Giggs would be my bet if the stuff about their relationship is true.
Confirmed: Moyes sacked.
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Giggs would be my bet if the stuff about their relationship is true.
Welbeck and Kagawa were on as subs after the hour mark and this happened 'towards the end of the game'. It was definitely Buttner the hard bastard.
You have to wonder who is saying this to the press now?
Presume Moyes got a gagging order as part of his severance package.
I'd have a guess at one of his cabbages of assistants.
If you are laughing at that then you are someone who doesnt understand that even when people are in top positions they are constantly trying to improve. I saw an interview of Mourinho on a course I was on talking about a book called "six thinking hats".
I had the opposite belief a few years ago when the Chelsea players did over AVB. Let's say I've changed my opinion a lot since then (this nothing to do with United). People will always have negatives towards a new manager but you have to know how to manage that right and Moyes never.
Surely Giggs wouldn't have done that. Welbeck my guess.
David Moyes' sacking is not the answer to all of Man Utd's problems... and bringing in a foreign boss could tear the club apart
Jamie Carragher.
If Manchester United think sacking David Moyes is the key to bringing them future harmony, they should think again.
They are in the real world now, just like everyone else. The problems to which they were immune while Sir Alex Ferguson was in charge are going to surface. Getting rid of Moyes will not suddenly transform their position.
It is sad to see Moyes go. He is a good man who had great pride in being given the responsibility to lead United and it was far from ideal that his departure from Old Trafford was played out so publicly.
Nothing like this — the speculation, the unconfirmed reports — happened in the Ferguson era.
There were no leaks, but that was because Ferguson provided stability and people were almost frightened of saying a word out of place. This week’s events show those days have gone.
Ryan Giggs has taken temporary charge but United will almost certainly appoint a foreign manager, and I know from my experiences with Liverpool how big a culture shock that will be.
United believe in their traditions, values and style but whoever comes in, be it Louis van Gaal or someone else, they will have their own ideas and be determined to implement them from top to bottom.
That is what happened with Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez at Liverpool. Don’t get me wrong, both men enjoyed success and were huge influences on my career; they were also responsible for a lot of good things.
But there came a point when they wanted the same type of control as Ferguson had at United. He, though, had earned that total authority with his time and success, and when Liverpool were reluctant to back them to that extent, the trouble started. Doctors and physios who had been at Anfield for years started moving on when they did not see eye-to-eye with the manager.
Houllier and Benitez wanted total control of the academy and that also caused massive tensions. There was bickering behind the scenes, but you never heard of such things happening at Old Trafford.
At times, different departments at Liverpool were barely on speaking terms. One manager, for example, was seemingly pleased when we had been knocked out of the FA Youth Cup.
There was also a list going around the academy of the amount of bad foreign signings that had been made. You may think that astonishing but it is true. There were three or four changes in the academy set-up at Liverpool due to personality clashes.
This is what could face United. Whoever comes in to replace Moyes will, of course, be told he is playing to the rules of the club but what happens if Van Gaal, who is such a powerful character, starts well and gains power? Before you know it, you are faced with a situation where the soul of the club can be ripped apart.
And what happens if the next manager doesn’t have success?
This isn’t going to be a quick fix. I remember Ferguson speaking about the handover from Kenny Dalglish to Graeme Souness at Liverpool in 1991, singling out the signings of David Speedie and Jimmy Carter and saying the squad was too old. He felt that was a reason Liverpool fell away and he was determined that would not happen to his club.
But look at the signing of Wilfried Zaha, who is currently unable to get a game for Cardiff, and the difficulties United have had replacing Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra.
Results are the reason Moyes’s position became untenable and certain things, from the way he spoke after defeats to how his United team played, reminded me of Roy Hodgson’s reign at Liverpool.
The beginning of the end came for Hodgson with a 2-0 defeat by Everton at Goodison Park — after which he claimed Liverpool had played well when the reality was anything but — and there was an irony the same result at the same ground did for Moyes.
Like Hodgson, however, Moyes can come again. Hodgson is taking England to the World Cup and I wouldn’t be surprised if Moyes ended up moving abroad, as he has spoken of his ambition to manage a team in Germany.
Van Gaal is the favourite to replace him, with Carlo Ancelotti believed to have some admirers, too.
Van Gaal is a coach with a fantastic c.v. and presence who was at the peak of his powers in the 1990s when leading Ajax to the Champions League.
Jamie Carragher.
If Manchester United think sacking David Moyes is the key to bringing them future harmony, they should think again.
