Club ownership | Senior management team talk

That's interview does give me some more confidence but in many ways it's hard to understand how we are in the situation we are in but are planning to build the world's best stadium.

How could we possibly deal with increasing our debt from 1 billion to potentially over 3 billion.

How will we possibly be able to service that? It seems impossible as long as the Glazers are here.

Am I missing something?

Because the stadium debt will be a completely separate affair and a money generating asset in its own right.

Barcelona were able to attract $310m for a 4 year deal on naming rights for an existing stadium which everybody continues to call the Nou Camp. Imagine what United could attract for a longer term deal on a brand new, so far unnamed stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 20 year deal worth a billion at least.

Then we will invite investment from large retail and hospitality organisations for club owned space in the surrounding fan areas. There’s probably a couple of hundred million potentially there.

If they’re knocking down Old Trafford, you’d have to imagine they will sell some of that land for either commercial or residential development. That money can be used towards the stadium, or to pay down the debt.

An extra 25k tickets at £40 each is worth a million in additional ticket revenue per game, before we even look at improved hospitality and corporate facilities and better food, beverage and club retail services generating more matchday income.

I’d imagine there will be a debenture scheme where 5 or 10 year tickets, generally quite high value tickets as well, as sold ahead of time. I don’t know loads about these, other than the IRFU (Irish rugby) 10 year tickets sell for €15k a piece and that’s for only 5/6 home games a season. Sell a couple of thousand for United who get 30 home games each year and it’s a huge chunk of change.

The guaranteed extra matchday income can be ringfenced for a period of time to service any specific debt incurred on building the stadium, without having a negative effect on our recent operating figures.

I’d also like to think there’s an avenue via which Ineos can fund a portion in return for a higher shareholding, further reducing the amount we need to borrow and lessening the grip of the Glazers as well.
 
I come away from that interview pretty worried about the club. Ratcliffe came off like a total snake oil salesman to me. Fair play to Neville holding him accountable on some things, but Ratcliffe was determined to get some lines out there that just don't tally with events or only serve to further his agenda regardless of the context. Prices will continue to rise, morale will continue to drop with this guy leading decision making at the club.
 
Because the stadium debt will be a completely separate affair and a money generating asset in its own right.

Barcelona were able to attract $310m for a 4 year deal on naming rights for an existing stadium which everybody continues to call the Nou Camp. Imagine what United could attract for a longer term deal on a brand new, so far unnamed stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 20 year deal worth a billion at least.

Then we will invite investment from large retail and hospitality organisations for club owned space in the surrounding fan areas. There’s probably a couple of hundred million potentially there.

If they’re knocking down Old Trafford, you’d have to imagine they will sell some of that land for either commercial or residential development. That money can be used towards the stadium, or to pay down the debt.

An extra 25k tickets at £40 each is worth a million in additional ticket revenue per game, before we even look at improved hospitality and corporate facilities and better food, beverage and club retail services generating more matchday income.

I’d imagine there will be a debenture scheme where 5 or 10 year tickets, generally quite high value tickets as well, as sold ahead of time. I don’t know loads about these, other than the IRFU (Irish rugby) 10 year tickets sell for €15k a piece and that’s for only 5/6 home games a season. Sell a couple of thousand for United who get 30 home games each year and it’s a huge chunk of change.

The guaranteed extra matchday income can be ringfenced for a period of time to service any specific debt incurred on building the stadium, without having a negative effect on our recent operating figures.

I’d also like to think there’s an avenue via which Ineos can fund a portion in return for a higher shareholding, further reducing the amount we need to borrow and lessening the grip of the Glazers as well.


Barca have openly admitted that they just want to fleece the fans. Something about trying to get more money out of fans/consumers. A new Camp Nou like a new Old Trafford will be about the money.
 
I come away from that interview pretty worried about the club. Ratcliffe came off like a total snake oil salesman to me. Fair play to Neville holding him accountable on some things, but Ratcliffe was determined to get some lines out there that just don't tally with events or only serve to further his agenda regardless of the context. Prices will continue to rise, morale will continue to drop with this guy leading decision making at the club.

Are you able to expand on the lines that don't tally up? What is his agenda?
 
Barca have openly admitted that they just want to fleece the fans. Something about trying to get more money out of fans/consumers. A new Camp Nou like a new Old Trafford will be about the money.

I’m not sure how that relates to their stadium naming deal to be honest but ok, fair enough.

Explain this business of fleecing fans to me. If ticket prices are stupid then fair enough - but unless they are forcing people into bars and restaurants, then where is the fleecing happening?

If they make everything too fancy and expensive, or shite quality and over priced, people won’t stick around. If they make it affordable and decent, those who want to stick around and eat or drink will do so.

At the moment, the people who want to eat or drink before or after a game are doing it elsewhere - those who don’t want that just come for the game and then go home. What changes just because there are more options closer to the ground?
 
Are you able to expand on the lines that don't tally up? What is his agenda?
From the angle I got, I agreed with some of what he said but there have been a couple of things such as the announcement that it will be government funded yet according to a government spokesperson yesterday (if we believe the news on tv!) they know nothing about an approach to funding it, then there is the news today that we will have to stick with a mediocre team for the foreseeable yet SJR (or Catweazle/Fagin as he used to be known) was all about making our club as big as LFC are now and Real Madrid (or do we have to wait another 10 years before they assist Ruben in getting the players he wants/needs for his rebuild
 
I come away from that interview pretty worried about the club. Ratcliffe came off like a total snake oil salesman to me. Fair play to Neville holding him accountable on some things, but Ratcliffe was determined to get some lines out there that just don't tally with events or only serve to further his agenda regardless of the context. Prices will continue to rise, morale will continue to drop with this guy leading decision making at the club.
That interview actually gave me more confidence about the future than listening to any of our managers post SAF.

