Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

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I think part of what has made it a slow Summer in terms of transfers (incoming, but especially outgoing) is that INEOS are trying to change our perception out there in the market and they are extremely focused on 'winning' every deal. That's why we have made so many lowball bids in hope of acquiring players below what you'd normally expect us to pay, that's why we have been unable to offload some of our existing players too. This approach will inevitably make us much slower but will at the same time protect us from selling players too cheaply or acquiring them too expensively.

I don't think we have any particular goals for next season, it will be a test ride for team and the manager so patience is fine. We are realistically building more towards 2026-27 or even later. Realistically we are not getting close to be competing for league or CL in this decade anyway.
 
so the big question is Has INEOS underestimated the ability to sell players on from Man United?
 
Sarni said:
Realistically we are not getting close to be competing for league or CL in this decade anyway.
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If we aren’t competing for these trophies this decade then the ‘new ownership’ will have failed.
 
Stobzilla said:
I said a while ago to start mentally preparing yourselves for this year. It is going to be an absolute shit show

Not that I blame INEOS tbf, they have inherited an absolute rancid state of affairs from Woodward, Murtough and Arnold. Years of mismanagement is finally starting to rise to the surface. It is fixable, but it is going to need at least 4 windows AFTER this one before they've even really got their feet properly under the table.
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It won't be worse in the PL than the season just gone. As long as most of the squad stays fit and free from injury, the team will do much better in the league.
 
acnumber9 said:
If we aren’t competing for these trophies this decade then the ‘new ownership’ will have failed.
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We have not been a factor in either league or CL for more than a decade. Not expecting it to suddenly change over 4-5 years, especially as I expect INEOS to be extremely patient.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
It won't be worse in the PL than the season just gone. As long as most of the squad stays fit and free from injury, the team will do much better in the league.
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Not so sure about it to be honest. Either the fitness part (we already have some injuries) or us being much better with a fully fit team (we weren’t last year even at full strength).
 
bosskeano said:
so the big question is Has INEOS underestimated the ability to sell players on from Man United?
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It is all about the price. We have had offers for McTominay or Wan Bissaka, a fairly decent ones too, it is just that we want more.
 
Sarni said:
I think part of what has made it a slow Summer in terms of transfers (incoming, but especially outgoing) is that INEOS are trying to change our perception out there in the market and they are extremely focused on 'winning' every deal. That's why we have made so many lowball bids in hope of acquiring players below what you'd normally expect us to pay, that's why we have been unable to offload some of our existing players too. This approach will inevitably make us much slower but will at the same time protect us from selling players too cheaply or acquiring them too expensively.

I don't think we have any particular goals for next season, it will be a test ride for team and the manager so patience is fine. We are realistically building more towards 2026-27 or even later. Realistically we are not getting close to be competing for league or CL in this decade anyway.
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I think INEOS are throwing Ten Hag under the bus. This way, they get to make a statement to other clubs that we will not overpay/sell low, and get Ten Hag out and their new man in next summer, and dont have to spend much money this summer. Its a win/win/win for them.
 
Sarni said:
We have not been a factor in either league or CL for more than a decade. Not expecting it to suddenly change over 4-5 years, especially as I expect INEOS to be extremely patient.
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But they’re supposed to be heralding change. Good management should easily allow us to get to Arsenal’s level in that timeframe. Anything less isn’t good enough.
 
Highfather_24 said:
I think INEOS are throwing Ten Hag under the bus. This way, they get to make a statement to other clubs that we will not overpay/sell low, and get Ten Hag out and their new man in next summer, and dont have to spend much money this summer. Its a win/win/win for them.
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So basically you're making up a scenario that you pulled from your arse.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
So basically you're making up a scenario that you pulled from your arse.
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If we dont get any more signings in apart from Amrabat, it WILL be throwing ETH under the bus. I dont mind, since I'm not the biggest Ten Hag fan, but it is what it is. What I'm more pissed about is we are writing away the season too.

Unless ofcourse Ten Hag pulls off a miracle.
 
Absolutely absurd that people seem to be fine with it taking 5 years before we are good again, considering all history tells us competent people should be able to do so in 3 years at a big club (if assuming starting from scratch). Feels like people have been lulled into full on complacency these days
 
That "almost every player is up for sale" leak does seem an awfully long time ago.
 
The revelation that players who have had the +1 in their contracts triggered get half of any transfer fee plus the changes to FFP rules this year that prevent INEOS injecting their own cash does go a long way towards explaining the funereal pace of our activity. The light at the end of the tunnel is that many clubs are in as tough a position as us and there will be an inevitable reduction in asking price for some of our targets as we get closer to the deadline and clubs becomes desperate to sell. Patience is required but the waiting is torture.
 
