Colombian president calls for global legalisation of cocaine, calls it ‘no worse than whisky'
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No doubt alcohol is an evil too. But that genie is already out of the bottle. Pardon the pun.
To do the same with cocaine as a test, would invite whole industries to be built up on it. Manufacture, distribution etc. that ain’t backtracking again after that happens, no matter what effects on health etc it may show
Also worth baring in mind that alcohol was always an affordable for those lower in the food chain. Cocaine was always a more expensive pastime. If that changes then you will see the full extent of cocaine issues
Which again ignores the points I made about the possible benefits legalisation or at least decriminalisation can bring. Because we are comparing alcohol to cocaine in its current form, which means that part of its devastating effects stem from the effects of criminalisation. So if you want to make this point, you need to take the effects of criminalisation (gang violence, but quality, the mixing with other substances that make it more harmful and so on) into account. So far you haven’t engaged with these arguments. Hence why I mentioned moonshine and the prohibition.
Yes but it doesn’t make the premise that alcohol should be made illegal now any less specious. The only relevance alcohol has is to provide a context for the harms of legal drugs in a population context.
If we want a more relevant precedent look at marijuana. It’s a drug that was very recently decriminalised/legalised in most parts of the world. The consequences of that decision really does give useful context. Although, obviously, we need to take into account that marijuana is one of the safest drugs around (no lethal dose, no evidence of direct tissue toxicity etc) Whereas cocaine is an extremely toxic substance, especially in high doses.
I had probably 4 or 5 years of taking an absolute cocktail of drugs most weekends when I was a teen / early 20s and I'm on board with legalisation of quite a few drugs, but cocaine definitely isn't one of them.
It definitely does change you as a person in Kuch lower quantities than alcohol and opens doors to a world of drugs very different than what alcohol or cannabis would open.
I've not used anything in over 10 years, but had some of the best nights of my life mixing different stimulants and stuff back then. Whilst I understand the sentiment of taking the money out of gangs and drug lords hands and cleaning the drug use up to be more taking what you expect to be taking, there doesn't seem to be any way to make it safe and not lead onto other harder drugs.
I think the best place to put cocaine would be to decriminalise it, set up testing stations at clubs like they have in Germany over the years and allow those that want to put the effort into searching it out to validate what they are taking. But to make it more accessible than it already is would be the wrong move for me, and add countless hours of work onto an already crumbling NHS by people who would never have taken it, trying it and running into issues.
It definitely does change you as a person in Kuch lower quantities than alcohol and opens doors to a world of drugs very different than what alcohol or cannabis would open.
I've not used anything in over 10 years, but had some of the best nights of my life mixing different stimulants and stuff back then. Whilst I understand the sentiment of taking the money out of gangs and drug lords hands and cleaning the drug use up to be more taking what you expect to be taking, there doesn't seem to be any way to make it safe and not lead onto other harder drugs.
I think the best place to put cocaine would be to decriminalise it, set up testing stations at clubs like they have in Germany over the years and allow those that want to put the effort into searching it out to validate what they are taking. But to make it more accessible than it already is would be the wrong move for me, and add countless hours of work onto an already crumbling NHS by people who would never have taken it, trying it and running into issues.
Maybe less but hardly difficult.
The reduction in associated criminal activities is a good argument but it only really works if you decriminalise all drugs. Otherwise the criminal gangs never go away, just sell different drugs.
I assume that would be the plan possibly barring a few.
All drugs should be legalised. The fact that they're not shows how little we've grown as a society.
Try asking a mate if they know anyone and almost anyone can have some marching powder within the hour in most places in the world.
The results will be tax paid, control of supply and quality as well as programs and information against use and addiction.
Its currently easier to get a bag of coke than it is football tickets so its not like legalisation will bring it in the mainstream.
I did not engage with these points because they are are fair and I would be the last person to disagree. However, cocaine still stays an extremely high addictive and nefarious substance and no amount of cutting (or not) will change that.
I do fundamentally disagree with any attempt at treating cocaine on the same level as tobacco or alcohol (to an extent).
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Thanks for the replies some of you
Never took one myself, had marijuana and some ecstasy pills years ago. Thank goodness it wasn't legal. It's great and if it's legal I'll probably got hooked.
