Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

[Tom Van Persie]

Trust the process. This was never going to be a one window fix. We struggle to sell players because the players we want to shift are on high wages and the market has been kind of slow up to now but we'll see if it starts to heat up in the next few weeks. I said it when they we first hired Ashworth and co, it's going to take us walking away from some deals for clubs to take us serious in negotiations again so I absolutely don't mind us moving on from Ugarte and going for a cheaper player who is identified by the recruitment team. We'll see what happens with de Ligt and Mazraoui.

 

[Matriac]

Just seems exactly the same as every other year to me. We get linked with players then fanny around "negotiating" (not sure if anyone actually thinks we've had negotiators sat around a table with Bayern for 3 months rather than just made a bid and they said "no"). Then end up either not signing them and panic buying someone else, or overpaying for them anyway.

I'm completely lost on why we're trying to sell Bissaka in order to replace him with a worse player who is injured more than him.

At the end of the day the main reason nothing is different is because instead of having some greedy millionaires in charge who don't want to spend any of their own money amd would rather leech money from the club, we have a greedy millionaire in charge who doesn't want to spend any of his own money while other said millionaires still leech money from the club.

Realistically what does anyone expect? We are operating how a mid table club would except with expectations of finishing 1st, and on top of that still have the mess Ed Woodward left with player contracts for a few years yet, which makes selling anyone for a reasonable fee nearly impossible.

He's already invested the maximum he's allowed to impact PSR rules. And we're preventing the Glazers from taking money out directly via dividends.

Do you think that if Ratcliffe put more money in we could turn around and use that on players? No it doesn't work like that. Under the current PSR we can only spend up towards 70% of revenue on player purchases/salaries. Investment doesn't count as revenue. But subscribing to new shares (as Ratcliffe has done) allows for an additional £90m of losses across 3 seasons.

The only way to bring in more revenue to the club (so we can spend more on new players) is either through better sponsor deals (where we already have some of the best deals in ther market (except stadium naming rights)), better tv deals (which is already at the upper level unless there's some euro super league), selling players to both get additional revenue and remove salary pressure towards the 70%, or build a new bigger and better stadium that would bring in more revenue from match days and other activities the rest of the year. Depending on how a new stadium is funded it doesn't need to affect our current spending negatively, in fact it should be mostly offset immediately and then increase our spending ability exponentially every year with inflation and so on.


Owners can't just put their own money into a club to be directly spent on players, as that would be money doping. The way a small club usually gets a meteoric rise is that new owners are able to get them better sponsorship deals than they could get on their own, and it's still considered to be fair market rate (to be accepted under PSR) because the new owners are drawing more attention to the club, which means its more attractive to sponsor it. We are already one of, if not the biggest club(s) in the world, it doesn't get more attractive to sponsor us no matter who owns us. (Maybe with the exception of some super celebrity like Taylor Swift, who could draw masses of new fans to the club who weren't already into football.)

 

[oz insomniac]

The disaster of the Woodward era, we can do things others dream about, has really come to bite us in the proverbial. Players extended beyond their use by date so they can retain balance sheet value was always kicking the can down the road, incompetent but gee the books looked ok for a while.

Who’s going to take on the wages of a lot of our players, that set against their true value has made it an almost impossible task on the first period after the change of staff. That’s the problem and moaning about the lack of action when it’s been a let’s keep the balance sheet better looking and take our dividend actions by their hooray Henry is haunting the club today. Patience is a virtue but there seems to be people in the club who have some idea, let’s give them some time and space to get things done,.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I’m yet to see us even being linked with one.

Berge?

 

[devilish]

We are still relying on ETH on transfers

 

[BluesJr]

We are still relying on ETH on transfers

I think it’s more likely he’s probably vetoing players the recruitment team want.

 

[VP89]

We are still relying on ETH on transfers

I think it’s more likely he’s probably vetoing players the recruitment team want.

I like how we are now making things up based on conspiracy nonsense.

 

[Crimson King]

We are still relying on ETH on transfers

I think it’s more likely he’s probably vetoing players the recruitment team want.

