Confirmed: Moyes sacked.

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Oh responding to my smiley with your smiley, but no addressing the reason all this started, I wonder why? Oh that's right, because you got slated for it once already.

Your fantasy scenarios are that, fantasy. This all seems to have started because you have been wanting United to lose this season.



Delighted we lost to Everton?

So the fantasy scenarios are one thing but you've been watching United wanting them to lose this season and you think you are more of a fan? You would sooner Everton get Europa than United. We have a big squad and european football would help us with that, but you would sooner United finish as low as possible and get tanked by everybody and anybody. This is not fantasy but reality.

The Glazers have made clear the importance of europa and the income from it but you don't want us having the extra money. You would rather Everton have that money.

I wonder who Alex Ferguson would consider the real fan here. The fact you've been supporting the opposition to win this season and not just win but win big when it's had no bearing on Liverpool, I think Alex Ferguson would be disgusted by your behaviour :nono:
Actually I think it's been demonstrated repeatedly how bad an effect the Europa League has an effect on teams. Everton was the first match of the season I actively wanted the opposition to win. I felt that it would be a clear demonstration to the board of the limitations of Moyes as a manager and would guarantee he wouldn't get a second season, something I thought would be disastrous for the club. I felt that taking that one loss would lead to more future wins. Similarly to how American teams benefit from more losses with higher draft picks. Similar to how Liverpool benefited from Dalglish losing his last couple of games in 10/11, meaning they felt compelled to get a new manager.

And I still find it hilarious you would want us to beat Chelsea to give Liverpool the title. I trust you've never gotten a police escort from outside Anfield?
 
When people say that they need a manager to deal with the player power what do they mean by it? Because Moyes tried to give shit back e.g the Welbeck fine and it was probably the final straw.

The question that was posed to Louis van Gaal at the press conference earlier in the season seemed innocuous enough. The subject was Wesley Sneijder, who Van Gaal had recalled to the Holland team and the manager was asked what he would do if the midfielder did the business in the World Cup qualifier against Estonia.

Van Gaal was in the throes of a characteristically passionate answer when he suddenly threw out his arms and bellowed into the microphone that he would celebrate like this. It was one of those moments that took you aback and there were slightly nervous laughs from the floor. But nobody ought really to have been surprised because this, after all, is Van Gaal; the king of zaniness and over-the-top outpourings, not to mention latent hostility towards the media.

The incident made a mark in Holland; there were the obligatory house music remixes on YouTube and, in many ways, it provided a snapshot of the borderline craziness of the 62-year-old national team manager who is, by some distance, the most colourful and controversial character in Dutch football.

He is also the most in demand. Tottenham Hotspur have made overtures towards him and Manchester United have him under consideration to become the permanent successor to David Moyes, who they sacked on Tuesday morning. Van Gaal is likely to have other options as he approaches the end of his contract with Holland – he becomes a free agent after the World Cup finals in Brazil – and he could be in a position to play some of them off against others.

The sense that he has been waiting for the Moyes Out development at Old Trafford has not endeared him at Tottenham. He met with them last December before they appointed Tim Sherwood as André Villas-Boas's successor and he has remained prominent in their thoughts as they prepare to make another change in the summer.

Van Gaal has made no secret of his desire to manage in the Premier League and he is also quite clear about where he sees his standing in the game. Having previously managed Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern Munich, he believes that he is a part of the very elite. If it were a choice between Manchester United and Tottenham, he would choose the former, and the knowledge of this might explain why some employees at White Hart Lane had started to pooh-pooh the idea of Van Gaal coming to them even before Moyes' dismissal.

Van Gaal is the subject of endless fascination and scrutiny, particularly in Holland, where a book about the complexities of his character was published last month. In 'O, Louis', the journalist Hugo Borst examines what makes Van Gaal such a special and unique person, why he is always fighting and, essentially, how he tiptoes the line between madness and genius.

