Colombian president calls for global legalisation of cocaine, calls it ‘no worse than whisky'

[golden_blunder]

From LibertyHouse, a leading drug & alcohol treatment centre in the U.K.

https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/

Cocaine is generally considered worse than alcohol due to its immediate and severe health risks, such as heart attacks and strokes, and its highly addictive nature, which can lead to rapid physical and psychological deterioration. While alcohol poses significant long-term dangers, like liver disease and addiction, its effects typically accumulate over time. Cocaine’s potential for sudden fatal consequences, even with limited use, and its severe impact on mental health make it more dangerous in direct comparison. Therefore, while both substances are harmful, cocaine is more acutely dangerous than alcohol.

 

[Bert_]

From LibertyHouse, a leading drug & alcohol treatment centre in the U.K.

https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/

Not to downplay the dangerousness of cocaine abuse, but they're a profit seeking rehab clinic. Not a scientific journal.

 

[Bert_]

Criminalise alcohol (prohibition style) and re-look at these "danger" comparisons. A bottle of 90%+ ethanol, mixed with whatever the dealer can get hold off is pretty dangerous.

 

[langster]

If you were as good at music as you are with words, I bet your sets were ace.

Are*

I'm still DJing. Just not as much due to work and family commitments.

I got told the last time I played I was better than Andy C Although a massive compliment I can't agree. I mean I'm good, but I'm not THAT good. Certainly not technically anyway. I must admit I always get praised and play with passion and feeling. I have never gone out with a set planned no matter the genre. Always go the way the crowd wants at first then guide them to what I want them to hear and it always goes down well. I really wish I had the confidence in myself to do it when I was younger but the truth is, as much as I love being a DJ, I absolutely fecking love listening to others too. The dancing and losing yourself in the music has never and hopefully will never get old.

Anyway, without detailing further it's time for bed as I've got work at 8am.

Just have to say some great posts and points made by @Red in STL

 

[Salt Bailly]

One guy sold his grandma's house..

 

[fen4e]

I believe in humanity and am certain one day psychedelics will be legal. As pointed out they already are the least harmful.
I was lucky enough to live with some of the most talented and successful poker players on earth. Some would often organize acid trips at the beach. Others would regularly go to Ayahuasca gatherings. With the acid was always great vibes (with an occasional bad trip here and there);
If taken at the right time, with the right people and at the right place, it could become a pleasant experience with a long term effect unlike all the other drugs.
My acid trip with them in Tulum was a real eye opener. It definitely changed the way I look at life and drugs in general.
Still haven't tried the Ayahuasca, though.

There are also quite a few good documentaries on Netflix about psychedelics.

 

[Wibble]

From LibertyHouse, a leading drug & alcohol treatment centre in the U.K.

https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/

But given how easy to get it is and how widely it is used I'd rather we control quality and supply while gaining revenue that is hopefully mostly spent on harm minimisation while decimation organised crime. Banning it just hasn't worked.

 

[4bars]

From LibertyHouse, a leading drug & alcohol treatment centre in the U.K.

https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/

You just went to google and picked the link that fits your narrative. Please don't take it as an attack. I do the same. This kind of links can be found both ways. Like this

https://www.reuters.com/article/bus...hol-worse-than-crack-or-heroin-idUSTRE6A000O/

And the organizations on that link are frankly more important and independent and it was published in the lancet

Here is a very granular comprehensive graph

You personal experience with cocaine gives you an inside to the drug that not many people have, but it biases you a lot compared to other drugs and alocohol

And in the end, as I said before, comparisons are irrelevant. Being worse or less than alcohol, the quid of the question is if legalization would improve the harm that causes at all levels if situation with cocaine alone gets better or worse who care how relatively scores compared to Alcohol?

