City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

There should be at the very least imo a transfer ban, expulsion from the league and these fake ‘sponsors’ cancelled by the league. Also all titles taken away from them. Otherwise what they’ve done works. The whole point of this was to try and win as much as they could, so if they don’t lose that it’s been a success for them.

The only issues is which league they go in and the poor clubs that have to face a PL level squad in that division but maybe some players leave if that happens anyway.
 
They have made a mockery of the PL as a competition and made an absolute joke of football as we know it for over a decade. Truth is, anything less than relegation to the very bottom of the football pyramid is getting off very lightly.
 
People thinking this will end with City being stripped of their titles and relegated to the championship are going to have a rough couple days when the verdict is announced and it’s a little fine and a small points reduction, they have made a mockery of the Premier League and FFP and they will once more when nothing happens with any of those 115 charges.
 
Solius said:
As someone said before, that'd be like giving a cartel boss a fine and saying he can't deal drugs for a year. They already have the empire so why does this matter? There needs to be an incentive for another club not to do this, because any club aspiring to be like them will look at that and think that's worth it for the 'success' it brings.
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No normally operated clubs can do anything similar anyway, they’ll hardly open pandoras box by handing out what will at best be a mild punishment. The Premier League is a product that brings other investments to the country. Fairness of the competition and whatnot is rather irrelevant in that sense and it’s not going to be risked.

There were heavy political involvement to have the Saudi takeover of Newcastle approved, simply because the more important stakes were UK - Saudi relations.

Just as we know there’s heavy political involvement to make sure that Manchester City’s potential punishment is meaningless. Imagine the thinly veiled threats of rather large investments going somewhere else, and how local politicians will react to something like that. People underestimate the position they’re in.
 
Zen86 said:
Even that is small punishment. The damage has already been done. They should be kicked out of the football league full stop until their ownership is changed, and stripped of any titles.
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Agreed. Their owners have proved they will go to any means to cheat the system, and then won’t co-operative when investigated. There is no way they should be allowed to own a football club in the UK after what’s happened.
 
I quite like the idea of a 10 points deduction per charge they are convicted of equally shared out for past seasons and future seasons at a rate of 25 points per season.

So if they get 50 charges to stick, then that is 500 points, 10 years back and 10 years forward.

A one hit relegation and fine will be meaningless.
 
They’ll feel their position is vindicated. The experiment worked. They went from nothing to everything. (Forget some of the best ever PL players and one of the best managers ever)

Transfer ban - won’t work, they’ll load up the window before they know it’s coming.
Fine - Pointless.
Points deduction resulting in demotion is where I think we end up.
 
It'll end up in relegation. Anything else will be very problematic for the premier league. They could survive a 50 points deduction ffs, and that means what? Just a year without CL football. I don't even think a 1 year relegation will be that catastrophic.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I quite like the idea of a 10 points deduction per charge they are convicted of equally shared out for past seasons and future seasons at a rate of 25 points per season.

So if they get 50 charges to stick, then that is 500 points, 10 years back and 10 years forward.

A one hit relegation and fine will be meaningless.
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Oh yes.
Keep talking dirty to me.
:lol:
 
Will the penalties be applied for this season, meaning they are out of the title race? It's a given that at the minimum, they will have some points docked, right?
 
Mshafeek said:
Will the penalties be applied for this season, meaning they are out of the title race? It's a given that at the minimum, they will have some points docked, right?
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No way to know without the date. The hearings will also probably go on for weeks.
 
Zen86 said:
Even that is small punishment. The damage has already been done. They should be kicked out of the football league full stop until their ownership is changed, and stripped of any titles.
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I agree that will be too small. Minimumly they should be relegated out of the English leagues to the National Leagues. Let them climb back up legitimately again if they can comply with the FFP rules. Even if they can manage to retain their squad and promote every year, it will take them at least another 5 years to be back to the top flight football.
This can form a real deterrence to others that may want to do the same unfair practices in future.
 
Someone said:
It'll end up in relegation. Anything else will be very problematic for the premier league. They could survive a 50 points deduction ffs, and that means what? Just a year without CL football. I don't even think a 1 year relegation will be that catastrophic.
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No. Send them 2 levels down and title strip. That would show them.

Of course nothing of consequence will happen. Too much politics and money involved here
 
RoyH1 said:
No. Send them 2 levels down and title strip. That would show them.

