It did not stop Phil Foden
Cole Palmer | Chelsea Player
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At least we can agree on this
Though he might play for us one day but the 2033 Chelsea contract changed that opinion.
True, that's another one....must be some kind of new English elite player status thing.
City don't rely on Doku to any great extent, do they?! He's been largely average for them since joining.
Initially he was a big creator for them so first half of last season.
He's certainly not having the same impact this season so thats fair
Doku probably has the second worst technique in the squad after walker. Strong dribbler and good body movement but average touch and hugely inconsistent in terms of kicking a ball.
Doku offers something different than what City have...at least in theory. He is more willing to take on opponents but he lacks the abiity to drive to the line and often ends up turning back. I feel he gets kinda stuck on what to do next when he faces a well organized defense. His final ball isn't all that great either. I suspect City will give e up on him after this season unless he finds some more confidence.
I mean, Barcelona have not actually been punished for cheating, so your ridiculous and frankly comical hatred falls on deaf ears. There's also the small issue of the fact that FC Barcelona have absolutely nothing to do with Cole Palmer, and are in fact being used as a not too subtle vehicle for you to call me arrogant and pretentious. You use the framework of the 'typical Barca fan', but of course, no such thing exists, as the club has literally millions of fans around the world with very differing opinions.
But thems the breaks, I guess.
Simply because Barcelona haven't been punished for cheating doesn't mean that they haven't cheated, but I guess that you are simply comfortable ignoring that side of the club's behaviour. 'Them's the breaks, I guess'.
I used your sneering dismissal of English players as technically deficient as evidence of your arrogance. And yes, I do think that your obsession with technical 'wizards' is in line with the Barcelona fanbase's reputation for having one of the most significant (and unwarranted) superiority complexes in football.
Met 2 Spaniards yesterday who legit think his name is Cold Palmer due to his celebration
Well that was a silly take, wasn't it? Because I didn't 'sneerily dismiss the technique of English players'. Perhaps read what I said. England do not produce players with incredible technique on a regular basis. That is just a fact. That is not the same as saying they do not produce good or great players. So when one comes along who is even technically very good (as opposed to great), they tend to get overrated. This is not hard.
The later part of your post is also prejudiced and reductive, but what you might be alluding to is the fact that Barca fans have had the privilege of watching players with great technique perhaps more than any other club. I'd put Barca's list of geniuses up against aanybody's. If that offends you, I don't particularly care. I'm not gonna be amazed by Palmer just because you want me to be.
I find it odd you cannot accept that England has always been technically deficient compared to the top level.
Not a silly take, you did have a superior sneer about the technical level of English players. In fact, that seems a default setting for you - I guess that's very much in keeping with Barca's laughable 'mes qué un club' ethos of exceptionalism.
I'm not asking you to be amazed by Palmer, I'm simply stating that he is a very technical player.
I find it odd that you're getting involved...
Just a childish post. Your withering hatred of Barcelona and Barcelona fans has got nothing to do with me, my statements, or with Cole Palmer. As if Barca fans are the only fans who think their club is special. Just an asinine position to take.
On Palmer (what this thread is about, in case you had forgotten), I would describe his technique as good, but not great. That's the long and short of it. I'll be interested to see how his career develops.
I don't hate Barcelona (it's a beautiful city). I can't stand the club, storied though it is, for many reasons. I also didn't say that Barca fans were the only fans to think their club is special - the whole concept of fandom is predicated upon the idea that a club is special to the fan. Barca, though, demonstrate a staggering level of entitlement, despite some of the shady parts of their past (and present) while still having the gall to paint themselves as 'mes que un club'.
You're right though, all of this is off-topic. Though I would say that you dragged things that way by expanding conversation around Palmer's technique to say that:
'all the English players that come along that are supposed to be tekkers wizards are overrated (cf also Phil Foden). Largely because England seems incapable of producing the genuine article in that respect.'
Fixed your opening statement.
ffs I was trying to offer the tiniest olive branch!So if you disagree with the part of my post that you quoted, address that. Don't start talking about Barca and Barca fans, because that has no relevance whatsoever.
Speaking about Barca and Barca fans as I did was in direct response to you expanding the topic and generalizing about English players' technical deficiencies, given that your comments are borne in large part from the sense of superiority I mentioned.
It's a public discussion.
I didn't expand the topic as you well know. I was talking about Cole Palmer. If you dispute what I said, challenge it - though I'm not exactly sure what you would challenge it with.
Don't continue to talk utter BS about some 'sense of superiority', because a fan of any club could make the comments I've just made.
'Didn't expand the topic...I was talking about Cole Palmer'
Here's what you said:
'all the English players that come along that are supposed to be tekkers wizards are overrated (cf also Phil Foden). Largely because England seems incapable of producing the genuine article in that respect'
To be even clearer for you:
'Didn't expand the topic...I was talking about Cole Palmer'
'all the English players that come along that are supposed to be tekkers wizards are overrated (cf also Phil Foden). Largely because England seems incapable of producing the genuine article in that respect'
So, to walk you through it, you expanded the discussion from Palmer alone to all English players.
Not to derail the thread any further but why is technique equated to close control and working in tight spaces? For example, Gerrard shooting technique is superior to Iniesta. Rooney vs Villa for example is an interesting one. Despite Rooney being a better passer, and a better striker of the ball, he is by some considered technically inferior. And and Scholes is up there in what the La Masia academy value. Bettered only arguably by Xavi and Iniesta since I started watching football . I’m intentionally excluding Messi because he is Messi
Because you will have way more time to put your great close control, ball retention and pressure resistance skills in use, as midfielder, than your shoot skills and, therefore, the former is more relevant? In addition, ball manipulation is a more sophisticated kind of technique; the difference between a great and an average user of that is much more notable than it is in the case of ball hitting. You can find Iniesta hitting some rockets, but good luck searching for insane ball control and tight dribbling from Gerrard.
