I just watched that Britain’s Greatest Scandal documentary for the first time & holy crap.
How the CAS bent over for them is absurd
How the CAS bent over for them is absurd
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
We still want his contributions and skills. And if this happens, just sack him. It really is that simple. CEOs shouldn't be club legends that you don't want to let go. They're employees.
They need to go to administration like Rangers everything else is "meh".
He’s leaving before they get punished.
Can you imagine the absolute shitstorm if the government overruled the PL as a favour for a cheating club owned by a foreign government.
Didn’t something similar already happen when the government pressurised the Premier League into allowing Saudi to purchase Newcastle? The public reaction to that decision seems to have been fairly positive, in general.
Not familiar with that story but on the face of it two very different situations. One is to allow ownership and the other is to allow a club to systematically cheat in the national sport.
Unprecedented points deductions and fines can be administered whilst City effectively get off scott free or very, very lightly.
Yes it could be spun that way, but you need to satisfy the public and the other clubs in the league with a just punishment. If city are seen to get away with it then other clubs will either be pissed off or will just cheat themselves and football is probably the last remaining thing the English public would get up in arms about I reckon (see the Super League).
How many billions do they invest in the UK, btw?
No they don't. That's also a rabbit hole where some want obliteration and others would be satisfied with a demotion/expulsion to the Championship. Who amongst the other clubs in the league actually want anything to happen to them is also a topic of its own, which I raised here some time ago.
How many clubs are going to stick their head above the parapet if it results in they themselves being forensically inspected? I'm not sure it's as cut and shut as we'd like to think. There's also the clubs it doesn't benefit as well as those who have done superbly via farming talent to City.
The Super League is a different matter that was almost universally condemned and represented a potential paradigm shift for the game as we know it; City getting punished to the full extent they should be or not causes no such seismic rupture, and for all the posturing and disgruntlement we, as fans have, very few of us are going anywhere whether the farce continues or not. Even down to any perceived miscarriage of justice in a lighter punishment than should be administered.
If there was any care or regard for the national game, an institution to the country wouldn't have been sold in the manner it was to unscrupulous parasites leveraging debt against the club, nor would we have all the dirty or 'immoral' money flooded into the league as any despot or crook moonwalked past the fit and proper person measures to ownership.
The romanticism to what this is other than a series of astronomical money grabs over a prolonged period of time is why, I think, we have optimistic leanings from one side and cynicism from the other. There's more care about this case because what's gone on is so blatant and in the faces of all who care to look that it cannot be swept under the rug like other indiscretions have been, but if you put it together as a body of work, well the picture it paints is clear and has been going on since mega money entered the PL.
Of course the public will have to be satisfied, our media is dominated by football talk and football fans. If people see this as unjust online spaces, talksport, papers will all be buzzing with it and whoever is in government will be feeling the heat.
I think this leans a bit too heavily on speculation. I could believe that there are accounting mistakes/backhanders to agents/nepotism etc. but anything in the same league as what city are accused of? Don't see it mate. Plus we are already seeing heavy punishments handed out to clubs for smaller violations and who are co-operating.
For me at least it was a league without relegation or true competition and undermining the national game where a club from the very bottom is linked to a club at the very top.
If they prove cheating then what 10(?) years of Premier League competition is nullable, pretty seismic if you ask me. If it is proven that city have cheated (I think it's obvious even at this stage) and there is no "just" punishment, I would stop watching and I don't think I'm a unicorn. If you had to ask football fans around the world what the English fan cares about I think they would say "fair play", the obsession with stamping out diving, hard tackles, time wasting etc. As a nation we value it, although it seems that it has been eroded a bit I still think it's there.
The failure of the fit and proper person's test is what has led to this. As I've stated before I think it's easy to be cynical and think the whole thing is corrupt but if you step back and examine the interests of those involved I think there is a good chance we see the end of this version of city. It obviously comes down to what can be proven and what is made public, evidence has already been out there for posters to look at for years which makes it obvious city are guilty of fraud.
As United fans we have been shafted ever since the gimps took control so I know it's hard to be optimistic, but for once I think the circumstances have coalesced to where there isn't really an easy way out for city, the governing bodies or the government.
As a by the by I think FFP is anti-competition and stupid. I would much rather a stringent fit and proper person's test which made sure you were actually a person and not a country.
How does he make sense when Berrada joined after the allegation period?
Yeah I don't really see the issue here. We wanted to hire him and are working on the presumption he's innocent (I'm assuming this was, at least, in some way diligenced before hiring him and we'd have put something in his contract about waiving renumeration if he's implicated etc.) but if he is punished we just find another CEO. It's not like we've signed a young Messi and there's literally no replacements should he leave.
Man City are accused of breaching 115 regulations over 14 seasons from 2009-10 onwards.
He might well have had no knowledge of any of the 115 things but he was definitely there for the vast majority of the period being investigated.
9? They refused to hand anything over beyond 2019 or something.
I'm sure you're right, I did Google it but am not going to argue!
The point really was that your new dude was at Man City for a very big chunk of the time period being investigated.
He didnt start working for MCFC until 2016 and I think the charges mainly relate to sponserships set up well before that so he should be fine.
I cant imagine the club would have appointed him if he was involved.
He started at City in 2011..
I think people continue to underestimate the fact that the Premier League is a product that generates insane amounts of money, both directly and indirectly. I don't think the value it has for the UK can be understated. Sporting integrity isn't really the most important factor here...
