It's pretty normal to not treat a lawsuit the same as a non-lawsuit, because situations involving lawsuits tend to be different to situations not involving lawsuits.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
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It's pretty normal to not treat a lawsuit the same as a non-lawsuit, because situations involving lawsuits tend to be different to situations not involving lawsuits.
The clubs have. Man City have been charged. Let's be honest the announcement of the charges came out of the blue. Most people where saying that their acquittal via CAS against UEFA meant the league wouldn't do it. That they came showed there is appetite within the league to sanction them.
The issue with City is that they have fully lawyered up, so the lack of on their situation is most likely to do with that. No-one wants to say anything to:
1 ) not provide them with any leverage
2) avoid being tangled up with lawsuits that would come their way if they do.
It's hard to see how City wouldn't be hit with a punishment of biblical proportions if Everton are deducted 12 points for something that is peanuts in comparison. But we all know they will weasel their way out of this one as well
You can admire the way they play football - and still hate them for cheating to get there.
Claiming Liverpool v City was the greatest rivalry in EPL history is a bit over the top
I don’t understand how this works at all but I’d guess the difference between City and Everton is that City can afford to buy their way out of this, whereas Everton can’t. So basically city get away with cheating by cheating so much more that it won’t even matter in the end that they’ve cheated.
Did you admire Lance Armstrong as much when it became apparent that he had cheated to win all is Tour de France titles? I assume you didn’t because when you cheat to win it means you didn’t think you had the ability to win fairly, therefore it doesn’t count.
I don’t think the lance armstrong comparison is apt as all athletes are clearly doping with PEDs. He just got found out.
I don’t think many clubs are doping financially like city are apart from a few other obvious ones
No, you can't.
If the charges don't materialise, the honest clubs should form a new league. Let the oil state clubs have their own thing. I'd love that.
Wasn't their CAS review undertaken by an ex-City person?!
I will hazard a guess that he'll see that tweet from Carra and do a very neutral comment so not to seem biased soon if he hasn't
I mean like... Man city were fined for missing ACTUAL doping tests too. Their players regularly fly to Barcelona when they're "injured". If you cheat in one way who's to say they don't cheat in others? That's part of why I err on the "absolutely hammer them" side of the law here because they can only be charged with the things they get caught doing, who knows what else they've gotten up to (particularly now they're trading players around the "city group" football clubs like they are Pokémon cards)
I question if the “honest clubs” actually care enough to pursue it. If you asked them whether they’d rather:
1. the Premier League continued to be the cash cow it currently is and City are allowed to get away with everything they have done.
2. Or City face serious sanctions, are removed from the Premier League, 7 of the last 12 titles are voided and have no winners attached, same for 3 of the last 12 FA Cup and 6 of the last 9 League Cups are null and void. The Premier League product is damaged and you look to Serie A to see how that could go.
I wouldn’t be surprised if most clubs are just happy to be competing in the league and everyone getting paid.
We're absolutely getting expelled if guilty which I think we will be when all is said and done. Then it's at the discretion of the football league from what I've read whether they accept City and where they place us if they do.
I'd be very surprised if we get a point deduction and not expulsion. If we get a points deduction it'll likely be enough to relegate us to the championship and honestly, if we're guilty we deserve harsher (by we, not the support or players but the owners, the top brass and everyone involved.) What I do want to see if guilty is ownership removed and every board member and person in a position of power banned for life.
For me, I think we'll be found guilty and expelled personally. Where that leads I don't know but do the crime do the time.
I'd be very surprised if we get a point deduction and not expulsion. If we get a points deduction it'll likely be enough to relegate us to the championship and honestly, if we're guilty we deserve harsher (by we, not the support or players but the owners, the top brass and everyone involved.) What I do want to see if guilty is ownership removed and every board member and person in a position of power banned for life.
For me, I think we'll be found guilty and expelled personally. Where that leads I don't know but do the crime do the time.
