What's the gist of it? (+1 hour read) What sentence are they facing if found guilty, and what's the most likely outcome?
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
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What's the gist of it? (+1 hour read) What sentence are they facing if found guilty, and what's the most likely outcome?
To be fair, Harwood-Bellis for £20m is a fair fee and was contigent on him starting a set amount of games and getting promoted so all in all it was a good deal for all parties - and will likely benefit Southampton more. He's looked a step above in the Championship whenever I've seen him and he could have easily went to a PL team last summer.
I've read the mentioned 1h+ thread and it's interesting. Blatant cheating.
This explanation needs to be picked up by mainstream media now it's easier to understand and put out there for others to read.
Having read some of those e-mails I've no idea how anyone can determine they're not guilty.
They're literally discussing the fact of how much money they need from the owners for the year, that they need to come via sponsors because the auditors were asking about the money last year, discussions about invoices from the directors, owners to the sponsors and telling the sponsors to send the money to MCFC and that for example 8m is their sponsorship and the rest of the money is sent from the owners to the sponsor. The fact they're all clearly in on this from day one.
Directors making it clear that this cannot be mentioned outside of the club, and saying to the owners reps they have to declare it as sponsorship rather than equity due to FFP.
And e-mails clearly confirming that funds have been sent and have been received etc.
It's literally written confessions and evidence of purposely cheating over many years. How the hell is this not just an open and shut case (Well.. because UEFA were confident and messed up and it CAS intervened).
The e-mails even confirm they're clearly state owned even though MCFC are adament they are not. Surely that's grounds to ban them. The fact they're flat out not complying, another reason to ban them.
If this was to properly be explained via a Dispatches documentary or something I've no idea how anyone should argue that they're effectively banned from the competition permanently (until proper due-diligence is done - ie. owners sell, or independent people can verify all monies received) and stripped of all titles.
God knowns what else has happened with regards to back hand payments and whether that just stretches to the playing staff or to anything else.
It literally just makes a mockery of the Premiership and English football and the whole last decade has essentially just been a waste of time.
How the hell are people not literally talking about this 24/7 and properly bringing it up and wanting something to actually be done about it?
This explanation needs to be picked up by mainstream media now it's easier to understand and put out there for others to read.
Having read some of those e-mails I've no idea how anyone can determine they're not guilty.
They're literally discussing the fact of how much money they need from the owners for the year, that they need to come via sponsors because the auditors were asking about the money last year, discussions about invoices from the directors, owners to the sponsors and telling the sponsors to send the money to MCFC and that for example 8m is their sponsorship and the rest of the money is sent from the owners to the sponsor. The fact they're all clearly in on this from day one.
Directors making it clear that this cannot be mentioned outside of the club, and saying to the owners reps they have to declare it as sponsorship rather than equity due to FFP.
And e-mails clearly confirming that funds have been sent and have been received etc.
It's literally written confessions and evidence of purposely cheating over many years. How the hell is this not just an open and shut case (Well.. because UEFA were confident and messed up and it CAS intervened).
The e-mails even confirm they're clearly state owned even though MCFC are adament they are not. Surely that's grounds to ban them. The fact they're flat out not complying, another reason to ban them.
If this was to properly be explained via a Dispatches documentary or something I've no idea how anyone should argue that they're effectively banned from the competition permanently (until proper due-diligence is done - ie. owners sell, or independent people can verify all monies received) and stripped of all titles.
God knowns what else has happened with regards to back hand payments and whether that just stretches to the playing staff or to anything else.
It literally just makes a mockery of the Premiership and English football and the whole last decade has essentially just been a waste of time.
How the hell are people not literally talking about this 24/7 and properly bringing it up and wanting something to actually be done about it?
Yeah this is starting to get sad now. City are now the most successful club in English football and the fans of the "traditional" successful teams are performing mental gymnastics to convince themselves this is not right.
Do you know why City are getting away with all this? Because they have not done anything illegal. They aren't corrupt, they didn't steal money from the game. They certainly didn't cheat in the game unfairly. Their "crime" is to throw in tonnes of their own money into the game. If you want to make it illegal for owners and investors to put in money in their businesses, you are crazy. This is the kind of behaviour goverments encourage for the good of the economy.
Next is the mental gymnastics in claiming City is cheating by not complying with FFP. This is blatant misunderstanding of what FFP is meant to do. FFP prevents clubs from overspending beyond their means to keep the league in good financial health. This makes it a moot point to charge City with it as we all know they are good for the cash they spend. They will never go bankrupt.
Why do you want to punish teams for having too much money to spend anyway? Can you really stop rich people from generating income if that is what you want to use to measure financial health? What's the difference between having the owner directly infuse the club with a billion dollars vs the owners giving their subsidiary businesses billions who then in turn use the money to sponsor the club? City's crime here is that they were too lazy to do the latter cleanly and just went for the former as a shortcut and did not get their books right for FFP requirements. Now they just want to buy some time to cook the books to show that money is indeed routed as sponsorships instead of undertable directly. While this is super shady, I don't think any judge is going to punish them for it as they aren't stealing money but instead giving it away.
