Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

[Amar__]

I would refrain from accusing other people of being ignorant if you're going to fall back on such 'tier 1' sources like transfermkt to try and make your point. I'm assuming that still is from a tweet, so they've framed it in a way to gain traction and rile up the idiots online. I have to commend them for doing such a good job at it.

Let's take a look at it for just a second. Can you name those 7 players? Is that just at United or when he managed other clubs? Because I tried to figure it out, and I could only make 6, and that's if I included Wout, Amrabat and Eriksen... You know, the two players we had on loan because the club had financially fecked itself, and that guy we signed on a free and who never actually played for EtH before, just trained with him at Ajax for a few months after Inter released him.

That means that a majority, if not all of that money the graphic says, went on Antony, Martinez and Onana. Again, the only one I think is a massive waste of money is Antony, but we all know the story behind that deal and how incompetent the club looks because of it.

Other than Antony, our 3 most expensive players have been Casemiro, Højlund and Yoro. None of which had anything to do with EtH before he came here.

This includes his entire managerial career, not just Manchester United. Also, again you are ignoring my initial point that is United board and not Ten Hag so that is me done arguing with you since you are here only to defend Ten Hag, and I don't even want to continue that discussion.

 

[Crimson King]

This includes his entire managerial career, not just Manchester United. Also, again you are ignoring my initial point that is United board and not Ten Hag so that is me done arguing with you since you are here only to defend Ten Hag, and I don't even want to continue that discussion.

I'll defend him against shit-stirring, sure.

 

[Insanity]

The links to de Ligt & Mazraoui are jarring. An almost 25 year old journeyman & a permacrock.

Either these links to make AWB, Maguire & Lindelof more palatable for another sesson just like the Southgate links made ETH more palatable or nothing has changed if we end up with either Dutch or ex-Ajax players as three of our four signings.

 

[AneRu]

The links to de Ligt & Mazraoui are jarring. An almost 25 year old journeyman & a permacrock.

Either these links to make AWB, Maguire & Lindelof more palatable for another sesson just like the Southgate links made ETH more palatable or nothing has changed if we end up with either Dutch or ex-Ajax players as three of our four signings.

Yeah, the scouting has been disappointing but I'd like to think it's mostly to do with the fact that the Leadership of our football side has taken too long to assemble. Still De Ligt, Yoro, Mazraoui and Zirkee should plug the holes and hopefully next summer we don't need as many players and can focus on quality starters in a few select positions and a few more well scouted punts.

I think having if we come out of this window having a younger more technical squad we would have done well. The majority of the squad that finished 3rd two seasons ago is still there, it's matter of getting them fit (Shaw, Martinez), back in form (Rashford, Casemiro), more depth in some roles (Casemiro, Hoijlund) and seeing how others grow organically. For example one of Garnacho/Amad could have a break out season and become a really dominant player for us.

Where I worry most is the CDM, we are putting too much in the Casemiro basket despite him letting us down last season and last season we had an alternative to him. Depends on how ready Ten Hag thinks Collyer is but that's a real weakness for us and going into the season with it unaddressed will be negligence of the highest order.

 

[Garethw]

Looks like a repeat of many previous summers to me. The squad needs major work with ins and outs.

 

[croadyman]

Looks like a repeat of many previous summers to me. The squad needs major work with ins and outs.

Like I have said on a Utd WhatsApp group you can't undo 11 years of damage in one summer

 

[red_de_pologne]

we're only selling players who are on normal wages, we can't sell people with stupid contracts no matter who is in charge

 

[M Bison]

Like I have said on a Utd WhatsApp group you can't undo 11 years of damage in one summer

You absolutely can’t I agree, but we could have done a lot more than we have up to now.

With the 2 early signings and in particular Yoro it was shaping up to be a great summer, but it’s feeling very underwhelming now. We’re set to start the season with a worse squad than we finished last now both Yoro and Rasmus injured.

 

[croadyman]

You absolutely can’t I agree, but we could have done a lot more than we have up to now.

With the 2 early signings and in particular Yoro it was shaping up to be a great summer, but it’s feeling very underwhelming now. We’re set to start the season with a worse squad than we finished last now both Yoro and Rasmus injured.

I think we are trying to negotiate the absolute best prices for De Ligt and Mazraoui but agree it's hard to stay patient. Like I have said before Saudis not coming for Casemiro and Sancho burying hatchet with Erik for now has hindered our transfer plans.

 

[roseguy64]

You absolutely can’t I agree, but we could have done a lot more than we have up to now.

With the 2 early signings and in particular Yoro it was shaping up to be a great summer, but it’s feeling very underwhelming now. We’re set to start the season with a worse squad than we finished last now both Yoro and Rasmus injured.

