Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[TheNewEra]

So much crap being spoken in this thread. There’s no way Ratcliffe has come in to trim the fat and help the Glazers sell the club. I’m pretty sure he payed above value for his shares to begin with, but why get involved with something like this for what will be small returns? Why not just keep ETH and save money? Why hire and fire Ashworth? Because that tells me that they’re trying to find something that works. It cost money, it didn’t save money. So why would they do any of that if they’re not trying to simply find solutions that work?

The quality of some of the posts these days are rock bottom. The bed wetting is ridiculous. Be angry at their decisions to increase ticket prices, cut payments to support ex players, whatever. But let’s not pretend this is all some elaborate scheme to help sell the club for the Glazers. It just defies logic, especially when he’s invested over a billion quid that he’s unlikely to recoup unless things drastically change with the club and the team.

I think Ineos are setting us up to be sustainable personally the January market was painful and necessary.

We are signing young talents globally now too it's a welcome change

 

[pocco]

I think Ineos are setting us up to be sustainable personally the January market was painful and necessary.

We are signing young talents globally now too it's a welcome change

I agree. When they took over at Nice they said they wanted to learn the in’s and out’s of running a football club and they wanted to set the club up to be self sufficient. Like you said, I think they’re taking the first step to making us sustainable, and if we can tap into our own revenue to operate instead of relying on credit etc, then great. That’s what everyone has wanted for a long time, it was the whole premise of the anti glazer/green and gold ideology. We don’t need a sugar daddy if we’re well run. It’s a travesty how we find ourselves in the financial situation we do really, so hopefully that changes.

 

[Matt851]

Leaks aside, I do not see how Ashworth or anyone in that role would add value (which is why we havent replaced him and likely wont).
His exit was in no small part because he was redundant in remit. We had someone for transfers, someone for a game model from academy, someone to help academy transition to senior football and a CEO.

What would Ashworth do in that case, outside of recruiting the next manager?

I guess what many were hoping for when we recruited him was that we woukd get someone who could lead recruitment linking woth scouts and data people ans have connections across Europe to help facilitate transfers. To that end I would have preferred someone with a stronger CV than wilcox. At the moment I fear we have non football people calling a lot of the shots over transfers

 

[ForeverRed1]

I mean it’s not nice and it’s not pretty but unfortunately the club is in a dire situation financially.


We have to have patience and lots of it, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

 

[croadyman]

Both incredibly young. I doubt Leon is in the first team next season.

Yeah would think they are still hoping to get a Kerkez/Ait-Nouri in summer but neither are cheap

 

[lolok]

I think Ineos are setting us up to be sustainable personally the January market was painful and necessary.

We are signing young talents globally now too it's a welcome change

^^ This.

The club isn't turning a profit and has a lot of debt. Someone has to come in and cut costs to help get the club back on the right track financially. Lets be real-- the previous regime would have paid 55mm for Dorgu and handed him a 120,000 per week contract. Ineos didn't get the club into this debt, but they are working to get them out, and they are the bad guys to some. Sound logic. Imagine going into 100,000 pound credit card debt, and a financial advisor is telling you that you need to cut back on spending and you accuse them of being the bad guy. It's not fun to cut spending, but it is necessary when you are broke.

I'm looking forward to the approach of buying young, cheaper talent vs the transfer policy the past few years of paying over the odds for mediocre talent.

 

[croadyman]

^^ This.

The club isn't turning a profit and has a lot of debt. Someone has to come in and cut costs to help get the club back on the right track financially. Lets be real-- the previous regime would have paid 55mm for Dorgu and handed him a 120,000 per week contract. Ineos didn't get the club into this debt, but they are working to get them out, and they are the bad guys to some. Sound logic. Imagine going into 100,000 pound credit card debt, and a financial advisor is telling you that you need to cut back on spending and you accuse them of being the bad guy. It's not fun to cut spending, but it is necessary when you are broke.

I'm looking forward to the approach of buying young, cheaper talent vs the transfer policy the past few years of paying over the odds for mediocre talent.

