Still can't get the image out of my head of Moyes trying to coach Rio by using Jagielka as an example
Was it only Rio? Can you imagine Vidic's reaction? Suicidal move by Moyes to show it to Vidic.
Confirmed: Moyes sacked.
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Was it only Rio? Can you imagine Vidic's reaction? Suicidal move by Moyes to show it to Vidic.
What else are you going to do on a flight? Flights are one of the best times to get reading done.
Ducker tends to be reliable in fairness. Although I'm sure we'll hear plenty of Mickey Mouse stories regarding Moyes from here on in.
From reports, he was on the Moyes side along with the other Everton lot and Evra, surprisingly enough. What's clear is there were plenty of very unhappy players here over the season, so it really could've been any or all of them. We've been in chaos for a season, time to get some control back.
What reports are these?
I'd be on the side of the guy who gives me £300k a week, promises to make me captain and lets me play when and where I want regardless of fitness and form too...
I can imagine at that point Vidic was laughing at Rio and thinking "I'm off to Juve in the summer!!!"
I read that report too, but can't remember now which article it was or the author - there have been that many
I've pretty much read a library of news articles over the past couple of weeks, somewhere among them!
You could see it in their body language from early on that they weren't interested in playing for him. It's cowardly behaviour to stab your manager in the back, no matter how out of his depth he is.
Do you think these players could look him in the eye and shake his hand, saying that they honestly did all they could do to make this season a success?
He was never going to be Ferguson, if they're going to act like this with every manager that's not Ferguson then we may as well start a new team.
Still can't get the image out of my head of Moyes trying to coach Rio by using Jagielka as an example
I do not know why people are making a big deal out of this. Should Moyes pull up youtube videos of Vidic and Ferdinand and say "do what you did here" over and over again? I think it is fair to use another player as an example of what you want from defenders. I think players look worse off if the rumors are true since professionals should be able to learn from anyone.
Right then, let's try split the squad into two (actually three!) camps and see where we get...
Pro-Moyes:
De Gea
Lindegaard
Büttner
Evra
Evans
Valencia
Fellaini
Young
Rooney
Anti-Moyes:
Ferdinand
Vidic
Carrick
Cleverley
Anderson
Giggs
Kagawa
Hernandez
van Persie
Welbeck
Middling:
Smalling
Jones
Rafael
Nani
Mata
Januzaj
Pro-Moyes:
De Gea
Lindegaard
Büttner
Evra
Evans
Valencia
Fellaini
Young
Rooney
Anti-Moyes:
Ferdinand
Vidic
Carrick
Cleverley
Anderson
Giggs
Kagawa
Hernandez
van Persie
Welbeck
Middling:
Smalling
Jones
Rafael
Nani
Mata
Januzaj
Yeah. Agree. But kind of feel that they should have stayed united. They should know that it's Moyes who is at fault. Why turn it up against another player in the team?
Is this based on anything? Because I have got absolutely no idea how you could come up with that list.
Also, how is Evra in the pro-Moyes list? Wasn't Evra one of the first players Moyes alienated?
Fixed. Oh I just added in Zaha, a player I've forgotten we even have in our team.
Moyes out.What the hell? So a player turning up for training still reeking of booze is Moyes fault? Did he stay up pouring drinks into this player?
How about we blame the player? He's being paid a fortune and isn't even in a state to train.
Just seen Robbie Savage on the BBC website say our new manager needs to get rid of 10, 11 or 12 players to rebuild the squad. Never liked him really but this is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen him say
That article sounds a bit made up.
How on Earth you know that? From what we have read on the media, Vidic, Rio, Giggs, Welbeck, Kagawa and Hernandez were anti-Moyes while Rooney, Evra and Fellaini were pro-Moyes. No other player has been mentioned.
Of course there's no way of knowing for sure, but based on the reports we've heard/read in recent months, I bet that list isn't a million miles away at all.