It's not disastrous as you're painting but it's not as rosy as people were saying earlier this summer after we made signings.

People just love going to extremes on here and end up disappointing themselves for no reason. The last regime had trouble and this one will too. That's how it is. Just that this time we'll likely have less issues with new ownership in charge of the operations.

 

[Red in STL]

It's not disastrous as you're painting but it's not as rosy as people were saying earlier this summer after we made signings.

People just love going to extremes on here and end up disappointing themselves for no reason. The last regime had trouble and this one will too. That's how it is. Just that this time we'll likely have less issues with new ownership in charge of the operations.

CAF mentality, bemoan the fact they we overpay and then whinge because we attempt not to

 

[Mr Anderson]

I had high optimism when they came in. But let’s face it, we’ve known for a long time what we needed in - season only 10 days away and we are still miles away depth wise.

They need to pull the finger out and get bodies in - this isn’t “worldie” signings, but some astute better base squad players to at least make us not concede 20 chances a game.

It just feels another wasted window so far, unless we magically get 4 players in this 10 days, but even then it’s still time to integrate and get into training etc.

Instead of getting it done, it’s all too cautious. We know from the financial statement of accounts we have wiggle room to spend, so this 1 in when 1 out happens is not to be an excuse.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I had high optimism when they came in. But let’s face it, we’ve known for a long time what we needed in - season only 10 days away and we are still miles away depth wise.

They need to pull the finger out and get bodies in - this isn’t “worldie” signings, but some astute better base squad players to at least make us not concede 20 chances a game.

It just feels another wasted window so far, unless we magically get 4 players in this 10 days, but even then it’s still time to integrate and get into training etc.

Instead of getting it done, it’s all too cautious. We know from the financial statement of accounts we have wiggle room to spend, so this 1 in when 1 out happens is not to be an excuse.

This is what hasn’t worked for the last decade plus. What they’re doing is the inevitable proving of the point that United don’t just pay silly money anymore. It will take time to fix. Likely multiple years and probably multiple managers. But you can’t just forget the mismanagement of Woodward/Arnold, their legacy is still felt in fat contracts and our reputation as cash happy fools.

I do like who we’ve brought in I will say so far. I’d like De Light though not as hot on Mazraoui although if you essentially told me we’d swap AWB for Mazraoui re fee I’d have taken it.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

I like this approach, even if it costs us short-term. Going after young players, good but "unwanted" players and walking away when meeting unrealistic demands. Would have liked Ugarte, Doué, Branthwaite etc, but demands were too high for us. Would like them to come up with a few more deals that looks well-executed, just don't panic sign players when the inevitable poor start hits us.

 

[Roboc7]

It was always going to be a painful first year or two, they are obviously trying to change the narrative around the silly transfer fees and wages we pay whilst also trying to sell players for bigger fees. It’s fine line between playing hardball and shooting your self in the foot though so hopefully they get balance right before end of the window.

Reality is teams know we are desperate, our squad of nowhere near good enough, we want to gut it and sign lots of new players. Arsenal can demand more for ESR because they are in a position of strength but Galatasaray we prepared to pay more for a player from Norwich than they were for Mctominay.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Season is about to start, losing confidence of moving players on now. Ineos had no issues, cutting staff of 250 but can't get these players removed. Players who comfortably collect huge wages, sitting on the bench not arsed if they start, no ambition. For all the talk, it's not been delivered. Still time but doubt it's going to happen now.

I don't see how general staff were given the boot but some of these players, allowed to just carry on. Some should have been told, you aren't in our plans. Find a new club or you will not be going on tour, should be frozen out. Not ruthless enough, it's not fair to blame Ineos for the absurd wages of the glazer regime. This could take years to fix. They can be blamed about leaking that it was a fire sale of players, back at the end March. Listen to offers for everyone, except a few younger players like Mainoo, Garnacho and Rasmus. The stench of desperation hasn't left us. Everton should have been told to feck off straight away, regarding Branthwaite. Fulham should be told where to go with there offer with Scott. If you are going to play poker with Bayern and PSG about the price, you better be sure you can pull it off. Otherwise it will harm future negotiations. Deals don't always come off but issue if you are agreeing personal terms, then can't get it over the line. Looks like it will take years for players to run contracts down, to we get the majority removed.

 

[Plant0x84]

Season is about to start, losing confidence of moving players on now.

Window is still open until the end of the month. There is still time!

 

[Morpheus 7]

Window is still open until the end of the month. There is still time!

Are you confident we can remove players, honestly at this latter stage?

 

[roseguy64]

Are you confident we can remove players, honestly at this latter stage?

Plenty of clubs do lots of business late. Pay attention to the window.

 

[Escobar]

I think we are trying to negotiate the absolute best prices for De Ligt and Mazraoui but agree it's hard to stay patient. Like I have said before Saudis not coming for Casemiro and Sancho burying hatchet with Erik for now has hindered our transfer plans.