Commercially the league would be more even/better competition and therefore more entertaining/exciting if City wasnt here. I doubt it would damage the league that much really. It’s too far ahead of the other european league to really dump down on pair with serie A, bundesliga or La Liga imo.
Id be more afraid of Saudi Arabia attracting all big players from now on.
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Are you okay mate? You’re supposed to do mind gymnastics and dismiss it all as bollocks.
The problem many will have is that even if these charges are proven, then the hard work is already done. You’ve spent the money, got the players and the coach, won the trophies and have the means to do so again. And a points deduction or even relegation won’t change that. I can’t see them stripping titles but whatever sanction they decide on if found guilty would need to undo some of that.
« If » ? Are you kidding ?
You were guilty with UEFA too and got away with a technicality.
I love how cautious you are when every man and his dog, you included, know you are.
Harsh!
They are the only city fan I’ve ever heard say anything that resembles an admission that they’ve cheated and should/would accept any punishment thrown at them, whatever that might be.
His message reads as if he has accepted that they are guilty
Fair play to you mate.
Interested to know why you feel the need to snipe at his post?
Would have thought most think it’s refreshingly honest - or maybe I’ve got the wrong end of the stick?
It’s important to not that caveat in the Everton case “final determination will be made by independent commission”
And that’s assuming it doesn’t also go to the court of arbitration for sport.
The FA, in particular, gets overturned all the time by them because they don’t seem to have a grasp of even their own rules.
So I would be surprised if Evertons confidence that they were within rules wasn’t upheld ultimately.
The difference with City, as I emphasized nearly a year ago: we are not talking about “rule breaches” the same way we are with other clubs. I mean we are, but the bigger issue is that they committed fraud and broke real, non sporting laws in the process of avoiding those few penalties.
That takes it to s different level for me.
“The cover up was worse than the crime” is a common expression in the States. It applies here if the info leaking out has merit.
And that’s assuming it doesn’t also go to the court of arbitration for sport.
The FA, in particular, gets overturned all the time by them because they don’t seem to have a grasp of even their own rules.
So I would be surprised if Evertons confidence that they were within rules wasn’t upheld ultimately.
The difference with City, as I emphasized nearly a year ago: we are not talking about “rule breaches” the same way we are with other clubs. I mean we are, but the bigger issue is that they committed fraud and broke real, non sporting laws in the process of avoiding those few penalties.
That takes it to s different level for me.
“The cover up was worse than the crime” is a common expression in the States. It applies here if the info leaking out has merit.
Yeah. I can't understand these people who trot out, they still have to do it on the pitch.
If they hadn't cheated, Pep wouldn't be their manager and they wouldn't have any of the players they have on the pitch.
Perhaps you can't. But maybe don't answer for others?
This. In fact some of Armstrongs closest competitors in his Tour victories were later outed themselves, some by that Icarus thing, right?
I don’t think there was a “clean” cyclist at the top level in the world personally.
City is in their own class in terms of manipulation.
There should also be some bribery investigations. Infinite Athlete had to through what amounted to an FBI level background check (10 years of financial records, statements as to why they would have motivation to be investors, family background checks on their executives) … and City has sponsors with no records and fake addresses.
Agreed. I will never admire the result of brazen cheating on such a large and depressing scale, nor should anyone be admiring or celebrating it.
1 breach = 12 pts.
115 breaches = 115 * 12 pts?
How about 115 point deduction per year for the next 12 years?
So they start on -1380 points which means about a decade of relegations. About fair for the decade plus of cheating.
City cannot appeal to CAS it is forbidden in the PL's charter.
I am personally of the opinion that City will suffer a massive hit - whether that means relegation or not is another matter.
The reason I think this is because of the way the PL is set up, which I think a lot of people do not understand on here. It isn't set up like a business, which has to abide by business relegations and laws (in terms of governance) and it is very much set up differently to the Associations - The FA, UEFA, FIFA etc, where they are essentially a regulator for other bodies - namely the clubs. A good example of this is how FFP is allowed to function. FFP should under all business laws be prohibited however, football operates outside of usual business so can implement such a thing.