And I disagree that Rooney was a better striker of the ball than Villa. Maybe he was more acrobatic, but he definitely wasn't more lethal and consistent with his shots. To me, it sounds like saying that Ibrahimovic was a better hitter of the ball than Messi.
Can you explain what you mean by this?
Appreciate the effort, but this is ultimately a failed and desperate post. I talked about Cole Palmer, an English player, in the context of English players, and the overrating of said players of a particular type. That is on topic. You are actually allowed to reference other, related things when talking about a subject.
You talked about 'the air of superiority' of Barca fans (in order to aim weak ad hominem attacks at me), and the 'corruption' of Barca as a club. That is off topic.
I think we're done here. No point in wasting any more time.
You just said you didn't expand the topic, I've shown that you did (and you've even demonstrated it yourself in this post). Your generalizations about English players were indicative of a broader attitude of superiority among many Barcelona fans, so I responded to that.
You're claiming not to drag things off topic but the topic was Cole Palmer. You then said:
'all the English players that come along that are supposed to be tekkers wizards are overrated (cf also Phil Foden). Largely because England seems incapable of producing the genuine article in that respect', which moves the 'topic' from Palmer to 'all the English players that come along' amd whether England truly are 'incapable of producing the genuine article in that respect'. If you want to stick to talking about Cole Palmer, then I suggest you stick to talking about Cole Palmer.
Where has the "England don't produce technically gifted players" come from?
There's different kind of technique -
None of the Spanish maestro's of the late 00's, 10's, could ever pass/cross a ball like Beckham with his unique and ridiculous technique. Sure, his first touch and dribbling isn't as incredible as those Spanish guys but technique varies.
Also, what separated the likes of Busquets, Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva were their physical talents as opposed to purely their technique. All of them barring Busquets were incredible on the turn / half turn and had excellent balance and agility. It's to no surprise that most of them were on the shorter side with a lower centre of gravity.
Only Busquets in that list was almost purely technique based and even he was very good on the half turns.
There were a lot of footballers who had the aboves passing range (Carrick is the perfect example) but were not on their level because of their lack of physical attributes. Carrick was not press resistant in comparison because he had a high centre of gravity with meh agility and balance therefore couldn't elevate his game to the next level.
Honestly, if you look at the current landscape, England have one of the most technical squads in the world. Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Grealish, Stones, Palmer, Trent are some of the most technical players in the world in their respective positions.
There's different kind of technique -
None of the Spanish maestro's of the late 00's, 10's, could ever pass/cross a ball like Beckham with his unique and ridiculous technique. Sure, his first touch and dribbling isn't as incredible as those Spanish guys but technique varies.
Also, what separated the likes of Busquets, Xavi, Alonso, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva were their physical talents as opposed to purely their technique. All of them barring Busquets were incredible on the turn / half turn and had excellent balance and agility. It's to no surprise that most of them were on the shorter side with a lower centre of gravity.
Only Busquets in that list was almost purely technique based and even he was very good on the half turns.
There were a lot of footballers who had the aboves passing range (Carrick is the perfect example) but were not on their level because of their lack of physical attributes. Carrick was not press resistant in comparison because he had a high centre of gravity with meh agility and balance therefore couldn't elevate his game to the next level.
Honestly, if you look at the current landscape, England have one of the most technical squads in the world. Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Grealish, Stones, Palmer, Trent are some of the most technical players in the world in their respective positions.
This is the stupidest statement I have ever read on here, and that is saying something. Putting you on ignore to stop the descent into Nonsenseville.
I really think technically we are nowhere near Spain.
I do think the poster raises an interesting point though. Often the word 'technique' gets thrown around very broadly, essentially to stand in for whatever skillset the person using it privileges. Often it seems to be a stand in for things like close control, the ability to operate in tight spaces etc but very rarely gets used for tackling technique, for instance, or sprinting technique, or even shooting technique. I think that's what I find frustrating about dismissing certain players as 'not as technical', when what folks usually mean is that those players aren't as 'technical' within a certain, fairly arbitrary and limited, set of skills. To paraphrase the other poster, I think that saying England don't produce technical players is unhelpfully vague and overlooks a whole suite of other actions which require technique as well.
Because those skills are the most important and nearly always reflect on other skills.
I think that's a pretty subjective statement, to be honest. Regardless, though, it doesn't change the fact that 'technique' is too broad a term to refer exclusively to things that players like Iniesta and David Silva were good at
Short diminutive players are way too overrated for their "technique" by Football fans.
Technique isn't just close control and body feints in tight spaces.
Technique includes touch, shooting, passing, crossing too. English players like Beckham and Trent excel in many of these technical attributes, way more than the Spanish technicians.
Technique isn't just close control and body feints in tight spaces.
Technique includes touch, shooting, passing, crossing too. English players like Beckham and Trent excel in many of these technical attributes, way more than the Spanish technicians.
This, there are loads of players who have the same amazing first touch and close control as the Spanish guys, but just don't have the agility, mobility or balance to dance around in those tight spaces like those short Spanish midfielders could.
If you want Man Utd players who are examples of this: Berbatov, Ibrahimovic, Carrick.
Most of the Brazilians whose technique is lauded (e.g. Ronaldinho) are not short or diminutive. This is not about England v Spain, it was pushed that way by someone in this thread who has got a bee in his bonnet about Barca.
For example, do you think Palmer's technical ability is comparable to Neymar's?