They could only sell players in the summer, they didn't, so is he getting all the blame for that when he had only just started the job? So whose job is on the line, are they going to strip down the coaching staff at lower levels? Lay off people who do football in the community? Players have to take their own strips home for washing?
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Every day that passes is another day I regret that Qatar wasn't fully interested in acquiring the club.
We've been absolutely shafted by these idiots. They are most certainly not the 'best in class'.
We have yearned for a DOF for years, watching all of our rivals have one and succeed. Along the the way there has been countless false dawns with stories where it looked like we could hire one, but the stories fizzled out in the end. Then, FINALLY, it was our turn. Apparently "10/10 DOF", "best in class" etc too. And after five fecking it's all gone tits up. We can't have nice things at all.
Brailsford has a place in Monaco mate. He’s a titan of industry.
Wait, what? He wasn’t sacking enough people, so they sacked him?
The appointment and then firing of Ashworth certainly doesn’t instill confidence. Stability is vitally important. That said, if the fit, vision and working relationships weren’t working, one only has one choice, and that’s to pull the plug. I’d rather be decisive than persist with something that’s not working.
I’ve seen a lot of reactionary posts and I’ve seen some that are completely unhinged. The best post I’ve seen on the subject was one pointing out how difficult it is to put in place a completely new leadership team - all starting at different times - and expecting everything to come together flawlessly. There will be some misfirings. The scale of the overhaul job at United, after two decades of rot, rot that accelerated and came to the surface after Ferguson and Gill left, is absolutely massive.
This season will be a tough one for our club. Two weeks ago Amorim said that the safe thing to do was to play with a back four for the rest of the season and then start work with the new system in pre-season. But we’d be starting next season still learning the ropes. The riskier approach, an approach that would lead to some real ups and downs, was to put the system in place immediately and then drill it hard in pre-season. Meaning we could start next season much better off. To do that, and by that I mean the approach that has us in a much better place next season, one has to stomach the probable lows that will come periodically across the rest of this season.
We know the fans don’t have that stomach, the hope is that the hierarchy does. Because to break the cycle of underachievement requires brave decision making and resilience under pressure. There cannot be dissenting voices, negativity or cracks in the facade, there cannot only be complete and utter belief in, and dedication to, the pathway. It seems that Ashworth was that crack, that dissenting voice, and as such had to go. I also expect that the remit of his job was not where his talents best lay.
It seems to me that this parting of the ways was on the cards from the moment Vivell arrived. Recruitment, and the use of data in it, has been a major point of derision and concern from Ratcliffe. So I fully expect that we’ll see a reconfiguration towards a heavily data orientated appointment. Wilcox and Brailsford are clearly the leading voices when it comes to performance standards and optimisation. Berrada has spearheaded and closed the recruitment of Amorim. If Ashworth wasn’t on board with that appointment, and the holistic vision with Berrada is not a shared one, then the dynamic won’t ever work. And he has to go. Berrada is the jewel in the crown, not Ashworth.
I am not disappointed to lose Ashworth, as I think he is easily replaceable within the structure, and likely with someone more suited to the role and more data driven. What I am disappointed in, is that after all the due diligence etc., Ineos got this appointment so wrong. I applaud that they are willing to be so decisive in correcting the mistake, but troubled that it occurred in the first place. The primary hope is that they learn from this and that the next DoF is someone who fits appropriately within the hierarchy and they become a stable, high performing torch bearer of the long term sporting strategy.
I expect to see an enormous effort to rejuvenate our data analytics department over the coming 6 months. Perhaps rejuvenate is the wrong word….create and expand might be better, because according to SJR himself, our use and understanding of data is archaic. This leads me to believe that Ashworth was primarily hired with the promise of bringing that operational facet of the club to the cutting edge of the industry, but in practice wasn’t that man.
Ineos are going to cop a lot of shit for this firing, but upon reflection it is nice to have such demanding and active owners and decision makers in the club. I know there are loads of small details that have really irked the fans, such as layoffs, some small section of ticket prices etc. But the club was in a catastrophic state when Ineos gained control, and to recalibrate and get it back to the top, including the building of a new stadium, there is going to be a lot of change and a lot of pain to go around. So I expect plenty more before the fruits of this labour are really seen. Those bemoaning the failure of Qatar to buy us, in the wake of Ashworth’s firing, just don’t merit responding to. The pining for an abusive National state to take control of England’s marquee club, is as immature as it is disturbing.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the work Ineos are doing should be judged over a minimum 2-3 year window, and realistically over 5 years. In terms of full control, ability to impact operations, have appointments in place etc., we are currently taking in months. It’s far, far too early to be judgemental of the work. None of this is to say I am making a prediction they will be successful, nor am I unequivocally supporting them. I am simply saying to judge a body of work of the scale and nature of that taking place, after a few months, is just complete folly. Positively or negatively, the time to do that is the end of next season or the season after, at the earliest.
