City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

doubleohseven said:
Be surprised if this is anything but uefa wanting 'assurances' (i.e. a handout) from the government.

No silver bullet with which to bring city to justice.

It's not happening. uefa cannot coerce anything and England (the other three are expendable) refused entry to Euros would see retaliation with club competitions (city leading the vanguard, Ineos toadying) which uefa can do without.

The government consider the uae's dictatorship a key ally, despite everything, so there is no way pressure will be applied.

They will get off with it. Or, as ever bang to rights and reduced on appeal.

Nominal points deduction or easy fine at worst.
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Sorry but I don't buy that. The only way the government can put pressure on the PL is their proposal to regulate the league. With UEFA basically coming out in support of the PL and warning that this would result in them banning clubs, the government haven't got anything to pressure the league with anymore.

Governments will always fall on the side of businesses, their loyalty to the UAE is nothing more than money based. Damaging the country's key sporting export in order to not slightly annoy a country (who, remember, say that they don't actually own the club) would be mad.
 
SER19 said:
They know this is coming to nothing - that's the mood coming out of them and to be honest even the media. I haven't read a single thing discussing how a points deduction might impact the title.

Im convinced it will come to nothing for the same reasons their cheating was able to happen in the first place
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Not one of the dozens of pundits had City to finish outside the top 3 in their 'preseason predictions'. I interpreted that as them being instructed not to provoke any drama by giving coverage to City's charges. Surely not everyone in the media thinks they'll get away with it.
 
One of the more despicable characters in all this is Guardiola. A lot of the charges relate to a time before he was there yet he still comes out shilling for his paymasters. I think he's part of the reason british media are so soft on it too - plenty of these guys believe he walks on water and conduct themselves like giggling schoolgirls around him, as opposed to the way theyve taken on ten hag sometimes.

I cant put into words how little respect I have for this 'club' and everybody associated with them, including players who moved to them. Have very simply destroyed the integrity of the league
 
SER19 said:
One of the more despicable characters in all this is Guardiola. A lot of the charges relate to a time before he was there yet he still comes out shilling for his paymasters. I think he's part of the reason british media are so soft on it too - plenty of these guys believe he walks on water and conduct themselves like giggling schoolgirls around him, as opposed to the way theyve taken on ten hag sometimes.

I cant put into words how little respect I have for this 'club' and everybody associated with them, including players who moved to them. Have very simply destroyed the integrity of the league
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Yeah people need to realise that saying Premier League is no longer a competition isn't melodramatic
 
Ah, the meejia. Waist till you see the feeding frenzy on them blues once the harpoons go in.
 
doubleohseven said:
SER19 said:
Be surprised if this is anything but uefa wanting 'assurances' (i.e. a handout) from the government.
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No silver bullet with which to bring city to justice.

It's not happening. uefa cannot coerce anything and England (the other three are expendable) refused entry to Euros would see retaliation with club competitions (city leading the vanguard, Ineos toadying) which uefa can do without.

The government consider the uae's dictatorship a key ally, despite everything, so there is no way pressure will be applied.

They will get off with it. Or, as ever bang to rights and reduced on appeal.

Nominal points deduction or easy fine at worst.
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Mr Pigeon said:
Sorry but I don't buy that. The only way the government can put pressure on the PL is their proposal to regulate the league. With UEFA basically coming out in support of the PL and warning that this would result in them banning clubs, the government haven't got anything to pressure the league with anymore.
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That was my point, if you read it carefully. UEFA are siding with the EPL's clubs in pressuring the proposed moderator, not the EPL itself.

They are doing this maximise UEFA's power over the game's governance. Since the days of the G12 and onto the ESL, UEFA essentially prioritise placating the bigger, high-end clubs.


Mr Pigeon said:
Governments will always fall on the side of businesses, their loyalty to the UAE is nothing more than money based.
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Reductionism writ large. There will be ideological ambitions in play, also.

SER19 said:
One of the more despicable characters in all this is Guardiola
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Wears an emblem championing democracy whilst working for the UAE...
 