Consider some of the ego-centric stories – most infamously, the pants-down motivational speech in the Bayern dressing-room, which feels apocryphal but is true – and the line appears blurred, to say the least.

In that scene, the angry Van Gaal disrobed in an attempt to make a point about why he substituted players, although confusion reigned. Luca Toni, Bayern's striker at the time, thought Van Gaal was suggesting ‚ "he had the balls" to drop anyone, yet the manager actually wanted to say that any substitutions were not for his ego but the sake of the team.

Van Gaal might be extreme in word and deed but his appeal has always been located in his tactical knowledge. His analysis is notoriously detailed and accurate and he sets up his teams both to play attractive passing football and to win. He was influenced by Holland's total football of the 1970s, when he was a young midfielder making his way in the game but his managerial CV is embossed by trophies.

His time in charge of Ajax, between 1991-97, was his most glorious, with three Eredivisie titles (including an unbeaten league season in 1995); the Uefa Cup in 1992 and the Champions League in 1995. He became a knight of the Dutch realm. He also won La Liga with Barcelona in 1998 and 1999; one more Eredivisie with unfancied AZ Alkmaar in 2009 and the Bundesliga with Bayern in 2010.

Van Gaal wins players' respect through his vision and know-how, but he also works hard to build strong relationships; to be connected with them on a personal level. Players past and present talk of how he remembers their wives' birthdays and the names of their children while Van Gaal has described himself as a "relationships coach".

His methods have tended to work the best with young players or older ones who have remained open-minded and hungry. Van Gaal has struggled at times with those that have achieved star status and become more cynical. An example came in the qualifying campaign for the 2002 World Cup, in his first spell as the Holland manager, when he took over a squad that featured many of the players from his Champions League-winning Ajax team.

Back then, the likes of Frank and Ronald De Boer, Clarence Seedorf, Edgar Davids and Patrick Kluivert were determined to make their names and they responded to Van Gaal. Years on and with reputations established, the relationship was not so productive. Egos collided. Holland missed out on Japan and South Korea.

Control is fundamental to Van Gaal and there are invariably problems when he feels that his authority over technical matters has been questioned. They flare regularly with the press. He once told a journalist: "Am I so smart or are you so stupid?" which has proved to be one of his most famous quotes, although disagreements with club colleagues have pockmarked his career.

It was perhaps inevitable that he would clash with Uli Hoeness and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge at Bayern; football men who were, nominally, on the administrative side but who have strong opinions about the team. "Van Gaal's failure is clearly in his attitude," Rummenigge said after Van Gaal had left in 2011. "If that mentality is customary – as it is with Felix Magath – you have to have success. If it fails, you lose your friends."

Van Gaal endured friction at Barcelona with Rivaldo, the Brazil forward while, during his spell as Ajax's technical director in 2004, he clashed with the manager, Ronald Koeman. During a training camp in Portugal, Van Gaal took a chair for himself and placed it on the side of the pitch and, arms folded, he would watch all of Koeman's sessions from it. It is not difficult to imagine how Van Gaal might have reacted had the roles been reversed.

At Alkmaar, after a difficult season in 2007-08, when the team finished 11th out of 18, Van Gaal had wanted to quit. Many of the squad lacked hunger and his methods were not working. But a few key players urged him to stay and shape the team as he wanted for the following season. He did so, dropping the difficult players, imposing his mentality and winning the title by 11 points.

When Van Gaal can manage in his way, with his control and with players that he rates, the results can be impressive. He almost went to Manchester United in 2002 only for Sir Alex Ferguson to reverse his decision to retire. The fireworks have long come as standard.
 
When people say that they need a manager to deal with the player power what do they mean by it?

I think they mean someone who can handle and earn the respect of 20-30 talented young millionaires, Moyes it seems misjudged the players, the situation, and how to handle them.

Stories of making them watch countless DVD's of opposition teams, going on and on about how everton did things, etc. etc.