I’ve seen a lot of reactionary posts and I’ve seen some that are completely unhinged. The best post I’ve seen on the subject was one pointing out how difficult it is to put in place a completely new leadership team - all starting at different times - and expecting everything to come together flawlessly. There will be some misfirings. The scale of the overhaul job at United, after two decades of rot, rot that accelerated and came to the surface after Ferguson and Gill left, is absolutely massive.
This season will be a tough one for our club. Two weeks ago Amorim said that the safe thing to do was to play with a back four for the rest of the season and then start work with the new system in pre-season. But we’d be starting next season still learning the ropes. The riskier approach, an approach that would lead to some real ups and downs, was to put the system in place immediately and then drill it hard in pre-season. Meaning we could start next season much better off. To do that, and by that I mean the approach that has us in a much better place next season, one has to stomach the probable lows that will come periodically across the rest of this season.
We know the fans don’t have that stomach, the hope is that the hierarchy does. Because to break the cycle of underachievement requires brave decision making and resilience under pressure. There cannot be dissenting voices, negativity or cracks in the facade, there cannot only be complete and utter belief in, and dedication to, the pathway. It seems that Ashworth was that crack, that dissenting voice, and as such had to go. I also expect that the remit of his job was not where his talents best lay.
It seems to me that this parting of the ways was on the cards from the moment Vivell arrived. Recruitment, and the use of data in it, has been a major point of derision and concern from Ratcliffe. So I fully expect that we’ll see a reconfiguration towards a heavily data orientated appointment. Wilcox and Brailsford are clearly the leading voices when it comes to performance standards and optimisation. Berrada has spearheaded and closed the recruitment of Amorim. If Ashworth wasn’t on board with that appointment, and the holistic vision with Berrada is not a shared one, then the dynamic won’t ever work. And he has to go. Berrada is the jewel in the crown, not Ashworth.
I am not disappointed to lose Ashworth, as I think he is easily replaceable within the structure, and likely with someone more suited to the role and more data driven. What I am disappointed in, is that after all the due diligence etc., Ineos got this appointment so wrong. I applaud that they are willing to be so decisive in correcting the mistake, but troubled that it occurred in the first place. The primary hope is that they learn from this and that the next DoF is someone who fits appropriately within the hierarchy and they become a stable, high performing torch bearer of the long term sporting strategy.
I expect to see an enormous effort to rejuvenate our data analytics department over the coming 6 months. Perhaps rejuvenate is the wrong word….create and expand might be better, because according to SJR himself, our use and understanding of data is archaic. This leads me to believe that Ashworth was primarily hired with the promise of bringing that operational facet of the club to the cutting edge of the industry, but in practice wasn’t that man.
Ineos are going to cop a lot of shit for this firing, but upon reflection it is nice to have such demanding and active owners and decision makers in the club. I know there are loads of small details that have really irked the fans, such as layoffs, some small section of ticket prices etc. But the club was in a catastrophic state when Ineos gained control, and to recalibrate and get it back to the top, including the building of a new stadium, there is going to be a lot of change and a lot of pain to go around. So I expect plenty more before the fruits of this labour are really seen. Those bemoaning the failure of Qatar to buy us, in the wake of Ashworth’s firing, just don’t merit responding to. The pining for an abusive National state to take control of England’s marquee club, is as immature as it is disturbing.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the work Ineos are doing should be judged over a minimum 2-3 year window, and realistically over 5 years. In terms of full control, ability to impact operations, have appointments in place etc., we are currently taking in months. It’s far, far too early to be judgemental of the work. None of this is to say I am making a prediction they will be successful, nor am I unequivocally supporting them. I am simply saying to judge a body of work of the scale and nature of that taking place, after a few months, is just complete folly. Positively or negatively, the time to do that is the end of next season or the season after, at the earliest.