They are the bad guys in my eyes due to keeping Ten Hag after Cup Final because of fan sentiment

 

[McFred]

I guess what many were hoping for when we recruited him was that we woukd get someone who could lead recruitment linking woth scouts and data people ans have connections across Europe to help facilitate transfers. To that end I would have preferred someone with a stronger CV than wilcox. At the moment I fear we have non football people calling a lot of the shots over transfers

Former Premier League winner & head of Man City Academy Jason Wilcox doesn’t count as a football person?

 

[sglowrider]

I mean it’s not nice and it’s not pretty but unfortunately the club is in a dire situation financially.


We have to have patience and lots of it, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

And part their own doing, paying off ETH and then Ashworth. What does it say about their ability to manage the club? Poor insights to the former manager's performance and poor due diligence on the part of the former DoF?

How much was that? 30million?

How many transfer or potential loan fees is that worth?

 

[croadyman]

And part their own doing, paying off ETH and then Ashworth. What does it say about their ability to manage the club? Poor insights to the former manager's performance and poor due diligence on the part of the former DoF?

How much was that? 30million?

How many transfer or potential loan fees is that worth?

Well that could have got us David I reckon as he only had 6 months left on contract, also a loan midfielder like Douglas Luiz but academic now

 

[sglowrider]

Well that could have got us David I reckon as he only had 6 months left on contract, also a loan midfielder like Douglas Luiz but academic now

Agree. But doesnt make it any better. I am still fuming, and I rarely stay this miffed this long.

 

[croadyman]

Agree. But doesnt make it any better. I am still fuming, and I rarely stay this miffed this long.

Yeah feel exactly the same way, particularly when INEOS had decided to sack after 4-0 at Palace. I just knew if we beat City many fans would say let's give him another chance and INEOS fell for the emotion.

 

[Cloud7]

Leaks aside, I do not see how Ashworth or anyone in that role would add value (which is why we havent replaced him and likely wont).
His exit was in no small part because he was redundant in remit. We had someone for transfers, someone for a game model from academy, someone to help academy transition to senior football and a CEO.

What would Ashworth do in that case, outside of recruiting the next manager?

Yep. It did seem a bit strange by the time Ashworth came on board, that we already had people covering the responsibilities he was supposed to cover, so you were then left wondering what exactly does he do?

 

[UzbekRed]

How on Earth will INEOS will make us sustainable with the debt that we have and supposedly a new stadium? Do any of us find it to be realistic that we become sustainable and are able to challenge for major trophies in 3-4 years time without any major investment from owners?

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

They are the bad guys in my eyes due to keeping Ten Hag after Cup Final because of fan sentiment

Aye that was a horrendous decision at the time and we’ll be feeling the effects of it for a few years to come.

 

[Matt851]

Former Premier League winner & head of Man City Academy Jason Wilcox doesn’t count as a football person?

Of course he does, my worry is that he doesn't have as much influence as someone with a bigger profile might. There was quite a lot of info about amorim being a berrada appointment at the time he was hired and berrada definitely isn't a football person.

You would also be hard pushed to describe wilcox as best in class in the role he is now in. Unfortunately winning a pl title 20 odd years ago doesn't help with this

 

[Matt851]

They are the bad guys in my eyes due to keeping Ten Hag after Cup Final because of fan sentiment

Yes this was incredibly dumb. Especially as they are so keen to project an image of not being afraid to make unpopular decisions

 

[PlasticRed]

Is everybody enjoying PSR yet? It was brought in to stop Man City buying the league. Yet Man City have the highest revenues and can go and spend £200m+ in January whilst everyone else struggles. United cant buy shit, neither can most clubs.

Youth players being touted to balance the books (Garnacho, Mainoo). The January window virtually non existent.

I repeat. PSR is an American sports style salary cap disguised as fair play, incorporated to protect tight fisted owners from spending big money on transfers.

What say the cafe?

 

[hellhunter]

Is everybody enjoying PSR yet? It was brought in to stop Man City buying the league. Yet Man City have the highest revenues and can go and spend £200m+ in January whilst everyone else struggles. United cant buy shit, neither can most clubs.

Youth players being touted to balance the books (Garnacho, Mainoo). The January window virtually non existent.

I repeat. PSR is an American sports style salary cap disguised as fair play, incorporated to protect tight fisted owners from spending big money on transfers.

What say the cafe?