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What's borderline frightening, and an insight into how politics and culture wars become so tribal - is that I've never met a city fan who is willing to even seriously consider their guilt, or go one further and suspect that they are in fact guilty. The fans literally made a banner for their lawyer. One of the most surreal things I've ever seen.

They are wildly, relentlessly defending the integrity of a human rights abusing, criminal harbouring state, as if the very suggestion of them being corrupt is all part of some sort of childish sporting jealousy.

Its actually alarming. Everything about the club and their fans in contemptible.
 
SER19 said:
What's borderline frightening, and an insight into how politics and culture wars become so tribal - is that I've never met a city fan who is willing to even seriously consider their guilt, or go one further and suspect that they are in fact guilty. The fans literally made a banner for their lawyer. One of the most surreal things I've ever seen.

They are wildly, relentlessly defending the integrity of a human rights abusing, criminal harbouring state, as if the very suggestion of them being corrupt is all part of some sort of childish sporting jealousy.

Its actually alarming. Everything about the club and their fans in contemptible.
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They're just like their owners and manager - want success at all costs even if it is obtained illegally, and don't care how much damage they do along the way, so long as they get their own way.
 
SER19 said:
What's borderline frightening, and an insight into how politics and culture wars become so tribal - is that I've never met a city fan who is willing to even seriously consider their guilt, or go one further and suspect that they are in fact guilty. The fans literally made a banner for their lawyer. One of the most surreal things I've ever seen.

They are wildly, relentlessly defending the integrity of a human rights abusing, criminal harbouring state, as if the very suggestion of them being corrupt is all part of some sort of childish sporting jealousy.

Its actually alarming. Everything about the club and their fans in contemptible.
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I feel like it's an old tale

The downtrodden loser gets all they ever desired but at some hideous cost and they accept it.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Sorry but I don't buy that. The only way the government can put pressure on the PL is their proposal to regulate the league. With UEFA basically coming out in support of the PL and warning that this would result in them banning clubs, the government haven't got anything to pressure the league with anymore.

Governments will always fall on the side of businesses, their loyalty to the UAE is nothing more than money based. Damaging the country's key sporting export in order to not slightly annoy a country (who, remember, say that they don't actually own the club) would be mad.
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People have been saying for years that City won't be punished because 'UAE is so powerful/UK Govt will get down on their knees and swallow whatever UAE put in front of them'.

However, the problem is that everything we've seen does not support this - from a PL perspective. If this was the case, then this whole situation wouldn't have got here. The PL could've easily have said 'nothing to see' after the the UEFA case. For me, the question isn't whether City get a serious PL punishment. As the structure of the PL means that a serious punishment is required to keep the product 'real'. Rather it is how the EFL deal with them as there structure and profile means that they can be influenced more easily by UAE money or UK Govt pressure.

My stance has always been City get relegated as it benefits the PL. But the unknown is if the EFL will send them to the Champo or League Two/National League. The former provides a speed bump the latter a silver bullet, that for me is the question and will determine how much pressure the UK/UAE govt can apply.
SER19 said:
What's borderline frightening, and an insight into how politics and culture wars become so tribal - is that I've never met a city fan who is willing to even seriously consider their guilt, or go one further and suspect that they are in fact guilty. The fans literally made a banner for their lawyer. One of the most surreal things I've ever seen.

They are wildly, relentlessly defending the integrity of a human rights abusing, criminal harbouring state, as if the very suggestion of them being corrupt is all part of some sort of childish sporting jealousy.

Its actually alarming. Everything about the club and their fans in contemptible.
Click to expand...

Which City fans do you talk to? Online for sure they're like this. However, my Coty friends admit that they may be fecked and it'll be back to 'little City' for them if what has been 'hacked' is true and can be upheld.
 
On the one hand- 'surely nothing is gonna come out of it as they have too much power & standings by now...?'

On the other hand- 'surely the PL can't come out of this with nothing otherwise they look like complete clowns, and the other clubs will give them hell..?'