It may not work out but at least it's clear Ratcliffe/Ineos have a plan. They recognize the pitfalls and are working towards avoiding them. In any sport there can be no guarantees of success, but Ratcliffe to me came across as someone who is able to recognize the core issues surrounding the club and has his finger on the pulse.

If someone was expecting him to elaborate on the Glazers, that can't happen as it was widely reported there were legal clauses stating both Glazers and Ineos wouldn't criticize each other in public. Also, regarding Ashworth it's clear it didn't work out so no point engaging in mud slinging.
 
From the angle I got, I agreed with some of what he said but there have been a couple of things such as the announcement that it will be government funded yet according to a government spokesperson yesterday (if we believe the news on tv!) they know nothing about an approach to funding it, then there is the news today that we will have to stick with a mediocre team for the foreseeable yet SJR (or Catweazle/Fagin as he used to be known) was all about making our club as big as LFC are now and Real Madrid (or do we have to wait another 10 years before they assist Ruben in getting the players he wants/needs for his rebuild

The govt funding is not for the stadium, its for the surrounding areas... like transport, housing, commercial. I would say, there is an appetite from the government. Rachel Reeves has said there will be funding in the Manchester Area, with the mayor of Manchester also being involved in this process shows there is an appetite for the government.
 
Are you able to expand on the lines that don't tally up? What is his agenda?
His agenda at the minute seems to be to cut everything at the club to the bone. We have been losing money, yes. But he has no interest at all in talking about the reasons for the losses of the years he was talking about. 2 of the years were hugely affected by covid, but him mentioning that wouldn't marry up with the narrative of 'minding the pennies and the pounds look after themselves'. The rest of the years the team has not been able to achieve consistent Champions League football which hurts the balance sheet much more than any lunchtime spending.

Talks about us being insolvent by Christmas to help push his case of firing people, but doesn't back that claim up with anything. If we were heading towards insolvency then it may not be best to fire money at stadium planning and Patrick Dorgu's (no offence intended to Patrick).

I come away for it thinking that he had all his excuses and talking points lined up, had a few people to throw under the bus, but wasn't able to articulate a plan for sporting success.

That interview actually gave me more confidence about the future than listening to any of our managers post SAF.

It may not work out but at least it's clear Ratcliffe/Ineos have a plan. They recognize the pitfalls and are working towards avoiding them. In any sport there can be no guarantees of success, but Ratcliffe to me came across as someone who is able to recognize the core issues surrounding the club and has his finger on the pulse.

If someone was expecting him to elaborate on the Glazers, that can't happen as it was widely reported there were legal clauses stating both Glazers and Ineos wouldn't criticize each other in public. Also, regarding Ashworth it's clear it didn't work out so no point engaging in mud slinging.
What was the plan for the team? I didn't come away with it, just that we need to cut spending more
 
The govt funding is not for the stadium, its for the surrounding areas... like transport, housing, commercial. I would say, there is an appetite from the government. Rachel Reeves has said there will be funding in the Manchester Area, with the mayor of Manchester also being involved in this process shows there is an appetite for the government.
apologies good buddy for the misunderstanding. if that is the case then that can only be a positive
 
His agenda at the minute seems to be to cut everything at the club to the bone. We have been losing money, yes. But he has no interest at all in talking about the reasons for the losses of the years he was talking about. 2 of the years were hugely affected by covid, but him mentioning that wouldn't marry up with the narrative of 'minding the pennies and the pounds look after themselves'. The rest of the years the team has not been able to achieve consistent Champions League football which hurts the balance sheet much more than any lunchtime spending.

Talks about us being insolvent by Christmas to help push his case of firing people, but doesn't back that claim up with anything. If we were heading towards insolvency then it may not be best to fire money at stadium planning and Patrick Dorgu's (no offence intended to Patrick).

I come away for it thinking that he had all his excuses and talking points lined up, had a few people to throw under the bus, but wasn't able to articulate a plan for sporting success.

So basically you heard what he said and interpreted it to suit your agenda?

His agenda is to make us not lose 100m a year.. you talk about covid but alot of clubs got dispensation for those times, 2020 and 2021 affected. What about 2023, 2024? was that covid effect?

He actually talked about the reasons, I suggest you go listen to it again and pay attention. He said, operating costs have gone up by 100m in the last 7 years, wages are up 100m but revenue is only up 100m. So you are increasing costs by 200m but revenue by 100m? Is that not an explanation?

The team not being in the CL, hurts the balance sheet, which is again what he mentioned, spending money banking on CL revenue... with the lunches, its part of the bigger picture, like he said free lunch is a perk, there is only a minority that get free lunches provided by their company.

He did not say the club will be insolvent by Christmas, another example of you not listening to it, he said the club would have run out of CASH, a big difference to going bust.

Again, show me a quote of him saying we are going towards insolvency? This is a football club, you spend money on football players, infrastructure, not free lunches.

I dont know what interview you actually listened to, because he has mentioned about a target of winning the league in 5 years, which is a sporting success. He said, its not about not signing players, its about getting profitable whilst winning.

Throwing people under the bus? He said in the interview, it was his mistake, error in Ten Hag and Ashworth and held his hand up, taking accountability.

At this point I am wondering if you actually watched the interview.
 
I apologise in advance for the stream of consciousness/rant, but I have had a lot of thoughts bouncing around my head after watching the Neville interview. It will hopefully be cathartic to try and express them coherently, and if they are of any interest whatsoever to anybody else here, then that's a nice bonus.

Whilst I thought he generally came across very poorly and I am not filled with confidence by having him and his appointments in charge of running the club, I thought I'd start with the positives, or rather, the positive.

Credit to him for doing the interview and generally being more open and communicative with what he wants to do with the club. It's far more in a year than we've ever got from the Glazers in two decades, and it's worth saying that it's also more communication and engagement than most fans get from the owners of their club too. Whether that's actually a good thing or not is debateable. Whilst most would agree that communication is better than radio silence and bringing the fans along with you is important, I think most fans would rather the quiet competence of David Gill / Man City than communicative incompetence. Also, the fact that things got to the state where he felt the need to arrange a long-form interview to try and push back against the negative PR and poor results is probably quite telling in itself. Nevertheless, communicative incompetence is still better than radio silent/disintrested incompetence, so him even bothering to face some degree of public scrutiny for his actions is an improvement on the Glazers, and any further attempts to build bridges with the fan groups will be welcome.