Talk of training being based around physical work, top teams don't train that way obvious they wouldn't appreciate that.

Because Moyes tried to give shit back e.g the Welbeck fine and it was probably the final straw.

Its ok fining Welbeck & Cleverley from a position of strength if you have already gained the players trust and they recognize you are the boss, but he fined them when his position was precarious a lighter touch and giving them a bit more slack might have been more prudent, given the circumstances.

Of course as well as the fines he also gave them 10 days of extra training which reportedly a lot of the squad thought was harsh considering they had 3 days off and didn't play again for 10 days. They are young lad blowing off a bit of steam, any punishment was hardly even warranted beyond a telling off.
 
None of us are sure how Fergusons financial part was handled but the usual route is manager and scouting team identify targets and the board sanction the funding. Perhaps Ferguson had complete control over this and advised at what price to pull the plug but Ferguson was a renowned delegator and in some cases it was over a few million or agent fees. Either way we have failed to compete in the market and find ourselves in a position of weakened bargaining.

If the Glazers didn't refuse funding it is plausible to think they would be willing to make more money available in the future to compensate for the lack of investment during those seasons therefore Ferguson would have valued the player not wanting to overspend rather saving that money for the future.

We don't know either way but I think there is too much to the contrary for us to state the glazers refused funding unless Ferguson comes out with it.

I think at the start of the season centre back wasn't a problem due to the performances last season of Ferdinand and the fact Vidic was available. I also think Evra was good enough last year.

Central midfield was the obvious issue and the backing seemed to be there to address this.

De Rossi was available (Rudi Garcia said David's indecision cost him), and Strootman was also available. Moyes tried but he messed up, I do think enough financing was there to get the needed quality (e.g. Strootman for £15m).

Rudi claims he agreed De Rossi could listen to offers but asked once the season started he doesn't leave due to the lack of time to find a replacement, De Rossi agreed and he waited for United's bid as they were interested. Moyes according to Rudi Garcia bid once the season had started, they accepted the bid as they had promised De Rossi but he refused to talk because it came after the deadline he and the club had set therefore keeping his promise to Rudi. Rumours were £10-12m was the price, so for less than £30m it was possible we could have had De Rossi and Strootman.

The decline of Evra, the performances of Rio and the departure of Vidic adds LB and CB to CM (x2) however had central midfield been addressed last summer then this wouldn't be such a difficult window. I blame mostly Moyes for not sorting central midfield out however the board (Woodward's inexperience) would have had a fair bit to do with it also.

Your right in some sense that you can't force a manager to use advisors and coaches but when that manager is literally coming in to an elite club from mid table then there should really have been better succession planning. A time under which Moyes came in to the club and learned alongside advisors and coaches how best to steer the ship, ideally 6-12 months under the legend himself. We all know of the unique situation we found ourselves in and it was poor from all concerned.

I still think Moyes should have been able to get 4th, at the least 5th without advisors. I also think had he taken 5th, he would still be in a job as he would be so close to Arsenal in 4th.

That said, succession planning would have done no harm. How would one go about this? Would Ferguson's influence not be problematic? Would Ferguson even be a good advisor in this situation?

This board have proven time after time to be penny pinchers, back when United was limited we always invested in the very best players (making your opening sentence nonsense) and this plc has been reaping the rewards ever since. Mind blowing that our transfer record was Berbatov right up until we got mugged for Fellaini.

My opening sentence is nonsense? The statement the board are ultimately responsible for all that happens (as with any company) is nonsense?

Van Nisterooy,Rooney,Veron,Ferdinand all the highest fees in the land and it was a regular occurrence under the very same Ferguson who touted value at us much later under new owners. Each season we strengthened from a position of strength only Berbatov and perhaps Anderson have commanded such extravagant fees under the current board.