Here is the full article

https://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/News stories/dnutt-lancet-011110.pdf

 

[Tarrou]

I believe in humanity and am certain one day psychedelics will be legal. As pointed out they already are the least harmful.
I was lucky enough to live with some of the most talented and successful poker players on earth. Some would often organize acid trips at the beach. Others would regularly go to Ayahuasca gatherings. With the acid was always great vibes (with an occasional bad trip here and there);
If taken at the right time, with the right people and at the right place, it could become a pleasant experience with a long term effect unlike all the other drugs.
My acid trip with them in Tulum was a real eye opener. It definitely changed the way I look at life and drugs in general.
Still haven't tried the Ayahuasca, though.

There are also quite a few good documentaries on Netflix about psychedelics.

Funnily enough I used to be a poker player and I'm quite into psychedelics too, I guess we have a lot of spare time for this sort of thing

If I'm in Thailand I'll do about one mushroom trip per month, you can just buy them in the weed stores here so it's easy to get hold of quality stuff.

Obviously you have to be careful with any brain-altering drug. Taking anything psychotropic can go very badly if you're in the wrong head-space. It can be incredibly helpful with meditation and mental health if done right though.

I've been building up to doing an Ayahuasca trip as well (related to unhealed trauma I'm working on), but want to get my body in really good mental and physical shape before I take that step. Though, I get so much out of the mushroom experiences, maybe it's not really needed.

My therapist does retreats to Portugal where they work with psilocybin and healing patients trauma, it's a fascinating field of study.

 

[Gehrman]

Dunno about purity and all but im meeting one young person after another struggling with cocaine addiction. On the other hand having a snort of snow for dessert legally sounds seductively refreshing.

 

[horsechoker]

The following things should be banned

Alcohol
All drugs
Smoking

Be prepared for life to be incredibly dull unless shagging becomes easier

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Re accessibility
Yes, if you know who to ask or where to go you can get your hands on any drug. However make it more accessible, imagine cocaine shops like vape shops. There will be young lads hanging outside “hey mister can you buy us some?”. They can do that now outside off-licenses and could perhaps lead to being an alcoholic in later life whereas the other path leads to harder drugs.

Sure, it would probably marginally increase availability but in practice, I think that number would just be a rounding error and not enough to override all the positive benefits of treating drugs as a health issue not a criminal issue.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

This thread really makes me want to go get a bottle of Jameson and give my dealer a text

 

[golden_blunder]

I’m sure the illegal supply will just get cut with god knows what, so that it can still be supplied on the street cheaper to Joe blogs. Only the police won’t be able to do anything to Joe blogs because it’s legal

 

[Raven]

I’m sure the illegal supply will just get cut with god knows what, so that it can still be supplied on the street cheaper to Joe blogs. Only the police won’t be able to do anything to Joe blogs because it’s legal

That's why decriminalization is only really a step in the right direction. Full legalisation is what we need if we want to end the criminals involved and an actual properly health led approach to addiction.

 

[Raven]

Haha yes I remember him saying that too. I think that's what provoked the response from Leah Betts parents who obviously were upset about her daughters death. Sadly their grief and refusal to accept it was a very tragic accident meant they went hell bent on a rage against the drug. Understandable, but completely misjudged IMHO.

I remember back in the early 90's when exstacy first became a thing Roger Cook from the Cook Report did one of his TV specials after claims in The Sun (of course it was) that it was 'Easier to get an E than a cream tea' in Torbay. This was part of the Government backed and media led attack on raves and ravers led by Maggie Thatcher as part of her fecking fun vacuum Criminal Justice Act that only resulted in the birth of large legal festivals and more clubs holding events. fecking laughable really.

The absolute best part is as part of his show he held a rave at a local car park in Brixham it was all funded by ITV. We all went and everyone and I mean everyone there was absolutely fecking off their tits. The point of the rave was to show people could enjoy music without drugs. They paid for a few DJ's and gave out leaflets and even 12" records to the crowd. Surprisingly the rave was absent from the show he aired on TV Not sure why that was.

100% it was misjudged but like you say, difficult to blame parents who've lost a child and have swallowed a lifetime worth of anti drug propaganda.

