City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

duffer said:
Depends on how many points are deducted. Make it 70 and it becomes very interesting.
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Deduct them enough so that they'll 100% get relegated

But even that feels like a slap in the wrist considering the scale of cheating. Theyed bounce straight back up and be challenging for the title again almost immediately
 
Thunderhead said:
you have proof this won't be time barred, as Premier League Rules are, in fact, expressly stated to be construed in accordance with English law which, with the usual nuance of statute of limitations debates, will impute a six-year time bar.
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But the usual limitation defence does NOT apply in the case of the premier league bringing the 115 charges against city or against any other club. This has long been understood. The 6 year limitation period is relevant to whether the other premier league clubs would want to commence their own actions against city for lost revenue from losing out on European places to city. Of course that is dependent on the independent commission’s findings, but given its 6 years the other clubs will have plenty of time.
 
News on Twitter that’s they’ve secured some big victory over the premier league. Can someone who knows more about this (that’s all of you) explain what this means and what it means for the 115 charges?
 
99% of the people are getting mad about this but they don't even know what this means :lol::rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with the 115 charges.

It was already reported a few weeks ago that Man City will win this court battle against the Premier League.
 
Keegan in the DM

Manchester City appear to have scored a victory in their legal battle against the Premier League over Associated Party Transaction Rules (APT) - after a vote on an amendment to the system was dropped from this morning’s top-flight meeting.

City declined to comment. However, Mail Sport understands clubs were due to discuss changes to the rules, which City claimed were unlawful, at the summit in London.

Sources have disclosed that the vote was removed at the ‘last minute’, in what may be interpreted as a heavy indication that City have been successful in their legal challenge - given there would be little point in voting on amendments to rules that may soon be subject to change themselves, or even become inactive.

The potentially significant development comes with the Premier League’s case against City for 115 alleged breaches of financial rules ongoing.

In June, it emerged that City had taken the unprecedented of suing the competition in a move that sparked civil war in the top flight.
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Potentially good news for City but too soon to tell.
The planned rule changes could just be temporarily dropped, the twitter articles are unclear but they all say “ could be an indication of” ( or words along those lines)

If it transpires this is indeed a win for City then this must improve their position in the 115 case being that some of the charges relate to sponsorship deals being fair value etc.
So, if there’s substance that PL rules at the time were deemed unlawful maybe that COULD be a defence for not abiding by them?

Same with the failing to comply charges, if PL were asking for documents/accounts they have no legal right to ask for, or entitled to, how can City be guilty of not providing them?

Granted, this is all ifs and buts, and an element of clutching at straws on my part, but it will certainly be interesting to find out the true, full outcome of this APT case and what ramifications it will have for both sides.
 
nmm85 said:
I went on holiday to Mallorca last month and was shocked how many kids where wearing City kits and how little United ones I saw. Although probably all fake ones!
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I've been in North Africa a bit recently, i noticed how the sports shops and markets didn't have our kits in them anymore. Plenty of City, Juventus, Barcelona etc and even Inter fecking Miami. No Manchester United anywhere.
 
11101 said:
I've been in North Africa a bit recently, i noticed how the sports shops and markets didn't have our kits in them anymore. Plenty of City, Juventus, Barcelona etc and even Inter fecking Miami. No Manchester United anywhere.
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I can’t imagine this has any impact on the official figures though!
 
11101 said:
I've been in North Africa a bit recently, i noticed how the sports shops and markets didn't have our kits in them anymore. Plenty of City, Juventus, Barcelona etc and even Inter fecking Miami. No Manchester United anywhere.
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When I was in Egypt I saw plenty of Messi, C.Ronaldo and City, a smattering of Real, Barca and Bayern and barely anything else. No adults wearing the first set.
 
BabySinclair said:
99% of the people are getting mad about this but they don't even know what this means :lol::rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with the 115 charges.

It was already reported a few weeks ago that Man City will win this court battle against the Premier League.
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Yeah the outcome of the APT case should have no effect whatsoever on the 130 charges they are currently facing
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Yeah the outcome of the APT case should have no effect whatsoever on the 130 charges they are currently facing
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Just means going forward them/Newcastle etc will be able to massively inflate their APTs. All of their charges relate to providing inaccurate figures regarding sponsorships, payments to players, breaches of financial regs and unwillingness to cooperate.

They will probably say that any charges relating to APTs in the past are now deemed to be void, but they still declared the funds came from somewhere they didn't so you'd hope this doesn't change anything but like I said, gives the State clubs easier methods to pump money in.
 
BabySinclair said:
99% of the people are getting mad about this but they don't even know what this means :lol::rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with the 115 charges.

It was already reported a few weeks ago that Man City will win this court battle against the Premier League.
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I can't see any way that City win this, Saracens tried and failed a couple of years back on something similar (salary cap I think) and the head KC hearing this was also the head KC on that too, think they ruled that sporting leagues can implement rules that go against normal business rules or something like that
 
It's sad that all we can hope as united fans is for this to stick, after years of being terrible on the pitch.
 
Iffin said:
Potentially good news for City but too soon to tell.
The planned rule changes could just be temporarily dropped, the twitter articles are unclear but they all say “ could be an indication of” ( or words along those lines)

If it transpires this is indeed a win for City then this must improve their position in the 115 case being that some of the charges relate to sponsorship deals being fair value etc.
So, if there’s substance that PL rules at the time were deemed unlawful maybe that COULD be a defence for not abiding by them?

