City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

The angle around the British government making the charges go away seems unlikely given the context of them currently raising a motion in parliament to introduce an independent regulator to oversee the financial issues of the premier league, with a view to introducing greater stability. If the government genuinely try to influence the charges to allow city to escape then surely the regulator is a dead duck before they start.

The government never ceases in its ability to surprise but them supporting city and trying to make the charges go away seems highly unlikely given they have been trying to get regulatory oversight on the premier league for years
 
This lot needs sorting in the summer before league starts.. I know what I'd do, because there guilty and they know it everyone does.

I'd let them keep there hollow trophies.. but it dock them 35pts for 3 season 35pts each season, plus I'd give them same transfer ban 3 years....

This won't happen but that's what I'd do.
That would be a rubbish sanction and have almost 0 effects on them.
They should be docked between 100 and 150 points and instantly relegated. That way no matter the season they do, they're again relegated and mathematically unable to get promoted back the next year. They would also be under completely differents rules regarding their spending and all their sponsors values would be null and void. You can't sponsor a Championship or League 2 team for hundreds of millions.4 years + out of the PL would mean every player would want out or misteriously ask for a loan to Girona.
 
That would be comical to suddenly see a mass transfer to Girona and they win La Liga next season. Can imagine Barca and Real would push their league to take action as well. They can then move those players to Palermo, then to wherever.
 
The Premier League will punish City. It may or may not satisfy the other clubs and their fans.
But the real culprits are the owners. I have little faith in the FA punishing them. This time they will not be so amateurish in how they doctor the financials.
There are ways to bump up the revenue. Much harder to fix the costs. Playing with payroll expenses is stupid.
 


It really is. If people can’t see what wrong with the Pl after that, there is no hope for them.

All that emotion and two young lads having the greatest moment of their careers up until now. We lose so, so much with City in the league. So many great moments have been lost and I am so happy that my team managed to wrestle one back yesterday.
 
Found myself supporting Man United despite it knocking Chelsea into the conference league. Don't understand how anyone with any sense of morality could feel otherwise
I’ve supported Real in the cl against them. Still feel dirty because of that. But it’s the cards we’ve been dealt, I guess.
 
Only one thing truly punishes them, and that's to take away trophies. That says...all your cheating, it was all for nothing. The rest is pointless...even relegation; they are back the next year. Take away this 4 year run of theirs.
 
Also think because of expected timeline to some kind of decision here, that relegation looks to me fairly difficult to implement. Season will be in the first half, and you are going to relegate them outright? Doesnt sound very practical. A massive point deduction that condemns them in effect could be good as it messes them up for two years.
 
The question we should be asking UEFA and PL is if they really believe that City's revenues have surpassed even RM, Barca, BM and Man Utd. If not, is there anything they can do about it?
 
The question we should be asking UEFA and PL is if they really believe that City's revenues have surpassed even RM, Barca, BM and Man Utd. If not, is there anything they can do about it?
Specially back in the day when it was still too soon for plastic followers to support them. It was mind boggling some of the financing they had and it's what they're succes is built upon. Their "sponsorship" deal with Etihad for their stadium in 2011 was over twice as much as the existing record for naming rights (JP Morgan Chase for Madison Square Garden in New York).
 
The question we should be asking UEFA and PL is if they really believe that City's revenues have surpassed even RM, Barca, BM and Man Utd. If not, is there anything they can do about it?

To be fair, they did the treble last season, that's the almost the maximum possible income you can achieve from competition winnings in club football. Any team doing that would be close to, if not the, richest team from that alone. The real issue is when they were claiming commercial income from 5 or 6 yrs ago that were comparable to Real and United.
 
To be fair, they did the treble last season, that's the almost the maximum possible income you can achieve from competition winnings in club football. Any team doing that would be close to, if not the, richest team from that alone. The real issue is when they were claiming commercial income from 5 or 6 yrs ago that were comparable to Real and United.

That is not how football income works though.
 
Out of interest, how much investment have the Emiratis put into Manchester? I've heard this as another reason why some in power won't say anything but not sure if this is actually true or if it is, whether we're talking about one block of luxury apartments or widespread investment across the city?
I'm curious about this myself did you find any answers here or elsewhere? There were pictures of Jim Ratcliffe next to Sir Keir Starmer which make me wonder if there are similar promises being made in the South now.

Edit: nevermind i read some. Basically Mansour got a lot of private land in greater Manchester and very little if anything has been used to actually help the public in any way.
 
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So, UK General Election called for 4 July. Labour are currently well ahead in the opinion polls. A change of government could see a change in attitude from the new government with regard to pursuing the 115 charges against city. Keir Starmer is an Arsenal fan, so could that factor override not wanting to upset the UAE government?
It could override not wanting to piss off hordes of other fans….
 