Which is it then?
My fear, on top of them getting away scott free, is that we as football fans of other club with accept it as part of the world being a shitty unjust place.
As we always do with regards to football, politics and life in general.

Imagine if it was actually realistic for fans to stop attending games, making the PL product essentially void?
Would be so satisfying.
 
Dave Smith said:
People have been saying for years that City won't be punished because 'UAE is so powerful/UK Govt will get down on their knees and swallow whatever UAE put in front of them'.

However, the problem is that everything we've seen does not support this - from a PL perspective. If this was the case, then this whole situation wouldn't have got here. The PL could've easily have said 'nothing to see' after the the UEFA case. For me, the question isn't whether City get a serious PL punishment. As the structure of the PL means that a serious punishment is required to keep the product 'real'. Rather it is how the EFL deal with them as there structure and profile means that they can be influenced more easily by UAE money or UK Govt pressure.

My stance has always been City get relegated as it benefits the PL. But the unknown is if the EFL will send them to the Champo or League Two/National League. The former provides a speed bump the latter a silver bullet, that for me is the question and will determine how much pressure the UK/UAE govt can apply.


Which City fans do you talk to? Online for sure they're like this. However, my Coty friends admit that they may be fecked and it'll be back to 'little City' for them if what has been 'hacked' is true and can be upheld.
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Is that the same though? They can admit they'll be in trouble if convicted, but my point is that I've never encountered one online or otherwise who thinks is plausible/likely that they are cheats.
 
SER19 said:
Is that the same though? They can admit they'll be in trouble if convicted, but my point is that I've never encountered one online or otherwise who thinks is plausible/likely that they are cheats.
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But you have none City fans like @NicolaSacco that do the same. He doesn’t see them as cheats as he/she has convinced themself that FFP is all about protecting the big clubs and creating a monopoly. So they use this to just discount FFP altogether.
You can’t cheat if the rules are bullshit, or something along those lines.
 
Dave Smith said:
People have been saying for years that City won't be punished because 'UAE is so powerful/UK Govt will get down on their knees and swallow whatever UAE put in front of them'.

However, the problem is that everything we've seen does not support this - from a PL perspective. If this was the case, then this whole situation wouldn't have got here. The PL could've easily have said 'nothing to see' after the the UEFA case. For me, the question isn't whether City get a serious PL punishment. As the structure of the PL means that a serious punishment is required to keep the product 'real'. Rather it is how the EFL deal with them as there structure and profile means that they can be influenced more easily by UAE money or UK Govt pressure.

My stance has always been City get relegated as it benefits the PL. But the unknown is if the EFL will send them to the Champo or League Two/National League. The former provides a speed bump the latter a silver bullet, that for me is the question and will determine how much pressure the UK/UAE govt can apply.


Which City fans do you talk to? Online for sure they're like this. However, my Coty friends admit that they may be fecked and it'll be back to 'little City' for them if what has been 'hacked' is true and can be upheld.
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You could just as easily argue that they couldn't, given the talk of a regulator.

I don' think this is as binary as people try to make it out to be.
 
For them to get off with technicalities is one thing, but if a found guilty and a light punishment are given, it’d make the Pl look absolutely stupid.

There’s surely no way the PL would go lightly after all this
 
Igor Drefljak said:
For them to get off with technicalities is one thing, but if a found guilty and a light punishment are given, it’d make the Pl look absolutely stupid.

There’s surely no way the PL would go lightly after all this
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Them getting away on a technicality will also make the PL look stupid.
 
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SER19 said:
What's borderline frightening, and an insight into how politics and culture wars become so tribal - is that I've never met a city fan who is willing to even seriously consider their guilt, or go one further and suspect that they are in fact guilty. The fans literally made a banner for their lawyer. One of the most surreal things I've ever seen.

They are wildly, relentlessly defending the integrity of a human rights abusing, criminal harbouring state, as if the very suggestion of them being corrupt is all part of some sort of childish sporting jealousy.

Its actually alarming. Everything about the club and their fans in contemptible.
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Trumpian. That's what city's apologists are, Trumpian. They'd believe any theory which serves their entitlement.