There's no evidence to suggest either of these are true. Unless someone who actually works in that structure comes out and says as much, then we shouldn't make baseless assumptions. I mean who are these imaginary players he's supposedly vetoing? Do you really think he wants Berge over Ugarte?

Also, we've signed two players that supposedly came from the wider recruitment team, and we've bid for Branthwaite and Ugarte. How are they EtH transfers? You don't think he wanted someone like Neves as well? The price stopped them, they weren't vetoed.

You're just letting your frustration, the transfer gossip, and internet trolls get the better of you.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I think it’s more likely he’s probably vetoing players the recruitment team want.

Didnt he surreder his right to Veto when he extended his contract?

 

[BluesJr]

Didnt he surreder his right to Veto when he extended his contract?

Don't think so.

 

[Cassidy]

I think it’s more likely he’s probably vetoing players the recruitment team want.

Yeah right. The recruitment team turned up late we were not prepared for this summer clearly

 

[Guv77]

I like how we are now making things up based on conspiracy nonsense.

Must have read it on X so must be true
people will make anything up if it suits there agenda.

 

[Matriac]

Didnt he surreder his right to Veto when he extended his contract?

We triggered the 1 year extension in his existing contract based on previously agreed terms, because both sides couldn't agree to new terms.

And we did the extension because we had already told the world that we would extend with him, since generally it's not the best thing to leave a manager in a top club on just a years contract, especially if a lot of uncertainty around him.

That said, I personally think the manager should have some form of veto, as there's no point in the club buying a player that the manager doesn't want to play.
But there should be some limitation to it,.and expectation that if a player is vetoed that doesn't necessarily mean they will buy another player instead (maybe keep existing for one more season).

If it happens often that the manager vetoes a player the club wants to buy, that's just a sign that the club should get a different manager instead that want to play the tactics/players the rest of the club wants.

 

[devilish]

I like how we are now making things up based on conspiracy nonsense.

So you think it's mere coincidence that 3 of our targets happen to be players from the eredivisie, 2 of which happen to be his former players?

 

[devilish]

There's no evidence to suggest either of these are true. Unless someone who actually works in that structure comes out and says as much, then we shouldn't make baseless assumptions. I mean who are these imaginary players he's supposedly vetoing? Do you really think he wants Berge over Ugarte?

Also, we've signed two players that supposedly came from the wider recruitment team, and we've bid for Branthwaite and Ugarte. How are they EtH transfers? You don't think he wanted someone like Neves as well? The price stopped them, they weren't vetoed.

You're just letting your frustration, the transfer gossip, and internet trolls get the better of you.

Zirkzee, de ligt and mazraoui are players from the same teams eth had previously worked with, 2 are literally his former players

I understand that the football people joined the club lately but let's not insult people's intelligence here, these are eth signings

 

[VP89]

So you think it's mere coincidence that 3 of our targets happen to be players from the eredivisie, 2 of which happen to be his former players?

I think if you look into the signings themselves, it would be difficult to argue they are solely wanted by ten hag. Especially when Ten Hag said himself De Ligt was offered by Ineos. Zirkzee made his name in Germany and then Italy (another lazy comparison), and you'd probably struggle to think of a better value signing as a RB/LB combo for 15-20m eur than Mazraoui.

 

[devilish]

I think if you look into the signings themselves, it would be difficult to argue they are solely wanted by ten hag. Especially when Ten Hag said himself De Ligt was offered by Ineos. Zirkzee made his name in Germany and then Italy (another lazy comparison), and you'd probably struggle to think of a better value signing as a RB/LB combo for 15-20m eur than Mazraoui.

So you think it's mere coincidence that 3 of the possible 4-5 signings we will make this summer are from the eredivisie and come from clubs ETH had previously worked with? Fair enough

Also note that managers can lie especially to the press

 

[The Cat]

So you think it's mere coincidence that 3 of the possible 4-5 signings we will make this summer are from the eredivisie and come from clubs ETH had previously worked with? Fair enough

Also note that managers can lie especially to the press

I've got no doubt at this stage ETH can request players but the final say on what we will pay isn't under his control as much now. I would expect the manager to always make requests but with increasingly less control going forward.