In most Asian countries heroin means big problem with heavy jail time and possibly death sentenced we dont even think about it. Off course there are still ways to get them but only if you're a very few person with connection.
I've had enough problem with cigarettes and e-vape i wish they just make it hard to get and be done with it.
You guys should know about the opium war in China and how opium ravages the country. It was widely available, legal, and very addictive.
Never took one myself, had marijuana and some ecstasy pills years ago. Thank goodness it wasn't legal. It's great and if it's legal I'll probably got hooked.
In most Asian countries heroin means big problem with heavy jail time and possibly death sentenced we dont even think about it. Off course there are still ways to get them but only if you're a very few person with connection.
I've had enough problem with cigarettes and e-vape i wish they just make it hard to get and be done with it.
You guys should know about the opium war in China and how opium ravages the country. It was widely available, legal, and very addictive.
If I randomly ask a mate, they will likely not know. If I ask 20 people, probably someone will know. But unless I was desperate for it, I wouldn’t do that.
It is a bit like why I do not smoke weed, but when I visited Amsterdam, I smoked weed. Or I did not drink when I was in Dubai, despite that it is possible to do do so, but it is an inconvenience and you need to search quite a lot.
If cocaine was as easy to access as tobacco and alcohol, I would have likely tried it, to experiment with. I likely would not become addicted to it, same as I did not get addicted to other things. But if lots of people do so, someone get destroyed.
I do not understand this obsession with legalizing bad stuff. Yes, tobacco and alcohol are goddamn awful, and humanity would have been much better without them. But that doesn’t mean that we should make easily accessible stuff that is even worse. Instead, we should do what we are doing, educate the new generations to not smoke and drink. Which is working quite well, albeit slowly. Teens nowadays barely smoke and drink alcohol less than my generation, which already drank and smoke less than yours.
Yep.
The obsession with legalising for me is smashing organised crime.
Well, that and my love of drugs.
Yes. Horrendous addiction problems with alcohol including a couple of medical detoxes.
Coke I could take or leave on a weekend. Amphetamine I found much more addictive
Riiiiight, that will change everything.
Legalizing, therefore lowering the price and widening the use of a drug that annhilates any kind of inhibition and perception of reality, makes you feel like the king of the world for about 20 minutes before you crash down (hard) and leaves you hungry for more, especially when combined with alcohol, seems just about right. Notwithstanding the possibility of your heart just giving out, your brain cells disintegrating at a light-speed rate, and your dick (if you have one) giving you the middle-finger and going on strike. Watch it turn you into a zombie, severing any kind of connection not only to your work colleagues but also your loved ones, shortening your lifespan by years in a matter of months. What could possibly go wrong.
Some will rightly object that alcohol represents the same danger, but then again they never saw how fast and efficiently cocaine works.
Go ahead. Hell, make crack pipes and heroin shots free and available for two ordered Big Mac menus to-go.
I'm noping out of this thread. There's only so much horseshit I can read.
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Even if smashing organized crime is a valid argument, which it is not*, it solves a problem while creating far larger problems (more people using drugs).
* The organized crime will still sell other drugs, so unless you are talking for legalizing all drugs, which IMO is crazy.
Your second point, fair enough but IMO quite selfish PoV.
Revan and Raven... I feel sorry for the dyslectics trying to follow the discussion.
I thought it was a coke addled lunatic talking to themselves
I thought it was a coke addled lunatic talking to themselves
I am talking about legalising all drugs. Pour all the money we waste on policing and locking up drug addicts into education and rehabilitation. Decriminalisation/legalisation has no link with long/medium term increases in drug abuse.
I can get any drug I want within an hour, legalisation makes zero odds to me personally with regards getting my hands on drugs. My concern is safety.
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I thought it was a coke addled lunatic talking to themselves
I thought it was a coke addled lunatic talking to themselves
Same. It’s triggering me
Edit: at the same time I’m sure it’s pretty handy to have one nasal passage instead of 2 like Daniela Westbrook. Look forward to kids growing up like that
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My man! Also thought you replied to your own post there.
Revan is my conservative alter ego.
