City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

rimaldo said:
apparently they’ve sat guardiola by the window so the sunlight bounces off his head and into the eyes of the judge.
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Ah that's probably why ineos want to keep ETH, they probably see a similar use for him at some point
 
BuzzKillington said:
I’ve not followed this as much as I probably should do, but is the hacked evidence not going to cause the same issues it caused UEFA in that it’ll be struck out at some level of appeal in the future? I just can’t envision a resolution that is built on legally inadmissible evidence?
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I dont think it is legally inadmissable, it was only struck off by UEFA because it was time barred
 
Berbaclass said:
Bluemoon :lol:

When this is all over and all the smoke has cleared, Masters & the red shirts will have to look us in the eyes. It will be like ‘Battle of the Bastards’ in Game of Thrones where Ramsey Bolton comes face to face with Jon Snow.
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Berbaclass said:
They still think they are the good guys...
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Well, when you think about it; Ramsey came from nothing to build a dynasty, loved his dogs, and inspires others to follow his cause. Jon Snow is a silver spooned, personality vacuum who is into incest and does the same move in attack every damn time.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Well, when you think about it; Ramsey came from nothing to build a dynasty, loved his dogs, and inspires others to follow his cause. Jon Snow is a silver spooned, personality vacuum who is into incest and does the same move in attack every damn time.
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Good point.
 
Just pretend for a second, that probably the biggest case against cheating in the history of english football was about to start, but it was against Manchester United.

Don't even pretend there would be such utter silence. I say this understanding that things cant be said or alleged, but it barely even makes a headline on some football sites
 
Interesting snippet from Delaney's article in the Independent
As regards the facts of the dates that CAS ruled on, those time limits do not apply to the Premier League case. The English competition’s investigation also had access to a second tranche of Football Leaks emails that were released after the CAS decision, and essentially represented the documents that Uefa had been asking for throughout their case.
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Alex99 said:
Can the Premier League even relegate them?

They can effectively relegate them by ejecting them from the Premier League, but they surely can't force the Football League to actually accept them into the Championship, given the reason for their ejection will be a decade of cheating.

It's actually part of the reason I can't see anything significant happening. Why would any of the other league organisations take them on?

Being found guilty of it all should effectively end the club.
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They can certainly both give them a 200pts deduction, and expell them outright. What would happen City in relations to the Nationwide would be a result of the deals in place between PL and the EFL, and wether EFL would take some separate action towards City outside of that. Given the cost and scope of the PL’s action against City, I somehow find it hard to believe the EFL would be able to do something similar.

Either way, this shouldn’t be relevant to the PL, who are not responsible for their member clubs’ dealings with other organizations like the EFL. They need to have consequences within their organization to at all stay organized.
 
SER19 said:
Just pretend for a second, that probably the biggest case against cheating in the history of english football was about to start, but it was against Manchester United.

Don't even pretend there would be such utter silence. I say this understanding that things cant be said or alleged, but it barely even makes a headline on some football sites
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For me it's the 35 charges of failure to cooperate with an investigation that is the most damming of all the charges. It's one thing to fudge some rules or financial statements, you can hide behind all sorts of excuses for them. But once you are found out you just have to fess up rather than aggressively hinder an investigation - in any sort of other situation each one would surely be a relegation offence.

I honestly think they should face a lengthy ban from the premier league - as in decades if all 35 charges of failure to cooperate are proven.
 
Also in the Independent
City’s legal justification for refusing to co-operate with the Uefa case was the legal principle that information was “hacked or stolen”. That stance has further enraged some other executives, though. That is because the Premier League is actually nothing more than a members’ club, with the 20 partners merely signing up to its rules. This, in part, is why expulsion is being talked about.
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Mr Pigeon said:
Well, when you think about it; Ramsey came from nothing to build a dynasty, loved his dogs, and inspires others to follow his cause. Jon Snow is a silver spooned, personality vacuum who is into incest and does the same move in attack every damn time.
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Ramsey is himself a silver-spooned numpty. The show made a huge error killing off the ice-cold Roos Boulton, and having Joffrey 2 carry the can.

Not the last mistake they made, either.

Berbaclass said:
Interesting snippet from Delaney's article in the Independent
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Aye, certainly true.
 
buchansleftleg said:
For me it's the 35 charges of failure to cooperate with an investigation that is the most damming of all the charges. It's one thing to fudge some rules or financial statements, you can hide behind all sorts of excuses for them. But once you are found out you just have to fess up rather than aggressively hinder an investigation - in any sort of other situation each one would surely be a relegation offence.

I honestly think they should face a lengthy ban from the premier league - as in decades if all 35 charges of failure to cooperate are proven.
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I think they should get a points deduction that ends with relegation. Their story has been one of cumulative gains, and without the intial cheating that led to mancini, toure, aguero etc, you dont get de bruyne, you dont get guardiola, you simply cant have a decade of dominance that ends with the PL looking like to SPL, without that initial cheating. titles should be stripped, but wont be.
 
buchansleftleg said:
For me it's the 35 charges of failure to cooperate with an investigation that is the most damming of all the charges. It's one thing to fudge some rules or financial statements, you can hide behind all sorts of excuses for them. But once you are found out you just have to fess up rather than aggressively hinder an investigation - in any sort of other situation each one would surely be a relegation offence.

