City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Not getting sucked into this until a real punishment has been decided. I also think point deduction won't really be enough, they'll be back a year later and get back to their old shenanigans.

Depends on where they end up really, bottom of the pyramid and it's the end of Man City, If they drop down to the Championship they will have a core of player willing to hang around for a year and come back up.

Wonder if a load of their players have some sort of exit clause if they're relegated though as would probably hurt them more.

But going forward the club and everything it has achieved will be tainted, you can't just brush this off and move on.
 
Depends on where they end up really, bottom of the pyramid and it's the end of Man City, If they drop down to the Championship they will have a core of player willing to hang around for a year and come back up.

Wonder if a load of their players have some sort of exit clause if they're relegated though as would probably hurt them more.

But going forward the club and everything it has achieved will be tainted, you can't just brush this off and move on.
Like it tainted Juventus?
 
Like it tainted Juventus?

It did taint juventus to be fair and still does. I certainly can't think of them they way i used to and that's despite the fact that they were a club with a fantastic history and recent history and legendary players.

City were getting battered by Middlesbrough and nobody really knew they existed then they cheated. They've no good history in the bank whatsoever. They are a repulsive club even in 'success'.
 
I still think a deal will be agreed behind the scenes. One which looks like the PL have acted strongly but that Abu Dhabi are happy with.

Something like a £500m fine - which whilst a lot of money - isn't that considerable to AD in the grand scheme of things. The PL looks strong and City get away relatively scot free. The may even throw in a points deduction of 6-20 points which will be reduced on appeal.

There's just no way I can see them being relegated or stripped of the titles. The UK government won't want to upset their UAE counterparts - it was admitted that the City hearing has been discussed at government level and the FOI request wasn't disclosed because it contained 'sensitive information' so who knows what is happening behind the scenes.

This feels the most realistic outcome. Expecting the PL to stand up against the political manoeuvrings clearly going on seems naive to me.
 
Have to admit my level of interest in football lives and dies with this hearing.
 
I still think a deal will be agreed behind the scenes. One which looks like the PL have acted strongly but that Abu Dhabi are happy with.

Something like a £500m fine - which whilst a lot of money - isn't that considerable to AD in the grand scheme of things. The PL looks strong and City get away relatively scot free. The may even throw in a points deduction of 6-20 points which will be reduced on appeal.

There's just no way I can see them being relegated or stripped of the titles. The UK government won't want to upset their UAE counterparts - it was admitted that the City hearing has been discussed at government level and the FOI request wasn't disclosed because it contained 'sensitive information' so who knows what is happening behind the scenes.
I personally don't think the UK government would protect them. I'm Irish and not going to pretend I understand the politics in England. Personally, I would imagine they would want to be seen to have a fair penalty and it would be an 'easy' thing to please the public with. They jumped on the Super League proposal, didn't they bring it up in the house of commons?

Football is so important and popular, it would be an easy thing for those in power to 'protect'.
 
Never in depth
To be fair though, is there any point discussing it in depth? Any discussion has the caveat of ‘if they’re found guilty’, so it’s basically a hypothetical conversation.

If they’re found guilty, not only are they given the green light legally speaking, there’s a lot more to discuss.
 
I'm wondering how and when the hoped-for points deduction will be announced and implemented. Think about it: if they announce a withering punishment - say enough of a point deduction that guarantees they are dumped into League One - before the end of the year, then every match they play after the announcement they will know is meaningless. How does that affect the clubs they played before the announcement? Their second half of the season will be a dead rubber.

Then there's the monetary compensation to all the clubs they cheated out of being able to play CL and EL football. Monetary compensation for clubs relegated and so on. That's more of a disgorgement, taking away what they had no right to have. Then after that, comes the fines. Since they basically print their own money, any sort of fine is going to be a slap on the wrist, and real punishment will have to be in the form of voiding achievements. Maybe a season where they play every home match behind closed doors too.

The FA is at a crossroads here.
 
I still think a deal will be agreed behind the scenes. One which looks like the PL have acted strongly but that Abu Dhabi are happy with.

