Relegation in Division 3 and losing all titles (without those titles going to runner up). That is what i expect from first decision. After appeal......i don't know.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
Why won’t they go to the runner up?
I don’t think there is any mechanism to relegate them below Championship. Premier League have a remit for Premier League and that’s that. It would require the Football League to hand out a relegation punishment and they won’t have the authority to do that because the offences didn’t take place within their jurisdiction.
It will need to be a really creative punishment for it to satisfy fans.
- Owners being declared unfit and forced to sell.
- substantial EPL points fine carrying over into future seasons.
- considerable monetary fine being held against their PSR calculations meaning zero budget for next 5 years and forced to sell most of squad
- Compensation to all clubs impacted by their actions and fines calculated against PSR
- Previous titles stripped and banned from promoting themselves as winners or basing sponsorship calculations on the status they bring.
Essentially make it virtually impossible for them to function as a football club for the foreseeable future.
I believe if they are expelled from the Premier League they would have to apply to join the EFL, the EFL.dont have to accept them but if they do they would have to start from League 2.
Fair play quoting your own post, just for the hell of it presumably.
That’s if they are expelled outright. They can be relegated via the usual channels with a big enough points fine.
I might be completely wrong but I think Juve were stripped of a few of their titles sometime in the past 20 years and they didn't go to the 2nd place team. I might be wrong and they maybe did go to the second place team.
I'm not sure how I feel about it if they do award it to the second place teams. I just find it funny that Jose would be desperate to claim it though
So basically, in February we'll find out that City have some (on paper) punishments which will be nowhere near what they deserve but there will be various things that can't be proven etc. Everyone will be annoyed but ultimately accept the (for example) 20 point deduction.
Then City will appeal, and another year or so will go by, where people will get used to the 20 point deduction, and then in the end, it'll be reduced to 10 on appeal. By this time people have given up and it'll go without too much comment and they've got away with it.
Then City will appeal, and another year or so will go by, where people will get used to the 20 point deduction, and then in the end, it'll be reduced to 10 on appeal. By this time people have given up and it'll go without too much comment and they've got away with it.
They will get more than 20 points for failure to cooperate alone.
14 years! Prolific.
The correct punishment is to force the owners out of the club. Otherwise, they'll just do it again, and do a better job of hiding it.
They wont just get a points deduction if they are found guilty, they are facing 130 charges so this is far too serious for just a point deduction
Last edited:
City's damage to the league can't even be measured by stripping them of their titles. City, along with Chelsea before them, completely distorted the league and football in general.
Let's not forget that City bought loads of premier league players from rivals to build up their own team and weakening their rivals.
Adebayor
Sagna
Clichy
John Stones
Gareth Barry
Sterling
Milner
Walker
Grealish
Delph
Lescott
Shay Given
Nasri
Mahrez
Kolo Toure
I must be forgetting some. What happens to those players and teams? Does John Stones go to United instead? Are Spurs a better team having kept Walker? Arsenal with half of our team?
That isn't even mentioning where the likes of Aguero, Silva, Tevez, Yaya Toure or now Harland would have ended up. Or what transfer fees would be like without City inflating them or wages.
Where would Guardiola have gone after Bayern? To United?
City's actions deliberately affected relegation for premier league sides. Forget about awarding the title to second place. Does a team who was relegated in say 2016 who City thumped home and away have a right to feel aggrieved? If they were playing the City of Roque Santa Cruz and Craig Bellamy they may have gotten a result, and even that team was the start of the Sheikh era. What about teams who missed out on Europe? I think Everton's development was directly curtailed by the rise of City.
If City are found guilty, there isn't a single team who has played in the league that wouldn't be affected in some way, even down to their league finish and the money they received.
I also wonder what effect Juventus' scandal had on the popularity of Serie A, both from a fan perspective and in the eyes of sponsors. This may just be bias, but I don't think Italian football ever fully recovered from that moment. What's the point in watching sports if it's not legitimate? Luckily for the EPL, I think its established enough as a product in the fans' eyes, English is fairly ubiquitous around the world as a language (Yes this may seem funny, but I think the fact that English and American culture/language is exported around the world, helps with the popularity of its media exports) and the league has a lot of international stars so I can't see it losing ground like Serie A did.
TL;DR - The Premier League screwed over its clubs, fans and league by allowing this in the first place and allowing it to continue so long.
Let's not forget that City bought loads of premier league players from rivals to build up their own team and weakening their rivals.
Adebayor
Sagna
Clichy
John Stones
Gareth Barry
Sterling
Milner
Walker
Grealish
Delph
Lescott
Shay Given
Nasri
Mahrez
Kolo Toure
I must be forgetting some. What happens to those players and teams? Does John Stones go to United instead? Are Spurs a better team having kept Walker? Arsenal with half of our team?
That isn't even mentioning where the likes of Aguero, Silva, Tevez, Yaya Toure or now Harland would have ended up. Or what transfer fees would be like without City inflating them or wages.
Where would Guardiola have gone after Bayern? To United?