The best way of describing the PL is like a fabulously wealthy golf club, in which every member has an equal say/share in its governance and changes can only be made if 14 of them vote the same way. They do outsource the adjudication of any accusations, for fairness - but those adjudicators have to be agreed upon by the members.
This is where City are in a lot of trouble.
Firstly, they do not have any legal recourse to go to if anything goes against them - they cannot go to CAS (as the rules of the PL forbid this) and they cannot appeal to legal courts around there exclusions/punishment if they have broken the rules of the golf club - just as someone can't go to court over being kick out of their golf clubs if they have signed up to the club with a contract saying they cannot do so if they're found to have broken its rules (which City and every other PL club have done.)
Secondly, the recommended punishment to the adjudicators will largely be decided by the clubs owing to the share spilt. Remember City here will need at least 6 other clubs to vote with them to avoid the stiffer penalties, however this will be hard for them to do. First, we have all the teams with aspirations for the top 6. Utd, Chelsea, Dippers, Arsenal, Spuds, Newcastle, Villa, Brighton and West Ham are never going to vote with them, as a harsh punishment will benefit them directly as it will open up an additionally CL/EL space for them. That is 9 clubs out. Then you have the most likely relegation threatened teams. Luton, Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd and Burnley. They'll all vote for harsh punishments as a relegated City means only two of them go down. That is 13 teams out. That then leaves, Fulham, Everton, Brentford, Wolves, Palace and Forest for them to try and work with. How many of that lot are going to work with them? I doubt many as they'll likely be fearing a downturn in form or a crack at the European spots. So, the PL is going to recommend a harsh punishment.
Third, the adjudicators only got signed off by having 14/20 clubs agreeing to them. Unless City have already bribed everyone, than that isn't likely. I say this as people need to remember the PL did not need to come out and charge City, they could've easily left it alone after they got off on the technicality with CAS. That they did not tells us that the consensus is that City need to be punished. I mean, why would the PL/clubs go through with doing so unless they're all into the extortion game and what to milk City's owners?
The fly in the obtiment here is that City have lawyered up and are dragging their heels. Going over every single charge and looking for an out - either in the terms of the PL's charter or some legal means - there are laws on membership for instance. Whist, it is more than likely that they have placed a number of injunctions on the media to protect the brand - let's not forget the sportswashing aspect.
I know if it was up to fans the owners and Pep's heads would be on spikes outside Manchester Town Hall as soon as the charges dropped, but this was always going to be a long haul job owing to City's legal team.
However, people need to think about the wider picture, which is that the PL could've easily have avoided this all if they weren't serious, that the PL's rules give City very little room to wriggle out in an appeals court and that the other clubs will benefit by punishing City - whilst they largely get to decide on the punishment.
What a tit!Great post. I appreciate your optimism. Hope you are right.
Greatest? Maybe not. Too much kissing between Klopp/Pep, not enough bile and hatred and pizza
Best? It has a fair argument. The City Liverpool matches when both teams were on top of their games were excellent spectacles of football. The only other rivalry that delivered in terms of high quality football was United v Arsenal.
I prefer an hypocrite then someone only half hypocrite.Bit of a strange reaction to his post
I understand he’s a City fan. But going on like with 115 charges they can be innocent when we know how they are is kind of weird.
If you agree that is not right, just say it.
Well put sir! I sincerely hope that you are right.
A massive punishment would be the right thing for the integrity of the sport, and I don’t think that’s me being biased, it’s just wrong what they have done.
Do you know who owns Everton, he can also afford to pay himself out of it...
What I think will happen is a generous plea deal that will likely see City stripped of some titles and a transfer ban. At the end of the day, stripping titles is meaningless and doesn’t harm them. Even if they aren’t champions on paper, the memories remain for anyone that watched and it’s not like the players will have to turn in their medals.