Cabal? Tick. 'Red Cartel'? Tick. UEFA having it in for them? Tick. Witch-hunt? Tick.

They know it's nonsense but they know they want it to be true more. Anything but fifteenth to relegation again. Anything. Morals or 'owning the rags'.

In their defence, and a slight one at it, city had zero chance at ever competing at the highest level without some form of major investment. Not simply because of themselves, but in the way the sport is organised.

Their 'elitist' arguments are valid albeit insufficient in this regard. Insufficient because they now constitute the very elite they are now denouncing. In fact, they've made the problem exponentially worse.

Guardiola's projection of democracy whilst being paid thousands to be the acceptable face of a brutal dictatorship is apt.

LGBTQ banners at the ground. Ukraine flags as their beloved owners welcome Putin. 'Yeah but the west...'

I truly despise Ratcliffe, I really do, but a five-minute conversation about it with a city fan (I live in Stockport) makes me so glad we avoided Qatar.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
But you have none City fans like @NicolaSacco that do the same. He doesn’t see them as cheats as he/she has convinced themself that FFP is all about protecting the big clubs and creating a monopoly. So they use this to just discount FFP altogether.
You can’t cheat if the rules are bullshit, or something along those lines.
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exactly, theres all sorts of juvenile conspiracy theories and mental gymnastics, and there has been for a decade.
 
A lot is at stake here. I just hope the PL realizes the sporting integrity of the PL needs to be fixed. If Cheaty get off lightly, I‘m not sure I‘ll bother watching the PL next season.
 
Dave Smith said:
People have been saying for years that City won't be punished because 'UAE is so powerful/UK Govt will get down on their knees and swallow whatever UAE put in front of them'.

However, the problem is that everything we've seen does not support this - from a PL perspective. If this was the case, then this whole situation wouldn't have got here. The PL could've easily have said 'nothing to see' after the the UEFA case. For me, the question isn't whether City get a serious PL punishment. As the structure of the PL means that a serious punishment is required to keep the product 'real'. Rather it is how the EFL deal with them as there structure and profile means that they can be influenced more easily by UAE money or UK Govt pressure.

My stance has always been City get relegated as it benefits the PL. But the unknown is if the EFL will send them to the Champo or League Two/National League. The former provides a speed bump the latter a silver bullet, that for me is the question and will determine how much pressure the UK/UAE govt can apply.


Which City fans do you talk to? Online for sure they're like this. However, my Coty friends admit that they may be fecked and it'll be back to 'little City' for them if what has been 'hacked' is true and can be upheld.
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There’s a whole range of responses to it amongst the city fans I know, but hardly any of them seem bothered in the slightest. They have a very strange, cultish fan base.

One guy in particular doesn’t see why it’s a problem, and endlessly compares it to United becoming rich in the 80s/90s and buying all the best players, what’s the difference? This defence seems to be the rules aren't fair so it doesn’t matter that they broke them.

There’s also plenty who are of the opinion that it’s been a great ride and no punishment can take their memories of the last 15 years away.

I really hope they end up in the national league.
 
NLunited said:
A lot is at stake here. I just hope the PL realizes the sporting integrity of the PL needs to be fixed. If Cheaty get off lightly, I‘m not sure I‘ll bother watching the PL next season.
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I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

At least when United were dominating it didn't affect viewing figures because most oppo fans hate United and were desperate for anyone to beat United to the title. But with City very few give a feck about them one way or the other. Even becoming implicated in the biggest cheating scandal in English football history hasn't did much to move the needle for most football fans.
 
I can't see how they don't get the book thrown at them.

People often forget that the Premier League is just a group of the 20 clubs not some separate organisation like the FA/UEFA.

Is there literally any reason for any of those clubs to not want to feck them off into oblivion?

All of the major clubs in the league will want rid of them for one reason or another I suspect.
 
Berbaclass said:
I can't see how they don't get the book thrown at them.