We now find ourselves strengthening from a weakened position and will be playing catchup as our rivals continue to strengthen themselves, add bedding in another new manager and it all points to a cock up. The board have made a massive error in long term judgement and it's back biting them on the arse or rather where it hurts them most, right on the wallet.

Firstly, you are assuming football remained constant. The influx of obscenely wealthy owners changed the meaning of value in the market, coincidently this is the point Ferguson started touting the lack of value. I think the inflated prices that came had something to do with our reluctance to pay the highest fees in the land.

It goes back to my point I do not know whether the Glazers refused investment or were willing to back Ferguson as he claims. Of course he will claim that because they are his employers however I can understand why he would look for value with how the prices went. He didn't want to pay what Chelsea or City were willing to just like Jurgen Klopp doesn't seem to want to do that now. Although Dortmund were in a financial mess they have done a wonderful job sorting this out however they will continue to operate in a smart way.

So under the glazers we have spent obviously £27m on Fellaini and £37m on Mata however under ferguson £24m on RVP, £15m Zaha, £17m Jones, £19m De Gea, £17m Young, £16m Valencia, £17m Hargreeves, £18.6m Carrick and as mentioned £30.75m Berbatov and £20m Anderson.

I'm not sure your point is fair, the board have spent, there is no doubt about that. During this period many players were overvalued therefore those that might have been worth it for £30m would probably be worth £10m more at which point they are no longer attractive.

So the bids above £15m Pre-Glazers:

RVN - £19m
Rooney - £27m
Ferdinand - £27 - £30m
Veron - £28.1m

Outside of that not much more of note really. Therefore the question is not the Glazers spending but what happened to the Ronaldo money and should there be this war chest then it's probably locked up in that.
 
Actually I think it's been demonstrated repeatedly how bad an effect the Europa League has an effect on teams. Everton was the first match of the season I actively wanted the opposition to win. I felt that it would be a clear demonstration to the board of the limitations of Moyes as a manager and would guarantee he wouldn't get a second season, something I thought would be disastrous for the club. I felt that taking that one loss would lead to more future wins. Similarly to how American teams benefit from more losses with higher draft picks. Similar to how Liverpool benefited from Dalglish losing his last couple of games in 10/11, meaning they felt compelled to get a new manager.

And I still find it hilarious you would want us to beat Chelsea to give Liverpool the title. I trust you've never gotten a police escort from outside Anfield?

The only time in your life your actually delighted to see the inards of Liverpool fecking Lime Street.
 
When people say that they need a manager to deal with the player power what do they mean by it? Because Moyes tried to give shit back e.g the Welbeck fine and it was probably the final straw.

The fine was pointless and completely undeserved though. When he reached for the resources to perhaps try and get hold of players he picked the wrong time and the wrong reason.
 
Therefore the question is not the Glazers spending but what happened to the Ronaldo money and should there be this war chest then it's probably locked up in that.

Are people really still banging on about "What happened to the Ronaldo money?!" We've overspent on players like Young, Jones, Fellaini, Mata and Zaha. Arguably DDG too, as 18m is a lot of money to spend on a goalkeeper. On those players alone, the fees are about £110m (not inc. DDG).
 
Actually I think it's been demonstrated repeatedly how bad an effect the Europa League has an effect on teams. Everton was the first match of the season I actively wanted the opposition to win. I felt that it would be a clear demonstration to the board of the limitations of Moyes as a manager and would guarantee he wouldn't get a second season, something I thought would be disastrous for the club. I felt that taking that one loss would lead to more future wins. Similarly to how American teams benefit from more losses with higher draft picks. Similar to how Liverpool benefited from Dalglish losing his last couple of games in 10/11, meaning they felt compelled to get a new manager.

And I still find it hilarious you would want us to beat Chelsea to give Liverpool the title. I trust you've never gotten a police escort from outside Anfield?

Chelsea finished third in the league and won Europa, they have done very well in Europe so far and that experience has only helped them. With a team like Swansea of course Europa is problematic however United could play a second string keeping players like Welbeck and Hernandez happy. Our squad is simply too big to survive without Europe. It will keep them happy and so I think it's important.

