Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[sglowrider]

Feck me. This is how big we are. A fecking chef left made it to the news. What's next? Tea lady resign? Or the gardener?

They have probably been sacked.

 

[Garethw]

Why? We have never needed to be a version of City or Chelsea, the money is there if it's just used properly.

I honestly think that they will load the club with even more debt (for the stadium) cut back on as much expense as possible (as we are already seeing) and will spend the bare minimum.

All of this in the hope of inflating the clubs value for a profit based sale. Talk of this being some kind of passion project for Ratcliffe is utter bollocks.

 

[Crostien]

I honestly think that they will load the club with even more debt (for the stadium) cut back on as much expense as possible (as we are already seeing) and will spend the bare minimum.

All of this in the hope of inflating the clubs value for a profit based sale. Talk of this being some kind of passion project for Ratcliffe is utter bollocks.

Though their own mismanagement is a serious concern, I doubt they want the club to fail as such. It works better for Ineos and the Glazers if the club is a success.

Relegation for us is a mere trifle. A popcorn fart. Embarrassing and worthy of lurid EXCLUSIVE headlines, sure, but nothing terminal.

It's like Saracens being docked 35 points, Mexico being disqualified from the WC qualifiers or John Terry's disabled parking caper. We'd get promoted within a season, two max, and start pooling our resources much better, with a series of underperforming eejits offloaded and young whippersnappers blooded efficiently.

Plus, the away matches would be fecking glorious. Millwall away?

Please.

 

[RoyH1]

For all of INEOS big arm movements they haven’t shown anything that shows progress in the football side of things. We cannot identify and develop talent. Firing the tea lady and raising ticket prices won’t fix that

 

[sglowrider]

I don’t know how people have come to this conclusion. You have a club being run badly for over a decade, new guys show up and make changes to improve things. Sure it isn’t going well but changes take time.

The club has been left in a mess and needed massive changes. If it were allowed to have continued like it was we would be in a far worse situation

But you have INEOS who don't exactly have a sparkling history of success -- never mind a record of turn around underperforming clubs into champions.

 

[Garethw]

Though their own mismanagement is a serious concern, I doubt they want the club to fail as such. It works better for Ineos and the Glazers if the club is a success.

Relegation for us is a mere trifle. It's like Saracens being docked 35 points, Mexico being disqualified from the WC qualifiers or John Terry's disabled parking caper.

We'd likely get promoted and a trimmed squad, shorn of 375 per week types and

Relegation would probably be a good thing for the club right now. A full reset and hopefully a full sale by the Glazers.

I can’t believe I’m even having to think about this.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I honestly think that they will load the club with even more debt (for the stadium) cut back on as much expense as possible (as we are already seeing) and will spend the bare minimum.

All of this in the hope of inflating the clubs value for a profit based sale. Talk of this being some kind of passion project for Ratcliffe is utter bollocks.

Why would they do that? SJR is getting on now, he has not bought United to get any richer, or to flip it for a profit in 5 years time. He could have bought something alot better if he wanted to do that.

My thoughts are that the cost cutting is in part because we are wasting money, and as a marker for us not been seen a soft touch anymore, and that the spending will come when they are majority owners.

I just don't get why SJR would get something he's been wanting for ages and then ruin it some more.

 

[OneUnited24]

But you have INEOS who don't exactly have a sparkling history of success -- never mind a record of turn around underperforming clubs into champions.

True but they’re making the right changes. Yes it hasn’t been smooth but we asked for ages for a football structure and to improve facilities. Which has occurred with carrington open soon.

At least they’re seeing what isn’t working and making a change. Unlike the glazers who would keep the same going because they’re utterly incompetent

 

[noodlehair]

Why would they do that? SJR is getting on now, he has not bought United to get any richer, or to flip it for a profit in 5 years time. He could have bought something alot better if he wanted to do that.

My thoughts are that the cost cutting is in part because we are wasting money, and as a marker for us not been seen a soft touch anymore, and that the spending will come when they are majority owners.