I agree, and I do not know the exact answer at all. It is more complicated than "legalize it!" and thats it. Interaction between drugs should be counted, but I do not know why when both are mixed, one is to be blamed more than the other
1 - The whataboutery of comparing Cocaine with alcohol. Taking in account that the OP started the thread with the comparison opening the debate, is impossible not to do because is the most dangerous recreational drug legalized and we can take it as a frame of how things could work legalizing others. I personally don't consume any of them. Besides 1 or 2 beers each 2/3 months. I did have a time that I was drinking very recurrently till develop a sort of resistance to alcohol to the point to drink 1 700mm bottle of vodka and not get drunk but was never to the point to affect my life. As I said in a past post that consumption of any drug depends on the individual and quantities. And is proven that people has different addictive personalities that ranges from getting lost on drugs and get their lives destroyed and others that can be casuals for years and stop at any given point
2 - I read a couple of users here where cocaine almost destroyed their life and I have 0 doubts about it and no one denies the destruction potential than cocaine has. I am sure we could find many other stories related to cocaine, but so about alcohol
3 - the third party factor. It might be my own perception but without taking in account breaking up couples and destroying families due to the usage of both, I have my personal perception that alcohol is much more harmful than cocaine when affecting third parties like in car accidents, domestic violence and sexual assaults.And it seems that the statistics that I always been reading around backs me up. I am more than happy to be corrected
4 - The same statistics seems to proof that alcohol causes way more illness than cocaine
5a - Legalization. The first 4 points are irrelevant as is just arguments on comparison between both drugs and the argument "or both or none". Being alcohol a scourge of society maybe is true that is too late to forbid and having it forbidden would be worse. Why legalize cocaine? would that make it worse? I am of the opinion that would be better
5b - Cleaner product and controlled product. If alcohol would be forbidden and uncontrolled, greedy alcohol cartels would produce worse products. Bootlegged alcohol caused about 50 deaths and blinded more in Czech republic due to methanol just about 10 years ago. Imagine what it would happen if alcohol would be banned. The same with cocaine. I doubt that anyone here ever tried clean pure cocaine or at least seldom times. While often times is none harmful, others can cause you unwanted effects or death. With legalization this would not happen again or in a very fringe events and you could track down the seller or the buyer that cut it afterwards
5c - War on drugs. Only in Mexico, since 2006 is estimated that around close to 500k people died because the war on drugs. Since 1999, "only" less than 30k died for overdose. Sure there are more overdoses in the world, but I am sure than not as much to cover the 500k just in Mexico. And then there is the war in drugs in Colombia and smaller countries like Peru, Bolivia, El Salvador and also the US. Violence from cartels had only get worse along the years. Cocains consumption cause other miseries than death. So do cartels in a much bigger scale
5d - Crime. There are thousands of inmates for drug related charges. Legalizing would stop that. It is proven that any first offender for drug related charges has a high chance to relapse on crime because well...there are among criminals inside and the stigma of being an ex con gives them narrower options and they get out with a good networking on crime. Legalizing it would stop this part of the cycle and definitely definitely definitely decriminalizing the use of any drug should be a MUST that should not be a debate in any sensible society though I understand that in US there is little incentive as many prisons are a lucrative private business of cheap slavery like work force
5e - Taxes. Instead of spending billions on border patrols, police fighting crimes, spending on prisons (besides the private business prisons) and others, the government would do a killing in taxes as it does with alcohol (billions a year) that would be able to be invested in the health problems that the drug causes and also, high prices would control early entry consumption (risk to go to the black market but it would be much reduced) and quantity consumption as is being proven in alcohol and specially tobacco
This is obviously an opinion, based on read numbers, assumptions and personal experience biases, but there is a big truth and is that what is it done is not working and it is getting worse and doubling down doesn't seem to work so the only alternative that I see is legalizing. If there is another model, I genuinely would like to hear it
2 - I read a couple of users here where cocaine almost destroyed their life and I have 0 doubts about it and no one denies the destruction potential than cocaine has. I am sure we could find many other stories related to cocaine, but so about alcohol
3 - the third party factor. It might be my own perception but without taking in account breaking up couples and destroying families due to the usage of both, I have my personal perception that alcohol is much more harmful than cocaine when affecting third parties like in car accidents, domestic violence and sexual assaults.And it seems that the statistics that I always been reading around backs me up. I am more than happy to be corrected
