Confirmed: Moyes sacked.

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KiD MoYeS said:
I'd bet the club and Moyes have prepared a statement. We'll hear from Moyes eventually, be interesting to to get his take on the situation.
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That's what I am waiting for. I really don't think he can have many complaints towards the club as he got much more time here than he would have anywhere else. Would still want to here his take on the situation.
 
Best wake up news I've had in a while. Rejoice!

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Nozzy said:
18 goals, playing no10, over three seasons for Chelsea, is more an indication of why the Manager many United fans wanted, offloaded him to the first decent (inflated) offer.
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That's 2 and a bit seasons (13 games) and that's only league goals you've mentioned - 33 goals in two a bit seasons for Chelsea is far more healthy. Not to mention two player of year awards.
 
Questioning Mata as a top footballer is cringey daft. No, he's not Suarez, but on his day he's easily all prem XI material. He's consistently better than Rooney, although I will grant you that when Rooney is motivated to play football he's got a higher gear that Mata.

I hope this thread doesn't devolve into casting doubts about De Gea as a keeper. Sheesh!
 
Rowem said:
Juan Mata racked up 20 goals and 29 assists in the 2012/2013 season alone.

He's obviously less about goals than a second striker because he's an attacking midfielder. He will get far more assists than those you mentioned and he will contribute more towards building attacks as opposed to finishing attacks.

He's a fantastic player. We need to bring in players who provide what he lacks. That's how you build a team.
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I was quoting his League stats, 18 league goals over three seasons & no league goals in his last 13 appearances. We can agree to disagree or, you can address my specific question about how he'd get into ANY, of SAF's successful first 11's ?

Sure a team can change it's style but Moyes has just tried that, by playing x 3 no10's - against decent opposition, like Everton, it was toothless. I'd prefer 11 complete players, who can contribute all over the pitch, like Giggs, Beckham & Keane. Mata is a luxury passenger & he'll be sold sooner or later.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I'd bet the club and Moyes have prepared a statement. We'll hear from Moyes eventually, be interesting to to get his take on the situation.
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He'll be a gentleman about it saying how he wished he got more time but results weren't good enough.

But part of me hopes he'll be a dick about it so it will be justified. Which I think it is regardless of what he says
 
One things for sure, Moyes will receive a better reception from Manchester United supporters on his return than our Everton counterparts, which is bizarre.
 
Nozzy said:
Mata is no Scoles. You see him in Central MF ??? You know Mata plays no10, Scoles started there as a kid but made it in MF, assisted by Keanes athleticism which, is a huge part of the EPL game. I'd wager Scoles could still, at 37, take Mata over 60 meters, by a clear 15m.
He's a beautiful player, with grace & vision. Interestingly, the one Manager that so many United fans wanted, sold him within months of becoming Mata's coach.
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Scholes' best individual season was behind RVN. He was outstanding and controlled games at ease.

Mata's career goals ratio is 1 in 4 and I'd hazard a guess that he's probably close to 1 in 2 for assists.

He's closer to Scholes than he is to Rooney and far more suited to a one striker system than Rooney (as the player behind that forward).

If he didn't command such a large fee this January gone, I believe he would've had much more choice over a potential destination and whilst he smells of panic buy, under the right management he could well be an outstanding buy...if used correctly.
 
If we get Van Gaal or any other manager that plays a midfield 3 like him, Mata will absolutely flourish in front of a holding and a box to box midfielder. With Van Gaal there won't be any space for a 2nd striker in the starting 11. His formation is 4-3-3.
 
Seveneric said:
So what happens when a new manager who the players don't like or respect is hired? Especially someone like Simeone whose methods are unconventional? They've already shown themselves to be capable of pulling a Chelsea and purposefully underperforming(and yes they were, some of the nonsense witnessed this season was not due solely to Moyes' incompetence) for someone they don't want. For me there really isn't much joy to be had yet till I see who comes in next. Truth be told, I'm already afraid, as I can easily see the club descending into a circus.
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That's the modern football, world - you either deal with it or fail. That's why it's important to get someone as manager who is capable of dealing with such situations.
 
Interesting piece from Ogden

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...rom-moment-he-replaced-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html

David Moyes failed to learn lessons of Bondi and was out of his depth from moment he replaced Sir Alex Ferguson
Moyes was a man who lacked the personal touch and, from the early stages, gave the impression that he found the task of managing Manchester United too big



It was an episode of farce on Bondi Beach, days into David Moyes’s reign as Manchester United manager, when it became evident that the Scot had misjudged the magnitude of the job he had walked into.