Of course nothing of consequence will happen. Too much politics and money involved here
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Is this just hope for the best and expect the worst kind of thinking?

Unless they are found not guilty (and they have already been found guilty and got off on a technicality) I don't see how they get away with a slap on the wrist. I get it, Abu Dhabi are rich and our government want their money but they aren't that fecking rich and powerful. The Premier League managed to thrive before they came along with their oil money and I expect it would thrive after, and as for their "influence" over the government, there are plenty of other rich parties who also own football clubs that would need to be fecked off in order to allow city to get away with it.

Look at it this way, if city had the leverage to pervert the process why are they not co-operating with the investigation? Surely if you have some kind of back room deal with the powers that be you would be happy to go along with the process because you know it's a foregone conclusion.

The only reason they are not co-operating is delay, delay, delay to buy the legal team time to figure out some way these charges don't stick.
 
Schmeichel=God said:
Clear cut
Give them the Juventus treatment.
League 2.
Feck off into the dark crevices for at least 3 years.
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Need Mansour/ADUG banned from being owners of an English football club too and compelled to sell. That's the crucial part.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
Rephrased: the evidence was there, UEFA sanctioned them but it was reversed because evidence has a sell by date?
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It made sense in the first place, don't worry. Everyone understood you. They did get off on technicalities, the wording from UEFA clearly indicated they believed they were guilty.
 
They must have considered relegation a possibility so I wonder if City have refused to put in relegation clauses into players' contracts.

If it were to happen one would expect an exodus of players but I could imagine City trying to hold onto some.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
Rephrased: the evidence was there, UEFA sanctioned them but it was reversed because evidence has a sell by date?
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1. I wouldn't take much stock in UEFA, they've proven to be incompetent in general

2. CAS threw out anything time barred, but that doesn't mean the time barred material was rock solid proof of City wrong doing (it could be, it could not be). All we know is that time barred stuff got thrown out (which meant City didn't have to bother defending it, seeing they knew UEFA's rules better than UEFA, ṣee point 1 above) and City successfully defended the non-time barred stuff before CAS.
 
I would be really surprised if anything bad happens due to the political implications. Same with Newcastle and Saudi. PL has backed itself into a corner as has the government.
 
Schmeichel=God said:
Clear cut
Give them the Juventus treatment.
League 2.
Feck off into the dark crevices for at least 3 years.
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The only way to deal with these cheats. Newcastle and Chelsea next if they can’t play by the rules.

If you aren’t a big club that can generate your own money then please stay in your lane
 
in a utopia City should be punished with titles stripped and sent to Championship and a market window ban.

In the world we live PL will probably do something to say : "see we punished them!!"
I agree with who said they will give them 30-40points deduction for this season, a huge fine to split between clubs (like 100-200m) and maybe a transfer window ban
 
I’d be satisfied with a relegation from the football league, the stripping of titles and a massive fine if it was just the cheating.

But the fact they have refused to cooperate, and have plowed money into legal obfuscation which in turn, has forced the league to spend huge sums on fighting them - money which could have been far better spent elsewhere in the game, means their owners by definition are not fit and proper.

They need to be removed from the football pyramid until such a time as there has been a change of ownership. They have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they cannot be trusted and anything else is a cop out.
 
diarm said:
They need to be removed from the football pyramid until such a time as there has been a change of ownership. They have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they cannot be trusted and anything else is a cop out.
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I was listening to the radio and they were talking about the Reading case and in regards to the EFL they can disqualify owners but can't force them to sell clubs. Not sure if that's the same for the PL or not.
 
IF they do get expelled (expulled?) from the PL, am I right in saying that the PL and EFL are two seperate entities? Therefore it will be up to the EFL to decide a. whether to accept man city and b. which league to place them, i.e the championship, league one etc?
 
adexkola said:
1. I wouldn't take much stock in UEFA, they've proven to be incompetent in general

2. CAS threw out anything time barred, but that doesn't mean the time barred material was rock solid proof of City wrong doing (it could be, it could not be). All we know is that time barred stuff got thrown out (which meant City didn't have to bother defending it, seeing they knew UEFA's rules better than UEFA, ṣee point 1 above) and City successfully defended the non-time barred stuff before CAS.
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ADUG had funded the payments, and that: “The management of [MCFC] was well aware that the payments … made by [a third party on behalf of ADUG] were made as equity funding, not as payments for the sponsor on account of genuine sponsorship liabilities.”
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What about The senior European lawyers in the CFCB’s adjudicatory chamber? Are they also incompetent? Can we just disregard their judgement too? I really want to carry on believing that everyone else is incompetent and the bad guys always win.
 