Same with the failing to comply charges, if PL were asking for documents/accounts they have no legal right to ask for, or entitled to, how can City be guilty of not providing them?

Granted, this is all ifs and buts, and an element of clutching at straws on my part, but it will certainly be interesting to find out the true, full outcome of this APT case and what ramifications it will have for both sides.
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City are up on charges for breaking the rules that were in existence when they actually broke them. It doesn't matter at all whether those rules are changed in the future.
 
padr81 said:
Didn't see the last bit but its cool. The cheating thing doesn't matter for shirt sales. I've posted my opinion on the charges at least 600 times in this thread, so posts like "All by cheating" are about as much a gotcha as calling me a wanker.
But regardless of how it was achieved you guys fail to see what right in front of your faces. Its not 2014 anymore, multiple people in this thread have stated when they're honest seeing a big increase in City shirts.

But to explain why its very possible:
1 - Arsenal have been in the wilderness for a few years while City have been hoovering up trophies and signed some superstars
2 - City have one of the biggest names in football and kids these days and social media clowns like Speed follow players not clubs, horrible trend but it is what it is. Person doesn't have to be a City fan to buy a Haaland shirt.
3 - I said the figures posted were debatable and its quite possible Arsenal sell more given that there are various sources with various numbers multiple times in this thread with City coming anywhere from 4th to 6th.

PSG also sell more shirts than Arsenal to for what its worth. Now Arsenal are back to the top, I'd fully expect them to outsell City. Look at Liverpools trajectory since they bounced back.

Curious though how did Chelsea become a bigger shirt seller than Arsenal? I'd like you opinion on how that came to be, cause I have a feeling it was signing bigger players and winning more trophies over a period of a decade.
There are lots of kids and teens now who have grown up in an era of absolute City dominance (oblivious or not caring how it was achieved) not seen since United golden era.

edit: Apologies to anyone else whose post I missed I woke up to a lot of notifications this morning.
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Fair enough, you may be right.
Having thought about it Arsenal really don't deserve to be at the top anyway.

I had to reel myself back a bit as i am from Manchester and i know a fair few city fans and most of them have been good lads.
I understand that the new generation of glory supporters are yours and there's a part of me that hopes that we don't gain them back when we get back to the top(crosses fingers). I know we will though.

I find the whole supporting players thing to be a cop out by the youth. It stinks of cowardice by avoiding the humiliation that comes from your team losing and getting stick for it.
As United fans, we've had a good dose of that these last ten years and maybe it has helped humble many of us.

My problem is always going to come with the cheating.
I get that you're dealing with a lot of anger in here, which is also in part to United's incompetence during the same period of rise by city.

Would you rather have old city back and start again from national league, or keep City group as is now, but forever be known as cheats?
 
Sounding like media have jumped the gun and they have just presumed the outcome.

How anyone can support and be for ownership models like the city group may aswell call it a soap opera as it’s no longer a competitive sport.
 
The PL are clowns and the rules were and still are ridiculous.

As evidenced by our owners selling assets to themselves and most of our home developed players to get around all of it.

City spending their own money and better than other clubs should never have been gone after. Just damaging the image of the game and wasting tens of millions more on lawyers.

Going forward just put in flat caps on wages and transfer spending that apply equally to all clubs. Nice and clear with equally clear sanctions for breaking them.
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
How could rules agreed to by the members be unlawful?
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There are a lot of rules about what you can and cannot agree to. When we're dealing with a de facto monopoly, those rules are stricter. If a contract, or parts of a contract, breaks those rules, then it's not legally binding.
 
Mb194dc said:
The PL are clowns and the rules were and still are ridiculous.

As evidenced by our owners selling assets to themselves and most of our home developed players to get around all of it.

City spending their own money and better than other clubs should never have been gone after. Just damaging the image of the game and wasting tens of millions more on lawyers.

Going forward just put in flat caps on wages and transfer spending that apply equally to all clubs. Nice and clear with equally clear sanctions for breaking them.
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Off course city should be gone after; rightly so. Chelsea should be next.
 
John Cross was pretty shameless when talking about City the other night, other than clearly having a serious crush on Pep and Rodri, he also saw no irony in saying how wonderful City are, and that the Arsenal rivalry is so great for the game, and will be in the years to come, whilst then knocking SA for banning a Telegraph journo from the boxing for calling it “an unashamed sportswashing exercise”, when he has clearly fallen hook, line, and sinker, for the one going on at City.
 
Mb194dc said:
The PL are clowns and the rules were and still are ridiculous.

As evidenced by our owners selling assets to themselves and most of our home developed players to get around all of it.

City spending their own money and better than other clubs should never have been gone after. Just damaging the image of the game and wasting tens of millions more on lawyers.

Going forward just put in flat caps on wages and transfer spending that apply equally to all clubs. Nice and clear with equally clear sanctions for breaking them.
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You don't think a team who have systematically trodden on agreed rules should be gone after, using all manner of trickery to bypass the rules.
Yet naively think you can introduce your little caps and that teams will adhere to them :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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