Having left behind the frenzy of Bangkok on the first-leg of United’s summer tour, Moyes had decided to take his squad on an impromptu trip to Bondi – a stroll around the beach to stretch the players’ legs after training.

On a similar summer trip to Sydney with Everton, Moyes had taken players on the same bonding session and it passed without incident.

But this was United, and while an Everton squad containing Australia international Tim Cahill went unnoticed in their club tracksuits among the surfers and sandcastles, Moyes’s new team were mobbed and besieged by supporters to the extent that the manager had to hide his players in the rooftop bar of a nightclub until security arrived to restore order.

It was akin to a supply teacher taking a group of unruly sixth formers on a day out, with the leader’s authority undermined from the outset.


United’s security staff and local police usually work in tandem when such trips are planned, but Moyes was unaware of this and a tour which had already made him uncomfortable due to the demands of sponsors and supporters alike had just delivered a stark example of the monster he now managed.

Moyes failed to heed the lesson of Bondi, however, and as his disastrous reign progressed, he somehow walked into every pitfall that lay in his path.



Initially, Moyes was too reverential, too awestruck by his new surroundings, allowing himself to be caught on a microphone saying “wow” as a five-minute montage of United’s glorious history was played to an audience at a £250-a-head dinner at Sydney’s Westin Hotel.

Moyes also hinted at inner doubts about his suitability for the job, even claiming to being fearful of what he had taken on.

“I tell you, there’s not one person who would turn around and say: ‘Taking over Manchester United, you think you can walk in there and breeze in and think you can do it easily?’ Moyes said in Sydney. “Of course not. There has to be an element of fear that comes with managing a club like Manchester United.

“You would have doubt if anybody took over this job, but in my own way, I‘ve got to say I feel it’s the right job for me at the right time and hopefully I’ll make it work.”

Where it all went wrong: Jim White outlines three mistakes that led to the departure of David Moyes from Manchester United
Gary Neville, United’s former captain, claimed in his newspaper column in December that Moyes would have to “let United change David Moyes rather than David Moyes change United”,’ but as he toiled away, the sense emerged that the manager was doing the opposite.




His first decision as manager, to remove Sir Alex Ferguson’s coaching staff and transplant his Everton backroom team at Old Trafford, was a sign of his determination to do things his way, but it was the first of many decisions which left players and staff alike at United confused and concerned. It suggested he was not prepared to step out of the comfort zone he had earned at Everton.

None of those coaches would challenge him in a way that more seasoned and successful staff would have done and it allowed Moyes to continue on his course to disaster.

Early rumblings of dissatisfaction among the players as a result of Moyes’s training methods were dismissed, yet they failed to go away.

A group of players accustomed to sharp sessions with the ball under Ferguson were now being asked to improve their fitness in much more physically demanding training routines, where lengthy, and often tedious, sessions practising shape and defensive drills replaced the possession work favoured by Ferguson.

Yet rather than produce a fitter team, one which mirrored the one Moyes produced at Everton, United appeared lethargic and increasingly incapable of passing the ball, as borne out by their abject performance at Goodison Park on Sunday.

Tactically, Moyes also left players bewildered.

Midfielders were told not to get ahead of the ball, a move which reduced their goal output and left the forwards isolated and starved of possession up front.

And when René Meulensteen, Ferguson’s former coach, returned to Old Trafford with Fulham, his claim that United were predictable and easy to play against following a 2-2 draw undermined Moyes at a time when supporters were bemoaning the approach of incessant crosses from the flanks.

On the pitch, there were few signs that Moyes was getting it right.

A 1-0 victory over Arsenal in November should have been a launch pad, but it failed to kick-start United’s season.

And a brief flurry of victories in December came to a shuddering halt against Tottenham on New Year’s Day, when a 2-1 defeat sparked a shocking run of form that led to seven defeats in 14 games, culminating in the 3-0 loss to Liverpool.

But while the alarm bells were ringing on the field, the signs off the pitch were equally worrying for those around the club.

Moyes naively allowed himself to be lulled into a conversation with an Everton supporter in a hotel bar following his former team’s victory at Old Trafford in December, when the Scot allegedly criticised the reception he received from the travelling supporters.