I just don't get why SJR would get something he's been wanting for ages and then ruin it some more.

The spending won't cone because ffp won't allow it, regardless of what Ratcliffe wants.

People keep reading between the lines with Ratcliffe when there is nothing there to read. The cost cutting is because this is how Ratcliffe runs his businesses. He doesnt know any different. He is a greedy billionaire who treats his employees awfully and doesn't value anything (including basic decency) over profit.

The ticket price rises are similar and there will be worse to come because he has already said there will be.

He would obviously prefer the club to do well but there is no master plan beyond what you are seeing in plain sight. This is someone who wanted to sign a player from himself to himself and genuinely had no idea it was against the rules.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Summer is crucial for good recruitment from INEOS and co.

We've just wasted so much money. We need to start hitting on our transfers way more frequently.

All that money spent during ETH's reign and the squad is worse than it was after Ole's 2nd season. That takes some insane incompetence.

 

[Shinjch]

They got one decision wrong and because of that it has ruined everything for the season. Ten Hag sabotaged himself and Amorim in advance by loading up the squad squad with slow and weak players, at least he had McTominay to hoof balls up to when things went wrong and he rescued a fair few points. Now we don't even have that.

As a club we all need to collectively take the oncoming bitter medicine and keep our heads because the next few weeks ain't going to be pretty. After that hopefully we get a new wingback and striker in then results will start turning positive. We need to ride out the next few games and keep our heads, no matter what.

The club signed the players, not the manager. The players are here to play for the club, not a manger. You can blame Ten Hag all you like, but we have seen bad recruitment for years no matter who the manager has been. INEOS are yet to show they are capable of any better.

 

[roseguy64]

The spending won't cone because ffp won't allow it, regardless of what Ratcliffe wants.

People keep reading between the lines with Ratcliffe when there is nothing there to read. The cost cutting is because this is how Ratcliffe runs his businesses. He doesnt know any different. He is a greedy billionaire who treats his employees awfully and doesn't value anything (including basic decency) over profit.

The ticket price rises are similar and there will be worse to come because he has already said there will be.

He would obviously prefer the club to do well but there is no master plan beyond what you are seeing in plain sight. This is someone who wanted to sign a player from himself to himself and genuinely had no idea it was against the rules.

The Athletic have suggested he was complaining about gardening leave when we were going for Ashworth. So used to having his own way he couldn't help but not consider it.

Also, lots of news about staff at the club sending in job applications for other employers. We've also fired people/allowed people to leave who made certain initiatives work for fan benefits and now they're just not happening.

 

[astracrazy]

For me it is beginning to look like the Glazers and Ineos are two cheeks of the same arse.

Ineos don't have a clue how to run a football club. We knew this already with Nice. They obviously can do business, yes, but a football club? We already have evidence they don't.

On the one hand they are busy making unpopular decisions trying to have the club money. Sacking staff, upping prices, upsetting any staff we have left etc etc. Which you might say, well we need to cut out losses - and thats right we do.

Yet their own miss management (or lack of having a clue) has cost us at least £20M since the summer with EtH and Ashworth. You can add on signing Zirkzee to that too in my opinion, because I have no idea what he is doing here. So lets call it what, £50M?

It's crazy.

 

[Crostien]

Relegation would probably be a good thing for the club right now. A full reset and hopefully a full sale by the Glazers.

I can’t believe I’m even having to think about this.

Qatar would be worse than relegation.

 

[gulli_G]

The spending won't cone because ffp won't allow it, regardless of what Ratcliffe wants.

People keep reading between the lines with Ratcliffe when there is nothing there to read. The cost cutting is because this is how Ratcliffe runs his businesses. He doesnt know any different. He is a greedy billionaire who treats his employees awfully and doesn't value anything (including basic decency) over profit.

The ticket price rises are similar and there will be worse to come because he has already said there will be.

He would obviously prefer the club to do well but there is no master plan beyond what you are seeing in plain sight. This is someone who wanted to sign a player from himself to himself and genuinely had no idea it was against the rules.