Now for the things that annoyed me...

First, the obvious one that I'm sure has been covered a lot. The fact that he acted genuinely surprised when Neville suggested that his £40k cut to the Players Association could be made up by a sponsored dinner or a raffle is staggering. It's not exactly 4D chess to deploy the same fundraising approach that Man Utd have been doing for years for charitable events. Whether it honestly had never occurred to him or not, saying that he had not thought of a fundraising effort employed by every pub team in the country to do an event and raffle off some signed shirts is not a good look, as the kids would say.

Secondly, his waffle about 'real supporters' was cringeworthy, tone deaf and insulting. A billionaire tax exile who has increased ticket prices and made staff redundant having the gall to speak on what a 'proper supporter' is will never go down well with me. What makes a season ticket holder who goes to every game more of a 'proper supporter' than a guy across the world who gets up in the middle of the night to watch every game and spends a small fortune to make a pilgrimage to Old Trafford whenever he can afford it? It's also deeply cynical since his business model will almost certainly involve appealing to the overseas fans as they are the ones who will spend more in the megastore, do the tours etc. It came across as a cheap ploy to divide fans and obfuscate his ticket price increase by appealing to the 'proper supporters' not affected by the recent concessions hike.

I found his answers on the ticket price rises to be very unconvincing in general. At one point, he said that he didn't know the exact details of the price rises, at another he cited the specific number of impacted tickets to rebuke the bad PR they got for removing concessions. One moment he'd say that ticket prices will have to increase next season as it's a key way to increase United's income, the next he'd talk about how he wants to reward and recognise the contribution of 'proper supporters' as the Stretford End helps the team win, or something like that. It came across to me as the 'we're all in it together' nonsense we had with austerity, mixed with the divide and rule stuff I mentioned earlier. "Don't be angry at ticket prices, you are one of the 'proper supporters' - even if you are affected, you should be happy to pay more because you know you are doing your duty to help the team that we all care so deeply about, so say I, billionaire owner who tried to buy Chelsea a few months ago".

The concept he was floating to charge fans from overseas (or wealthy fans generally) more for tickets just seems unworkable and daft, too.

Next, something that really got under my skin was the claim he made about how you need your management team and decision makers in place in order to know who to cut, because you want to cut the unproductive people not the good people. This is personal, and may bother me more due to my political persuasion, but I hate this entire notion. I think at this point we're all familiar with 40 years of neoliberalism to know how this script goes. Somehow, the senior managers and their reviews always conclude that their high salaries and bonuses are essential, but we need to trim the fat from the precarious little people, who need to do more with less. It's firing and rehiring, doing more with less and outsourcing more so you don't have as many employees who want unreasonable things like a living wage or workers rights.

Not only do I disagree with it on a moral level, but I'm also highly sceptical that it is the best way to run a football club. Modern football seems to be as much about the intangibles and overall competence as any industry I can think of. The general morale of the training ground staff, caterers, admin team etc presumably has an impact on the morale of your team of 11 millionaires. Especially since modern footballers seem to be so coddled and divorced from reality, having a club that is staffed to provide a wrap around structure to make your squad of 20+ players from around the world feel as taken care of and available to perform is presumably more important than ever. I'm not saying we should throw a Rio carnivale for Casemiro each week or hire one of those sad Portuguese ladies to serenade Bruno Fernandes as he eats his pasta each day, but the idea of 'efficiency saving your way to a league title' seems like an oxymoron.

Then there's the headline grabbing claim - that United would run out of money before Christmas if they didn't implement Big Jim's cut backs and redundancies. At face value, this is absurd. If it was true, then it would raise serious questions of Jim's professional integrity, especially since United is a publicly traded company on the NYSE. The fact that it's something he just blurts out as a flippant comment at an interview rather than something he's raised and informed the shareholders and the NYSE in filings is staggering. If it was actually true or meant anything, then he would have a raft of issues from a compliance standpoint about failure to disclose, misrepresentation, director's duties and potentially even wrongful trading. He would have real questions to answer about spending millions to sack Dan Ashworth and Ten Hag and the money spent on transfers in the summer. If United was going to run out of money by Christmas, then they wouldn't have spent £250m on players (the largest single cost for a club) less than 12 months ago. In any event, you can see the claim is false just by looking at United's balance sheet. It seems something he thought of on the spot to try and justify cuts and redundancies that he likely always wanted to make, without thinking through the logic or the longer term effect of the statement.

Finally I got the general sense that he was more interested in saving his own face and justifying his own decisions rather than the long-term bigger picture of the club. He mentioned the surprising amount of pushback and negativity he's had since taking charge in a way that made it seem like it was affecting him. He justified keeping Ten Hag and cited Ten Hag being involved in summer transfers by saying 'look at the Dutch players we signed' when most reports said that Ten Hag didn't want Zirkzee and was furious with him when he arrived at training. He cited the wage bill of the players Amorim has had available to him to justify why he's not doing as badly as it seems when the same rationale could presumably be applied to Ten Hag at various points this season and last. He seemed much more comfortable talking about the cuts and the financial side than the playing side ("look how much we're paying for players who don't / can't play for us etc"). That would be fine, as he's clearly not the person making all of the football decisions, but when he sacked the director of football he hired to make football decisions because he (reportedly) disagreed with his managerial suggestions and his preference for using analytics, then that's more of a problem.