The decision to sack Moyes apparently was made long before Everton (it seems to be a plausible suggestion). They were waiting for it to become mathematically impossible for us to get 4th place, it was obvious with how the season had gone he was going to get sacked. And if he did pull off a great escape and sneak 4th miraculously then fair play to him.

I don't know how you wanted Everton to hammer them. I was annoyed that we lost. This is a big difference.

Regarding Liverpool and Chelsea I have made clear my mentality. Pre-season for us starts as soon as fourth is impossible (or secured but league is impossible), we must forget about the others and focus on doing everything we possibly can to ensure we win it again next season. That means identifying players who could be important (e.g. Januzaj but also non first team youngsters) and giving them a few games, hoping they dominate and go into their summer break very happy instead of disappointed by their performance.

I can't see Louis van Gaal next season (if he is chosen) telling the lads to lose so Liverpool don't win the league. He will want it the following season more than anything therefore everything he does will be geared toward making it happen. That is the winners mentality, and if you find it hilarious the team should start pre-season as soon as the league is over then so be it.

I think you would sooner Chelsea win the league twice in a row than Liverpool win it and United the following season. Otherwise you would support the notion United should focus on themselves and do all they can to ensure they are fully prepared for the season ahead.
 
When people say that they need a manager to deal with the player power what do they mean by it? Because Moyes tried to give shit back e.g the Welbeck fine and it was probably the final straw.

Welbeck and Cleverley are easy targets, if that was RvP or Rooney he wouldn't have had the balls to do the same. Just 2 days before he fined them, he let an unfit Wayne Rooney play 90 mins against Bayern. Never had the balls to take him off despite later admitting Rooney was having difficulties striking the ball. So Moyes failed to show his authority when it really mattered. What good does it do when he then fines Welbeck and Cleverley 10 days before a game?
 
This thread has been a steady stream of 'feck yeah' posts, very few 'Sad about it, but thank you Moyes' posts, and Empire and Gasmanc going at each other's throat in one humongous shit stirring episode.
 
Great news.

As I've been saying, feel sorry for him on a personal level, but not fit to manage this club.
 
We've conceded almost every corner, and almost every home game, and we've tolerated it. We've tolerated it because it's common, it's trivial. Well not anymore. Moyes has become an example. And what he's done is going to be puzzled over, and studied, and ridiculed.. forever.
 
I think it is funny how the players referred to Moyes as "everton". Someone said on Talksport that Giggs would arrive at Carrington asking if "Everton" had arrived yet"? :lol:

How wonder if the players held/or are holding a private party after the sacking.
 
What I'm not liking about these articles and the pundits talking is they don't mention how for a long period of his tenure, he publicly said the team wasn't good enough for him.

He only ever gave glowing references of Rooney and RVP. It shows his inability to be a man-manager and get the players on his side. Some should be ashamed somewhat, but it's not all innocent for Moyes. Week after week we are looking for new players, we're not good enough in this area, Sir Alex would've struggled with this lot etc etc.
 
Daniel Taylor's piece tonight, on how it happened:

The decision to fire Moyes was taken in a conference call involving Woodward, the Glazers, Ferguson and the club's other directors on Sunday night, directly after the 2-0 defeat to Everton. The relevant people agreed to discuss the matter again on Monday rather than making an emotional decision but there was already a clear consensus that Moyes had to go.

Ferguson was asked for his opinion but it was made clear to him that his colleagues had already made up their minds. Most of the directors had lost faith in Moyes in February and Woodward's opinion was that he could have been sacked, justifiably, any time over the last two months.

Moyes learned his fate when the story broke on various newspaper websites on Monday and is particularly unhappy about the way it was handled. He had a brief conversation with the club's press officer, Karen Shotbolt, but nobody in a senior position contacted him for the rest of the day.