The fact he agreed to go into partnership with the leeches says it all. All the PR about making Manchester United great again sounds interesting hindsight like Trump's campaign in the last election.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

The spending won't cone because ffp won't allow it, regardless of what Ratcliffe wants.

People keep reading between the lines with Ratcliffe when there is nothing there to read. The cost cutting is because this is how Ratcliffe runs his businesses. He doesnt know any different. He is a greedy billionaire who treats his employees awfully and doesn't value anything (including basic decency) over profit.

The ticket price rises are similar and there will be worse to come because he has already said there will be.

He would obviously prefer the club to do well but there is no master plan beyond what you are seeing in plain sight. This is someone who wanted to sign a player from himself to himself and genuinely had no idea it was against the rules.

No masterplan outside of bringing in supposed top football people to run the club, pretty much the most sort after young manager in Europe, and commitment to building a new stadium/revamp of OT.

The problem is it's not gone well so far, so all the things like cutting back on the staff, OT still leaking/invested with mice, lack of decision the stadium, etc, gets focused on more than it would if things were going better on the pitch, and people get drawn in.

And as you say FFP will restrict the spending so the cost cutting does make sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for him have come in and just carried on running things the way the Glazers had been.

Personally I am still glad SJR was there when the Glazers finally decided they'd had enough of running the club into the ground.

 

[TheReligion]

Why would they do that? SJR is getting on now, he has not bought United to get any richer, or to flip it for a profit in 5 years time. He could have bought something alot better if he wanted to do that.

My thoughts are that the cost cutting is in part because we are wasting money, and as a marker for us not been seen a soft touch anymore, and that the spending will come when they are majority owners.

I just don't get why SJR would get something he's been wanting for ages and then ruin it some more.

The spending won't cone because ffp won't allow it, regardless of what Ratcliffe wants.

People keep reading between the lines with Ratcliffe when there is nothing there to read. The cost cutting is because this is how Ratcliffe runs his businesses. He doesnt know any different. He is a greedy billionaire who treats his employees awfully and doesn't value anything (including basic decency) over profit.

The ticket price rises are similar and there will be worse to come because he has already said there will be.

He would obviously prefer the club to do well but there is no master plan beyond what you are seeing in plain sight. This is someone who wanted to sign a player from himself to himself and genuinely had no idea it was against the rules.

No masterplan outside of bringing in supposed top football people to run the club, pretty much the most sort after young manager in Europe, and commitment to building a new stadium/revamp of OT.

The problem is it's not gone well so far, so all the things like cutting back on the staff, OT still leaking/invested with mice, lack of decision the stadium, etc, gets focused on more than it would if things were going better on the pitch, and people get drawn in.

And as you say FFP will restrict the spending so the cost cutting does make sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for him have come in and just carried on running things the way the Glazers had been.

Personally I am still glad SJR was there when the Glazers finally decided they'd had enough of running the club into the ground.

Yeah what @noodlehair says doesn’t have much logic attached. I tend to agree with you.

 

[stefan92]

No masterplan outside of bringing in supposed top football people to run the club, pretty much the most sort after young manager in Europe,

It's a good and obvious idea but the execution was terrible. The whole Ashworth saga was a predictable waste of time and money and it caused EtH to stay in the summer. Which also caused the new manager to arrive mid season which is always more difficult.

 

[TheReligion]

It's a good and obvious idea but the execution was terrible. The whole Ashworth saga was a predictable waste of time and money and it caused EtH to stay in the summer. Which also caused the new manager to arrive mid season which is always more difficult.

Possibly but I think it shows they do actually want to do something positive with the club and aren’t going to by content simply milking money like the Glazers (which is kind of the point)

 

[Someone]

I'm still not seeing the added value to Ratcliff. He's a billionaire who can't invest anything, and is clearly a terrible person.

The footballing decisions that have been made have set the club back even further. He payed millions to hire and fire a football director in less than a year. We wasted 200m in the summer backing a manager with a certain style of play, completely neglecting to address our lack of goals problem, then sacked him, paying more millions in the process, then hired a manager with a completely different style. Woody used to do the same, no change here.