Red Issue, a fanzine I would've been sceptical about in terms of their speculation in recent years, haven't been too far away with their anecdotes this season, wherever they're getting their information from.
It doesn't bother me one bit that our players ridiculed Moyes. Have you ever had an incompetent superior at work? Probably. Have you ever spoken about said superior behind his/her back to colleagues, sharing jokes about how idiotic whatever decision was? I bet you have. Having an idiotic boss issuing instructions you know are counterproductive is always going to result in insubordination, and rightly so.
Take some of the best footballers on the planet and tell them they're to follow the directions of a man whose incompetence has been evident since day 1. Of course Giggs thinks they'd have been better off without Moyes in Greece. That's not ridicule, that's an accurate observation. Telling Rio he should be learning from Phil Jagielka? Come on now. The players clearly knew very early on that the season was only going to end up one way with Moyes in charge. Everything from his training routines to his tactics, substitutions and even bloody press conferences reeked of incompetence.
The players were closest to the situation and thus knew the real extent of our predicament much earlier than the fans did. If the fans feel disillusioned or frustrated at the results, imagine how the players felt. Yes, the players need to respect the manager. But respect is earned. Moyes failed to earn their respect. If a Manchester United manager cannot earn the respect of Ryan Giggs, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and others, then he isn't fit to be United manager. I trust the judgement of our players far more than I do that of David Moyes. Because the players, unlike Moyes, have earned that trust.
Even if only half of what's come out the past 48 hours is true (and most of these reports fit well with what we knew from before), it only confirms how out of his depth Moyes was. I'm personally not going to put the players on a pedestal and expect them to be mindless robots, carrying out instructions they know will bring embarrassing results to both the club and their own reputations.
Take some of the best footballers on the planet and tell them they're to follow the directions of a man whose incompetence has been evident since day 1. Of course Giggs thinks they'd have been better off without Moyes in Greece. That's not ridicule, that's an accurate observation. Telling Rio he should be learning from Phil Jagielka? Come on now. The players clearly knew very early on that the season was only going to end up one way with Moyes in charge. Everything from his training routines to his tactics, substitutions and even bloody press conferences reeked of incompetence.
The players were closest to the situation and thus knew the real extent of our predicament much earlier than the fans did. If the fans feel disillusioned or frustrated at the results, imagine how the players felt. Yes, the players need to respect the manager. But respect is earned. Moyes failed to earn their respect. If a Manchester United manager cannot earn the respect of Ryan Giggs, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and others, then he isn't fit to be United manager. I trust the judgement of our players far more than I do that of David Moyes. Because the players, unlike Moyes, have earned that trust.
Even if only half of what's come out the past 48 hours is true (and most of these reports fit well with what we knew from before), it only confirms how out of his depth Moyes was. I'm personally not going to put the players on a pedestal and expect them to be mindless robots, carrying out instructions they know will bring embarrassing results to both the club and their own reputations.
DailyWhale said:
I thought you guys thought it was Rio that was leaking the lineups?
No. I think you misunderstand what I said. A player getting drunk isn't Moyes' fault. (Not dealing with it is, but that is not my point). The article says that there were cliques in the team. That means there were groups opposing each other. It wasn't a case of the whole team against just one player. That means there were a number of factors in the Moyes' reign which divided the players. Maybe distrust, miscommunication, preferential treatment,etc. This is precisely what I meant by Moyes' fault. The players should have stood up for each other and the whole team.
It just seems a really weird list. Apparently the sub keeper and rarely used back up left back are pro Moyes but the youngster who he introduced to the side, singled out for extreme praise and featured regularly for the first two thirds of the season is in the middle with his loyalties.
I think the players were (understandably) underwhelmed by the appointment & so the whole venture was doomed from the start.
The season has felt a bit like "Mike Bassett: England Manager" at times really. Just, you know, with a club instead of a national team.
Reading a book on a flight yes great idea, many people do it.
Reading a self help book titled ''Good to Great'' in front of your playerS after a defeat, terrible idea.