Think Ashworth was fine with keeping ETH or Ruud as interim for the rest of the season and he ultimately wanted Southgate but he wasn't gonna come in mid-season. Berrada and I assume others like Wilcox and Brailsford didn't want Southgate and Berrada was deadset on Amorim which is why he personally recruited him and wanted Amorim in as soon as he could so he could take the season to see who is worth keeping, who should be shipped out and have a plan going into the summer instead coming in blind in June/July. Then they came to realize Ashworth just doesn't have the same vision as what is needed for Amorim to succeed.
INEOS look like tools so far
Worrying
From keeping ETH to immediately regret decision then this.
Glazers are bad owners but we are into something even more wild.
Worrying
From keeping ETH to immediately regret decision then this.
Glazers are bad owners but we are into something even more wild.
His most recent achievement in sports that aren’t football seems to have been completely ruining a formerly successful cycling team and squandering millions to not win anything in a sailing competition.
Brailsford? More like Failsford. Eh? Eh?
I think this is a good sign. Not as good a sign as the Glazers completely selling the team and the Ineos group finding a cash rich partner to run the club, but a good sign.
I’ve seen the reason why mentioned several times already: the United of the last decade or so has let wounds fester before tending them. If something isn’t right, if the Barrada vision was competing with Ashworth and the club has more faith one direction? Do it, don’t wait.
Wing decisive is better than lingering in uncertainty, and soon you will have a talented organization that you KNOW is all working in the same direction.
I’ve seen the reason why mentioned several times already: the United of the last decade or so has let wounds fester before tending them. If something isn’t right, if the Barrada vision was competing with Ashworth and the club has more faith one direction? Do it, don’t wait.
Wing decisive is better than lingering in uncertainty, and soon you will have a talented organization that you KNOW is all working in the same direction.
No fecking thanks. He has signed some utterly overpriced dross.
Ratcliffe is one of those fecking guys who hold on to your hand too firmly and long shaking it, while looking at you probingly, isn't he
As a side note, we need to hire Real Madrid's chief scout, they regularly identify all best talents at a young age.
no club can run like Real Madrid do. Players willing to run down their contracts to play for RM.
That would please the ladies I am sure
So why have foreigners always been bought for them to have as much success as they have had?
Great post
We had Murtough as DOF
Couldn’t agree more.
Interesting that on the day it is announced Bayern reached €1bn annual revenue, United firing its sporting director is a much bigger story globally. Ultimately united’s global commercial appeal is still under exploited which means when Amorim comes good the club will make hay in all aspects something which would have been undermined by Qatari ownership.
Because the best talents that have been "unearthed" by Juni Calafat are all from Brazil.
You mean he is a winner like Trump, especially when doing a ‘Mr shake hands competition’ v that weirdo Macron?
There are two ways of looking at the whole situation.
The positive scenario: There are no compromises this time. Ashworth had to go because he supported old ideas (British players, manager like Southgate, new contracts for the existing squad etc.) and now we only want people fully supporting Amorim and his way, no matter what the cost and the short term pain is going to be.
The negative scenario: Sir Jim realized that he is over 70 and time is not necessarily on his side. If he was 20 years younger he would probably have less of a problem giving the whole project some years but now he feels the urgency to get involved more in things where he has no real clue, leading to more chaos and long term goals being regularly being canceled out of impatience.
The positive scenario: There are no compromises this time. Ashworth had to go because he supported old ideas (British players, manager like Southgate, new contracts for the existing squad etc.) and now we only want people fully supporting Amorim and his way, no matter what the cost and the short term pain is going to be.
The negative scenario: Sir Jim realized that he is over 70 and time is not necessarily on his side. If he was 20 years younger he would probably have less of a problem giving the whole project some years but now he feels the urgency to get involved more in things where he has no real clue, leading to more chaos and long term goals being regularly being canceled out of impatience.
So we are just talking recent times then.
Without the full details and insight into football operations, we can't give any sort of worthwhile opinion on whether getting rid of Ashworth is the right or wrong decision. We can only trust that is was made for the right reasons.
At the end of the day it's normal for companies to remove employees who either aren't performing as expected or who aren't a good fit for the company, whether that's culturally or meeting business objectives.
If I could point to any one single reason that is to blame for United falling so far since Ferguson's departure, it would be recruitment. At every level of the clubs hierarchy we have employed people who aren't fit for purpose. From CEO's, to coaches, to players, we have seen how incompetence has led to poor results on the pitch. The worst part about it all is having to endure these incompetent people for so long.
