We passed on Tels, passed Bailey and passed on Nkunku, that’s 3
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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100%. There is no way he had to leave because he wasn't 'decisive' as insinuated by Ratcliffe. Otherwise, they are really poor at doing their due diligence.
They will know the impression it would give; being on gardening leave longer than being at the actual job isnt a good look any way you spin it.
This line of thought never makes sense to me. Injuries aren't a thing? We've sometimes put 2 goalies on the bench instead of Rashford. I seriously doubt Heaton is a good forward.
Frankly, the ownership issue is a mess. You have 2 parties who do not trust each other and compiled a 1000 hour lawyered governance agreement to prevent either from screwing the other over. And a minority shareholder having complete autonomy over the football side of things is just bonkers. That type of compartmentalization doesn't work in real life. The whole thing is a marriage of inconvenience between 2 parties with fundamentally different motives. Ownership needs to be resolved because the current format is an impediment to the work that needs to be done to turn our fortunes around.
Ideally, the owners need to deal with the dollar debt sooner rather than later.
A fair chunk of it ($400+m) is fixed and on benign terms, but that needs to be refinanced by 2027. The other chunk ($225m) is variable (around 6%) and needs to be settled by 2029.
Our transfer debt is being managed by a few variable rate credit cards (RCFS) currently running at around 7% when used. Additionally we are paying a margin for the unused portions, once the credit cards are activated. So players bought since Covid are contributing not only to amortization, and wage costs, but also to interest costs as well. The variable rates have jumped pushing up our overall interest payable by about 100%. We need to wean ourselves off the cards, and that can only be accomplished by not buying expensive players when the cash flows aren't there to support it.
It's hard to envisage us seeking a full debt financing for a new stadium while still burdened with both the dollar debt (or offspring thereof) and the RCFS. The revenue and EBITDA uplift needed by then to secure affordable funding is just not bankable. Amorim would need to be Fergie on steroids. And I am not being flippant. Ultimately, as we saw with Fergie under the Glazers, the most important driver of footballing and financial success isn't the owners, directors, CEOS, CFOS, Mr Marginal Gain, the Woodwards, the Arnolds. It's the manager.
As to the debt, I would be optimistic that the club would call on its ongoing registration with the Sec to issue new A shares to the tune of $400m and use the proceeds to take out one of the dollar debts. Maybe the variable chunk with the remainder partially funding the transfer debt (and hence the RCFS). Both parties would need to okay it, as both would take a hit economically, but importantly neither would be impacted control wise.
In what world do you think that Amorim was going to recall Rashford even if injuries? He made it very clear he wouldn’t be picking him and the reasons why. Instead he referred to a lot of pain that we would be going through. There’s no way Rashford was getting back short of a personality transplant. Anthony probably if there was injury because nobody could ever question his work ethic at least. But there was a chance to put him in the shop window and we rightly took it
'Heya, Jas, you still have that big pile of dodgy cash?'
Phone hangs up.
For us supporters more like.
Reports Brailsford now more involved again since Ashworth left across the media yesterday/today. Supposedly there is a big push re a plan around nutrition and training using Team Sky's James Morton which to be honest couldn't be worse than whatever our fitness team is doing now. Finally maybe we get those inhalers.
Thing is the academy has been good over the past few years with Nick Cox so Wilcox even coming in for that wasn’t needed and he’d only just taken over the role of Sporting Director at Southampton which was the first time he’d held such a role, outside of his relationship with Berrada when Wilcox was in charge of City’s academy him coming in didn’t make much sense whereas Ashworth made much more sense.
It all just smacks of us repeating the mistakes of the past and having our directors and CEO’s wanting to run on pitch things things and make footballing decisions that they’re not qualified to do, Ineos and Berrada have been in a year now and outside of a one off match in the FA Cup final which had zero to do with Ineos they’ve been a catastrophic disaster and unless they knock it out of the park in the summer I think Amorim will be gone by Christmas and we’ll be in an even bigger mess than when Ineos came in.
That was a very interesting read. Thank you.
Coming up to the 20th anniversary of Glazer ownership.
Any fan-led 'commemoration' plans afoot?
Any fan-led 'commemoration' plans afoot?
Not sure I follow, Morton is not mentioned?
He was at Sky pre Ineos I believe when they won most of their titles and was at Pool before as a nutritionist. I think we all agree Brailsford is a disaster, but more interested about the person actually qualified to do the job.
Brailsford shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near footballing decisions seeing as he’s a fecking cycling coach who is friendly with Ratcliffe through the Ineos cycling team which saw a massive decline, Ineos deserve every bit of failure they’re going to have at United after making so many horrific decisions and allowing CEO’s and directors to make footballing decisions just like Woodward and Arnold did.
Ahh sorry I misunderstood your post mate. I dont mind Morton, my worry is indeed Brailsford.
Fly a plan across Old Trafford with a banner "Glazers Out"
No worries - link
A lot of buzzwords and even an admission fans will be sceptical but the guy has top level football/cycling experience, a PhD and, most importantly, I was relieved to see he is not a scouser as I had initially assumed given he worked for Pool and studied there.
Brailsford can do one though, can't stand the guy.
I keep seeing this thrown around and I don't necessarily agree.