People often forget that the Premier League is just a group of the 20 clubs not some separate organisation like the FA/UEFA.

Is there literally any reason for any of those clubs to not want to feck them off into oblivion?

All of the major clubs in the league will want rid of them for one reason or another I suspect.
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The counts will be heard by a three-person independent commission
 
NLunited said:
A lot is at stake here. I just hope the PL realizes the sporting integrity of the PL needs to be fixed. If Cheaty get off lightly, I‘m not sure I‘ll bother watching the PL next season.
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It’s difficult to see how PL can avvoid relegating City as part of the consequences, given the punishments Everton and Nottingham Forest got for a minor fraction if the offences.
 
apparently they’ve sat guardiola by the window so the sunlight bounces off his head and into the eyes of the judge.
 
Grande said:
It’s difficult to see how PL can avvoid relegating City as part of the consequences, given the punishments Everton and Nottingham Forest got for a minor fraction if the offences.
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Can the Premier League even relegate them?

They can effectively relegate them by ejecting them from the Premier League, but they surely can't force the Football League to actually accept them into the Championship, given the reason for their ejection will be a decade of cheating.

It's actually part of the reason I can't see anything significant happening. Why would any of the other league organisations take them on?

Being found guilty of it all should effectively end the club.
 
Berbaclass said:
They should just let ChatGPT decide. Let the machines deal with them.
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I asked ChatGPT and it reckons they'll probably get away with most of it.

If I had to make a best guess, I'd lean toward no—Manchester City will likely avoid a full guilty verdict, as they have a strong legal defense and past success in similar cases (like with UEFA). However, some minor infractions or a partial finding of guilt could still be possible.
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Alex99 said:
Can the Premier League even relegate them?

They can effectively relegate them by ejecting them from the Premier League, but they surely can't force the Football League to actually accept them into the Championship, given the reason for their ejection will be a decade of cheating.

It's actually part of the reason I can't see anything significant happening. Why would any of the other league organisations take them on?

Being found guilty of it all should effectively end the club.
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I think if they relegate them through a points deduction then surely the EFL can't do anything about it?
 
Bluemoon :lol:
When this is all over and all the smoke has cleared, Masters & the red shirts will have to look us in the eyes. It will be like ‘Battle of the Bastards’ in Game of Thrones where Ramsey Bolton comes face to face with Jon Snow.
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They still think they are the good guys...
 
Berbaclass said:
I think if they relegate them through a points deduction then surely the EFL can't do anything about it?
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The problems with deducting them points within one season is that it is the same as them avoiding punishment.

For starters, you're genuinely looking at having to give them a 70+ point deduction to guarantee relegation. If they are given that points deduction, at worst they're facing one season out of the PL and two out of the CL, but they'll obviously just concentrate on the CL and the cups and could well not be out of Europe at all.
 
Dave Smith said:
People have been saying for years that City won't be punished because 'UAE is so powerful/UK Govt will get down on their knees and swallow whatever UAE put in front of them'.

However, the problem is that everything we've seen does not support this - from a PL perspective. If this was the case, then this whole situation wouldn't have got here. The PL could've easily have said 'nothing to see' after the the UEFA case. For me, the question isn't whether City get a serious PL punishment. As the structure of the PL means that a serious punishment is required to keep the product 'real'. Rather it is how the EFL deal with them as there structure and profile means that they can be influenced more easily by UAE money or UK Govt pressure.

My stance has always been City get relegated as it benefits the PL. But the unknown is if the EFL will send them to the Champo or League Two/National League. The former provides a speed bump the latter a silver bullet, that for me is the question and will determine how much pressure the UK/UAE govt can apply.


Which City fans do you talk to? Online for sure they're like this. However, my Coty friends admit that they may be fecked and it'll be back to 'little City' for them if what has been 'hacked' is true and can be upheld.
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I’ve not followed this as much as I probably should do, but is the hacked evidence not going to cause the same issues it caused UEFA in that it’ll be struck out at some level of appeal in the future? I just can’t envision a resolution that is built on legally inadmissible evidence?
 
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