Adisa said:
No takers. Nothing they can do about it.
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If they want Ten Hag to have a decent go at this year, they should be selling the players that have had interest, even if it's below what we value them at. We should also focus more on bringing players in on proper salaries, and be willing to spend a bit more on them. This whole cat and mouse show for De Ligt etc. is only going to hurt the start of our season.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah they definitely have
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They haven't. Go back and listen to Ratcliffe's interviews. Nobody thought we would be fixing our issues in the market in one window. The club have basically fecked themselves with high wages and poorly constructed contracts. Look at Casemiro, the club would love nothing more for him to go this summer and get his wages off the books but there's simply no takers. Saudi was the only option and they've pulled back their spending this summer.
Highfather_24 said:
Not true regarding AWB/McT. Not on big wages either.
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McTominay will be sold if Fulham up their bid by £5M. United want £25M which I would say is a fair asking price. AWB is complicated because of the pay out he's asking for and I also don't think he's very keen on going to West Ham. Laurie Whitwell seemed to hint on the devils podcast that he would like to go to Inter and they could come back in for him.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
McTominay will be sold if Fulham up their bid by £5M. United want £25M which I would say is a fair asking price. AWB is complicated because of the pay out he's asking for and I also don't think he's very keen on going to West Ham. Laurie Whitwell seemed to hint on the devils podcast that he would like to go to Inter and they could come back in for him.
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If there are no other bidders willing to go near 20M for McT, then United simply overplayed their hand. He has one year left on his contract. Its a big feck up if Fulham dont come back with a higher bid.

And we needed to be more ruthless with AWB. He's under no pressure to leave, tell him he's gonna spend the whole season in reserves, and he'll pack up pretty soon.

Anyway, the larger point is "No takers for our players", is just not true.
 
All our players walks around in their mansion screaming "Show me the money" to their agents. So even if accept a bid from another club the problem is still present since we have to pay a part of the players new salary or pay them off to leave. So all the bids have a deduction. :mad:
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Absolutely absurd that people seem to be fine with it taking 5 years before we are good again, considering all history tells us competent people should be able to do so in 3 years at a big club (if assuming starting from scratch). Feels like people have been lulled into full on complacency these days
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Tells you all you need to know about how much faith they have in the manager.
 
Sarni said:
I think part of what has made it a slow Summer in terms of transfers (incoming, but especially outgoing) is that INEOS are trying to change our perception out there in the market and they are extremely focused on 'winning' every deal. That's why we have made so many lowball bids in hope of acquiring players below what you'd normally expect us to pay, that's why we have been unable to offload some of our existing players too. This approach will inevitably make us much slower but will at the same time protect us from selling players too cheaply or acquiring them too expensively.

I don't think we have any particular goals for next season, it will be a test ride for team and the manager so patience is fine. We are realistically building more towards 2026-27 or even later. Realistically we are not getting close to be competing for league or CL in this decade anyway.
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They've already shown they're willing to overpay when it's arguably what they need to do, in the case of Yoro. Ugarte is just simply not good enough to justify the fee, both regarding current ability or potential ceiling. Branthwaite is questionable. I'm in the minority but I think ~65m for him is just a very slight overpay, he's that good. Potential ceiling and the fact he would likely stay with us for 8-10 years is also very attractive to us. Cash flow is also seemingly a problem, especially when the target has a release clause needed to be paid up front, like Zubimendi or Zirkzee.

Highfather_24 said:
I think INEOS are throwing Ten Hag under the bus. This way, they get to make a statement to other clubs that we will not overpay/sell low, and get Ten Hag out and their new man in next summer, and dont have to spend much money this summer. Its a win/win/win for them.
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That's why we paid €62m for an 18 year old, who's considered to be the greatest centre back talent on the planet. That's why they've brought in dozens of best-in-class football people. That's why they want to build a 100k seater stadium for billions of pounds. No ambition, they bought United and did all these things, but now don't want to spend on players, so they'll just play games and sabotage their own manager, which means sabotaging themselves and their own long-term project at the same time. Seems plausible...

It's crazy how people don't even consider how bad their conspiracy theories hold up even if they just ask themselves the most obvious questions about why it might not be the way they think it is.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
So basically you're making up a scenario that you pulled from your arse.
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I think it’s quite a reasonable take. We know they met Tuchel and likely others but kept him. If you’re a manager looking at United, it’s been awful for a long long time, you want to see if ineos know what they’re doing & if you’re ineos you don’t want to spend huge money bringing in a coach you think is a superstar to then have him quit or create bad feeling because of this kind of window. Then in the background if ETH turns it around, ineos look like geniuses anyway.
 
Dissapointing. They haven't exactly set the world alight with any of their other sports projects so I wasn't really expecting a huge summer. To end up with only two relatively untested new faces is however worse than I hoped for. This is not good enough.
Still a bit of time left though.
 
I don’t think some fans understand the sheer stupidity of the last decade plus of decisions… fees, players bought/sold and especially wages given out.

On top of dividends, this has meant massive debt, increasing debt servicing payments, reduction of cash/cash flow and massively impacted on the ability of the new owners (part owners) to make quick/easy changes.

We have to sell to buy or we’ll end up failing spending rules and risk punishment…. BUT we struggle to sell because of the ridiculous wages given out. This is a marathon not a sprint and it’ll take 2-3-4 years to properly unravel and get us back to the position we should be.