Fair enough and good we finally pay the right prices. But I hope we would still move faster and get more players in. We have hardly improved our team and the season starts in less than 2 weeks. Especially our midfield is still absolute garbage

 

[noodlehair]

Just seems exactly the same as every other year to me. We get linked with players then fanny around "negotiating" (not sure if anyone actually thinks we've had negotiators sat around a table with Bayern for 3 months rather than just made a bid and they said "no"). Then end up either not signing them and panic buying someone else, or overpaying for them anyway.

I'm completely lost on why we're trying to sell Bissaka in order to replace him with a worse player who is injured more than him.

At the end of the day the main reason nothing is different is because instead of having some greedy millionaires in charge who don't want to spend any of their own money amd would rather leech money from the club, we have a greedy millionaire in charge who doesn't want to spend any of his own money while other said millionaires still leech money from the club.

Realistically what does anyone expect? We are operating how a mid table club would except with expectations of finishing 1st, and on top of that still have the mess Ed Woodward left with player contracts for a few years yet, which makes selling anyone for a reasonable fee nearly impossible.

 

[pocco]

This summer was always going to be tough after the over indulgence of Ten Hag in the last 2 window. It seems we're geniuenly up against it in terms of FFP or whatever. Ineos can't make people pay what we want for players, it was always naive of people to expect otherwise.

 

[Dance If You Wanna Dance]

This summer was always going to be tough after the over indulgence of Ten Hag in the last 2 window. It seems we're geniuenly up against it in terms of FFP or whatever. Ineos can't make people pay what we want for players, it was always naive of people to expect otherwise.

Nah, it’s not re an over indulgence of Ten Hag, it’s been tough because of years of mismanagement under Woodward.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm fine walking away from deals that are unrealistic. About time we try and correct the narrative about paying over the odds and giving in to just paying what other clubs want.

 

[pocco]

Nah, it’s not re an over indulgence of Ten Hag, it’s been tough because of years of mismanagement under Woodward.

We've spent a lot in the last 2 summer windows. When we signed Antony, everybody was getting all giddy and didn't take much notice of the reports about us overstretching to pay for him and how it was allocated from the following years budget, basically being covered by an additional credit facility too. I think that was the summer where we screwed ourselves over a bit.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

We've spent a lot in the last 2 summer windows. When we signed Antony, everybody was getting all giddy and didn't take much notice of the reports about us overstretching to pay for him and how it was allocated from the following years budget, basically being covered by an additional credit facility too. I think that was the summer where we screwed ourselves over a bit.

This idea that signing Anthony was the turning point in our financial issues is misguided.Every club, even the best ones, make bad and expensive signings that don’t work out.

11 years of financial mismanagement and stupid contracts is the problem. We can’t offload unwanted players because Woodward gave out Stupid contracts and extensions.

Sancho wasn’t cheap and he’s not offered United much more then Anthony.

According to transfermarket, with United:

Sancho
Transfer : €85mil
Wages : 250k
Minutes played: 3670
Goals per minute EPL: 9 goals - 1 every 407 mins
Assists per minute EPL: 6 assists - 1 every 611 mins
Goal/assist: 1 every 244 mins

Anthony
Transfer : 95 mil
Wages : 200k
Minutes played: 3141
Goals per minute EPL: 5 goals - 1 every 628 mins
Assists per minute EPL: 3 assists - 1 every 1041 mins
Goal/assist: 1 every 392 mins

Couple of things:

- Sancho costs 50k per week (2.6mil) more per year so total cost will end up same
- Anthony offers far more defensively, if Sancho isn’t assisting/scoring he offers nothing

Maybe if we hadn’t signed Sancho , the Anthony one wouldn’t be the supposed disaster some are making out. There’s plenty of bad signings United have made over the years that have cost us and contributed to where we are, I’m specifically referring to your comments that appear to imply that the Anthony signing is integral to our current financial FFP concerns. It’s a tiny part of that problem.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I'm fine walking away from deals that are unrealistic. About time we try and correct the narrative about paying over the odds and giving in to just paying what other clubs want.

Same. It’s for the better long term. We’ve been pushed around too many times.

The project will take many years and patience is needed no matter how you look at it. Rome wasn’t build in a day.

 

[Castia]

Walking away is fine but if your backup option is about 10 levels below your main target then it’s a nonsense.


Hardly a good summer this in all honesty

 

[Vault Dweller]

Same. It’s for the better long term. We’ve been pushed around too many times.

The project will take many years and patience is needed no matter how you look at it. Rome wasn’t build in a day.