In the whole interview I thought he seemed to be incoherent and self-preserving rather than somebody with the drive and skills needed to turn around Man Utd. "Things are really bad so we need austerity, but don't blame the Glazers or ask them to pay to fix it, they were just too nice and gave the previous appointees too much freedom and money". "Our staff have had it too easy and had too many perks for too long and somebody needs to crack the whip, why are you asking me about the much more costly mistakes I have made since I've come in, I've admitted they were mistakes, now let's concentrate on those skiving admin staff". "Of course I don't know all of the details of the next round of ticket rises I'm planning, anyway here is a 20 slide Powerpoint presentation on why the previous ticket rise was actually not a big deal and the media are making a fuss out of nothing".

I hope I'm wrong and I hope that he installs people who know how to run a top class football club, but at the moment I have seen very little to make me like or trust him, and the interview really soured my opinion of him and made me fearful of him having the strategy and answers to improve Man Utd.
 
So basically you heard what he said and interpreted it to suit your agenda?

His agenda is to make us not lose 100m a year.. you talk about covid but alot of clubs got dispensation for those times, 2020 and 2021 affected. What about 2023, 2024? was that covid effect?

He actually talked about the reasons, I suggest you go listen to it again and pay attention. He said, operating costs have gone up by 100m in the last 7 years, wages are up 100m but revenue is only up 100m. So you are increasing costs by 200m but revenue by 100m? Is that not an explanation?

The team not being in the CL, hurts the balance sheet, which is again what he mentioned, spending money banking on CL revenue... with the lunches, its part of the bigger picture, like he said free lunch is a perk, there is only a minority that get free lunches provided by their company.

He did not say the club will be insolvent by Christmas, another example of you not listening to it, he said the club would have run out of CASH, a big difference to going bust.

Again, show me a quote of him saying we are going towards insolvency? This is a football club, you spend money on football players, infrastructure, not free lunches.

I dont know what interview you actually listened to, because he has mentioned about a target of winning the league in 5 years, which is a sporting success. He said, its not about not signing players, its about getting profitable whilst winning.

Throwing people under the bus? He said in the interview, it was his mistake, error in Ten Hag and Ashworth and held his hand up, taking accountability.

At this point I am wondering if you actually watched the interview.
Ok, thanks for the response.

If I misrepresented him talking about the club running out of cash by Christmas, I apologise. But I still think he knows what he is doing when he says that.

Such a telling part was when talking about the ticket price increases, the way he squirmed and tried to move the blame around just looked pathetic to me. Especially when he is cutting jobs all around the place. If you believe that the ticket prices need to go up for the club, then stand behind it with your chest, don't start saying "it was a club decision, not my decision". That is not the sort of leadership I would want to see.

Anyway, the interview is the interview. What matters is where the club is going in the next few years. I hope you are more right about him than I am at the moment.
 
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That's interview does give me some more confidence but in many ways it's hard to understand how we are in the situation we are in but are planning to build the world's best stadium.

How could we possibly deal with increasing our debt from 1 billion to potentially over 3 billion.

How will we possibly be able to service that? It seems impossible as long as the Glazers are here.

Am I missing something?
I don’t think the Glazers will be around. The ‘drag along rights’ activate in August this year - so we could see movement as soon as the end of the year.

You can bet Sir Jim hasn’t invested in the training ground and announced a new stadium to be bought out - he absolutely wants to increase his shareholding and become majority or even sole owner of the club.

The original Glazer purchase debt matures in 2027 so that is another key moment along the way to the doors opening on the new stadium in 2030. It could be a chance for Ratcliffe to payoff the debt in exchange for further equity.

Our current financial situation although serious is only short term. We turnover plenty of revenue so once we stop making losses the books will correct themselves. We might not like the steps INEOS are taking, but they clearly have a plan which they are executing given the talk of being profitable in 3 years.

As for funding the stadium it will obviously be external sources and likely a mix of Sponsorships, partnerships and some debt funding. Sir Jim and INEOS might even put their hands in their pockets again. We have multiple options and none of them are really affected by our current situation.
 
What makes a season ticket holder who goes to every game more of a 'proper supporter' than a guy across the world
Probably the season ticket, the regular attendance and continued spending with the club every home game.

Being a supporter of the club means different things to different people. I’d also argue (albeit it’s just semantics) that there is a tangible difference between ‘fans’ and ‘supporters’.

I’m not one of them but I would agree with Jim that the core support in and around the Salford area and those who are regular match goers are more important (again, define important) than us fans who live outside of Manchester, or outside of the UK.
 
I apologise in advance for the stream of consciousness/rant, but I have had a lot of thoughts bouncing around my head after watching the Neville interview. It will hopefully be cathartic to try and express them coherently, and if they are of any interest whatsoever to anybody else here, then that's a nice bonus.

Whilst I thought he generally came across very poorly and I am not filled with confidence by having him and his appointments in charge of running the club, I thought I'd start with the positives, or rather, the positive.

Credit to him for doing the interview and generally being more open and communicative with what he wants to do with the club. It's far more in a year than we've ever got from the Glazers in two decades, and it's worth saying that it's also more communication and engagement than most fans get from the owners of their club too. Whether that's actually a good thing or not is debateable. Whilst most would agree that communication is better than radio silence and bringing the fans along with you is important, I think most fans would rather the quiet competence of David Gill / Man City than communicative incompetence. Also, the fact that things got to the state where he felt the need to arrange a long-form interview to try and push back against the negative PR and poor results is probably quite telling in itself. Nevertheless, communicative incompetence is still better than radio silent/disintrested incompetence, so him even bothering to face some degree of public scrutiny for his actions is an improvement on the Glazers, and any further attempts to build bridges with the fan groups will be welcome.

Now for the things that annoyed me...

First, the obvious one that I'm sure has been covered a lot. The fact that he acted genuinely surprised when Neville suggested that his £40k cut to the Players Association could be made up by a sponsored dinner or a raffle is staggering. It's not exactly 4D chess to deploy the same fundraising approach that Man Utd have been doing for years for charitable events. Whether it honestly had never occurred to him or not, saying that he had not thought of a fundraising effort employed by every pub team in the country to do an event and raffle off some signed shirts is not a good look, as the kids would say.