Everything was confirmed when Woodward broke the news at the training ground and Richard Bevan, the chief executive of the League Managers' Association, was then invited to join them to discuss a compensation package.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/22/alex-ferguson-manchester-united-manager?CMP=twt_gu
 
I would blame Fergie more for this, surely he should never have put Moyes in that situation. Sort of feel sorry for the guy but I thought from the start there was no way these players would accept being told what to do by him and his Everton staff.
 
I think the media should just shut up now. Its getting pathetic the amount of unsources "inside information" they are coming out with at the moment. Its bollocks and although Moyes was dire as a manager its just pathetic mudslinging at the moment when hes already been fired.
 
Wow, that's really disgraceful if true.
I know, Moyes wasn't the right man for the job but I do think a massive clearout is needed. A lot of these players are second rate and a lot of them are very questionable characters. Interesting that Rio wasn't the one leaking the team as was previously rumoured.
 
Moyes deserved everything he received from the players. He disrespected them as soon as he got here. It is easy for you guys to condemn the players, but you are not in their position. Why should a group of winners have to receive "insults" from a guy that had never won anything. Moyes is at fault for alienating his new squad.
 
Alex Ferguson has always been about value in the market.

My opening sentence is nonsense?

Yes I am afraid it is and you seem to agree.

The influx of obscenely wealthy owners changed the meaning of value in the market, coincidently this is the point Ferguson started touting the lack of value

To stick to the point you've quoted a few of our signings under the current board that backs up my initial statement.

So under the glazers we have spent obviously £27m on Fellaini and £37m on Mata however under ferguson £24m on RVP, £15m Zaha, £17m Jones, £19m De Gea, £17m Young, £16m Valencia, £17m Hargreeves, £18.6m Carrick and as mentioned £30.75m Berbatov and £20m Anderson.


Bolded this seasons transfers as one was a panic buy and the other was after the penny had dropped literally.

Young prospects, bargains and Berbatov is what you have and exactly our policy under the PLC.

RVP was an utter steal, best player in his position in the league for 24m yes pleas, Carrick has been a great servant but is still not in that top bracket, Hargreaves could have arguably done it but again it wasn't a player who was at the top tier. De Gea brilliant and young, a risk at 19m, Jones was a similar ilk buy but 17m is peanuts in the modern era, Valencia replaced an 80million pound Ronaldo so let's not go there shall we. Young lol ? Zaha, where is Zaha has anyone seen him ? is he still alive ? Anderson should have been kept on and ordered to eat Round and Lumsden whole.

Where are these top tier players of similar ilk to the Rooneys and Ferdinands that Ferguson signed under a limited company ? Where are they under the current board ? They don't exist and have left us pairing up Carrick with the hapless Cleverley or Anderson or an out of position CB for the last 3 years. Your only kidding yourself I am afraid.

They've likely spent the Ronaldo money on new hats and glasses and this warchest could easily be surplus to requirements under a genius like Van Gaal, touting this current board as half the answers to your argument is a failed plan, the real genius sits in the stands wondering why that Moyes chap can't do what came so simply to him.
 
Moyes deserved everything he received from the players. He disrespected them as soon as he got here. It is easy for you guys to condemn the players, but you are not in their position. Why should a group of winners have to receive "insults" from a guy that had never won anything. Moyes is at fault for alienating his new squad.
He didn't really insult them, he was pretty honest but players (understandably) like to be encouraged not given the harsh reality. Our squad isn't good enough to win the Champions League, we struggled under Ferguson last year but he was so good that we found a way to win games that we haven't under a merely decent manager like Moyes. I'm relieved his tenure is over but a lot of those players need clearing out. If they were so upset by what Moyes supposedly said then surely good players and good people would respond by going about proving him wrong, not illustrating his point.
 
"Send him off, we'd be better off".