The conversation emerged on Twitter, forcing Moyes to defend himself against accusations that he had labelled the Everton fans a “f------ disgrace”.’ On that occasion, Moyes, a decent and approachable man, simply fell into a trap that Ferguson would never have allowed himself to be drawn towards.

Inevitably, Moyes was compared to Ferguson the manager as well as the man.

Despite Ferguson’s fearsome reputation, the Scot possessed a compassionate side and would regularly spend time chatting to club staff – from cleaners to receptionists to groundsmen – about their daily lives.

Moyes proved a distant figure, however, described by those who saw him on a daily basis as a man consumed by the job and lacking the personal touch and charisma of his predecessor.

He would be indecisive over everything from team selection to travelling arrangements, with even his programme notes being changed on numerous occasions due to his concern over the pitch of his message.

Supporters would bemoan that message – the repeated use of “hopefully”, “we will try” and “we face tough opponents” – and question why he would not deliver the bold statements expected of a Manchester United manager.

Rather than speak with the charisma of Ferguson, Ron Atkinson or Tommy Docherty, his United predecessors, Moyes instead found himself compared to the more reserved – and unsuccessful – Dave Sexton and Frank O’Farrell.

He rarely snapped in front of the media, as Ferguson often did, despite the negativity surrounding his team and his methods.

But when he addressed journalists as “s---houses” earlier this month following the publication of a letter he had written to supporters, apologising for the team’s performances, it was an outburst that highlighted the strain he was under.

That strain was evident from day one, from Bangkok to Bondi and through to his final games at Old Trafford.

A decent man and one with integrity, Moyes ultimately proved to be the wrong one for Manchester United.

The club will bounce back, but after such a haunting experience, can the same be said for David Moyes?
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The bolded part sums up Moyes for me, never seen any similarities between him and SAF personally, nice man who was just not suited to a job of this magnitude.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Those stats don't look right. Mata got 20 goals last season and 16 the season before
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In all competitions. I was quoting League only as cup games are often against lower division opposition. His 82 League games for Chelsea, yielded 18 goals. Imagine Cantona, York, Rooney, playing no10 at United & having that record?

Chelsea 2011/12 League, played 34, goals 6
2012/13 League, played 35, goals 12
2013/14 League, played 13, goals 0
 
Empire said:
The other poster made an assessment of you, I merely agreed. You also don't seem to understand should Liverpool not win it, then City will! Or Chelsea even, either way United won't be winning it thus it matters not. Unless you really wanted a non-united team to win it ;)
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In the scenario I posed, Chelsea would have won it. As for thinking Chelsea winning the title over Liverpool "matters not" to a United fan, you just don't get it do you?
 
Nozzy said:
I was quoting his League stats, 18 league goals over three seasons & no league goals in his last 13 appearances. We can agree to disagree or, you can address my specific question about how he'd get into ANY, of SAF's successful first 11's ?

Sure a team can change it's style but Moyes has just tried that, by playing x 3 no10's - against decent opposition, like Everton, it was toothless. I'd prefer 11 complete players, who can contribute all over the pitch, like Giggs, Beckham & Keane. Mata is a luxury passenger & he'll be sold sooner or later.
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You mentioned Sheringham. Mata is a much better player so there's one.
 
Nozzy said:
I was quoting his League stats, 18 league goals over three seasons & no league goals in his last 13 appearances. We can agree to disagree or, you can address my specific question about how he'd get into ANY, of SAF's successful first 11's ?

Sure a team can change it's style but Moyes has just tried that, by playing x 3 no10's - against decent opposition, like Everton, it was toothless. I'd prefer 11 complete players, who can contribute all over the pitch, like Giggs, Beckham & Keane. Mata is a luxury passenger & he'll be sold sooner or later.
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I am aware that you were quoting league stats. 18 goals in 2 full seasons is a good return for an attacking midfielder. I'm intrigued why you choose to overlook assists whilst claiming that his stats are poor.

I find it bemusing why you would ask where a number 10 would fit into SAF's 442. SAF didn't play such a way. He showed no interest in such players. He turned down the opportunity to sign Zidane because he wouldn't fit into his formation and style of play.