Even the lawmakers don't believe in their policies for the most part. The tories were having lavish coke parties all over the place, including parliament while passing laws to further feck addicts. It's a big propaganda tool for right wingers to remain in power.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I’m sure the illegal supply will just get cut with god knows what, so that it can still be supplied on the street cheaper to Joe blogs. Only the police won’t be able to do anything to Joe blogs because it’s legal

If you widen the supply and control the quality there's no profitability in the illicit trade. All drugs are addictive and there's no two ways about it and as such alcohol is also a drug.

Not everyone is addicted to alcohol and drugs making availability a complete non issue.

Legalisation of marijuana across the world has seen a small rise in use and a huge reduction in crime obviously but especially violence which was related to trafficking and in addition has brought in billions in tax.

 

[Catt]

Don't forget the nasal damage that would occur

 

[langster]

All drugs are addictive

I agree with the rest of what you said but that comment is absolutely not true . Not all drugs are addictive. Some are physically addictive, some are mentally addictive, some can be both but also some are not addictive at all, not if they are used in moderation. Of course as with anything that causes changes in brain chemistry and release of chemicals can be addictive. Sex, gambling, extreme sports etc

Those things are more down to people with compulsive behavioural conditions being the issue rather than the drugs or activities themselves.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I agree with the rest of what you said but that comment is absolutely not true . Not all drugs are addictive. Some are physically addictive, some are mentally addictive, some can be both but also some are not addictive at all, not if they are used in moderation. Of course as with anything that causes changes in brain chemistry and release of chemicals can be addictive. Sex, gambling, extreme sports etc

Those things are more down to people with compulsive behavioural conditions being the issue rather than the drugs or activities themselves.

Unfortunately you are wrong and it is not a matter of opinion.

Maybe what you're trying to say is that some drugs have a very high dependency and addiction risk and some do not but virtually anything can be abused just like you say and I agree with that. The conclusion still is that all drugs are indeed addictive, along with other things and that happens because your body creates both tolerance and dependency to the changes in chemical reaction that they bring in your brain.

Despite all drugs having different toxicities, they are ultimately all harmful but because we don't live in a world of rainbow farting unicorns we have to live with them too so why not make them safer and rake the tax in where they are consumed rather than wherever the drug lords choose to spend their money.

 

[4bars]

Unfortunately you are wrong and it is not a matter of opinion.

Maybe what you're trying to say is that some drugs have a very high dependency and addiction risk and some do not but virtually anything can be abused just like you say and I agree with that. The conclusion still is that all drugs are indeed addictive, along with other things and that happens because your body creates both tolerance and dependency to the changes in chemical reaction that they bring in your brain.

Despite all drugs having different toxicities, they are ultimately all harmful but because we don't live in a world of rainbow farting unicorns we have to live with them too so why not make them safer and rake the tax in where they are consumed rather than wherever the drug lords choose to spend their money.

It might be a matter of semantics but there are several drugs that are not considered addictive and physically you can't get addicted. This is widely in certain drugs from the psychedelic family for example. At a psychological level can be, like many other things like to people, food, gamble and others

 

[langster]

Unfortunately you are wrong and it is not a matter of opinion.

Maybe what you're trying to say is that some drugs have a very high dependency and addiction risk and some do not but virtually anything can be abused just like you say and I agree with that. The conclusion still is that all drugs are indeed addictive, along with other things and that happens because your body creates both tolerance and dependency to the changes in chemical reaction that they bring in your brain.

Despite all drugs having different toxicities, they are ultimately all harmful but because we don't live in a world of rainbow farting unicorns we have to live with them too so why not make them safer and rake the tax in where they are consumed rather than wherever the drug lords choose to spend their money.