 

[VP89]

So you think it's mere coincidence that 3 of the possible 4-5 signings we will make this summer are from the eredivisie and come from clubs ETH had previously worked with? Fair enough

Also note that managers can lie especially to the press

I think it's a mere coincidence that de Ligt and Mazraoui are linked yes. De Ligt was reported as an INEOS target by athletic and it was confirmed by ten hag. Mazraoui represents good value as a standalone target. Zirkzee made his name in Germany and Italy, and your lazily assuming he's a ten hag target because of his nationality. And yorro, Ugarte/ Berge /zubamendi etc have nothing to do with Ten Hag.

 

[devilish]

I think it's a mere coincidence that de Ligt and Mazraoui are linked yes. De Ligt was reported as an INEOS target by athletic and it was confirmed by ten hag. Mazraoui represents good value as a standalone target. Zirkzee made his name in Germany and Italy, and your lazily assuming he's a ten hag target because of his nationality. And yorro, Ugarte/ Berge /zubammendi etc have nothing to do with Ten Hag.

Zirkzee is dutch and he went at a young age at a club ETH worked in. De ligt and mazraoui had their best games under ETH. Both went to Bayern is a club ETH had once worked for as well. That does seem to follow the same trajectory of eth previous signing (Martinez, malacia, onana and Antony) who came from the eredivisie, 3 of which from ajax. But ok

If you ask me our football people started working for us late hence we had to rely on the previous strategy. That is backed by the fact that most have already agreed personal terms with us and are determined not to talk to anyone else. That suggest a huge level of trust between the two parties. Who could they possibly trust so much? Surely Fletcher? Or could it be Blanc? The Kit man maybe?

 

[VP89]

Zirkzee is dutch and he went at a young age at a club ETH worked in. De ligt and mazraoui had their best games under ETH. Both went to Bayern is a club ETH had once worked for as well. That does seem to follow the same trajectory of eth previous signing (Martinez, malacia, onana and Antony) who came from the eredivisie, 3 of which from ajax. But ok

If you ask me our football people started working for us late hence we had to rely on the previous strategy. That is backed by the fact that most have already agreed personal terms with us and are determined not to talk to anyone else. That suggest a huge level of trust between the two parties. Who could they possibly trust so much? Surely Fletcher? Or could it be Blanc? The Kit man maybe?

You're turning into a conspiracy theorist. There's no inner working knowledge of Ten Hag and Zirkzee because ten hag moved on long after zirkzee came onto the scene.

De Ligt has been reported and confirmed subsequently by the coach himself to be an INEOS signing. Mazraoui has worked with ten hag but represents good value at his fee.

The others have even less to do with ten hag. So this idea that Ten hag is leading a summer transfer window with his own targets comes across very half baked and frankly made up from lazy narratives hungover from last season.

 

[Crimson King]

Zirkzee, de ligt and mazraoui are players from the same teams eth had previously worked with, 2 are literally his former players

I understand that the football people joined the club lately but let's not insult people's intelligence here, these are eth signings

You see this is why I can't take these posts seriously. Zirkzee and EtH have never worked with each other before, but because they're both connected to Bayern in some way and/or Dutch you lump them in with Mazraoui. I mean, how many degrees of separation do you need before you'll be satisfied with a transfer?

The boardroom guys did arrive late, so that aspect might but be completely up and running yet, sure. However, by all accounts it looks like we're not going through with De Ligt because of the price, so the idea that EtH is completely running the show is absurd, and quite frankly you're just insulting your own intelligence if you really think that.

 

[wolvored]

I can see what Ineos are trying to do but it’s going to be a while to actually work well. When you got players like Casemiro Rashford all the way down to AWB who are grossly overpaid, then you are up against it. For AWB to demand a few million to supplement his wages if he goes to West Ham proves this. We need to sell to buy and that’s why we’re now fecked. Sancho Ugarte swap may be on, but once again Sanchos obscene wages might feck us up, unless PSG are matching it.