Indeed. Sure there will be much frustration but years of ineptitude and terrible deals have done this. Will take a while to rectify. Let's see if we shift McT, AWB and Sancho on (there is at least chat around them moving) and see what happens with incomings. Seeing the Berge link, I actually don't mind that at all, look at the business Liverpool have done and he would be solid for the squad I think.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Are you confident we can remove players, honestly at this latter stage?

All clubs have been away on their pre season tour, now that clubs are back, we will start to see more players moving clubs. Not much business gets done while pre season tours are underway.

There is still 26 days left of the transfer window, that is plenty of time.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Indeed. Sure there will be much frustration but years of ineptitude and terrible deals have done this. Will take a while to rectify. Let's see if we shift McT, AWB and Sancho on (there is at least chat around them moving) and see what happens with incomings. Seeing the Berge link, I actually don't mind that at all, look at the business Liverpool have done and he would be solid for the squad I think.

Exactly. Now that we got a capable head of the footballrecruitment side in Ashton and a capable negotiator in Berrada, let’s trust them and trust the proces.

It’d be different if we didnt have the right ingredients from the start and a guy like Woodward at the wheel, but we have some of the best heads at the club now.

 

[Vidooq]

Walking away is fine but if your backup option is about 10 levels below your main target then it’s a nonsense.

Hardly a good summer this in all honesty

We absolutely need a proper DM. I see a lot of posters saying that it's the right thing to walk away from the Ugarte deal, however, most of them are gonna get grey hair by November if Casemiro is our starting DM. I understand the walking away from the Braintwaite deal, we can cover ourselves with some of the backups in those positions, but DM, we are desperate for quality, and I don't think that walking away from Ugarte is where we should draw the line if the club has deemed him as the person that will incrementally improve us.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

After a bright start things are looking eerily similar to how they used to be. All the duds are being given another shot and the midfield is a broken. Hope we can get some good business done over the next 3 weeks but the targets being discussed don't speak of any great vision or ambition. I suppose we need to give the new people multiple windows.

 

[BluesJr]

After a bright start things are looking eerily similar to how they used to be. All the duds are being given another shot and the midfield is a broken. Hope we can get some good business done over the next 3 weeks but the targets being discussed don't speak of any great vision or ambition. I suppose we need to give the new people multiple windows.

We do but at the same time they’ll have known how unacceptable the club has been run and of course they can’t fix everything in one go, but the football people who have come in should recognise that midfield is the priority and why we’ve spent money on a forward who won’t even play if everyone was fit and an 18 year old CB first is just weird to me. 3 CM’s should have been signed by now.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We do but at the same time they’ll have known how unacceptable the club has been run and of course they can’t fix everything in one go, but the football people who have come in should recognise that midfield is the priority and why we’ve spent money on a forward who won’t even play if everyone was fit and an 18 year old CB first is just weird to me. 3 CM’s should have been signed by now.

I'm surprised they didn't identify playmaker/ passing CMs as a big requirement. It's the one area where it felt like a complete overvalued was needed.

 

[Kaos]

Yeah does feel like the honeymoon period has started to wane.

Granted it's not their fault that clubs arent rushing to buy our castoffs or still trying to fleece us for our transfer targets, but we have the previous regime to thank for that, and I suspect it'll be a few transfer windows before we start to look like shrewd operators with transfers.

For the time being the least I'd expect is for them not to repeat the mistakes of the past and desperately start overpaying for players in the 11th hour and offering them ludicrous contracts. Then we'll be indefinitely stuck with our ways.

 

[dubplate warrior]

After a bright start things are looking eerily similar to how they used to be. All the duds are being given another shot and the midfield is a broken. Hope we can get some good business done over the next 3 weeks but the targets being discussed don't speak of any great vision or ambition. I suppose we need to give the new people multiple windows.

We need to sell to buy. This was never going to be a one window job.

We're paying for the mistakes from years of mismanagement. Sancho and Casemiro or crazy wages, AWB demanding a pay off to leave. It's holding our window up, however sometimes you have to play the waiting game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Exactly. Now that we got a capable head of the footballrecruitment side in Ashton and a capable negotiator in Berrada, let’s trust them and trust the proces.

It’d be different if we didnt have the right ingredients from the start and a guy like Woodward at the wheel, but we have some of the best heads at the club now.

Yeah I feel like that. We have this whole new operation side and if they identifying targets like him for under the radar signings I'm all for it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We need to sell to buy. This was never going to be a one window job.

Obviously. It's probably a 4-8 window job if we do a good job. I can just never understand how the club that has struggled to control games for a decade continues to neglect this aspect. Possession averse club will continue to fail to control games and it won't be a shock.

 

[El Presidente]

Yeah I feel like that. We have this whole new operation side and if they identifying targets like him for under the radar signings I'm all for it.

I’m yet to see us even being linked with one.