Secondly, his waffle about 'real supporters' was cringeworthy, tone deaf and insulting. A billionaire tax exile who has increased ticket prices and made staff redundant having the gall to speak on what a 'proper supporter' is will never go down well with me. What makes a season ticket holder who goes to every game more of a 'proper supporter' than a guy across the world who gets up in the middle of the night to watch every game and spends a small fortune to make a pilgrimage to Old Trafford whenever he can afford it? It's also deeply cynical since his business model will almost certainly involve appealing to the overseas fans as they are the ones who will spend more in the megastore, do the tours etc. It came across as a cheap ploy to divide fans and obfuscate his ticket price increase by appealing to the 'proper supporters' not affected by the recent concessions hike.

I found his answers on the ticket price rises to be very unconvincing in general. At one point, he said that he didn't know the exact details of the price rises, at another he cited the specific number of impacted tickets to rebuke the bad PR they got for removing concessions. One moment he'd say that ticket prices will have to increase next season as it's a key way to increase United's income, the next he'd talk about how he wants to reward and recognise the contribution of 'proper supporters' as the Stretford End helps the team win, or something like that. It came across to me as the 'we're all in it together' nonsense we had with austerity, mixed with the divide and rule stuff I mentioned earlier. "Don't be angry at ticket prices, you are one of the 'proper supporters' - even if you are affected, you should be happy to pay more because you know you are doing your duty to help the team that we all care so deeply about, so say I, billionaire owner who tried to buy Chelsea a few months ago".

The concept he was floating to charge fans from overseas (or wealthy fans generally) more for tickets just seems unworkable and daft, too.

Next, something that really got under my skin was the claim he made about how you need your management team and decision makers in place in order to know who to cut, because you want to cut the unproductive people not the good people. This is personal, and may bother me more due to my political persuasion, but I hate this entire notion. I think at this point we're all familiar with 40 years of neoliberalism to know how this script goes. Somehow, the senior managers and their reviews always conclude that their high salaries and bonuses are essential, but we need to trim the fat from the precarious little people, who need to do more with less. It's firing and rehiring, doing more with less and outsourcing more so you don't have as many employees who want unreasonable things like a living wage or workers rights.

Not only do I disagree with it on a moral level, but I'm also highly sceptical that it is the best way to run a football club. Modern football seems to be as much about the intangibles and overall competence as any industry I can think of. The general morale of the training ground staff, caterers, admin team etc presumably has an impact on the morale of your team of 11 millionaires. Especially since modern footballers seem to be so coddled and divorced from reality, having a club that is staffed to provide a wrap around structure to make your squad of 20+ players from around the world feel as taken care of and available to perform is presumably more important than ever. I'm not saying we should throw a Rio carnivale for Casemiro each week or hire one of those sad Portuguese ladies to serenade Bruno Fernandes as he eats his pasta each day, but the idea of 'efficiency saving your way to a league title' seems like an oxymoron.

Then there's the headline grabbing claim - that United would run out of money before Christmas if they didn't implement Big Jim's cut backs and redundancies. At face value, this is absurd. If it was true, then it would raise serious questions of Jim's professional integrity, especially since United is a publicly traded company on the NYSE. The fact that it's something he just blurts out as a flippant comment at an interview rather than something he's raised and informed the shareholders and the NYSE in filings is staggering. If it was actually true or meant anything, then he would have a raft of issues from a compliance standpoint about failure to disclose, misrepresentation, director's duties and potentially even wrongful trading. He would have real questions to answer about spending millions to sack Dan Ashworth and Ten Hag and the money spent on transfers in the summer. If United was going to run out of money by Christmas, then they wouldn't have spent £250m on players (the largest single cost for a club) less than 12 months ago. In any event, you can see the claim is false just by looking at United's balance sheet. It seems something he thought of on the spot to try and justify cuts and redundancies that he likely always wanted to make, without thinking through the logic or the longer term effect of the statement.

Finally I got the general sense that he was more interested in saving his own face and justifying his own decisions rather than the long-term bigger picture of the club. He mentioned the surprising amount of pushback and negativity he's had since taking charge in a way that made it seem like it was affecting him. He justified keeping Ten Hag and cited Ten Hag being involved in summer transfers by saying 'look at the Dutch players we signed' when most reports said that Ten Hag didn't want Zirkzee and was furious with him when he arrived at training. He cited the wage bill of the players Amorim has had available to him to justify why he's not doing as badly as it seems when the same rationale could presumably be applied to Ten Hag at various points this season and last. He seemed much more comfortable talking about the cuts and the financial side than the playing side ("look how much we're paying for players who don't / can't play for us etc"). That would be fine, as he's clearly not the person making all of the football decisions, but when he sacked the director of football he hired to make football decisions because he (reportedly) disagreed with his managerial suggestions and his preference for using analytics, then that's more of a problem.

In the whole interview I thought he seemed to be incoherent and self-preserving rather than somebody with the drive and skills needed to turn around Man Utd. "Things are really bad so we need austerity, but don't blame the Glazers or ask them to pay to fix it, they were just too nice and gave the previous appointees too much freedom and money". "Our staff have had it too easy and had too many perks for too long and somebody needs to crack the whip, why are you asking me about the much more costly mistakes I have made since I've come in, I've admitted they were mistakes, now let's concentrate on those skiving admin staff". "Of course I don't know all of the details of the next round of ticket rises I'm planning, anyway here is a 20 slide Powerpoint presentation on why the previous ticket rise was actually not a big deal and the media are making a fuss out of nothing".

I hope I'm wrong and I hope that he installs people who know how to run a top class football club, but at the moment I have seen very little to make me like or trust him, and the interview really soured my opinion of him and made me fearful of him having the strategy and answers to improve Man Utd.
Agreed with most of what you have taken away from the interview. Appreciate you articulating it so well too.

I hope we are both wrong too.
 