Those who try to make FFP as if it is a means of ensuring financial equality are just utterly deluded. There are no financial equality laws in English football. Rich teams are allowed to spend more than poor teams. How is fair that big clubs with huge incomes are allowed to spend more than small clubs with lower revenues and crush them? Since this is allowed, how is it unfair that City just have the owners generate income for the club directly instead to compete?
If we want a truly fair league, we need to start integrating salary caps like in US sports. This is the only way for small clubs in smaller cities to have a chance to compete against the big boys. But no, no one here actually wants that. They are just unhappy about no longer being top dogs.
Do you know why City are getting away with all this? Because they have not done anything illegal. They aren't corrupt, they didn't steal money from the game. They certainly didn't cheat in the game unfairly. Their "crime" is to throw in tonnes of their own money into the game. If you want to make it illegal for owners and investors to put in money in their businesses, you are crazy. This is the kind of behaviour goverments encourage for the good of the economy.
Next is the mental gymnastics in claiming City is cheating by not complying with FFP. This is blatant misunderstanding of what FFP is meant to do. FFP prevents clubs from overspending beyond their means to keep the league in good financial health. This makes it a moot point to charge City with it as we all know they are good for the cash they spend. They will never go bankrupt.
Why do you want to punish teams for having too much money to spend anyway? Can you really stop rich people from generating income if that is what you want to use to measure financial health? What's the difference between having the owner directly infuse the club with a billion dollars vs the owners giving their subsidiary businesses billions who then in turn use the money to sponsor the club? City's crime here is that they were too lazy to do the latter cleanly and just went for the former as a shortcut and did not get their books right for FFP requirements. Now they just want to buy some time to cook the books to show that money is indeed routed as sponsorships instead of undertable directly. While this is super shady, I don't think any judge is going to punish them for it as they aren't stealing money but instead giving it away.
Those who try to make FFP as if it is a means of ensuring financial equality are just utterly deluded. There are no financial equality laws in English football. Rich teams are allowed to spend more than poor teams. How is fair that big clubs with huge incomes are allowed to spend more than small clubs with lower revenues and crush them? Since this is allowed, how is it unfair that City just have the owners generate income for the club directly instead to compete?
If we want a truly fair league, we need to start integrating salary caps like in US sports. This is the only way for small clubs in smaller cities to have a chance to compete against the big boys. But no, no one here actually wants that. They are just unhappy about no longer being top dogs.
Basically, evidence in black and white of their highest ranking employees plus Abu Dhabi government officials directing hundreds of millions to be disguised as ‘sponsorship’ income.
They even go back and forth about certain terminology needing to be changed on invoices etc for ‘auditing purposes’ if certain information is going ‘outside of the club’.
It’s disgusting.
Also, explains how loads of good evidence was left out of the CAS case for some reason and that UEFA were basically told to show bank receipts from Abu Dhabi accounts which was impossible because City didn’t have to provide.
As for sentence, he says, like many have said relegation or worse.
He says there’s a high possibility of them being convicted but obviously can’t know for sure.
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Hear hear
Lots of newbies with interesting opinions again. Not suspicious at all, if you ask me.
I'll make this simple for you: They weren't spending "their own money". They were spending the money a royal family have extracted from a nation state.
And that's not even including the evidence of illegally signing underage players, payments to Mancini via Al Jazeera which again is against the rules.
Saying all of this is fine because FFP is there to stop clubs going bankrupt when all other clubs need to adhere - it clearly affects and stops other clubs from investing money they otherwise would because they need to adhere to these rules.
Also, they've clearly become more creative than what was initially found, this will just be the tip of the iceberg.
Saying all of this is fine because FFP is there to stop clubs going bankrupt when all other clubs need to adhere - it clearly affects and stops other clubs from investing money they otherwise would because they need to adhere to these rules.
Also, they've clearly become more creative than what was initially found, this will just be the tip of the iceberg.
Despite apparently having the best lawyers they have alledgedly taken the Premier League to court twice already over this and lost both times.
Also they cant drag it out for years if found guilty as the rules state they get only 1 appeal and the appeals panel's verdict is final.
The issue here is that you are assuming that owners giving money to other businesses, which in term uses it to sponsor the club, is cheating. However, doing this breaks no laws and no rules so you can't charge them for it. It is perfectly legal and also not morally wrong.
The issue here is FFP has no actual way of measuring the financial health of a club other that using their revenue as a gauge. So guys like Zuckerburg who makes $1 a year from Meta is seen as poor and are not allowed to spend to buy yatches. So Zuckerburg's reps are telling him to get his businesses to pay him a big salary instead so he can spend under FFP rules to buy his yatch. Somehow you guys think it's illegal and cheating for Zuckerburg to pay himself money with his own money. Why?
The reason they aren't afraid of this email trail and are open about it is that they know all the stuff in the email is perfectly legal and acceptable. And also morally right. Yes it pisses off the fans of the other teams that they can pay themselves unlimted money, but who gives an F about them?