SilentWitness said:
I was listening to the radio and they were talking about the Reading case and in regards to the EFL they can disqualify owners but can't force them to sell clubs. Not sure if that's the same for the PL or not.
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They don’t have to sell. They just won’t be allowed play in the same competitions as everyone else until they do.
 
diarm said:
I’d be satisfied with a relegation from the football league, the stripping of titles and a massive fine if it was just the cheating.

But the fact they have refused to cooperate, and have plowed money into legal obfuscation which in turn, has forced the league to spend huge sums on fighting them - money which could have been far better spent elsewhere in the game, means their owners by definition are not fit and proper.

They need to be removed from the football pyramid until such a time as there has been a change of ownership. They have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they cannot be trusted and anything else is a cop out.
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Absolutely agree. If only there was a part of me believing there’s a chance this happens.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
What about The senior European lawyers in the CFCB’s adjudicatory chamber? Are they also incompetent? Can we just disregard their judgement too? I really want to carry on believing that everyone else is incompetent and the bad guys always win.
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That's what I'm saying. We didn't have a chance to hear City's defense for that. And didn't need to. Because it was time barred. They may have a reasonable defense for that.

But hopefully the PL investigation (where there is no time barred concept) sheds light on it.
 
There’s something I’ve always wondered about the UEFA case.

In real life, if you were up on a charge that had a statute of limitations, surely you couldn’t just throw money and lawyers at delaying proceedings until enough time had passed for it to be thrown out?

I assume that so long as the charges had been brought before the statute had passed, you would be prosecuted as normal?

Am I wrong in thinking that and if not, why wasn’t the same logic applied in City’s case?
 
adexkola said:
That's what I'm saying. We didn't have a chance to hear City's defense for that. And didn't need to. Because it was time barred. They may have a reasonable defense for that.

But hopefully the PL investigation (where there is no time barred concept) sheds light on it.
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Yes I understand where you are coming from but I just do not see it. I think the feeling that a lot of posters have about city getting away with it due to some nebulous corruption just ignores the incentives each organisation has, the way parties have acted so far and previous evidence.

The PL obviously want to prosecute (is that the right word for this situation?) otherwise the charges would not have been brought, city are obviously scrambling because they cannot appeal to CAS and are delaying as much as possible and the government are already threatening to bring in an independent regulator. I just don't see how this lines up to city "getting away with it", these charges are unprecedented and the scale of them is crazy. You can't just slap 115 charges down then let them go on their merry way, there would be uproar, the PL would get shafted for being incompetent and get even tighter regulations.

Too much smoke and the easiest way out for most parties is to string city up.
 
Castia said:
They’ll get relegated 100%

Just depends how many tiers.
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I believe the Prem and the other leagues are almost separate, in that the prem has no jurisdiction on things such as this.

They can simply kick them out the prem - so they go down one league. This is because of how the prem came to be, it was basically a separate league so the current top tier clubs in div 1 at the time branched off and created the premier league they signed the Founder Members Agreement, establishing the basic principles for the setting up of the Premier League.

"The competition was founded as the FA Premier League on 20 February 1992 following the decision of First Division (top-tier league from 1888 until 1992) clubs to break away from the English Football League. However, teams may still be relegated to and promoted from the EFL Championship. "
 
diarm said:
There’s something I’ve always wondered about the UEFA case.

In real life, if you were up on a charge that had a statute of limitations, surely you couldn’t just throw money and lawyers at delaying proceedings until enough time had passed for it to be thrown out?

I assume that so long as the charges had been brought before the statute had passed, you would be prosecuted as normal?

Am I wrong in thinking that and if not, why wasn’t the same logic applied in City’s case?
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I believe the statute passed prior to charges as far as I'm aware due to city hiding the evidence as the committed the wrongdoing. Then hackers got the info who passed on to German papers which forced uefa to begin investigating. Then city tried to drag it out by failing to Co operate etc. But basically they were in clear from get go or shortly after with statute
 
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