The answer is one number 10, two wide men and one striker. Mata is our best number 10 by a considerable distance. If he had actual midfielders of decent quality behind him, and wingers worthy of playing alongside a great player like Mata, then we will see our little Spaniard rack up 40-50 combined goals and assists per season in all competitions, as he did at Chelsea.
 
Nozzy said:
In all competitions. I was quoting League only as cup games are often against lower division opposition. His 82 League games for Chelsea, yielded 18 goals. Imagine Cantona, York, Rooney, playing no10 at United & having that record?
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Mata played a lot off of the left and right for Chelsea.

How many assists in that time ?
 
Kill 'em all said:
If we get Van Gaal or any other manager that plays a midfield 3 like him, Mata will absolutely flourish in front of a holding and a box to box midfielder. With Van Gaal there won't be any space for a 2nd striker in the starting 11. His formation is 4-3-3.
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No second striker... erm what position did muller play at bayern - or litmanen (and berkampt before him) at ajax?

He will look at the players and pick accordingly - he may well elect to play with one advanced midfielder or second striker and if he does one has to think that out of kagawa, mata and rooney somebody is going to be dissapointed to be shunted wide and somebody else probably even more dissapointed as they wont get picked but its a bit early to say what he will decide (especially if rooney is the captain as well - will he not get a crack at the position he most wants first?)
 
Kill 'em all said:
If we get Van Gaal or any other manager that plays a midfield 3 like him, Mata will absolutely flourish in front of a holding and a box to box midfielder. With Van Gaal there won't be any space for a 2nd striker in the starting 11. His formation is 4-3-3.
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Which is the formation the club should have transitioned to years ago. Bring it on!
 
Nozzy said:
So now you speak for the Moderators? Referring to my post as "absolutely nonsense", is not at all condescending?

Juan Mata is a wonderful footballer, who is a luxury in the Manchester United style of play IMO. His stats are far from outstanding.
2007–2011Valencia129(33)
2011–2014Chelsea82(18)

18 goals, playing no10, over three seasons for Chelsea, is more an indication of why the Manager many United fans wanted, offloaded him to the first decent (inflated) offer.

Name one player in the successful SAF era, (1993 to 2013) who Mata would have displaced, in the no10, second forward role? Cantona, York, Sherringham, Rooney. All these players had other attributes & made greater contributions, than Mata can offer with his limited, around the box play, making him, a luxury player.

IMO

Apologies for going somewhat off topic
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He got 12 goals and 12 assists in 31 games during the 2012/2013 season and 6 goals, 13 assists in 29 games in the 2011/2012 season. These stats are for premier league games. During that 2011/2012 season he was mostly played as a right or left attacking midfielder and not a number 10.
 
Nozzy said:
In all competitions. I was quoting League only as cup games are often against lower division opposition. His 82 League games for Chelsea, yielded 18 goals. Imagine Cantona, York, Rooney, playing no10 at United & having that record?
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Those players are all strikers or second strikers. Rooney occasionally plays no 10. Also

Cantona's scoring records (from 92 - 97) - 9, 18, 12, 14, 11
Yorkes (99-02) 18, 20, 9, 11

Not that much better.
 
Kill 'em all said:
If we get Van Gaal or any other manager that plays a midfield 3 like him, Mata will absolutely flourish in front of a holding and a box to box midfielder. With Van Gaal there won't be any space for a 2nd striker in the starting 11. His formation is 4-3-3.
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its not 4-3-3 - its just that at the moment.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/may/16/louis-van-gaal-bayern-munich

He's also gone 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 2-3-2-3 and memorably 3-3-1-3.

His view seems to be to change the formation to fit the players and the occasion.
 
This morning when I heard the news I wasn't sure what to think about it. I believed that this was because it was early and I was in my car driving to work, so my mind was more focused on manoeuvring between parked cars and speed bumps as the morning dew settled on my windshield. I hoped that by mid-afternoon I would have made my mind up over whether I felt this news was “good” or “bad”. I must have spent the best part of the morning asking myself this question, wrestling mentally within my own moral courtroom.

It’s only now that I’ve come to the realisation that the news is neither “good” nor “bad”, and trying to stick it into either category doesn’t work. The news is that David Moyes is no longer Manchester United manager. I’m saddened to hear that he has lost his job and will not be given the chance to prove himself as successor to Sir Alex, and I’m also saddened that he wasn’t able to deliver enough glimmers of hope that would have ensured he stayed on as manager.