To be fair, they did the treble last season, that's the almost the maximum possible income you can achieve from competition winnings in club football. Any team doing that would be close to, if not the, richest team from that alone. The real issue is when they were claiming commercial income from 5 or 6 yrs ago that were comparable to Real and United.
Not sure - even with that you have to factor in the prize money being very very good for most teams who get the knock outs in the CL and so well in the PL. There’s very little difference between us finishing 8th and them winning it for example. What it would be more valuable for is renegotiating sponsor values but then that doesn’t really apply to them!
 
Out of interest, how much investment have the Emiratis put into Manchester? I've heard this as another reason why some in power won't say anything but not sure if this is actually true or if it is, whether we're talking about one block of luxury apartments or widespread investment across the city?
There was an article last year about how little investment they have actually put into Manchester themselves and how the Etihad and surrounding area has been developed predominantly through council and government schemes. The exact schemes the media were up in arms about Ratcliffe using to develop the area around Old Trafford.
 
Found myself supporting Man United despite it knocking Chelsea into the conference league. Don't understand how anyone with any sense of morality could feel otherwise

I've been supporting Arsenal. And I bloody hate Arsenal.
 
This lot needs sorting in the summer before league starts.. I know what I'd do, because there guilty and they know it everyone does.

I'd let them keep there hollow trophies.. but it dock them 35pts for 3 season 35pts each season, plus I'd give them same transfer ban 3 years....

This won't happen but that's what I'd do.
The word is a four week process next spring.
 
The angle around the British government making the charges go away seems unlikely given the context of them currently raising a motion in parliament to introduce an independent regulator to oversee the financial issues of the premier league, with a view to introducing greater stability. If the government genuinely try to influence the charges to allow city to escape then surely the regulator is a dead duck before they start.

The government never ceases in its ability to surprise but them supporting city and trying to make the charges go away seems highly unlikely given they have been trying to get regulatory oversight on the premier league for years
It will be in the context of a new Labour gov. No way will they want the whiff of corruption around football …. Key constituencies there.
 
City deseve the Juventus punishment. All the Premier Leagues stripped, relegated and begin next season with points deduction to get relageted again.

Make a example of them!
 
Out of interest, how much investment have the Emiratis put into Manchester? I've heard this as another reason why some in power won't say anything but not sure if this is actually true or if it is, whether we're talking about one block of luxury apartments or widespread investment across the city?

They’re taking money out the city!
 
Specially back in the day when it was still too soon for plastic followers to support them. It was mind boggling some of the financing they had and it's what they're succes is built upon. Their "sponsorship" deal with Etihad for their stadium in 2011 was over twice as much as the existing record for naming rights (JP Morgan Chase for Madison Square Garden in New York).

feck off. etihad airways had to move quickly and pay what it took to get the deal done, the abu dhabi national oil company were sniffing around and were “prepared to do whatever it took” to get a deal over the line. in that scenario, you just have to pull the trigger and pay over the odds.
 
There was an article last year about how little investment they have actually put into Manchester themselves and how the Etihad and surrounding area has been developed predominantly through council and government schemes. The exact schemes the media were up in arms about Ratcliffe using to develop the area around Old Trafford.

Yep. Typical rich businessman/state entities taking advantage of local decision makers to get favourable deals with the lure of massive future investments, with the short to medium-term results being unfavourable for the communities the decision makers represents.
 
I've been supporting Arsenal. And I bloody hate Arsenal.

I don't 'hate' Arsenal, I don't 'hate' any other club, hate is such a nasty word I believe.
Apart from United and The Cobblers I don't follow any other clubs, but I have a dislike for any club that tries to win things by underhand means, which includes players who fall over trying to win penalties.
 
https://x.com/ConroyUtd/status/1793756887080706146

What do you guys make of this? I haven’t seen any credible sources that Michael Oliver was paid £20k to ref one match, but in regard to the rest of it it definitely is a conflict of interest at best.
The conflict of interest is definitely there and that's precise the problem with state ownership and the reason I'm dead against it. It just looks so dodgy.
 
https://x.com/ConroyUtd/status/1793756887080706146

What do you guys make of this? I haven’t seen any credible sources that Michael Oliver was paid £20k to ref one match, but in regard to the rest of it it definitely is a conflict of interest at best.

I thought it was claimed to be around £3k, roughly 2x what he makes in UK. With the added bonus of business class seats + great hotel.
 
That would be a rubbish sanction and have almost 0 effects on them.
They should be docked between 100 and 150 points and instantly relegated. That way no matter the season they do, they're again relegated and mathematically unable to get promoted back the next year. They would also be under completely differents rules regarding their spending and all their sponsors values would be null and void. You can't sponsor a Championship or League 2 team for hundreds of millions.4 years + out of the PL would mean every player would want out or misteriously ask for a loan to Girona.
You go for it.. I'd be happy with that..outcome
 
I thought it was claimed to be around £3k, roughly 2x what he makes in UK. With the added bonus of business class seats + great hotel.