City's actions deliberately affected relegation for premier league sides. Forget about awarding the title to second place. Does a team who was relegated in say 2016 who City thumped home and away have a right to feel aggrieved? If they were playing the City of Roque Santa Cruz and Craig Bellamy they may have gotten a result, and even that team was the start of the Sheikh era. What about teams who missed out on Europe? I think Everton's development was directly curtailed by the rise of City.
If City are found guilty, there isn't a single team who has played in the league that wouldn't be affected in some way, even down to their league finish and the money they received.
I also wonder what effect Juventus' scandal had on the popularity of Serie A, both from a fan perspective and in the eyes of sponsors. This may just be bias, but I don't think Italian football ever fully recovered from that moment. What's the point in watching sports if it's not legitimate? Luckily for the EPL, I think its established enough as a product in the fans' eyes, English is fairly ubiquitous around the world as a language (Yes this may seem funny, but I think the fact that English and American culture/language is exported around the world, helps with the popularity of its media exports) and the league has a lot of international stars so I can't see it losing ground like Serie A did.
TL;DR - The Premier League screwed over its clubs, fans and league by allowing this in the first place and allowing it to continue so long.
I would be stunned if anything substantial happened.
You just know they'll get away with it.
You just know they'll get away with it.
Before Everton and Forrest got deductions I was saying the same thing but they’ve set a precedent now
They’re going to get fecked big time. Just depends if it’s straight up relegation or a massive points deduction.
I don't see the point in a one off points deduction. It'll stop them winning the league for one season and they'll be back like nothing happened the following year.
The punishment has got to be more severe than that otherwise it's pointless.
14 years eh? A relegation for each year sounds about right then.
No but it’s only a few accounting discrepancies. And the rules themselves were evil. City are the good guys here.
Thats what I was thinking. They lack motivation now knowing that they will be leaving the club or playing at the Championship next season regardless.
So, it's not 115, it's 130 now over the period of 14 years! How can this be allowed to happen for so long?
1) There wasn't the evidence until that hacker released the info.
2) UEFA had a pop at them first.
3) PL tried to make the case as watertight as possible before going after them.
Or - they're trying to play the sympathy card! Look at us - we're not really overpowering monsters. We are just humble footballers trying to play the game.
Some folks on here can't help but be negative even about this, United have scarred you to think negatively. City have 115 charges over 14 years. This isn't over a single season or 2 it's over 13 plus. There's no way they are getting away with anything. We've never had anything close to this in this leage so you using previous prescedents is useless. They'll receive record and severe punishments for this, that's certain
Because it is not one on one competition. League would be automatically not regular. That team who cheated maybe made more damage to 3rd team than 4th. For example; they took 6 points in games with 3rd and only one point in games against second. So third team can demand that all games against City should be scrapped.
Then you have prize money, European spots (5th teams which missed CL are now 4th) , relegation spots (what to do with 18th team).........huge questions to be resolved which in reality can't be resolved anymore.
If you give title to 2nd then all clubs should go one spot up on the table. Huge mess.
It is not fair solution but far easiest way is to just take away titles from them and give it to nobody.
"We accept that you won title but as punishment we are taking that away from you". Same as it was done with Lance Armstrong. He lost titles but nobody won them.
Dropping them to lower divisions will help them be their true old self little City.
Years of watching the cheats win everything in sight and have everything fall perfectly in their favour while United are shite will do that to you, unfortunately.
But in cycling they only did this with Armstrong, all the other rides that lost titles because of doping went to the second rider.
I understand what you say but it feels also strange to not give it to the second and leave all those years open.
Anyone know if City lost the case against PL, is there any other avenue for them eg. bring to other higher court or something within UK or Europe to fight the case?
Well, I can't see how they won the failing to cooperate charges, so they at least will be charged on some of them.
The rest, no one knows.
I just fail to see how there can be a case that spans 14 years and 130 charges and there not be significant punishments as an outcome.
If Everton can get 10 points reduction for 1 measly charge, then they cannot get anything else than relegation, if they don`t then the panel have been payed off by $ity.
Legitimately, there’s no way out of it. But these are politicians and football’s ruling bodies we’re talking about here, and a state with a lot of money.
Deny them a chance of promotion to the Premier League for each year that they've refused to cooperate. It's been 7 so far IIRC, so they'll need to win promotion to the Premier League 8 times before they can get any promotion. If they fail to win promotion on any season, that doesn't change the counter. And once in the Championship, they'll need to conform to the Championship's version of FFP, which IIRC is stricter than the Premier League's.
No. It is said that they can't go anywhere with this. Rule is that after verdict they can appeal and then 3 member jury will make final, final verdict.
1 member appointed by City, another agreed to by City, plus one other?
I guess it’s going to come down to each individual charge, which ones stick and how serious each one is.
But there’s so many of them, even if half of them stick bare minimum its got to be relegation…and surely the premier league would not have gone into this without making their cases water tight…
They’re going to wriggle out of this aren’t they.
But there’s so many of them, even if half of them stick bare minimum its got to be relegation…and surely the premier league would not have gone into this without making their cases water tight…
They’re going to wriggle out of this aren’t they.
Define significant.
Enough to make sure no one will try this again.