Because the stadium debt will be a completely separate affair and a money generating asset in its own right.

Barcelona were able to attract $310m for a 4 year deal on naming rights for an existing stadium which everybody continues to call the Nou Camp. Imagine what United could attract for a longer term deal on a brand new, so far unnamed stadium. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 20 year deal worth a billion at least.

Then we will invite investment from large retail and hospitality organisations for club owned space in the surrounding fan areas. There’s probably a couple of hundred million potentially there.

If they’re knocking down Old Trafford, you’d have to imagine they will sell some of that land for either commercial or residential development. That money can be used towards the stadium, or to pay down the debt.

An extra 25k tickets at £40 each is worth a million in additional ticket revenue per game, before we even look at improved hospitality and corporate facilities and better food, beverage and club retail services generating more matchday income.

I’d imagine there will be a debenture scheme where 5 or 10 year tickets, generally quite high value tickets as well, as sold ahead of time. I don’t know loads about these, other than the IRFU (Irish rugby) 10 year tickets sell for €15k a piece and that’s for only 5/6 home games a season. Sell a couple of thousand for United who get 30 home games each year and it’s a huge chunk of change.

The guaranteed extra matchday income can be ringfenced for a period of time to service any specific debt incurred on building the stadium, without having a negative effect on our recent operating figures.

I’d also like to think there’s an avenue via which Ineos can fund a portion in return for a higher shareholding, further reducing the amount we need to borrow and lessening the grip of the Glazers as well.
That figure includes the shirt sponsorship and training kit sponsorship. The stadium naming rights piece is quite small.
 
Probably the season ticket, the regular attendance and continued spending with the club every home game.

Being a supporter of the club means different things to different people. I’d also argue (albeit it’s just semantics) that there is a tangible difference between ‘fans’ and ‘supporters’.

I’m not one of them but I would agree with Jim that the core support in and around the Salford area and those who are regular match goers are more important (again, define important) than us fans who live outside of Manchester, or outside of the UK.
I think it's a debate best not touched with a barge pole by anyone, especially not by a billionaire who has recently bought shares in the club and raised ticket prices.

We can all agree that the views of a guy in Singapore who has a passing interest in football and bought a United kit because he liked Ronaldo's celebration he saw on TikTok once should be less of a concern to a club than a season ticket holder. But bringing region / nationality / match attendance (or basically any other metric) into it, is difficult.

Just to illustrate how difficult / pointless I think these sort of distinctions are (without derailing the conversation too much hopefully)...

The last time I've sat in an executive box at Old Trafford was after being invited by my cousin. He's a local lad and has got an executive box and 2 season tickets in the Stretford End, so he's presumably what Ratcliffe was talking about as a 'proper supporter' in the Neville interview. Despite attending every game, he had absolutely no interest in football growing up and barely cares about it now except for how it can help him impress potential clients for his business and project the image of him as a local football fan done good.

Compare that to some of the posters on here who can give you their top 5 United academy prospects for every age bracket and have an opinion on why United should sign an obscure French wing back to be more effective at breaking the low block, despite either hoping to go to OT one day or perhaps have only been once or twice.

Perhaps my cousin represents a bigger financial supporter of United than the other guy, but I don't think one is more important / more of a fan than the other. I mean, playing devil's advocate, every PL team has a decently sized local following. The thing that sets United apart is that we also have an enormous number of fans from across the UK and across the world. By some metrics, you could say that the overseas supporters have contributed more to United's success than the locals, since they provide something unique to United and a few other clubs and helped give the club the financial backing to dominate in the PL era.

Anyway, digression aside, I agree that it's all subjective. None of us should be concerned with who the most 'proper supporter' is, and we should all hold hands and create a cuddle puddle.
 
Ok, thanks for the response.

If I misrepresented him talking about the club running out of cash by Christmas, I apologise. But I still think he knows what he is doing when he says that.

Such a telling part was when talking about the ticket price increases, the way he squirmed and tried to move the blame around just looked pathetic to me. Especially when he is cutting jobs all around the place. If you believe that the ticket prices need to go up for the club, then stand behind it with your chest, don't start saying "it was a club decision, not my decision". That is not the sort of leadership I would want to see.

Anyway, the interview is the interview. What matters is where the club is going in the next few years. I hope you are more right about him than I am at the moment.

Yeah he knew what he was doing, giving us some transparency which we have been calling for for how many years.

There is no point asking for communication, when it comes you dont believe it?

He didn't squirm it, he said ticket prices will go up but those decisions as to hoe much have not yet been made.

Well as an owner, you employ a CEO and all other staff, not all the decisions are going to be his, surely you know this? He doesn't approve every penny that is saved or spent.
 
That interview actually gave me more confidence about the future than listening to any of our managers post SAF.

It may not work out but at least it's clear Ratcliffe/Ineos have a plan. They recognize the pitfalls and are working towards avoiding them. In any sport there can be no guarantees of success, but Ratcliffe to me came across as someone who is able to recognize the core issues surrounding the club and has his finger on the pulse.

If someone was expecting him to elaborate on the Glazers, that can't happen as it was widely reported there were legal clauses stating both Glazers and Ineos wouldn't criticize each other in public. Also, regarding Ashworth it's clear it didn't work out so no point engaging in mud slinging.
Ineos and the Glazers aren't going to critical of each other in public as a matter of course. There is no legal impediment though. That only pertained to the period before the deal was completed.
 
Yeah he knew what he was doing, giving us some transparency which we have been calling for for how many years.

There is no point asking for communication, when it comes you dont believe it?

He didn't squirm it, he said ticket prices will go up but those decisions as to hoe much have not yet been made.

Well as an owner, you employ a CEO and all other staff, not all the decisions are going to be his, surely you know this? He doesn't approve every penny that is saved or spent.
Happy to leave the chat there, hope you are more right about him than I am.
 