Something like a £500m fine - which whilst a lot of money - isn't that considerable to AD in the grand scheme of things. The PL looks strong and City get away relatively scot free. The may even throw in a points deduction of 6-20 points which will be reduced on appeal.

There's just no way I can see them being relegated or stripped of the titles. The UK government won't want to upset their UAE counterparts - it was admitted that the City hearing has been discussed at government level and the FOI request wasn't disclosed because it contained 'sensitive information' so who knows what is happening behind the scenes.
Wouldn't be surprised if this is ballpark where we end up.
 
I'm wondering how and when the hoped-for points deduction will be announced and implemented. Think about it: if they announce a withering punishment - say enough of a point deduction that guarantees they are dumped into League One - before the end of the year, then every match they play after the announcement they will know is meaningless. How does that affect the clubs they played before the announcement? Their second half of the season will be a dead rubber.

Then there's the monetary compensation to all the clubs they cheated out of being able to play CL and EL football. Monetary compensation for clubs relegated and so on. That's more of a disgorgement, taking away what they had no right to have. Then after that, comes the fines. Since they basically print their own money, any sort of fine is going to be a slap on the wrist, and real punishment will have to be in the form of voiding achievements. Maybe a season where they play every home match behind closed doors too.

The FA is at a crossroads here.
I heard on the radio the other day that it probably wouldn’t be until spring until a decision is made. To me the sensible outcome for a points deduction would be at the start of the following season. I’m also unsure whether City would be able to lodge an appeal.
 
I heard on the radio the other day that it probably wouldn’t be until spring until a decision is made. To me the sensible outcome for a points deduction would be at the start of the following season. I’m also unsure whether City would be able to lodge an appeal.
I think you're right. Announced in the summer, right before the City open top bus parade.
 
I still think a deal will be agreed behind the scenes. One which looks like the PL have acted strongly but that Abu Dhabi are happy with.

Something like a £500m fine - which whilst a lot of money - isn't that considerable to AD in the grand scheme of things. The PL looks strong and City get away relatively scot free. The may even throw in a points deduction of 6-20 points which will be reduced on appeal.

There's just no way I can see them being relegated or stripped of the titles. The UK government won't want to upset their UAE counterparts - it was admitted that the City hearing has been discussed at government level and the FOI request wasn't disclosed because it contained 'sensitive information' so who knows what is happening behind the scenes.

Everyone knows anything that involves money as a punishment is a waste of time.

When they're found guilty, the only thing that will matter to anyone is how many points they will have taken off them (and over how many years it will be done over), if they're going to lose past titles, and what they will do with their owners moving forward.

We might as well just all pack up if they are just going to fine them for what they've done.
 
It's certainly going to lose a lot of its luster.

Probably will end up with people devoting more time to their local clubs and/or finding a new club in a new league altogether.

Yeah and I wouldn't blame them one bit, what's the point when teams can cheat with ease and face little punishment for those actions
 
It's certainly going to lose a lot of its luster.

Probably will end up with people devoting more time to their local clubs and/or finding a new club in a new league altogether.
I have a few friends that have already defected to Stockport for this very reason. It’s a sad state of affairs.
 
Honestly, if the scum manage to win their case, the other 19 premier league teams should decide not to play against them. It’s disgusting how they’ve been allowed to get away with what is objectively cheating, and they should be forcibly liquidated at the very least.
 
Honestly, if the scum manage to win their case, the other 19 premier league teams should decide not to play against them. It’s disgusting how they’ve been allowed to get away with what is objectively cheating, and they should be forcibly liquidated at the very least.

They haven't got the guts to do it partly because some sops in this league like Villa feel sorry for them
 
Yeah just want the Armstrong method

Generating FM signals or producing Titanium?



But yeah I couldn't stomach Starfish even 10 years after the fact 'winning' the league. It's one of the great joys in life to know that Twat never won one.
 
Generating FM signals or producing Titanium?