These were the subs against Olympiakos away:

Giggs
Lindegaard
Hernández
Welbeck
Kagawa
Büttner
Fellaini

Assuming this is true as it's been reported by two journos: Who was it? Apparently this happened towards the end of the game. Welbeck had come on for Valencia in the 60th, and Kagawa had come on for Cleverley in the 61st, so not them.
 
Chelsea finished third in the league and won Europa, they have done very well in Europe so far and that experience has only helped them. With a team like Swansea of course Europa is problematic however United could play a second string keeping players like Welbeck and Hernandez happy. Our squad is simply too big to survive without Europe. It will keep them happy and so I think it's important.

The decision to sack Moyes apparently was made long before Everton (it seems to be a plausible suggestion). They were waiting for it to become mathematically impossible for us to get 4th place, it was obvious with how the season had gone he was going to get sacked. And if he did pull off a great escape and sneak 4th miraculously then fair play to him.

I don't know how you wanted Everton to hammer them. I was annoyed that we lost. This is a big difference.

Regarding Liverpool and Chelsea I have made clear my mentality. Pre-season for us starts as soon as fourth is impossible (or secured but league is impossible), we must forget about the others and focus on doing everything we possibly can to ensure we win it again next season. That means identifying players who could be important (e.g. Januzaj but also non first team youngsters) and giving them a few games, hoping they dominate and go into their summer break very happy instead of disappointed by their performance.

I can't see Louis van Gaal next season (if he is chosen) telling the lads to lose so Liverpool don't win the league. He will want it the following season more than anything therefore everything he does will be geared toward making it happen. That is the winners mentality, and if you find it hilarious the team should start pre-season as soon as the league is over then so be it.

I think you would sooner Chelsea win the league twice in a row than Liverpool win it and United the following season. Otherwise you would support the notion United should focus on themselves and do all they can to ensure they are fully prepared for the season ahead.
Yeah, third. On 75 points. Same they've got the next year with 3 games left. The decision to sack Moyes was definitively taken after Everton, according to several accounts. Of course it was merely the straw that broke the camel's back in all likelihood, but we didn't know that. Right before Everton there were still plenty convinced he'd be given until Christmas. So yes, I wanted it, and I feel vindicated. If there was even the slightest chance Moyes would stay with a convincing win over Everton (plus winning out probably), then it was worth it.

And of course I'd rather Liverpool/United winning the league in consecutive seasons over Chelsea/Chelsea. That wasn't the scenario presented. I really don't see a dead rubber win having that much of an impact on a team's chances of winning the league the following season. I note you never answered my query about you and the escort. You don't get the rivalry, do you? It's just another 3 points to you.
 
He didn't really insult them, he was pretty honest but players like to be encouraged not given hard facts. Our squad isn't good enough to win the Champions League, we struggled under Ferguson last year but he was so good that we found a way to win games that we haven't under a merely decent manager like Moyes. I'm relieved his tenure is over but a lot of those players need clearing out. If they were so upset by what Moyes supposedly said then surely good players and good people would respond by going about proving him wrong, not illustrating his point.

It is everything he did. It wasn't just one thing. Moyes was a disaster in everything.

Football and personality.


Think about it, if many of us fans couldn't stand him, imagine how the players felt having to see his mug every damn day. GIggs couldn't stand him and he is as professional as it gets.
 
Moyes deserved everything he received from the players. He disrespected them as soon as he got here. It is easy for you guys to condemn the players, but you are not in their position. Why should a group of winners have to receive "insults" from a guy that had never won anything. Moyes is at fault for alienating his new squad.

From what I'm reading he was like a supply teacher. Sounds like he had no self-awareness at all about embarrassing himself. Did he not know that you can't just take a United group of players walking down the street, you are going to be recognised and mobbed with the potential for something bad to happen. I bet he got in a lot of shit for that. Him running around like an idiot in the training field would reinforce that he didn't have a clue about self awareness. I am surprised he is such an idiot, he seemed a clever guy at Everton.
 
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