Really why are people having problems seeing how ill advised and naive that was if true.
A leader is always being watched by those he leads, signs of weakness like this undermine your authority.
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Terrific post. Seriously, if this shit is to be believed just imagine how would have Rio felt when Moyes explained to him how Jagielka does things, and how Carrick would have felt when he was forced to stay after the training to watch Osman's videos. How on Earth even if Moyes was semi ratarded thought that would work? How on Earth someone would have respected after that? And how on Earth someone is blaming players for not respecting him.
'We would have been better without him', a lot of people, fans of United said that. Giggs is a bigger fan than all of us, and he was affected from this episode more than all of us. Of course that he had to said it, and of course that it was true.
How do you come up with this nonsense? What makes you think Evans is pro-Moyes for example? Just because he is quiet and we haven't heard any rumours about him? And why is Valencia, a player who recently complained about playing time, pro-Moyes, and Hernandez who did the same exact thing, anti-Moyes?
Don't listen to them nahealai, I think it's a fine list.
Star signs.
Actually if you believe the rumours some of them were quite pleased when it was announced. Although most expected Mourinho there were fears that his style of management would lead some of the leading figures in the squad getting taken down a peg or two. Interestingly, I think in Daniel Taylor's piece, the same briefing against Van Gaal has already started with claims he's too confrontational and too strict.
I think the players were willing to give him a chance but when they saw Moyes up close they realised how bad it was gonna get.
But, it seems like you are almost praising them for what they did this season. What exactly did they accomplish that they deserve praise? They are 7th place, they have no CL Football next season, they have been embarrassed by every decent side they have gone up against, most of them are going to be viewed as "expendable" during the summer. Really nothing good has come out of this season. Should they have not at least worked on their relationship with Moyes enough that they could at least scrape a 4th place finish this season?
Some folk take things far too seriously around here. Christ.
Are people genuinely questioning the veracity of some two-bob, meaningless list that took me all of twenty seconds to compile, that was, you know, only supposed to be mildly interesting at 1am?
Weirdos.
Bizarre that some of them decided to knock themselves down at least 6 pegs in their performances this season then.
Boy, if true, The Times article paints a picture that reminds me of the teacher at the front of the bus reading "How to Educate" books while the kids at the back snigger and shoot spitballs at each other. It's funny how perceptions are affected by preconceptions. If Mourinho is reading a management book I bet his players see it as another example of his continual drive for self-improvement. Moyes, however could have been perceived by the players as someone desperate to work things out from books that he should already know.
I get the idea that athletes smell fear-and they don't respect someone who they perceive as weak. From the beginning, again assuming these reports are accurate, some of the players decided Moyes was small time. Unfortunately Moyes apparently did nothing to change their minds.
As much as I wanted Moyes out-I do feel sorry for him if these reports are accurate: that the harder he tried the worse things got. Seems as though he wasn't a strong enough leader to get players to believe in him. And, if the manager isn't the alpha dog-he will get eaten alive.
I get the idea that athletes smell fear-and they don't respect someone who they perceive as weak. From the beginning, again assuming these reports are accurate, some of the players decided Moyes was small time. Unfortunately Moyes apparently did nothing to change their minds.
As much as I wanted Moyes out-I do feel sorry for him if these reports are accurate: that the harder he tried the worse things got. Seems as though he wasn't a strong enough leader to get players to believe in him. And, if the manager isn't the alpha dog-he will get eaten alive.
Some folk take things far too seriously around here. Christ.
Are people genuinely questioning the veracity of some two-bob, meaningless list that took me all of twenty seconds to compile, that was, you know, only supposed to be mildly interesting at 1am?
Weirdos.
I think it was deeply interesting. Don't be so hard on yourself.
I can't help but feel people are getting caught up on the book. He's obviously an intelligent man, he's reading a corporate strategy book that was printed in 2001 and has sold millions of copies and been highly rated across the board.
The way people are acting you'd think he was caught reading this.
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