 

[Marcelinho87]

The impatience here is staggering absolute staggering.

 

[devilish]

You're turning into a conspiracy theorist. There's no inner working knowledge of Ten Hag and Zirkzee because ten hag moved on long after zirkzee came onto the scene.

De Ligt has been reported and confirmed subsequently by the coach himself to be an INEOS signing. Mazraoui has worked with ten hag but represents good value at his fee.

The others have even less to do with ten hag. So this idea that Ten hag is leading a summer transfer window with his own targets comes across very half baked and frankly made up from lazy narratives hungover from last season.

You really believe that a youth coach wouldn't know and he wouldn't keep tabs on a great young local talent coming through the ranks? I assure that its not the case. United knew of a certain Steve Gerrard coming through the Liverpool's ranks. We were an inch away from signing a young Michael Owen (13 yrs old) and we just signed one of arsenal finest hot prospects .

And again if you believe that de ligt and mazraoui are pure ineos signings and with no push from the person who seem dead cert of making us Ajax 2.0/eredivisie (onana, mazraoui, de ligt, timber, martinez de jong and Antony) whatsoever then what can I say? Let's agree to disagree

 

[VP89]

You really believe that a youth coach wouldn't know and he wouldn't keep tabs on a great young local talent coming through the ranks? I assure that its not the case. United knew of a certain Steve Gerrard coming through the Liverpool's ranks. We were an inch away from signing a young Michael Owen (13 yrs old) and we just signed one of arsenal finest hot prospects .

And again if you believe that de ligt and mazraoui are pure ineos signings and with no push from the person who seem dead cert of making us Ajax 2.0 (onana, mazraoui, de ligt, timber, martinez de jong and Antony) then what can I say? Let's agree to disagree

I choose to believe what is reported by tier one journalists and from the manager himself over conspiracy theorists yes. So I would disagree that De Ligt is a Ten Hag suggestion.

Finally, Zirkzee joined Bayern 2 years after Ten Hag left.

It doesn't sound like you've researched your points very well..

 

[devilish]

You see this is why I can't take these posts seriously. Zirkzee and EtH have never worked with each other before, but because they're both connected to Bayern in some way and/or Dutch you lump them in with Mazraoui. I mean, how many degrees of separation do you need before you'll be satisfied with a transfer?

The boardroom guys did arrive late, so that aspect might but be completely up and running yet, sure. However, by all accounts it looks like we're not going through with De Ligt because of the price, so the idea that EtH is completely running the show is absurd, and quite frankly you're just insulting your own intelligence if you really think that.

If you think

A-that a youth coach like ETH was wouldn't know of a big young talent coming through from his own country then think again.

- he wouldn't retain some sort of close relationship at his former club.

Then think again. Football is a niche Industry were people usually know one another and they keep close tabs with one another

Regarding the rest, it's very difficult to arrange deals with players to such an extent that they wouldn't listen to alternative offers. We did that with at least 4 while also sabotaging the yoro + zirkzee deal. Such talent weren't identified, courted and done by ashworth, berrada and co. The timing is simply too short

 

[devilish]

I choose to believe what is reported by tier one journalists and from the manager himself over conspiracy theorists yes. So I would disagree that De Ligt is a Ten Hag suggestion.

Finally, Zirkzee joined Bayern 2 years after Ten Hag left.

It doesn't sound like you've researched your points very well..

Who do you think feed tier one journalists with info? Do you think anyone of them will be fed with more info if they make ineos and eth look bad?

 

[VP89]

Who do you think feed tier one journalists with info?

It's a combination of sources close to INEOS, agents, players and managers. They are tier one because they do a good job of corroborating their sources.

 

[Red in STL]

I choose to believe what is reported by tier one journalists and from the manager himself over conspiracy theorists yes. So I would disagree that De Ligt is a Ten Hag suggestion.

Finally, Zirkzee joined Bayern 2 years after Ten Hag left.

It doesn't sound like you've researched your points very well..