They are in the real world now, just like everyone else. The problems to which they were immune while Sir Alex Ferguson was in charge are going to surface. Getting rid of Moyes will not suddenly transform their position.
It is sad to see Moyes go. He is a good man who had great pride in being given the responsibility to lead United and it was far from ideal that his departure from Old Trafford was played out so publicly.
Nothing like this — the speculation, the unconfirmed reports — happened in the Ferguson era.
There were no leaks, but that was because Ferguson provided stability and people were almost frightened of saying a word out of place. This week’s events show those days have gone.
Ryan Giggs has taken temporary charge but United will almost certainly appoint a foreign manager, and I know from my experiences with Liverpool how big a culture shock that will be.
United believe in their traditions, values and style but whoever comes in, be it Louis van Gaal or someone else, they will have their own ideas and be determined to implement them from top to bottom.
That is what happened with Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez at Liverpool. Don’t get me wrong, both men enjoyed success and were huge influences on my career; they were also responsible for a lot of good things.
But there came a point when they wanted the same type of control as Ferguson had at United. He, though, had earned that total authority with his time and success, and when Liverpool were reluctant to back them to that extent, the trouble started. Doctors and physios who had been at Anfield for years started moving on when they did not see eye-to-eye with the manager.
Houllier and Benitez wanted total control of the academy and that also caused massive tensions. There was bickering behind the scenes, but you never heard of such things happening at Old Trafford.
At times, different departments at Liverpool were barely on speaking terms. One manager, for example, was seemingly pleased when we had been knocked out of the FA Youth Cup.
There was also a list going around the academy of the amount of bad foreign signings that had been made. You may think that astonishing but it is true. There were three or four changes in the academy set-up at Liverpool due to personality clashes.
This is what could face United. Whoever comes in to replace Moyes will, of course, be told he is playing to the rules of the club but what happens if Van Gaal, who is such a powerful character, starts well and gains power? Before you know it, you are faced with a situation where the soul of the club can be ripped apart.
And what happens if the next manager doesn’t have success?
This isn’t going to be a quick fix. I remember Ferguson speaking about the handover from Kenny Dalglish to Graeme Souness at Liverpool in 1991, singling out the signings of David Speedie and Jimmy Carter and saying the squad was too old. He felt that was a reason Liverpool fell away and he was determined that would not happen to his club.
But look at the signing of Wilfried Zaha, who is currently unable to get a game for Cardiff, and the difficulties United have had replacing Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra.
Results are the reason Moyes’s position became untenable and certain things, from the way he spoke after defeats to how his United team played, reminded me of Roy Hodgson’s reign at Liverpool.
The beginning of the end came for Hodgson with a 2-0 defeat by Everton at Goodison Park — after which he claimed Liverpool had played well when the reality was anything but — and there was an irony the same result at the same ground did for Moyes.
Like Hodgson, however, Moyes can come again. Hodgson is taking England to the World Cup and I wouldn’t be surprised if Moyes ended up moving abroad, as he has spoken of his ambition to manage a team in Germany.
Van Gaal is the favourite to replace him, with Carlo Ancelotti believed to have some admirers, too.
Van Gaal is a coach with a fantastic c.v. and presence who was at the peak of his powers in the 1990s when leading Ajax to the Champions League.
Not entirely correct. Moyes appears to be furious about the way it was done, rather than the fact it was done at all. He'd have a right to be furious too; his dismissal, just like his appointment, has been handled in a shambolic way by the club.
Welbeck was subbed on after an hour. By all accounts Giggs wasn't Moyes biggest fan to say the least, and it wouldn't surprise me.
We really are. I guess it at least shatters that illusion that our players are somehow the good guys and better people than "chelsea or city mercenaries".
As much as I believe it was time to go, I see this as a very dark day for this great club. So many people have behaved badly, from owners to fans. The guy wasn't good enough, but there is no need to kick a man when he is down.
Roy Keane is right, many players ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Roy Keane is right, many players ought to be ashamed of themselves.
(Courtesy of Goal.com)
MOYES'S UNWANTED RECORDS AT MAN UTD
Surely he understands why he has been sacked?
But did he not know how cringeworthy that looked to the players never mind the public? That's a terrible lack of self-awareness. He also seems a frightful bore with no personality to speak of.
Players must have thought he is a right moron running around with them trying to tackle them and god knows the things they must have been saying to each other when he wasn't around.
That the times article. First few paragraphs have me baffled !