I’m also optimistic for the future, and hopeful that United can get back on track next season – albeit with a different manager. I’m also excited to see how Giggs deals with his new role, and allowing myself a few moments of daydreaming to imagine Giggs in three years time taking United to a Champions League final.

But am I happy or sad, and is the news good or bad? For me, it’s neither - it’s simply change. Change is the only constant in life, and to split changes into two separate black-or-white categories doesn’t reflect the reality of life; that we stand here in a living world, forever shifting, just like the motion of time that pushes us forward and the turning of the earth that keeps life going on.
 
sun_tzu said:
No second striker... erm what position did muller play at bayern - or litmanen (and berkampt before him) at ajax?

He will look at the players and pick accordingly - he may well elect to play with one advanced midfielder or second striker and if he does one has to think that out of kagawa, mata and rooney somebody is going to be dissapointed to be shunted wide and somebody else probably even more dissapointed as they wont get picked but its a bit early to say what he will decide (especially if rooney is the captain as well - will he not get a crack at the position he most wants first?)
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Muller played as a wide forward. I've got no idea about Litmanen.

bishblaize said:
its not 4-3-3 - its just that at the moment.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/may/16/louis-van-gaal-bayern-munich

He's also gone 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 2-3-2-3 and memorably 3-3-1-3.

His view seems to be to change the formation to fit the players and the occasion.
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Watch the FIFA interview with van Gaal. He mentions his preference for the 4-3-3 system. He describes the 4-3-3 formation as HIS system.
 
Feeky Magee said:
In the scenario I posed, Chelsea would have won it. As for thinking Chelsea winning the title over Liverpool "matters not" to a United fan, you just don't get it do you?
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I would sooner United win. I want Ryan Giggs to finish with a 100% win record because I like him, if you want him to lose some of his games then so be it.
 
Empire said:
The other poster made an assessment of you, I merely agreed. You also don't seem to understand should Liverpool not win it, then City will! Or Chelsea even, either way United won't be winning it thus it matters not. Unless you really wanted a non-united team to win it ;)
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Terrible post. Liverpool winning it will be horrendous.
 
stevoc said:
Interesting piece from Ogden

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...rom-moment-he-replaced-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html



The bolded part sums up Moyes for me, never seen any similarities between him and SAF personally, nice man who was just not suited to a job of this magnitude.
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This is basically nailed on about everything wrong with the man! He's a good person just doing everything the wrong way. The further he's away from us the better. From today our United is back, with Giggsy restoring order. I agree totally with Robbie Salvage who just talked on the radio "Giggs is the right man and he commands the respect of players. I've been in the dressing room with him. When he speaks, people listen"

Feeling excited already and looking forward to the next game.
 
Empire said:
Of course they are not without fault. My opinion has always been I cannot hold my view to be more valuable than the board because due to my limited information my opinion would be with greater fault.

Take the new manager, I am not conducting a thorough assessment of candidates nor do I have information that the board will have therefore I would sooner respect their appointment, whoever it might be, than not.



It is clear one season without champions league football will not harm the club. They undertook an experiment, they took a calculated gamble. The board knew very well they were taking a risk, but they understood it was worth it. They would have loved to recreate Ferguson and let David grow into the role, nobody in their right mind thought he would have finished 7th!

Considering they could take the risk there was nothing wrong with doing so because if it paid off, it would have been great business wise. I'm a firm believer in taking calculated risks, sometimes they work out and other times they do not.



I'm not an expert on our financial situation and to be honest, I don't have a problem with them because I would sooner owners who don't get involved too much than an Abromovich or somebody who wants to sell the old trafford name or change our kit colours or even the club name!

Also, I don't comment on that because I do not know what Ferguson's true opinion on the matter was. We seem to be financially healthy and a £100m investment appears to be realistic therefore I do not know whether the board refused Ferguson funds or whether he was content in not spending them until the right players became available.

Our squad is not bad, Moyes under performed. A centre back, left back and two central midfielders is all we need to be competing on all fronts. Had Vidic not left, the centre back would have been less of a concern, had Patrice not shown such an obvious decline, we could have been more patient there too and Moyes got his central midfield signing wrong.
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We missed out on many top players ferguson was in for sometimes over issues of refusing to pay the agent a fee. Hazard,Moura, Sneijdergate as recently as the fiasco over Herrera who's release clause was about 3m more than we overpaid for Fellaini. Second rate players or youth prospects or bargains and you can bet Moyes appointment was partly driven at saving a buck.