Why does it matter if ETH did suggest him, the INEOS team obviously agree that De Light would be a good player to buy, the implication that ETH (or any other manager) can't suggest players to aquire is ludicrous IMO

 

[VP89]

Why does it matter if ETH did suggest him, the INEOS team obviously agree that De Light would be a good player to buy, the implication that ETH (or any other manager) can't suggest players to aquire is ludicrous IMO

Because it appears some people want to pretend that Ten hag is driving the transfer recruitment on his own

 

[Sarni]

ETH will obviously have played a significant part in both de Ligt and Mazraoui acquisitions. I called de Ligt transfer months ago because it was so incredibly obvious that we'd go for him, just as it's obvious we will go for Edson Alvarez for a DM position if we can't get Ugarte.

Not sure about Zirkzee, he doesn't have much association with him, and he's definitely played no part in Yoro transfer which is more of a club signing.

If you have a manager who has a very strong preference for players he's worked before/is familiar with, it makes sense to try and acquire them. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Blood Mage]

Just seems exactly the same as every other year to me. We get linked with players then fanny around "negotiating" (not sure if anyone actually thinks we've had negotiators sat around a table with Bayern for 3 months rather than just made a bid and they said "no"). Then end up either not signing them and panic buying someone else, or overpaying for them anyway.

I'm completely lost on why we're trying to sell Bissaka in order to replace him with a worse player who is injured more than him.

At the end of the day the main reason nothing is different is because instead of having some greedy millionaires in charge who don't want to spend any of their own money amd would rather leech money from the club, we have a greedy millionaire in charge who doesn't want to spend any of his own money while other said millionaires still leech money from the club.

Realistically what does anyone expect? We are operating how a mid table club would except with expectations of finishing 1st, and on top of that still have the mess Ed Woodward left with player contracts for a few years yet, which makes selling anyone for a reasonable fee nearly impossible.

Completely agree. Hopefully it's just growing pains but this has been a Glazer summer. We overpaid for Zirkzee and Yoro also.

 

[Crimson King]

ETH will obviously have played a significant part in both de Ligt and Mazraoui acquisitions. I called de Ligt transfer months ago because it was so incredibly obvious that we'd go for him, just as it's obvious we will go for Edson Alvarez for a DM position if we can't get Ugarte.

Not sure about Zirkzee, he doesn't have much association with him, and he's definitely played no part in Yoro transfer which is more of a club signing.

If you have a manager who has a very strong preference for players he's worked before/is familiar with, it makes sense to try and acquire them. Nothing wrong with it.

We're not going for Alverez. West Ham will want similar to what PSG are asking for Ugarte.

If you just follow the lazy trail of thought that tabloid journos use then you'll be right a few times.

 

[Crimson King]

Completely agree. Hopefully it's just growing pains but this has been a Glazer summer. We overpaid for Zirkzee and Yoro also.

How did we overpay for Zirkzee?!

 

[Sarni]

We're not going for Alverez. West Ham will want similar to what PSG are asking for Ugarte.

If you just follow the lazy trail of thought that tabloid journos use then you'll be right a few times.

De Ligt is the only player I've actually mentioned, because it was clear that we would need a defender and he was the most obvious target ever.

Alvarez is of the same kind. We might be outpriced but we will certainly go for him. We'd probably be more receptive to spending 50m on him than Ugarte.

 

[Blood Mage]

How did we overpay for Zirkzee?!

Because he's a 35m player at best? I know he had a release clause but there was reason hardly anyone was in for him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

How did we overpay for Zirkzee?!

Wasn't he Serie A Young Player of the Year. I would say we overpaid for Hojlund.

 

[Sarni]

Because he's a 35m player at best? I know he had a release clause but there was reason hardly anyone was in for him.

That's what he cost. Milan wanted him as well.

 

[Crimson King]

Because he's a 35m player at best? I know he had a release clause but there was reason hardly anyone was in for him.

He would have cost more than that without the release clause.

Milan came really close to signing him, there were links in Italy to Juventus. Arsenal were also linked to him, but probably felt he was too similar to just playing Havertz up front.

But hey, you believe what you want to believe.