4 - The same statistics seems to proof that alcohol causes way more illness than cocaine
5a - Legalization. The first 4 points are irrelevant as is just arguments on comparison between both drugs and the argument "or both or none". Being alcohol a scourge of society maybe is true that is too late to forbid and having it forbidden would be worse. Why legalize cocaine? would that make it worse? I am of the opinion that would be better
5b - Cleaner product and controlled product. If alcohol would be forbidden and uncontrolled, greedy alcohol cartels would produce worse products. Bootlegged alcohol caused about 50 deaths and blinded more in Czech republic due to methanol just about 10 years ago. Imagine what it would happen if alcohol would be banned. The same with cocaine. I doubt that anyone here ever tried clean pure cocaine or at least seldom times. While often times is none harmful, others can cause you unwanted effects or death. With legalization this would not happen again or in a very fringe events and you could track down the seller or the buyer that cut it afterwards
5c - War on drugs. Only in Mexico, since 2006 is estimated that around close to 500k people died because the war on drugs. Since 1999, "only" less than 30k died for overdose. Sure there are more overdoses in the world, but I am sure than not as much to cover the 500k just in Mexico. And then there is the war in drugs in Colombia and smaller countries like Peru, Bolivia, El Salvador and also the US. Violence from cartels had only get worse along the years. Cocains consumption cause other miseries than death. So do cartels in a much bigger scale
5d - Crime. There are thousands of inmates for drug related charges. Legalizing would stop that. It is proven that any first offender for drug related charges has a high chance to relapse on crime because well...there are among criminals inside and the stigma of being an ex con gives them narrower options and they get out with a good networking on crime. Legalizing it would stop this part of the cycle and definitely definitely definitely decriminalizing the use of any drug should be a MUST that should not be a debate in any sensible society though I understand that in US there is little incentive as many prisons are a lucrative private business of cheap slavery like work force
5e - Taxes. Instead of spending billions on border patrols, police fighting crimes, spending on prisons (besides the private business prisons) and others, the government would do a killing in taxes as it does with alcohol (billions a year) that would be able to be invested in the health problems that the drug causes and also, high prices would control early entry consumption (risk to go to the black market but it would be much reduced) and quantity consumption as is being proven in alcohol and specially tobacco
This is obviously an opinion, based on read numbers, assumptions and personal experience biases, but there is a big truth and is that what is it done is not working and it is getting worse and doubling down doesn't seem to work so the only alternative that I see is legalizing. If there is another model, I genuinely would like to hear it
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Good post.
half a million people died due to the war on drugs? That's almost hard to believe
This is one of the multiple links that you can google
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-car-bomb-clashes-deaths-cartel-violence/
Still. even if it would be a 10% of that number, would be almost double than cocaine overdoses in US in 7 years more
Thanks, yeah I wasn't doubting you I was just really shocked at how high it was
it's a decent argument for decriminalisation
but I'm not sure how feasible that is without making them all legal
True. Cartels are also entrenched with other drugs but the cartel networks that now controls heroine and fentanyl and wipe out the competition, was created on the shoulders of cocaine. If cocaine was legalized sooner, cartels power would never reach the level of power that they have now. But cocaine stills is the main drug income (they have plenty of legal incomes nowadays) of the cartels
Again, any solution is not simple and I don't pretend to have it, but is certain that what is being done is not working
That is because alcohol is legal, which makes it automatically more popular than other drugs. 99/100 people that have drank alcohol have never done cocaine.
So if 99 people are drinking alcohol and no cocaine, but only 1 person is doing cocaine, then what do you think the chances are that the 99 people are more likely be harmed vs 1 person being harmed?
Alcohol being legal is always going to have more people that have been harmed, the one that is legal is easier to obtain and people are scared to break the law for a Class A drug thus never doing it.
If you check my recent posts I spent some time in South America in 2002 and by far the best coke I ever had (and I’ve had a lot from between 20-35 years old) was from the prison in la Paz.
Clearly completely pure and absolutely incredible. Didn’t feel too bad the day after either. I’m not a medical person but from my experience if it’s very pure it’s not as bad as snorting all sorts of washing powder and chalk along with the good stuff.
Legalisation would sort that out.
The following things should be banned
Alcohol
All drugs
Smoking
Alcohol
All drugs
Smoking
Almost every pub in the UK will give you an idea.