It was reported by the Dailly Mail that he was paid £3000 to ref a match involving Ronaldo's team, this clip seems to be referring to the ADNOC Pro League match in Dubai on 28th September 2023 though
 


I read the thread because I'm currently bored and I'm a chronic procrastinator. The OP did a great job laying out the details (which will be the PL's case plus a few things maybe)

IF the PL can prove the contents of the original thread then yes, City are fecked and the only question is how severe their punishment will be (don't think owners can be forced to sell but expulsion from the league is not improbable)

His argument rests on 3 pillars IMO:

1. UEFA were careless with their case; the PL is not
2. CAS made mistakes in their judgement
3. There is more evidence out there against City beyond what has been seen publicly, that Der Spiegel got from the leaks

Firstly, it's premature to put carelessness beyond the PL. Not even considering external pressures (independent regulator concerns, lobbying from other clubs), what the PL is trying to prove (that City cooked the books) vs their powers and capabilities as a private body with zero subpoena powers has always come across as a big mismatch. From what we have seen with Everton and Forest and other affairs, the PL doesn't have the reputation of an organization that can close this case against an independent panel, so absolute confidence in them is premature

Regarding CAS messing up the judgement: this doesn't follow. Their judgement is that some stuff was time barred (no judgement on those) and for the stuff that wasn't time barred, there was not evidence to support UEFA's claims. That is a ruling that can't be disproven by claims CAS didn't do their job properly, or that City had a hand in selecting some of the judges. You'll need additional evidence above and beyond what UEFA provided to CAS.

Lastly, is it probable that Der Spiegel/the hacker withheld hard evidence that would have served as insurmountable evidence of City's guilt (what was submitted and wasn't time barred wasn't for CAS) to preserve for the PL? I'm skeptical. I'm also skeptical that in the face of dead to rights evidence, City's counsel would not strongly advise City to settle quickly instead of going down a path where if (most surely) found guilty, they would be slammed down the pyramid. "Waiting for the UK Government to intervene and end the case prematurely" doesn't work; that undermines public trust in the club and the PL, and has secondary effects. They're in so deep that their only hope is in the charges being publicly dismissed by the KCs (putting their reputations on the line) on the independent panel.

City's rise to where they are today couldn't have happened without external cash (inorganic if you will). Proving that before an independent panel, where what you submit will be challenged by said panel and City's (competent yet non-magician) lawyers... Regardless of what that thread says, the PL are fighting uphill on this one. It's like when you hear the prosecution's opening statement and you think, "of course they're guilty". But then cross-examination happens and then the defense rips the prosecution's case apart. Or not. Time will tell.
 
I'm erect :wenger:
He's way too optimistic. City has better lawyers than anyone and the PL doesn't have the financial muscle and political will to go through with his scenario of forced sale or expulsion from the league system.
It will end with a fine, a slap on the wrist and a private promise that they will behave from now on.
 
Im looking at their parade then I look at their commercial numbers and simply dont believe it.

Of the clubs that make €300m + Commercially this is how they stack up…

B Munich - €419m
Barcelona - €412m
Real Madrid - €402m
PSG - €400m
Man City - €399m
Man Utd - €355m

Source:https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

Im sorry but I do not believe PSG and Man City are able to attract nearly as much sponsorship etc as the 3 clubs above them. PSG especially now that Messi/Neymay/Mbappe are gone should see their commercial number drop way down.
 
Im looking at their parade then I look at their commercial numbers and simply dont believe it.

Of the clubs that make €300m + Commercially this is how they stack up…

B Munich - €419m
Barcelona - €412m
Real Madrid - €402m
PSG - €400m
Man City - €399m
Man Utd - €355m

Source:https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

Im sorry but I do not believe PSG and Man City are able to attract nearly as much sponsorship etc as the 3 clubs above them. PSG especially now that Messi/Neymay/Mbappe are gone should see their commercial number drop way down.

Why would commercial revenue not rely on on-the-field success? If your club is constantly on the TV going far in competitions, winning trophies, having world class and well-known players in the squad, it stands to reason that companies would look to partner with and pay such clubs for exposure. And those factors would be more pertinent than historical success, otherwise why is AC Milan and Ajax not on this list?

Edit: this did not apply in 2010 of course. Speaking about today.
 
Im looking at their parade then I look at their commercial numbers and simply dont believe it.

Of the clubs that make €300m + Commercially this is how they stack up…

B Munich - €419m
Barcelona - €412m
Real Madrid - €402m
PSG - €400m
Man City - €399m
Man Utd - €355m

Source:https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag.../articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

Im sorry but I do not believe PSG and Man City are able to attract nearly as much sponsorship etc as the 3 clubs above them. PSG especially now that Messi/Neymay/Mbappe are gone should see their commercial number drop way down.
All those people that were pro-Glazer because they knew how to get us more sponsorship than anyone else, where have they gone? Forget the oil clubs, I'm just looking at the top 3, we're way behind.