Moyes for the way he was treated on the other, its kind of understandable. I mean, the public saw for themselves how Moyes approached the job with interviews peppered with words like "try" or "make it hard for them." He just didn't seem to have the right approach from the get go.
Pretty much every year SAF sold/retired a few and bought a few, i don't even count Fellaini to be honest so the squad wasn't refreshed as it should have been.
He definitely should have kept the coaching staff, but moving a few players on right away would have shown he was the boss now, look at Jose at chelsea came in made it clear their best player was not in his plans right away he got on top of a squad notorious for undermining managers and look at them now.
Moyes should have done the same and stamped his authority from day one, what he did instead made him look indecisive which to be fair he is, riddled with it it seems.
Sometimes he can be entertaining and have good points, but I've disagreed with most of what he's said about United all season.
Reading that book is so amateurish. Not to mention, it's a business management book.
In all honesty, what was he thinking?
Can you imagine the multi-trophy winning players on that plane seeing their manager read a book designed for 1st year university students?
If he was intent on reading it, he should have read it privately.
That Mail article pretty much says that no-one liked him. I think, in an attempt to stamp his authority, he was just too aggressive. He probably put up a psychological wall because, innately, he didn't feel up to the job, so went too far the other way on the meek-dick spectrum.
In all honesty, what was he thinking?
Can you imagine the multi-trophy winning players on that plane seeing their manager read a book designed for 1st year university students?
If he was intent on reading it, he should have read it privately.
That Mail article pretty much says that no-one liked him. I think, in an attempt to stamp his authority, he was just too aggressive. He probably put up a psychological wall because, innately, he didn't feel up to the job, so went too far the other way on the meek-dick spectrum.
. He was obviously so desperate to succeed.That bit was shocking tbh
I've read it, it's not even for first years it's just a light read for managers. His mistake was that anyone seeing the title would only draw one conclusion. The book is called Good to Great btw, for others reading this. Not hard to see what the players would have thought.
Well if he really believed Vidic and Rio should pick up tips from the way Jagielka plays, he should himself have been open enough to look at what folks like Rodgers and Martinez are doing with their teams.
On a serious note, he should have sat down and realized that he needs to go up at least 2 to 3 levels to convert this once in a lifetime opportunity into success. He should have learned how United reached the top and maintained their position all these years from the existing coaches and players. Then after a point of time he should have identified things that could be improved and then gradually done that over a period of time.
The only reason I feel sorry for him is because he is going out with this stamp on him of being prehistoric and only banking on good work ethic and fitness to make it difficult for the opponent team to win whereas he was much more than that at Everton.
On a serious note, he should have sat down and realized that he needs to go up at least 2 to 3 levels to convert this once in a lifetime opportunity into success. He should have learned how United reached the top and maintained their position all these years from the existing coaches and players. Then after a point of time he should have identified things that could be improved and then gradually done that over a period of time.
The only reason I feel sorry for him is because he is going out with this stamp on him of being prehistoric and only banking on good work ethic and fitness to make it difficult for the opponent team to win whereas he was much more than that at Everton.
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