But yeah I couldn't stomach Starfish even 10 years after the fact 'winning' the league. It's one of the great joys in life to know that Twat never won one.

Yeah just want those seasons voided
 
I suspect if there is significant punishment Abu Dhabi will withdraw it's investments from the UK completely, to teach us a lesson. I don't know much about their investments but I suppose it would result in job losses and reduced taxes one way or another but so be it, can't be blackmailed.

They’re a massive importer of weapons from the UK, they don’t invest in us for charity - and war is bigger business than football, so I doubt it would have much impact.
 
To be fair though, is there any point discussing it in depth?
Yes of course. Discussing the facts, the potential outcomes, doing in depth analysis of the leaks, etc. is what serious journalists that would want to present an unbiased view of the situation would do.

SkySports have no intention of doing that.
 
They’re a massive importer of weapons from the UK, they don’t invest in us for charity - and war is bigger business than football, so I doubt it would have much impact.
They are a large importer, but other countries would fall over each other to take our place and sell them instead, they wouldn't suffer any shortage of arms. The switch would be their punishment to the UK.

What you say is one of the reasons why some think the UK governement will lean on the Prem to do a deal acceptable to Abu Dhabi, to save investment and jobs. I'm not predicting either way on that, it's possible, but even if it were done we might not find out for sure for many years. A wait and see at the moment anyway.
 
Who the feck is Starfish?

Who else?

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Yes of course. Discussing the facts, the potential outcomes, doing in depth analysis of the leaks, etc. is what serious journalists that would want to present an unbiased view of the situation would do.

SkySports have no intention of doing that.
Thing is, I don’t think even the serious journalists know the answers to those questions, and even speculating could jeopardise who knows what - it is an ongoing case after all.

Nobody knows what the outcome will be as there’s not really a precedent for it. It’s all up in the air until the verdict. At which point there’ll be a media frenzy, rightly so.
 
Their guilt is an inevitability at this stage. City have invested huge resources into delay tactics rather than fighting the claims. The timeline was posted earlier in this thread but essentially the hearing could have been completed over 3 years ago.

Kicking the can down the road isn't the action of an entity believing they can defend their actions. Let's not forget this is a civil matter too. The EPL need to prove City probably broke their rules. They have to prove it is more likely, than not, the allegations occured.

Once proven, I suspect City are in for a decade of legal issues. There are the criminal issues. False accounting (Section 17 Theft Act 1968) seems nailed on for the high level executives. Concealing criminal property (Section 327 POCA 2000) which is effectively money laundering. Then you have the fact this is effectively a complex fraud (resists making a Fraudiola reference). City have repeatedly made false representations from which they gained, and others were exposed to a risk of loss (Section 2 Fraud Act 2006). The most appropriate primacy for the investigation is likely the National Crime Agency (NCA) and Serious Fraud Office (SFO). That'll take a few years to unpick I suspect, a few convictions coming out of that. Custody threshold definitely passed when considering the societal importance of sport and the reputational damage to one of our biggest global exports.

Then all the civil stuff will begin. Every time City have finished ahead of another team, they've cost each team ~£1m in finishing position prize money. Years they've won, that's £19m. Second, £18m, etc. 15 years of it going to be around £200m. Then you have teams being relegated because City were cheating to stay in the league. Then the teams losing out on Champions League, Europa League and Conference League football because of a cheating team finishing ahead. The sponsorship implications of those losses. City have probably cost other teams around £750-1bn in lost revenues, just on those factors alone.

In short, I'd expect a couple of decent prison sentences for the coordinators of the conspiracy to defraud and financial ruin for City but likely playing out until 2035.
Yeah.
I don't think I can be arsed to wait that long so I'm writing this off.
They've done what they set out to do really.
 
Thing is, I don’t think even the serious journalists know the answers to those questions, and even speculating could jeopardise who knows what - it is an ongoing case after all.
That's just blatantly untrue because other outlets have reported on this.

Not exactly sure why you've picked this hill to die on, Sky obviously have a conflict of interest when talking about anything that might devalue their product.