Sky were hugely successful having the best Tour de France rider of the decade at that point in Froome. They always have been a team that almost solely focused on said Tour de France with the exception of couple of riders. They won it 7 times between 2012 and 2019. They also had a big financial advantage to other teams. The last time they won it was (already Ineos by that time) with Bernal in 2019, who seemed destined to win it multiple times until his terrible crash of which he never recovered.
In come the UAE's of this world, poaching the best riders because their budgets are so much higher than others. UAE is like a galacticos team. One of Pogacar and Vingegaard have won the Tour de France in the last 5 years, begin exceptional talents. Pogacar is probably the best rider we've seen in the last 20/30 years. Then you have Van Aert, Van der Poel, who take that much classics there isn't too much left for others.
They have taken a different approach and have become a team to fight on all fronts. In 2023 they had 38 wins. They have some of the biggest talents in the world.
It's such different circumstances in the cycling world between the Sky and Ineos era's that it's incredibly hard to compare both.
I see that you conveniently left out short term. Loans can be a short-term answer to help with squad depth in the attack.
It's quite possible that we have not got any reasonable loans, and most didn't make sense with the costs involved. In that case I wouldn't blame INEOS. But without knowing that as the reason, right now it looks to me that them not getting an attack on loan is a sign of incompetence
Not sure what those short term decisions that you speak of have to do with the 6 month loan of an attacker.
I wanted a loan for the manager's sake more than anything. I want him to do well and get given time, but he's said himself he's got to win time and he can't keep getting these results forever.
If we continue like this and he starts next season poorly too I imagine he'll be on the verge of the sack, whereas if a loan had helped him finish this season well it would have given him a bit more breathing room.
If we continue like this and he starts next season poorly too I imagine he'll be on the verge of the sack, whereas if a loan had helped him finish this season well it would have given him a bit more breathing room.
Even without Pogacar and Vingegaard, who are indeed special talents, there are alot of other issues it seems.
This is a quote from a former staff member:
This has been a worry of mine, that they act like a business and dont really understand football, or sport in general.
Possibly, but the criticism was on Brailsford, who was the manager of Sky since 2010, 9!! years before the Ineos takeover.
It’s hard to see what either gain from the current stalemate, INEOS can’t really invest to solve some of these problems and the new stadium is a bit of a pipe dream really.
The club is in such a state that the Glazers are not going to see the value of their shares raise anytime soon, especially as SJR already paid an inflated price.
It would appear likely that there will have to be a new share issuance or the Glazers either sell up or accept more investment from SJR and dilute their holding slightly. It’s not really beneficial or sustainable long term but there is a danger it’s just becomes a bit of a standoff.
They’ve certainly made some pretty huge mistakes so far and I can’t say I’m particularly blown away by them thus far .. but I do think you got to give it a few years before totally writing them off.
They will make mistakes, go through personnel, hire the wrong people, make some questionable signings.. that’s a given. There’s no magic stick giving perfection but what we do need to see is progress and investment beyond just chucking money at expensive players. (The strategy of the last 12 years) and actually invest in the future.
Can they build the foundations now so that in 3/4 years we’re competitive ? That’s the question.
INEOS make Manchester United academy cuts
https://centredevils.co.uk/news/ineos-make-manchester-united-academy-cuts/
https://centredevils.co.uk/news/ineos-make-manchester-united-academy-cuts/
So basically the FA Youth Cup game against Chelsea is being played at Leigh Sports Village, instead of Old Trafford. I've got no problem with that. The game against them in 2018 at Leigh was a cracker!
Clickbait
A FA Youth Cup tie against Chelsea moved. I would have thought they'd have had a good turn out for that.
When did they move Youth Cup games to Leigh? I remember as a kid going to those games at OT and there was always a huge crowd.
Had to scroll up to read before realising Pogacar and Vingegaard are real people and not made up cyclist versions of Pogba and Lingard.
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problem is cycling is easy. even kids can do it. football is a different ball game.
because UAE with better structure spent more than Ineos hence the downfall of SKY cycling team.
Similarly Jasim would have spent more on UTD so we could have become a better team with new stadium without debt.
It's not all about money, though. INEOS had a truly terrible season in 2024 with six Worldtour wins. They achieved far less than you'd expect with their - still quite large - budget.
But they failed with the cycling team project
What's a Jasim? Some bloke who didn't have the funds to buy us, right?
Yeah we needed a real full sale option
Dave Brailsford probably needs to go.
I think it's going to be a long turn around and that will cloud perceptions but all through the doom and gloom they have done some solid work. The recruitments have generally worked out, the manager situation was a mess and the less said about the DoF the better but getting things right will take time because the pressures associated with this club are and the ownership situation doesn't exactly help matters - the club won't be getting fresh capital until SJR becomes the majority owner and the question is how soon can he do it, does he even want to do it?
Baldist!
There's talk about the N4 car park and Stadium Point's land that we own being in the middle of the governments wharfside regeneration project meaning we'll be due a large payout from selling the land. Whether it'd be money directly in to the club to sort out PSR or not in the same fashion Chelsea selling hotels (although they sell them to themselves), or purely bargaining for some leeway needed with our regeneration nearer Old Trafford is yet to be seen.