I apologise in advance for the stream of consciousness/rant, but I have had a lot of thoughts bouncing around my head after watching the Neville interview. It will hopefully be cathartic to try and express them coherently, and if they are of any interest whatsoever to anybody else here, then that's a nice bonus.

Whilst I thought he generally came across very poorly and I am not filled with confidence by having him and his appointments in charge of running the club, I thought I'd start with the positives, or rather, the positive.

Credit to him for doing the interview and generally being more open and communicative with what he wants to do with the club. It's far more in a year than we've ever got from the Glazers in two decades, and it's worth saying that it's also more communication and engagement than most fans get from the owners of their club too. Whether that's actually a good thing or not is debateable. Whilst most would agree that communication is better than radio silence and bringing the fans along with you is important, I think most fans would rather the quiet competence of David Gill / Man City than communicative incompetence. Also, the fact that things got to the state where he felt the need to arrange a long-form interview to try and push back against the negative PR and poor results is probably quite telling in itself. Nevertheless, communicative incompetence is still better than radio silent/disintrested incompetence, so him even bothering to face some degree of public scrutiny for his actions is an improvement on the Glazers, and any further attempts to build bridges with the fan groups will be welcome.

Now for the things that annoyed me...

First, the obvious one that I'm sure has been covered a lot. The fact that he acted genuinely surprised when Neville suggested that his £40k cut to the Players Association could be made up by a sponsored dinner or a raffle is staggering. It's not exactly 4D chess to deploy the same fundraising approach that Man Utd have been doing for years for charitable events. Whether it honestly had never occurred to him or not, saying that he had not thought of a fundraising effort employed by every pub team in the country to do an event and raffle off some signed shirts is not a good look, as the kids would say.

Secondly, his waffle about 'real supporters' was cringeworthy, tone deaf and insulting. A billionaire tax exile who has increased ticket prices and made staff redundant having the gall to speak on what a 'proper supporter' is will never go down well with me. What makes a season ticket holder who goes to every game more of a 'proper supporter' than a guy across the world who gets up in the middle of the night to watch every game and spends a small fortune to make a pilgrimage to Old Trafford whenever he can afford it? It's also deeply cynical since his business model will almost certainly involve appealing to the overseas fans as they are the ones who will spend more in the megastore, do the tours etc. It came across as a cheap ploy to divide fans and obfuscate his ticket price increase by appealing to the 'proper supporters' not affected by the recent concessions hike.

I found his answers on the ticket price rises to be very unconvincing in general. At one point, he said that he didn't know the exact details of the price rises, at another he cited the specific number of impacted tickets to rebuke the bad PR they got for removing concessions. One moment he'd say that ticket prices will have to increase next season as it's a key way to increase United's income, the next he'd talk about how he wants to reward and recognise the contribution of 'proper supporters' as the Stretford End helps the team win, or something like that. It came across to me as the 'we're all in it together' nonsense we had with austerity, mixed with the divide and rule stuff I mentioned earlier. "Don't be angry at ticket prices, you are one of the 'proper supporters' - even if you are affected, you should be happy to pay more because you know you are doing your duty to help the team that we all care so deeply about, so say I, billionaire owner who tried to buy Chelsea a few months ago".

The concept he was floating to charge fans from overseas (or wealthy fans generally) more for tickets just seems unworkable and daft, too.

Next, something that really got under my skin was the claim he made about how you need your management team and decision makers in place in order to know who to cut, because you want to cut the unproductive people not the good people. This is personal, and may bother me more due to my political persuasion, but I hate this entire notion. I think at this point we're all familiar with 40 years of neoliberalism to know how this script goes. Somehow, the senior managers and their reviews always conclude that their high salaries and bonuses are essential, but we need to trim the fat from the precarious little people, who need to do more with less. It's firing and rehiring, doing more with less and outsourcing more so you don't have as many employees who want unreasonable things like a living wage or workers rights.

Not only do I disagree with it on a moral level, but I'm also highly sceptical that it is the best way to run a football club. Modern football seems to be as much about the intangibles and overall competence as any industry I can think of. The general morale of the training ground staff, caterers, admin team etc presumably has an impact on the morale of your team of 11 millionaires. Especially since modern footballers seem to be so coddled and divorced from reality, having a club that is staffed to provide a wrap around structure to make your squad of 20+ players from around the world feel as taken care of and available to perform is presumably more important than ever. I'm not saying we should throw a Rio carnivale for Casemiro each week or hire one of those sad Portuguese ladies to serenade Bruno Fernandes as he eats his pasta each day, but the idea of 'efficiency saving your way to a league title' seems like an oxymoron.

Then there's the headline grabbing claim - that United would run out of money before Christmas if they didn't implement Big Jim's cut backs and redundancies. At face value, this is absurd. If it was true, then it would raise serious questions of Jim's professional integrity, especially since United is a publicly traded company on the NYSE. The fact that it's something he just blurts out as a flippant comment at an interview rather than something he's raised and informed the shareholders and the NYSE in filings is staggering. If it was actually true or meant anything, then he would have a raft of issues from a compliance standpoint about failure to disclose, misrepresentation, director's duties and potentially even wrongful trading. He would have real questions to answer about spending millions to sack Dan Ashworth and Ten Hag and the money spent on transfers in the summer. If United was going to run out of money by Christmas, then they wouldn't have spent £250m on players (the largest single cost for a club) less than 12 months ago. In any event, you can see the claim is false just by looking at United's balance sheet. It seems something he thought of on the spot to try and justify cuts and redundancies that he likely always wanted to make, without thinking through the logic or the longer term effect of the statement.