Therefore without knowing the details I can only look at the sacking as a positive, because it shows decisiveness. Something we've been sorely lacking since Gill and Ferguson. You can say they fecked up with the whole Ten Hag situation, and they did, but hopefully they've learned from that feck up and it won't happen again.
I just hope they are as ruthless in getting rid of players who aren't fit for purpose.
At the end of the day it's normal for companies to remove employees who either aren't performing as expected or who aren't a good fit for the company, whether that's culturally or meeting business objectives.
If I could point to any one single reason that is to blame for United falling so far since Ferguson's departure, it would be recruitment. At every level of the clubs hierarchy we have employed people who aren't fit for purpose. From CEO's, to coaches, to players, we have seen how incompetence has led to poor results on the pitch. The worst part about it all is having to endure these incompetent people for so long.
Therefore without knowing the details I can only look at the sacking as a positive, because it shows decisiveness. Something we've been sorely lacking since Gill and Ferguson. You can say they fecked up with the whole Ten Hag situation, and they did, but hopefully they've learned from that feck up and it won't happen again.
I just hope they are as ruthless in getting rid of players who aren't fit for purpose.
I don't think that's interesting. Bad (and surprising) news always sells better than good (and expected) news and Bayern reaching that milestone is simply the latter.
I wasn't expecting much from them. Look at Nice
I don't understand what you mean by this, they identify the right talent before the price sky rockets (for example Marcelo) and are willing to pay a premium if they need to, the only time I have seen is do that lately is Amad. They also recognise quality in older players who are not necessarily world stars (Modric).
What they do with those players after, thats up to the management (Odegard for example).
But no doubt, Real Madrid identify great young talent very regularly, in my opinion better than any club in Europe.
Great post, common sense when all around are losing their heads.
Odegard isn't Brazilian for example, but they have a keen eye for player who may not necessarily be an unearthed talent and are willing to pay, for example Bellingham. Wirtz (rumours).
Can someone tell me how Jason Wilcox got so high up the food chain?
Because historically they pay big money for the best players in the world from other countries.
You use Modric as an example...he was probably the best midfielder in the Premier League when they bought him.
It is obvious that Real would have the upper hand in getting the top prospects in South America given the climate and language in Spain compared to the UK and the history of Real.
Berrada was pivotal at Man City to he fair. He probably comed with most relevant pedigree, along with Jean Claude Blanc
Wilcox was head of the best academy in the UK at City for a number of years. Was director of football at Southampton. He’s no slouch.
The first of the hires through the door here, so has embedded himself in the structure and has a long working relationship with Berrada.
Berrada was COO at city and earmarked to take over as CEO. Again has good pedigree.
I hear he's more of a fist bump kinda guy.
Great post.
I applaud Ineos team for making brave/hard decisions.
1. Sack ETH to correct their mistake for keeping him last summer.
2. Sack Ashworth to correct their mistakes of appointed the wrong "best in class" DOF who is rumoured to be in favor to keep ETH, or appoint Southgate as manager, not align with the club style of play and not performing well in signing players.
Give them time, they are only human. They can't correct all the unprecedented mismanagement for more than a decade in a just few months. No one can do that even with oil money. They will get it right. Berrada asked for 2028. Finger crossed.
1. Sack ETH to correct their mistake for keeping him last summer.
2. Sack Ashworth to correct their mistakes of appointed the wrong "best in class" DOF who is rumoured to be in favor to keep ETH, or appoint Southgate as manager, not align with the club style of play and not performing well in signing players.
Give them time, they are only human. They can't correct all the unprecedented mismanagement for more than a decade in a just few months. No one can do that even with oil money. They will get it right. Berrada asked for 2028. Finger crossed.
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Okay, yes; Ashworth does seem a bit limited in vision. Southgate! But as the Athletic said, why didn’t Mr Jim know that already? Amorim is a great choice, though. Nice to see imagination and ambition. I can imagine all those egos grinding off each other in the air-conditioned Inner Sanctum.
There are more negative scenarios than that. There are signs Ratcliffe is a rabid egomaniac who is far too hands on, like the transport manager’s son firing the train driver and taking the controls. All that penny pinching at the club, some of his interviews plus his treatment of Ten Hag at the FA Cup shows a worrying lack of respect. It might suggest that Ratcliffe thinks it’s all about him, not the club. Neither positive nor negative is fully clear yet; Ratcliffe (and the rest of them) deserve a chance. We will see.
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