My guess here is that City gets a slap on the wrist for not doing their books properly and also not cooperating with investigations. However, it's really hard to find any signs of wrongdoing aside from stuff that disgusts fans from rival teams as they start to realise how far apart they are from the City Empire.
As bad a post as I’ve ever read on here. You get bad posts from people who are simply too thick to know better, but this guy has a brain and is actively peddling this shit. Shameful.
And if the royal family owns the club, is it wrong for them to spend their money the way they want?
This isn't Madrid where the government spends taxpayer money on the club. The royal family literally dug out some liquid from the ground, sell it and give them money to the English club they own. I don't see how this is illegal or unethical in any way.
It's already been some years and there's no judgement in sight while other teams are being docked points
Cheers! Good thing at least is that lawyers can see what went wrong in the CAS case now, so the same mistakes wont be done twice. Should be a more resilient case this time around and out of 115 charges, I’d be amazed if not many of them sticks.
I think this is just too large for people to wrap their heads around. If proven, the only realistic punishment is expulsion from the league, which could easily prompt them stepping away from the club. That would be more than just a sporting story, it would be a global political incident, given the owners of the club.
Not only would this be a remarkable political snub to Abu Dhabi, there would also be load of other ramifications coming out of it. If the Abu Dhabi group pulled out of City entirely, what would happen to the vast portfolio of property they own across Manchester? What would happen to the other clubs they own around the world? What about its deals with Manchester City Council? Could this even impact on other forms of trade between UAE and Britain?
I think a lot of journos are just waiting to see what happens before trying unpack it all. Once a judgement lands, it'll be the biggest non-sporting story in football probably ever. And we'll see a shedload of commentary on it all then. Until then - the charges are in place, the process will happen. Its just the calm before the storm.
Because those teams had single offences that they didn't try and cover up. City have 115 and they've been systematically lying about it for years. The case is probably 100x more complex.
TLDR; Pep has signed up to RedCafe! So so happy! Welcome!
There are 115 seperate charges with thousands of pages of evidence to sift through plus City alledgedly doing everything they can to delay this as much as possible so of course it was going to take a long time for it to reach the hearing point.
Agreed. I think the court of public opinion somewhat mirrors the court of arbitration in that respect - the case is so big that it’s taking a while to work its way through.
Similar to Juve’s recent woes, City are being accused of straight up fraud, carried out over years and with every effort made to evade punishment. Juve ended up with criminal liability - these charges are no joke.
They are the biggest cheats in the history of English football.
If Man City were a person they'd be some sort of Lance Armstrong/Donald Trump Hybrid.
There's a monumental difference between 'buying the league' and cheating to the extent that they have.
I'm guessing you don't know much about the actual charges against them?
Penalties will be coming.. There is no way City will not see some type of deduction, and with the actual volume of citations, It could be huge. I 100% fully believe that is why Pep is leaving after next year. He knows that towards the later part of next season, the findings will come out and City will be charged. It will be overshadowed at first, but set up so that once he leaves, City is over as we know it. Just my 2 cents.
*Pep Guardiola has entered the chat*
How the heck have you managed to make 16 posts without being binned off.
They have 115 charges against them for a reason.
115 charges aren't made by accident.
Maybe read into it a bit more before writing such nonsense pretending to be a United fan.
All who defend City should be permanently branded with a Kappa logo.
The newbie system has failed.
115 charges is absolutley ridiculous and any club that is allowed to operate that way should be penalized on the largest scale. You cant take points from Everton (twice) and Forrest, yet ignore City's 115.
My personal favorites...
"What's the difference between having the owner directly infuse the club with a billion dollars vs the owners giving their subsidiary businesses billions who then in turn use the money to sponsor the club?"
You've hit the nail on the head, there's no real difference between the two - that's why both are against rules.
"Now they just want to buy some time to cook the books..."
Once again, 100% accurate. Quite how this squares with, "They aren't corrupt... They certainly didn't cheat" is never explained.
Truly irrefutable logic.
Expulsion from the football league with the right to reapply withheld until a change of ownership.
It’s the only punishment that matches the scale of the cheating. Relegation, fines, deductions or anything else won’t undo the damage done to the sport.
It’s the only punishment that matches the scale of the cheating. Relegation, fines, deductions or anything else won’t undo the damage done to the sport.
They need to be punished for doping. Financial or otherwise...
Something tells me Dr. Ramon Segura's most famous client will step down as manager before any sanctions hit.
Something tells me Dr. Ramon Segura's most famous client will step down as manager before any sanctions hit.
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I don't think anybody does apart from Man City and the Premier League, the rest of us are just guessing.
And had we had that, City would have skirted it too… as evidenced by how 14 of the charges are from inaccuracies in reporting player and manager salaries.
Those are absolutely breaches of UEFA FFP and Premier League PSR.
A quick Google search will find sites with a full list of the charges they are facing and what they relate to.
I lost hope when City execs got all bullish