He has no intention of investing on the new stadium, so we're looking at more debt probably.

The club at its current state, after being neglected by the Glazers for a long time, needed a new owner that can clear the debt and be willing to invest, Ratcliff adds nothing. We're closer to relegation than top 4 and it really feels like it's deserved. I really feel for Amorim.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

It's a good and obvious idea but the execution was terrible. The whole Ashworth saga was a predictable waste of time and money and it caused EtH to stay in the summer. Which also caused the new manager to arrive mid season which is always more difficult.

I don't see how Ashworth leaving like he did was predictictable, I was definitely shocked he left so quickly, he clearly will have had an input in what happened in the summer.

The manager thing was a farce though I agree, but as has been said we'd probably have Tuchel as manager now if we'd done it in the summer, and I don't think that would have worked out very well either personally.

At least with Amorim all the people in charge now wanted him, so they now have to back him. It's just sad he's been given an impossible job early on with this squad, and some people will now start blaming him.

 

[Kaos]

If they just bin off a few more janitors and cleaning staff and axe a few more employee benefits we'll be closer to the promised land.

 

[noodlehair]

No masterplan outside of bringing in supposed top football people to run the club, pretty much the most sort after young manager in Europe, and commitment to building a new stadium/revamp of OT.

The problem is it's not gone well so far, so all the things like cutting back on the staff, OT still leaking/invested with mice, lack of decision the stadium, etc, gets focused on more than it would if things were going better on the pitch, and people get drawn in.

And as you say FFP will restrict the spending so the cost cutting does make sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for him have come in and just carried on running things the way the Glazers had been.

Personally I am still glad SJR was there when the Glazers finally decided they'd had enough of running the club into the ground.

He's already sacked one of his supposed top football people, and spent months deciding to keep a manager only to sack them a few months later, which should give you an indication as to how much thought and knowledge is going into these things.

He hasn't committed to building a new stadium. He's made a bunch of noise about it to try and get other people to pay for it for him. It won't be getting built if it's out of his pocket and I think he's made that extremely obvious.

The Glazers still own most of the club btw. All SJR did is facilitate a way for them to keep leeching from the club.

Some of you need to pull your heads out of the sand with this guy. It's not like he's being particularly deceiving about these things it's all in plain sight.

As for all the cost cutting, negativity, ticket price rises, etc. It's naive to think that and the performances on the pitch have no connection. All this creates a negative feeling and morale throughout the club and it's not a big stretch to consider the possibility that is now also translating over to the performances. Anyone who's worked anywhere that's gone through job/cost cutting measures knows it has a negative impact on everyone. Not just the people who's pay or jobs suffer.

 

[devilish]

For all of INEOS big arm movements they haven’t shown anything that shows progress in the football side of things. We cannot identify and develop talent. Firing the tea lady and raising ticket prices won’t fix that

I was the most anti Ineos in here. While I still question their financial muscle to turn this oil tanker round, I doubt that it's their fault. Actually I think that Qatar would be in the same situation. That's because our infrastructure is shit and everyone bar the academy is lazy and complacent. The only way to sort this out is to burn everything down. That will lead to resistance/sabotage.

 

[stefan92]

I don't see how Ashworth leaving like he did was predictictable, I was definitely shocked he left so quickly, he clearly will have had an input in what happened in the summer.

You might be shocked, I was arguing against Ashworth while he was still on gardening leave.

And yes he surely did have input in the summer. His expected reluctancy to be cut throat and his late arrival lead to too few changes in the summer which now leads to a terrible league season.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

He's already sacked one of his supposed top football people, and spent months deciding to keep a manager only to sack them a few months later, which should give you an indication as to how much thought and knowledge is going into these things.

He hasn't committed to building a new stadium. He's made a bunch of noise about it to try and get other people to pay for it for him. It won't be getting built if it's out of his pocket and I think he's made that extremely obvious.

The Glazers still own most of the club btw. All SJR did is facilitate a way for them to keep leeching from the club.