Finally I got the general sense that he was more interested in saving his own face and justifying his own decisions rather than the long-term bigger picture of the club. He mentioned the surprising amount of pushback and negativity he's had since taking charge in a way that made it seem like it was affecting him. He justified keeping Ten Hag and cited Ten Hag being involved in summer transfers by saying 'look at the Dutch players we signed' when most reports said that Ten Hag didn't want Zirkzee and was furious with him when he arrived at training. He cited the wage bill of the players Amorim has had available to him to justify why he's not doing as badly as it seems when the same rationale could presumably be applied to Ten Hag at various points this season and last. He seemed much more comfortable talking about the cuts and the financial side than the playing side ("look how much we're paying for players who don't / can't play for us etc"). That would be fine, as he's clearly not the person making all of the football decisions, but when he sacked the director of football he hired to make football decisions because he (reportedly) disagreed with his managerial suggestions and his preference for using analytics, then that's more of a problem.

In the whole interview I thought he seemed to be incoherent and self-preserving rather than somebody with the drive and skills needed to turn around Man Utd. "Things are really bad so we need austerity, but don't blame the Glazers or ask them to pay to fix it, they were just too nice and gave the previous appointees too much freedom and money". "Our staff have had it too easy and had too many perks for too long and somebody needs to crack the whip, why are you asking me about the much more costly mistakes I have made since I've come in, I've admitted they were mistakes, now let's concentrate on those skiving admin staff". "Of course I don't know all of the details of the next round of ticket rises I'm planning, anyway here is a 20 slide Powerpoint presentation on why the previous ticket rise was actually not a big deal and the media are making a fuss out of nothing".

I hope I'm wrong and I hope that he installs people who know how to run a top class football club, but at the moment I have seen very little to make me like or trust him, and the interview really soured my opinion of him and made me fearful of him having the strategy and answers to improve Man Utd.
Indeed. It was self serving balderdash to reinforce the idea that cuts needed to made (financial imperative) and for the greater good of the club (moral imperative). No proof was provided. And he spoke to something he could not possible know. He can't know if we will qualify for the CL. If we do, then the club has 60+m in cash profits from the CL in 2026, equivalent, in cash terms, to roughly 2 years of cut savings. That's significant for summer spending- who we buy, who we sell, the team's performance, and all of that filters through the accounts- amortization, profit from selling players, deferred payments in and out, how heavily we have to use the overdraft.... and so on.
Or more likely we will not make CL and that will paint a different picture financially.
 
:p;)I think it's a debate best not touched with a barge pole by anyone, especially not by a billionaire who has recently bought shares in the club and raised ticket prices.
A fair point about the owner, especially when he is impacting the very people he claims to have a special regard for.
But bringing region / nationality / match attendance (or basically any other metric) into it, is difficult.
Disagree here, although maybe my view is a tad old school traditionalist. It’s probably more relevant to lower/non league football too where the match going fans are literally the lifeblood of the club. Maybe ‘important’ is the wrong description - I think the semantics can be difficult because it’s not a distinction that should be used to denigrate any fan. Maybe all fans are equal but some are more equal than others? :lol:
Anyway, digression aside, I agree that it's all subjective. None of us should be concerned with who the most 'proper supporter' is, and we should all hold hands and create a cuddle puddle.
Agree but I’ll pass on the cuddle thanks
 
Firstly thanks for breaking down the P&L, really helpful..but whilst I’m not defending the decisions they made but do want to point out they haven’t just targeted reducing operational costs.

INEOS have also targeted reducing player wage bills and to reduce the net player trading through shipping out the highest wages players on loan (and hopefully sell this summer), selling McTominay (pure profit), focusing on quality youth signings (chido, heaven). We’re also unfortunately hitting a stumbling block with kobbie renegotiations as we won’t allow the same costly mistake we made with rashford. I say unfortunate because it would also be sad to see one of our brightest youth players leave.

Even if we sell players this summer we’re still likely to make a loss on most; Antony, Sancho, Casemiro. Rashford £40m fee alone won’t help so with that already factored in, they are targeting other cost saving measures.

Don’t also dismiss that the lenders we’re going to have to go refinance from will be pushing United to become more solvent and will see these steps as necessary before considering to lend.
Sure, I get that. But unfortunately, we have increased the net player trading position in the current year due to the heavy expenditure in q1 2025. Our committed net spend from this year alone is around 200m.
I am not having a go at the quality of the transfer business, I am merely stating that out net player trading position (which doesn't include salaries) is brutal and that needs to change. We are on course for another P&l loss of 100m plus in the current year.
Your point about refinancing is well made. I wouldn't dare dismiss it. Indeed, I have mentioned that back at the time of the first refinancing post takeover (around 2006) the glazers went on a cost cutting binge to polish the books in advance of that refinancing in order to get better terms through having better EBITDA coverage. The terms in any refinancing is more about your capacity to repay the interest. Less capacity (less coverage) then the greater the interest. I am pretty sure though that this reason for the heavy cost cutting (refinancing the legacy LBO debt) isn't one that JR is going to mention publicly. As you are aware, the finance costs are one of the major reasons why we are making such big losses.
 
Sure, I get that. But unfortunately, we have increased the net player trading position in the current year due to the heavy expenditure in q1 2025. Our committed net spend from this year alone is around 200m.
I am not having a go at the quality of the transfer business, I am merely stating that out net player trading position (which doesn't include salaries) is brutal and that needs to change. We are on course for another P&l loss of 100m plus in the current year.
Your point about refinancing is well made. I wouldn't dare dismiss it. Indeed, I have mentioned that back at the time of the first refinancing post takeover (around 2006) the glazers went on a cost cutting binge to polish the books in advance of that refinancing in order to get better terms through having better EBITDA coverage. The terms in any refinancing is more about your capacity to repay the interest. Less capacity (less coverage) then the greater the interest. I am pretty sure though that this reason for the heavy cost cutting (refinancing the legacy LBO debt) isn't one that JR is going to mention publicly. As you are aware, the finance costs are one of the major reasons why we are making such big losses.
On the refinancing piece, we have $425MM maturing in June 2027, at 3.79% interest.

Currently, investment-grade corporate bond yields range from 4.8% (AAA) to 5.4% (BBB). So unless Treasury yields significantly come down in the next two years (very unlikely, probably the opposite in fact), our annual interest payments are about to go up quite a bit when we refinance.