Thing about it is stuff like this has been in Red Issue for months, everyone knew it was going on but the mainstream journalists weren't running the stories. That's why I feel so 'meh' about their whole wise after the event act. All this time they've been acting like Moyes was managing everything perfectly it was just that the players weren't good enough. Now suddenly, when its convenient and there's no pressure, they start telling the truth about how Moyes lost the dressing room ages ago cos he was out of his depths and not tactically ready for this level.
Felt a genuine pang of pity as soon as I got to the bit about him reading the self help book. Poor bastard was trying everything, he was just so far out of his depth. That's genuinely quite sad considering how desperate he must have been to make things work. Meanwhile, the players are being pricks.
First time today I've actually been grimmed out.
I wonder what will happen with our chase for Luke Shaw and Kroos now?
I mentioned it before, nothing desperate about reading those books, Mourinho does it but is that desperate?Felt a genuine pang of pity as soon as I got to the bit about him reading the self help book. Poor bastard was trying everything, he was just so far out of his depth. That's genuinely quite sad considering how desperate he must have been to make things work. Meanwhile, the players are being pricks.
First time today I've actually been grimmed out.
I agree with that generally, he's a decent manager but just not up to the task. My issue is that Moyes is gone but the players are still here so now it's their role that has to be looked at. Way too many of them have not been up to it and a lot of nonsense seems to have gone on behind the scenes. A lot of people dislike or don't rate their managers, it doesn't mean they start acting like petulant dickheads. I'd like to see a United team with some proper characters in it going forward and not a group of players of which several are not good enough and don't seem to respect what it means to play for Manchester United.
So who was the player who turned up late and drunk to training without punishment? No wonder Welbz was peeved by his treatment if that's true. Clear favouritism. Punish the young players and squad players while someone gets to do whatever he wants. Then you wonder why the team spirit has gone out of the side...?
Anyone got the video of that Olympiakos game towards the end?
I didn't mean he was desperate for reading the books. I meant he was desperate to be a success and was trying everything he could to get better, and the players were slagging him off for it. feck that, I'm actually pissed off now. One thing to have a go at him for being useless but it's another to have a go at him for trying to get better.
Cheers for posting.
Christ, this is some fallout. Sure book publishers are scrambling to obtain the rights for a Moyes' autobiography.
To be fair, I think SAF contributed in instilling that personality into the players.
I bet you that had we been in this situation many years ago(different United squad), the same would have happened, and it probably would have been worse.
I am not going to bash the players for this. They are not angels and neither was SAF.
Moyes was not the right person for the job, period.
Ah, understood.
Sounds to me like the long knives are coming out for the Utd players from the "Scottish mafia" -- those people who've supported Moyes all year long. I don't think things are going to be pretty for a while yet, and I don't think the next manager is going to get nearly the good press that Moyes did.
Possibly however that doesn't stop the kids that take the piss out of the supply teacher cnuts. Moyes out of his depth but the players cannot come out of this with any credit.
feck all I'd say
Related in an obscure manner but over the years I have learned with coaching kids that the kids know when a coach is good or bad, they also know when you put on a good or bad session. If you lose the players belief in you then its hard work getting it back. It sounds like Moyes lost the players belief or never actually had it. The players know if a coach is up to a job or not. They can also tell if there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Dunno about that. Would be a pretty horrendous read! Much better checking Rio's twatter for updates.
I imagine the light was knowing he'd be gone sooner rather than later.
Who cares? Getting Moyes out was the most important thing this club could have done.
We'll see what the new manager does.
yeah I can imagine their relief right now but nobody comes out of this looking good in truth.
You have made your feelings about Moyes very apparent, but there is no doubt about it, there are many players that need to go and are equally responsible for this debacle.
Thing is though, once they think you are a joke it's 99% impossible to fix it. First impressions are so important and he must have fecked up pretty early on. It must have been a hard time for him towards the end, he must have known they were all taking the piss behind his back. Not a nice situation to be in. Shame, but he has earned £5m for his troubles so I find it hard to feel too bad for him.
Ferguson was twat to everyone outside the club but he wasn't one to stop trying or start mucking about. I don't think he would've instilled anything of the sort, discipline and respect for the club is what he instilled. Moyes clearly wasn't the right man but he's not the only person who deserves criticism, the players deserve it too. Some aren't good enough but at least have given their all but every indication is that a lot of the players have a very inflated opinion themselves and are completely devoid of class.
Yep, I've heard a few ex-pros saying a dressing room will know if a coach isn't up to the job within the first couple of weeks.
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