Some of you need to pull your heads out of the sand with this guy. It's not like he's being particularly deceiving about these things it's all in plain sight.

As for all the cost cutting, negativity, ticket price rises, etc. It's naive to think that and the performances on the pitch have no connection. All this creates a negative feeling and morale throughout the club and it's not a big stretch to consider the possibility that is now also translating over to the performances. Anyone who's worked anywhere that's gone through job/cost cutting measures knows it has a negative impact on everyone. Not just the people who's pay or jobs suffer.

The Glazers have a clause where they can sell the club to another buyer after 18 months, why would they do this if they don't want/expect SJR to buy a majority stake in this timescale? The Glazers won't be taking more money out of the club any time soon via dividends, so I don't see why this wouldn't be happening at some point this year personally.

The new stadium is a commitment, and it will likely be financed in part sponsorship, and in part debt, but so what? That's what Spurs and Arsenal did, and it's a far better debt than the one the Glazers have saddled us with, as we will see something for the money, and it will greatly increase revenue.

I don't get the negativety towards them already, the club was a running joke under the Glazers, existing to service their debt, and line their pockets, Ineos have set us the path away from this, so it surely has to be a positive thing.

And as for the staffing thing, again so what? You say the cuts will have affected moral, which could be been reflected in performances right now, but the club has been a disaster for the last 12-13 years now, so all the staff happy and having lots of perks hasn't been working either.

 

[noodlehair]

The Glazers have a clause where they can sell the club to another buyer after 18 months, why would they do this if they don't want/expect SJR to buy a majority stake in this timescale? The Glazers won't be taking more money out of the club any time soon via dividends, so I don't see why this wouldn't be happening at some point this year personally.

The new stadium is a commitment, and it will likely be financed in part sponsorship, and in part debt, but so what? That's what Spurs and Arsenal did, and it's a far better debt than the one the Glazers have saddled us with, as we will see something for the money, and it will greatly increase revenue.

I don't get the negativety towards them already, the club was a running joke under the Glazers, existing to service their debt, and line their pockets, Ineos have set us the path away from this, so it surely has to be a positive thing.

And as for the staffing thing, again so what? You say the cuts will have affected moral, which could be been reflected in performances right now, but the club has been a disaster for the last 12-13 years now, so all the staff happy and having lots of perks hasn't been working either.

Your first two paragraphs are pure conjecture.

The second two in particular linking treating staff like human beings somehow being linked to the club failing just make you sound like an arse

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Your first two paragraphs are pure conjecture.

The second two in particular linking treating staff like human beings somehow being linked to the club failing just make you sound like an arse

You know that's not what I said, if SJR has come in and seen we are massively overstaffed, then why wouldn't he act on it. The ones that remain are hardly going to be happy, but that is no reason why it should affect what happens on the pitch, but if it does then why haven't performances been better since Fergie left?

You have said yourself that we are now going be limited by FFP, so surely people can say that if savings can be found then it makes sense to act on it, without it making them an arse.

 

[Garethw]

No masterplan outside of bringing in supposed top football people to run the club, pretty much the most sort after young manager in Europe, and commitment to building a new stadium/revamp of OT.

The problem is it's not gone well so far, so all the things like cutting back on the staff, OT still leaking/invested with mice, lack of decision the stadium, etc, gets focused on more than it would if things were going better on the pitch, and people get drawn in.

And as you say FFP will restrict the spending so the cost cutting does make sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for him have come in and just carried on running things the way the Glazers had been.

Personally I am still glad SJR was there when the Glazers finally decided they'd had enough of running the club into the ground.

Ratcliffe with this partial investment has completely fecked the club. It’s given the parasites the means to continue to cling onto the club.

 

[Garethw]

You know that's not what I said, if SJR has come in and seen we are massively overstaffed, then why wouldn't he act on it. The ones that remain are hardly going to be happy, but that is no reason why it should affect what happens on the pitch, but if it does then why haven't performances been better since Fergie left?