Clearly the issue you line out is with City's fake income, not the system?

 

[PlasticRed]

Clearly the issue you line out is with City's fake income, not the system?

They've won 8 league titles, 3 FA Cups, 6 League Cups and 1 Champions League in 14 years.

The horse has bolted.

 

[mav_9me]

For your defending INEOS I have one question.

We couldn't have gotten a striker on loan for the rest of the season?

 

[Chairman Steve]

One key difference between Glazers and Ratcliffe.

Glazers haven’t spent a dime of their own money in their whole tenure. They’re spending the club’s money hence why they have had such a passive nature about the whole thing, and eventually it fecked them.

Ratcliffe has spent his money to buy a sizeable stake in the club with his own money (i.e. his company) and because it’s his money, he’s going to want results pretty soon.

I’d rather have the self-made billionaire running us than the trust-fund beneficiaries of a self-made billionaire.

 

[Cassidy]

Even if that rumour wasnt true (which allegedly was the reason he didn’t get a move to Chelsea) he’s still on nearly 4 times more than the other guy. So United could bump his salary up to 120k per week for example x3 his current) and it still would be 80k short of osimhens current wage.
Madness if you think that they will be in the same salary

Napolis asking price was the reason, its well documented.

Yes one guy signed from Coventry the other was already seen as one of the best CFs in football. Now Goyekers is seen as one of the best CFs in football, you are not going to get a wage discount when multiple clubs want to sign him this summer.
If anything its the Osimhen market that has been diminished

 

[VP89]

Of course he does, my worry is that he doesn't have as much influence as someone with a bigger profile might. There was quite a lot of info about amorim being a berrada appointment at the time he was hired and berrada definitely isn't a football person.

You would also be hard pushed to describe wilcox as best in class in the role he is now in. Unfortunately winning a pl title 20 odd years ago doesn't help with this

His influence is fine for his remit. He's done a good job it seems getting talents like the Arsenal pair and Kone into the academy.

Unsure why Berrada isn't a football person though.

 

[MadDogg]

When has Amorim changed the formation in a match? He's changed personnel and done it mostly better than ETH but the system doesn't change.

He has changed to a back four for 10-15 minutes in two recent matches. Once against Southampton and also against....Palace I think, but it may have been a different match. In both cases the RWB (Amad both times) stayed much higher both in and out of possession, with the RCB then moving across to cover the wider position.

It's not like it's a huge change, but that's all that has to happen to change it to more of a 4231 instead of the 3421. Like I said it was only for a short period in both matches when we were really hunting for a goal, but it'll be interesting to see if it happens more often going forward (at least until we get more players suited to the system).

 

[Matt851]

His influence is fine for his remit. He's done a good job it seems getting talents like the Arsenal pair and Kone into the academy.

Unsure why Berrada isn't a football person though.

Berrada is slightly more of a football person than Ed woodward but basically just a commercial guy not sure what would make him qualified to identify and select a new coach

 

[VP89]

Berrada is slightly more of a football person than Ed woodward but basically just a commercial guy not sure what would make him qualified to identify and select a new coach

I agree with this but I don't think it was him making the decision in isolation. I think there were other people involved including Blanc and Wilcox.

 

[golden_blunder]

Napolis asking price was the reason, its well documented.

Yes one guy signed from Coventry the other was already seen as one of the best CFs in football. Now Goyekers is seen as one of the best CFs in football, you are not going to get a wage discount when multiple clubs want to sign him this summer.
If anything its the Osimhen market that has been diminished

Multiple clubs aren’t going to quadruple his wage, they just aren’t, whereas osimhen is obviously going to want more than his current wage. The latter will command more money this summer.

I think we will have to disagree because I don’t agree at all with your opinion and you don’t agree with mine

Edit: regards osimhen, he had agreed personal terms with a Saudi club (probably where 400k pw came from), but that club pulled out and signed Toney instead citing that Napoli were changing the deal.
Cheisea agreed a fee with Napoli but couldn’t agree personal terms because he didn’t want to accept less than he was on (and presumably had the higher offer still in his head).
At this point Napoli lost patience with the striker that they valued one time at 150m. They made no bones that they didn’t want him or his agent anywhere near them. The only deal that could get rid of him for a year was a loan to Gala. So here we are.