An important factor i feel is being overlooked, is that going into projects like this, Manchester City, Newcastle, where they also invest heavily in the city (for bargain prices), gives them a lot of leeway with local politicians, that power also stretches into the highest level. Imo, this by far outweighs any PR related to their club performing well and winning trophies, what they create is a local dependency where they hold power. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ouncil-abu-dhabi-sheikh-mansour-b2128273.html and https://theathletic.com/4932881/2023/10/06/newcastle-saudi-city-reubens/
We already know that the UK government got involved to make sure the Saudis could complete the Newcastle takeover, and we already know that the government is concerned about the outcome of the case against Manchester City, to the point where they've held meetings with the owners. It's hardly unimaginable that local politicians in Manchester are actively working to limit any punishment so that it has no real consequence.
Not sure how anyone can convince themselves that the UK government isn't heavily involved in trying to limit any potential punishments that could have a negative effect on other investments in the country. It's not as if we'll have a situation ala when China went mental against Norway for giving the Nobel peace price to a Chinese dissident, but it doesn't really take much for Abu Dhabi, or Saudi for that matter, to make changes that has negative impact on individuals in a world where it's rather easy to pay someone under the table.
Also, lets not forget that in the publics eye this isn't a clear cut case. It's easy to spin a story about how they cleared the UEFA case, so it's not as if a favourable outcome for Manchester City can't be spun in a direction where the vast majority isn't going to give a shit. There might be noise, but just as the noise surrounding the Saudi takeover of Newcastle got drowned out it's not going to last long.
For me, i reckon the outcome of the case against Manchester City is going to determine if i keep following football or not. Then again, i am one of very few that feels that way, just as i wouldn't have bothered to follow Manchester United if we'd been bought up ala Newcastle and Manchester City. The vast majority isn't going to give a feck anyway.
Sponsorships are his field of expertise, of course he had knowledge of City's sponsorship deals.
People will tie themselves in incredible knots to avoid considering the possibility that the panel won't find anything because there's nothing to find. United clearly don't think there is.
He joined CFG in 2011 but worked for CFM, he didnt start working for MCFC themselves until 2016 so will have had no involvement in the sponsorships the charges relate to.
I watched the documentary last night if if the documents they showed are genuine then there is something to find.
he clearly knew what was going on. like any c-level employee, he’s there to carry out the wishes of the board, who act on behalf of the shareholders. that doesn’t mean he was the mastermind behind all the cheating, but there’s no way he wasn’t aware of all the sponsorship dealings, and where the money was coming from. it’s his duty to know and care. if isis sponsored them, you’d expect him to have been in the chain of signing it off somewhere.
the only questions are his morals and if he should have objected and walked away.
the only questions are his morals and if he should have objected and walked away.
How would United know either way?
Agree I think he would have been aware of what was going on - would be quite funny if he became a whistleblower on it though, agent Omar
City’s charges seem to be around outright fraud though - so that is a concern for Omar because those execs who were involved during this period might be barred from working with premier league clubs for a period of time as a result of this case (If they are found guilty). Could be that those execs may get absorbed by other PL clubs if they cooperate with the PL and help them win their case.
It’s interesting how Stefan Borson (City’s former lawyer) thinks the PL won’t be able to prove the charges while Ceferin says UEFA had a good case - I suspect the PL does have a good case, they wouldn’t charge City unless they didn’t think there was a realistic chance of convicting, especially given the controversial nature of the allegations.
Due diligence on their part before recruiting someone at that level, fit and proper reviews though it's not a regulated activity so not sure how granular that would be. In any case, this topic is out in the open and I'm assuming he would have been grilled on it before being recruited. I'm hoping it went beyond
- Oi Omar by the way, involved at all in that 115 charges malarkey?
- Nah boss fam all good
- Right, you're recruited
But I feel Ineos are quite serious so I'm hoping there is a level of assurance there.
City won't release the info to the body investigating them so I seriously doubt United have somehow got the inside track on what's been going. Or that he himself would just offer up the info and his role.
More likely United, like everybody else, know there won't be any individuals held accountable. It'll be City the club punished.
Soon they will sign a new commercial partnership valued a few billion quid with an arab company named Al sharikat Al muzayafa.
@GiveItToGi...nowait
Forgive me, I was some way through a rather extensive reply and deleted it as this subject hugely comes down to what you believe in and what you expect, or wish, the outcomes to be based on that. There's a lot of idealism on one side and cynicism on the other, even down to what the fans deserve or can expect to see.
Forgive me, I was some way through a rather extensive reply and deleted it as this subject hugely comes down to what you believe in and what you expect, or wish, the outcomes to be based on that. There's a lot of idealism on one side and cynicism on the other, even down to what the fans deserve or can expect to see.
Oh ffs, some people on this site need to take their tin foil hats off.
Blogger paid by country, famous for paying celebrities to promote their country, to promote their country and help the transaction of a purchase designed to promote their country.
It's hardly fecking JFK getting whacked by Elvis, is it?
Do you think, if it’s already confirmed, no individuals will be punished that it’s a way to help the PL case against the club? If there’s no threat of individual sanctions it may be a lot easier to get the information needed to nail City.
Yeah possibly. Could be part of the deal and negotiations which will no doubt be going on.
These things usually begin with an agreement there has to be a punishment and so then let's negotiatie a punishment we can all agree on that ticks the boxes.
Unfortunately at these levels the perpetrator gets a say in what their punishment is. I'd be absolutely amazed if any individuals get called out.
They’d just do it quietly and off the record. Couple quiet conversations about making it go away and job done. It’s literally happening constantly!
No worries and yes, I agree with you.
Juve's recent case for 'false accounting' saw most of the main culprits (Agnelli, Paratici, Nedved among others) get banned from working in football varying 8-30 months. Paratici didn't even work at Juventus anymore but had to step down from his role at Spurs because of the ban.
If City's charges are proven and the club gets hit with some serious punishments, I don't see how any of the individuals high enough in the food chain could walk away with no personal charges against them.