You have said yourself that we are now going be limited by FFP, so surely people can say that if savings can be found then it makes sense to act on it, without it making them an arse.

Well maybe he should have thought long and hard about paying millions to Newcastle for Ashworth and then mere months later paying millions in compensation when he sacked him.

His cost cutting measures have been petty and pathetic. Let’s cut the Xmas party for the hard working staff and save £250k but then flush £10-£15 million down the toilet on a Director of Football.

 

[sjw2511]

It seems to me that ineos are going down the route of burning everything to the ground in the hope to rebuild something from the ashes. After a decade of chipping around the edges this process does seem to be finally exposing the true rot. I anticipate it getting a bit worse yet but have more faith in this than previously

 

[noodlehair]

You know that's not what I said, if SJR has come in and seen we are massively overstaffed, then why wouldn't he act on it. The ones that remain are hardly going to be happy, but that is no reason why it should affect what happens on the pitch, but if it does then why haven't performances been better since Fergie left?

You have said yourself that we are now going be limited by FFP, so surely people can say that if savings can be found then it makes sense to act on it, without it making them an arse.

Performances have been better since SAF left. We've generally been between 2nd and, at worst, lower top half. We're now 14th.

Being overstaffed and having to act on it is different to cancelling bonuses for low paid employees, cancelling Christmas parties, banning flexible working, making derogatory comments about your women's team, etc. These things also aren't going to help ffp. Particularly not when you keep sacking people who then cost millions in compensation. The maths simply doesn't work I'm afraid.

It is also the same behaviours SJR has shown towards his employees and anything related to his money in the past. It has nothing to do with ffp and I think you actually know enough about the numbers involved to know that, too.

I get that people WANT to be optimistic but it's pointless kidding yourselves as to what is going on as if it's part of some great plan. It isn't. The evidence is there to tell you that.

Personally, I also think how the club treats people and it's fans is equally as important as success on the pitch. I also don't see where the link between one and the other is (aside from the negative effect on morale), so even if we were winning every game I'd take massive issue with this...as would a lot of fans. Hence all the upheaval when the Glazers originally took over. Sir Jim has been miss presented as some kind of solution to them when he is and always was going to be the exact opposite.

 

[roseguy64]

Performances have been better since SAF left. We've generally been between 2nd and, at worst, lower top half. We're now 14th.

Being overstaffed and having to act on it is different to cancelling bonuses for low paid employees, cancelling Christmas parties, banning flexible working, making derogatory comments about your women's team, etc. These things also aren't going to help ffp. Particularly not when you keep sacking people who then cost millions in compensation. The maths simply doesn't work I'm afraid.

It is also the same behaviours SJR has shown towards his employees and anything related to his money in the past. It has nothing to do with ffp and I think you actually know enough about the numbers involved to know that, too.

I get that people WANT to be optimistic but it's pointless kidding yourselves as to what is going on as if it's part of some great plan. It isn't. The evidence is there to tell you that.

Personally, I also think how the club treats people and it's fans is equally as important as success on the pitch. I also don't see where the link between one and the other is (aside from the negative effect on morale), so even if we were winning every game I'd take massive issue with this...as would a lot of fans. Hence all the upheaval when the Glazers originally took over. Sir Jim has been miss presented as some kind of solution to them when he is and always was going to be the exact opposite.

Agreed. It's why I keep saying that I doubt we actually were overstaffed to the level it's being portrayed as. I don't doubt we had too many employees but the level of cuts just screams INEOS playbook that they've done at every other business they've invested in. Hire a consultancy firm to justify the cuts and make them and then cut employee benefits. Those methods at their other companies resulted in strikes and a lot of turmoil but worked for the most part because a coal mine is not a football club. Negative morale will impact the employees but you can still make up for it.
Football players thrive on confidence so if the people they see around the club daily are suffering then that negatively affects them and their performances. And bad performances equal bad results and an overall net negative. Especially when you hire and fire a high-profile employee within a year. Screams incompetence and uncertainty adding on to extending the contract of another high-profile employee then firing them months later.