 

[kundalini]

For your defending INEOS I have one question.

We couldn't have gotten a striker on loan for the rest of the season?

If loans were the medium to long term answer then the guy who loaned Weghorst, Sabitizer, Amrabat and Reguilon might still be the manager.

We are trying to make decisions that will help the club next season and beyond, even if there is a heavy cost involved this season. The manager is discovering which players can contribute to his project going forward. Those highly unlikely to be here next season are getting limited playing time.

There is still a small chance that either Hojlund or Zirkzee get their act together before the end of this season. If they continue to perform poorly then at least we know that a new striker should be a top priority in the summer.

In case you may not have noticed, clubs rarely give United a good deal. Almost every incoming transfer, loan or permanent, costs United more than if another team were involved.

United have spent recklessly and made a huge number of short term decisions since appointing LVG, perhaps even Moyes (Rooney contract, Mata signing). In hindsight, so many of them look absolutely terrible.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

For your defending INEOS I have one question.

We couldn't have gotten a striker on loan for the rest of the season?

Apparently, for Ineos defender we can't even afford the loan or take the risks with loan now as we need to be very prudent so that we can spend money in the summer where there will be more value in the market.

 

[Godfather]

If loans were the medium to long term answer then the guy who loaned Weghorst, Sabitizer, Amrabat and Reguilon might still be the manager.

I'd take Sabitzer Amrabat and Regulion right back on loan again for the rest of the season

 

[Cassidy]

Apparently, for Ineos defender we can't even afford the loan or take the risks with loan now as we need to be very prudent so that we can spend money in the summer where there will be more value in the market.

At the risk of missing out on European football for next season and further damaging summer transfer plans due to diminished future revenue.
Probably made more sense not to let go of 2 attacking players incase of injuries in that case then

 

[MaMa given red]

Is everybody enjoying PSR yet? It was brought in to stop Man City buying the league. Yet Man City have the highest revenues and can go and spend £200m+ in January whilst everyone else struggles. United cant buy shit, neither can most clubs.

Youth players being touted to balance the books (Garnacho, Mainoo). The January window virtually non existent.

I repeat. PSR is an American sports style salary cap disguised as fair play, incorporated to protect tight fisted owners from spending big money on transfers.

What say the cafe?

Do you realise that if we didn't have PSR then the likes of Newcastle and City could outspend us on a scale that we couldn't even get close too.

The reason 'United can't buy shit' Is because we have spent all our money on shit for many many years!

We have spent roughly the same as Man City this season! In the summer we spent around £180m on Yoro, Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Zirkzee and then another £20m on Dorgu in January. How much money do you seriously expect to spend in one season?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[We Are Manchester United]

I'd take Sabitzer Amrabat and Regulion right back on loan again for the rest of the season

Amrabat = the worst midfielder in United's history. He was utter garbage.

 

[Amir]

At the risk of missing out on European football for next season and further damaging summer transfer plans due to diminished future revenue.
Probably made more sense not to let go of 2 attacking players incase of injuries in that case then

Amorin clearly doesn't want Rashford and chose not to use him for 12 games straight or so while Antony is useless to us. So what would have been the point in keeping them?

 

[croadyman]

If loans were the medium to long term answer then the guy who loaned Weghorst, Sabitizer, Amrabat and Reguilon might still be the manager.

We are trying to make decisions that will help the club next season and beyond, even if there is a heavy cost involved this season. The manager is discovering which players can contribute to his project going forward. Those highly unlikely to be here next season are getting limited playing time.

There is still a small chance that either Hojlund or Zirkzee get their act together before the end of this season. If they continue to perform poorly then at least we know that a new striker should be a top priority in the summer.

In case you may not have noticed, clubs rarely give United a good deal. Almost every incoming transfer, loan or permanent, costs United more than if another team were involved.

United have spent recklessly and made a huge number of short term decisions since appointing LVG, perhaps even Moyes (Rooney contract, Mata signing). In hindsight, so many of them look absolutely terrible.

Know he's not ready in most sensible fans eyes (I'm not) but need Obi-Martin fast tracked so we can see less of Statler & Waldorf up front until the summer.