I honestly think they should face a lengthy ban from the premier league - as in decades if all 35 charges of failure to cooperate are proven.
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Yeah, I don't know how this will translate into punishment but the failure to cooperate charges seem both pretty open-and-shut (they simply refused to comply with requests for documents for years) and difficult for the PL to let slide with a slap on the wrist. If the precedent is set that clubs can just refuse to cooperate with any investigation without fear of meaningful sanction, who is going to cooperate in the future?
 
SER19 said:
Just pretend for a second, that probably the biggest case against cheating in the history of english football was about to start, but it was against Manchester United.

Don't even pretend there would be such utter silence. I say this understanding that things cant be said or alleged, but it barely even makes a headline on some football sites
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The leaking roof at OT has practically been a bigger story in the media over the last 2 years.
 
Rojofiam said:
Their fans are hyping up their lawyers on Twitter :lol: :lol: The fecking state of that
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Grande said:
They can certainly both give them a 200pts deduction, and expell them outright. What would happen City in relations to the Nationwide would be a result of the deals in place between PL and the EFL, and wether EFL would take some separate action towards City outside of that. Given the cost and scope of the PL’s action against City, I somehow find it hard to believe the EFL would be able to do something similar.

Either way, this shouldn’t be relevant to the PL, who are not responsible for their member clubs’ dealings with other organizations like the EFL. They need to have consequences within their organization to at all stay organized.
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My point is that a points deduction, no matter how large, isn't actually relegating them directly. In that instance, I don't think the EFL have any real recourse to prevent them entering the Championship.

I do think the EFL (and the National League, Northern Premier League, etc.) would have an argument for rejecting their entry if the Premier League just outright disqualified them and expelled them from the league. In those circumstances they're effectively in limbo, and need to seek re-entry into the pyramid wherever they can. However, this is also not direct relegation.
 
SER19 said:
Just pretend for a second, that probably the biggest case against cheating in the history of english football was about to start, but it was against Manchester United.

Don't even pretend there would be such utter silence. I say this understanding that things cant be said or alleged, but it barely even makes a headline on some
football sites
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Hasn't really been too many scandals in English football. More recent ones have been lower league betting syndicates.

One previous case of match fixing involved Utd, 1915 game vs Liverpool. Helped save Utd from relegation, although WW1 put a stop to football anyway, I think. From memory the proven perpetrators were banned for life, but had them overturned after the war in recognition of their war time service.

There was another one where Billy Meredith paid some Aston Villa players to lose a game, he was playing for City at the time. Funnily enough, he also played in the Liverpool fixed game but wasn't implicated. So, they have previous for cheating. Even more reason to throw the book at them.
 
They should spread the points deduction over the number of seasons in which irregularities occurred ie 2009-2023 which is 14 seasons. so 80 points deduction the first season, 75 the next season they are in the PL, 70 the next etc. That way they might yo-yo 2 or 3 times between PL and Championship and thereafter if they managed to stay in PL, they wouldn’t be able to qualify for European football for several more seasons. If there is leniency, they could cap the punishment at 14 years.
 
Alex99 said:
The problems with deducting them points within one season is that it is the same as them avoiding punishment.

For starters, you're genuinely looking at having to give them a 70+ point deduction to guarantee relegation. If they are given that points deduction, at worst they're facing one season out of the PL and two out of the CL, but they'll obviously just concentrate on the CL and the cups and could well not be out of Europe at all.
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3 points for every charge sounds about right.
 
Anything short of stripping domestic titles won in affected seasons is a slap on the wrist.
 
I still find it hard to believe that the Premier League will have capacity to convince an independent hearing of City’s guilt. I expect they will escape any serious punishment.

Even a relegation will only be a bump in the road for a year, hands the title to Arsenal when at time of all the alleged offences it was other teams who missed out on titles. The damage has been in terms of them building themselves up in terms of revenue etc, this is all a bit too late.
 
Roboc7 said:
I still find it hard to believe that the Premier League will have capacity to convince an independent hearing of City’s guilt. I expect they will escape any serious punishment.

Even a relegation will only be a bump in the road for a year, hands the title to Arsenal when at time of all the alleged offences it was other teams who missed out on titles. The damage has been in terms of them building themselves up in terms of revenue etc, this is all a bit too late.
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If they got relegated, every team in the country would sue them. Stoke, Sunderland, United, Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea, everyone. The money these clubs missed out on be it 4th place finishes or cup finals is astronomical. They need to be found guilty and then it'll really start.
 
Sunny Jim said:
I said it before, they will be off the hook in few months. Reason: technicalities, small prints and other petty shite.
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I don't really see how they can get away with the 35 charges of failing to cooperate.

Given that Everton were literally deducted points after cooperating with an investigation, the hammer really needs to come down on City for those at the very least.
 
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