I know what I was saying and I'm not wrong. Go get addicted to mushrooms or LSD. You would need to do ridiculous amounts continually for them to even have any effect let alone replicate the effects of the first days. So no, they are not addictive but I can:t be arsed arguing semantics, especially nott when alcohol is extremely addictive and destructive and by multiples in comparison to mushrooms and LSD and even ecstacy for that matter.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I know what I was saying and I'm not wrong. Go get addicted to mushrooms or LSD. You would need to do ridiculous amounts continually for them to even have any effect let alone replicate the effects of the first days. So no, they are not addictive but I can:t be arsed arguing semantics, especially nott when alcohol is extremely addictive and destructive and by multiples in comparison to mushrooms and LSD and even ecstacy for that matter.

Rehabs has a specific program for people addicted to LSD so you can't say it's not addictive.

Addiction is not just physical, it's also psychological just like gambling which is what LSD and other psychedelics can do.

Anyways let's not get sidetracked.

 

[4bars]

Rehabs has a specific program for people addicted to LSD so you can't say it's not addictive.

Addiction is not just physical, it's also psychological just like gambling which is what LSD and other psychedelics can do.

Anyways let's not get sidetracked.

You are lost in semantics. LSD doesn't physically makes you want to consume more LSD. There is no physical withdrawal

You can get psychologically addicted to virtually anything: internet, gaming, gambling, food, to a person and a big etc

 

[Florida Man]

This thread really makes me want to go get a bottle of Jameson and give my dealer a text

Do you like Redbreast?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Rehabs has a specific program for people addicted to LSD so you can't say it's not addictive.

Addiction is not just physical, it's also psychological just like gambling which is what LSD and other psychedelics can do.

Anyways let's not get sidetracked.

Langster and 4bars already explained this but it bears emphasizing. The human mind-body can create biochemical reward systems that can literally make anything "addictive" under the right (or wrong) conditions. People can get addicted to biting their nails, for example, but that doesn't mean that the act of biting your nails itself is addictive; in the sense that just because you decide to bite your nails, you won't just get addicted to it - which is very different to actual physically addictive substances. In biological terms, something is not addictive if the substance itself does not externally add physically addictive properties, like tobacco, alcohol, opiates.

 

[langster]

Langster and 4bars already explained this but it bears emphasizing. The human mind-body can create biochemical reward systems that can literally make anything "addictive" under the right (or wrong) conditions. People can get addicted to biting their nails, for example, but that doesn't mean that the act of biting your nails itself is addictive; in the sense that just because you decide to bite your nails, you won't just get addicted to it - which is very different to actual physically addictive substances. In biological terms, something is not addictive if the substance itself does not externally add physically addictive properties, like tobacco, alcohol, opiates.

I don't think I've ever seen it explained as well, anywhere.

Extremely well put.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Langster and 4bars already explained this but it bears emphasizing. The human mind-body can create biochemical reward systems that can literally make anything "addictive" under the right (or wrong) conditions. People can get addicted to biting their nails, for example, but that doesn't mean that the act of biting your nails itself is addictive; in the sense that just because you decide to bite your nails, you won't just get addicted to it - which is very different to actual physically addictive substances. In biological terms, something is not addictive if the substance itself does not externally add physically addictive properties, like tobacco, alcohol, opiates.

Yeah, good post.

From a physiological point of view you can think of addictive substances as those that have dedicated receptors they bind to. And the more you take the more receptors you express, so if you suddenly stop you get a distinct physical reaction from all those extra receptors not getting the hits they’re expecting. That causes a physical withdrawal response. And it can be so severe it can cause seizures, or even kill you. Alcohol probably the most extreme version of this, opiate withdrawal much less severe, despite what Trainspotting would have us believe.

With addictions to biting your nails, or other obviously non physiological addictions like gambling, it’s common pathways that’s being triggered. And you’re not relying on one specific substance to scratch that itch. Which is why you can have addictive personalities, where people get easily addicted to all sorts of stuff. But you won’t ever get those same physical withdrawal symptoms you get from alcohol or opiates. Weed and psychedelics would fit in this category. You can definitely get addicted but there’s no physiological reason for it. The addiction is purely psychological.