Looks like the pennies finally dropped with the Mata signing and the proposed opening of the war chest and I am not saying our squad is bad, it's behind only City in terms of quality/depth but the board failed to deliver Fergusons top targets consistently and the chickens are coming home to roost.
It's all well and good telling me and half the caf that the board are in a better position to judge and we all know they are but the simple facts are it's been badly judged and here we are.

I am not in anyway defending Moyes performance it was a complete disaster on his part but there should have been someone there guiding him, somebody to turn to him and say no David it's a bad idea to sack all those experienced coaches we can't allow it.
SAF and Charlton may have chosen the guy but they aren't board members as such and the decisions after Moyes was handed the job were terrible on behalf of the management team and the board, the sackings the transfer window and the panic buying of Fellaini.

Well the worst of it is hopefully over and the chosen one is gone, let's hope we can start to move forward from here.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Scholes' best individual season was behind RVN. He was outstanding and controlled games at ease.

Mata's career goals ratio is 1 in 4 and I'd hazard a guess that he's probably close to 1 in 2 for assists.

He's closer to Scholes than he is to Rooney and far more suited to a one striker system than Rooney (as the player behind that forward).

If he didn't command such a large fee this January gone, I believe he would've had much more choice over a potential destination and whilst he smells of panic buy, under the right management he could well be an outstanding buy...if used correctly.
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Does that mean if United hadn't paid over the odds, other clubs might have show interest?

League & FA Cup stats/goals, boost his overall stats & flatter him. Chelsea - 82 league appearances & 18 goals. Nearly one in four I agree but there isn't a first 11 player, in the 20 successful SAF years, that Mata would displace - maybe via with Berbatov for a shirt but he was hardly a glowing success either. I'm not saying he is a bad player. I am claiming that IMO, he will not be a first 11 player, for very long & that the Club will cut it's losses at some point.

Scoles, was a far more versatile player than Mata could ever hope to be. Mata is a one position player & even in that role, he would not get in ahead of any of SAF's 1993 - 2013 no10's. Defensively, he is a non entity & in fact, as we saw at Goodison, he can be robbed of the ball all too easily - a liability I M O
 
Stobzilla said:
Mata played a lot off of the left and right for Chelsea.

How many assists in that time ?
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No idea. I want assists AND goals AND midfield support, form the United no10 - Mata will not give us that.

Name one SAF forward from 1993-2013, Mata would displace?
 
It's a shame to see he didn't work out for us, I mean that, I feel for the guy, but given how things have developed I think it's fair and probably the right move that he was let go. I'm not sure how the process of giving him the job was handled, but I hope the guys in charge has taken a good look at that and has a masterplan for the next guy to take over. I also hope Moyes has learned a thing or two these months, and that he can get back on track in a new manager role at a lesser club. Despite all the shit that has gone down this season, I wish him good luck, and hope he will be cheered for when/if he returns to Old Trafford.

Now, time to get serious about the future of Manchester United Football Club and leave this season behind.
 
Feeky Magee said:
In the scenario I posed, Chelsea would have won it. As for thinking Chelsea winning the title over Liverpool "matters not" to a United fan, you just don't get it do you?
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What scenario did you propose? I can't seem to find it after looking at past few pages and don't feel like searching for a long time.
 
Nozzy said:
Does that mean if United hadn't paid over the odds, other clubs might have show interest?

League & FA Cup stats/goals, boost his overall stats & flatter him. Chelsea - 82 league appearances & 18 goals. Nearly one in four I agree but there isn't a first 11 player, in the 20 successful SAF years, that Mata would displace - maybe via with Berbatov for a shirt but he was hardly a glowing success either. I'm not saying he is a bad player. I am claiming that IMO, he will not be a first 11 player, for very long & that the Club will cut it's losses at some point.

Scoles, was a far more versatile player than Mata could ever hope to be. Mata is a one position player & even in that role, he would not get in ahead of any of SAF's 1993 - 2013 no10's. Defensively, he is a non entity & in fact, as we saw at Goodison, he can be robbed of the ball all too easily - a liability I M O
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Mata is a one position player now? And League cup and FA cup games don't count.

Okay then. I need no longer discuss this with you...especially in this thread.
 
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