Our options are limited;
  • Pay off players to leave - cash out and no fee
  • Keep players - no fee and heavy wages keep impacting
  • Sell players at fees lower than we’d like - some cash in and wage impact reduced
  • Sell players at ‘market’ value - not going to happen as player asks buying clubs for high wages and buying clubs say total deal cost is too much (understandable)
Option 4 isn’t available so we’re stuck with option 3 as the lesser of three unpalatable choices but it’ll take time as we have to hold our nerve and not let clubs take the p!ss.

Ineos aren’t going to make rash gambles, they’re going to improve us step by step and avoid the previous moronic decisions that have been made. I want another defender and 1-2 midfielders but not at the risk of punishments in ‘25, ‘26…

(PS : I’m slightly disappointed at some players who won’t move on. I know they have contracts and fans say it’s not their fault (it’s not) but they’re mature, have had multiple seasons and are never going to be short of cash… but they can still go to a club and get plenty of minutes in the latter years of their careers).

 
Highfather_24 said:
If we dont get any more signings in apart from Amrabat, it WILL be throwing ETH under the bus. I dont mind, since I'm not the biggest Ten Hag fan, but it is what it is. What I'm more pissed about is we are writing away the season too.

Unless ofcourse Ten Hag pulls off a miracle.
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But you do know that PSR is alive and kicking right. Because of years of nonsense spending on players year after year that we need or only came for the $$$, we are in a position where we need to shop more wisely and prob for the next few windows it will be one in one out policy to keep the books balanced.

I really don't buy Ineos throwing ETH under the bus. It's far fetched nonsense. If we get rid mid season, chances are we are going to pay a hefty compensation package which could be used more wisely towards player recruitment . Moreoever, if he does end up going it will be because he didn't deliver on progress as opposed to Ineos 'throwing him under the bus'
 
Godfather said:
Dissapointing. They haven't exactly set the world alight with any of their other sports projects so I wasn't really expecting a huge summer. To end up with only two relatively untested new faces is however worse than I hoped for. This is not good enough.
Still a bit of time left though.
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I suggest you read the post below yours to see why it’s the way it is. So to say disappointing is a little unfair.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
It won't be worse in the PL than the season just gone. As long as most of the squad stays fit and free from injury, the team will do much better in the league.
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I can see it being a very similar season in terms of our performance in the league and the manager being under huge pressure from very early on.

Its just not a quick fix unfortunately, I think there is a genuine desire to gut and rebuild the squad and make big improvements behind the scenes but I suspect how we get there will be quite painful.
 
Highfather_24 said:
I think INEOS are throwing Ten Hag under the bus. This way, they get to make a statement to other clubs that we will not overpay/sell low, and get Ten Hag out and their new man in next summer, and dont have to spend much money this summer. Its a win/win/win for them.
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Not a chance. If they wanted him out, they had the chance to dismiss him.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Absolutely absurd that people seem to be fine with it taking 5 years before we are good again, considering all history tells us competent people should be able to do so in 3 years at a big club (if assuming starting from scratch). Feels like people have been lulled into full on complacency these days
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They're definitely not starting from scratch. That would actually be a better position than what they're starting from.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
They haven't. Go back and listen to Ratcliffe's interviews. Nobody thought we would be fixing our issues in the market in one window. The club have basically fecked themselves with high wages and poorly constructed contracts. Look at Casemiro, the club would love nothing more for him to go this summer and get his wages off the books but there's simply no takers. Saudi was the only option and they've pulled back their spending this summer.

McTominay will be sold if Fulham up their bid by £5M. United want £25M which I would say is a fair asking price. AWB is complicated because of the pay out he's asking for and I also don't think he's very keen on going to West Ham. Laurie Whitwell seemed to hint on the devils podcast that he would like to go to Inter and they could come back in for him.
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I do think they have underestimated just how difficult it would be to move players on, also probably hoped a few wouldn't dig their heels in and stubbornly refuse to leave unless they get payoff. Yes I know this is the fault of the previous clowns running the operations side but doesn't make the situation less frustrating.
 
Sarni said:
It is all about the price. We have had offers for McTominay or Wan Bissaka, a fairly decent ones too, it is just that we want more.
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If they wanted clubs to over pay for our players they probably shouldn't have publicly announced that all of our players are for sale. These two things do not marry up at all.

It has the hallmarks of not having the slightest fecking clue what you are doing and I more amd more suspect that as with Woodward, over time people will realise that this is what is happening
 
noodlehair said:
If they wanted clubs to over pay for our players they probably shouldn't have publicly announced that all of our players are for sale. These two things do not marry up at all.

It has the hallmarks of not having the slightest fecking clue what you are doing and I more amd more suspect that as with Woodward, over time people will realise that this is what is happening
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It is quite funny that they so publicly declared the whole squad was up for sale only to proceed to then fail to actually sell any of said squad.

And by funny I mean soul destroyingly predictable & familiar.
 
I don't think PSR is the issue right now. That can always be dealt with after the fact. The bigger issue is cash flow. We've run up the credit card over the years and now we're broke.
 
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