Rojo and Shaw £45m
Zouma and Azpilicueta £15m
Blind and Herrera £45m
Matic and Fabregas £50m
Di Maria and Falcao £100m
Hazard and Costa £60m
Fellaini and Mata £70m
Willian and Oscar £50m
But your club lives in a complete unreality with no rivals and complete sway over the league. That means you dictate and manipulate the market in ways no English club can do.£30m would be the 2nd biggest transfer ever at Bayern, slightly below our record transfer and we obviously overpaid in that one as well (Martinez for €40m was insane). If that's not a crazy price for a good but far from great back-up striker than I'm completely lost. I'd be furious about such a deal at my club, it's a waste of money, especially if you have an ageing squad that needs rebuilding in so many positions. It's a huge part of the available transfer funds and it's spent on a player who won't improve the team.
Two players Spurs signed last summer who I can't remember the name of £60 million
Nonsense. All the players we signed were available to every English club as well. Most of the German players were actually quite expensive like Gomez or Neuer. We made many great deals like Thiago, Bernat. Or paid for quality like Martinez and Benatia when it was necessary to improve the first team. We didn't let Real Madrid rob us when they wanted to get rid of Robben like they robbed Arsenal and United for Özil and Di Maria. We look for good squad players on the cheap, like Shaqiri for example or promote youth players instead of buying decent back-ups for horrendous amounts of money. We rarely get nervous or let other clubs hold us ransom because we panic.But your club lives in a complete unreality with no rivals and complete sway over the league. That means you dictate and manipulate the market in ways no English club can do.
£30m in your market is exorbitant and only goes on the truly stellar talents, that's not so for the PL.
This is the whole point I think.better job with scouting, planning transfers and negotiating deals.
I was under the impression he was already counted, if not then yeah should fetch that much at least.Read that they have to sell for 14m to make up FFP, they'll easily manage that, Negredo alone will cover it in the summer, can't remember if his clause is 20 or 25m.
They won't get into trouble with FFP just because of this deal. If they sell Negredo for 20m they'll be fine, but it doesn't change the fact that they could have used the money way better or found a smart longterm plan for the striker situation in the summer and saved money to improve other positions.What I am wondering is, how this fits in with FFP (if at all) or whether it will be offset by sales. Because they were flying pretty close to the wind already with their summer purchases IIRC.
Worst comes to worst, they ditch Dzeko, he'll surely land 15-20m too.I was under the impression he was already counted, if not then yeah should fetch that much at least.
Disagree on both counts, the only reason de sciglio might be seen as a lesser talent is due to him playing for milan and not being an offensive fullback like rodriguez otherwise he is upthere with the two of them.
100% agree with that. They've messed up with Negredo, who started off OK but then for whatever reason dropped off and had to go back to Spain. That put them on the back foot. Then Jovetic was injured constantly and Aguero as well. Now they are in panic mode.They won't get into trouble with FFP just because of this deal. If they sell Negredo for 20m they'll be fine, but it doesn't change the fact that they could have used the money way better or found a smart longterm plan for the striker situation in the summer and saved money to improve other positions.
It's simply an expensive panic buy in the winter, nothing else. I don't really mind that in itself, it's just mind-boggling when many people call it a 'fair' price. That's insane.
100% agree with that. They've messed up with Negredo, who started off OK but then for whatever reason dropped off and had to go back to Spain. That put them on the back foot. Then Jovetic was injured constantly and Aguero as well. Now they are in panic mode.
Bony is a good finisher and will score loads for them, but at the expense of their team. He might not fit in when everyone is back fit again next season.
Rojo and Shaw £45m
Zouma and Azpilicueta £15m
Blind and Herrera £45m
Matic and Fabregas £50m
Di Maria and Falcao £100m
Hazard and Costa £60m
Fellaini and Mata £70m
Willian and Oscar £50m
Still £10m down the pan, if they'd had scouted properly as Balu says then maybe they don't buy Negredo in the first place (although I understand if he was a Pellegrini pick). They also wouldn't be playing catch up now either.
I was under the impression he was already counted, if not then yeah should fetch that much at least.
. We didn't let Real Madrid rob us when they wanted to get rid of Robben like they robbed Arsenal and United for Özil and Di Maria.
Wasnt it the same with madrid and di maria though? We were the only team in for him and madrid needed to sell yet we paid far more than arsenal. The others you quoted (rodriguez,bale,etc) were important players for the side not getting pushed out due to a new player ala di maria.
You are right about herrera in retrospect, compared to those prices it does look a bit fair.
Although its not fair to call luis a backup fullback, he was the best fullback in la liga and only went for 16m. I cant remember a single fullback that was as expensive and unproven as shaw. Even Dani Alves at his peak was cheaper for barca buying him from sevilla. Rojo I still think was expensive given he is below mangala in terms of profile,etc.
We didn't let Real Madrid rob us when they wanted to get rid of Robben like they robbed Arsenal and United for Özil and Di Maria.
I think you've misread my post a bit as I'm talking about intra league transfers and the premium all top English clubs must pay to prise players from those clubs. Ourselves, City, Chelsea get fleeced constantly on any signing we make from weaker clubs in our division because we aren't a unilateral league with an overseer as Bayern is in Germany. I have no issue or qualms with how you conduct your business in the international markets, but that's not what I was posting about.Nonsense. All the players we signed were available to every English club as well. Most of the German players were actually quite expensive like Gomez or Neuer. We made many great deals like Thiago, Bernat. Or paid for quality like Martinez and Benatia when it was necessary to improve the first team. We didn't let Real Madrid rob us when they wanted to get rid of Robben like they robbed Arsenal and United for Özil and Di Maria. We look for good squad players on the cheap, like Shaqiri for example or promote youth players instead of buying decent back-ups for horrendous amounts of money. We rarely get nervous or let other clubs hold us ransom because we panic.
This was niether here nor there for me in my intiial post, but as you've made the point, I will respond and say that with your utter dominance in your home league, you get to hone and nurture players in a way PL title chasers cannot. If you had a big 3 (4) who could consistently take you to the wire, whose players you couldn't pick and choose to take from at will, you'd see a lot of that nurturing fall by the wayside, too.We signed Boateng from a Premier League club for €13.5m and turned him into a worldclass defender while City spent a ridiculous amount of money on centerbacks since and failed to find a quality partner for Kompany. Things like that happen because we're doing a brilliant job, not because we have some godgiven advantage that makes it easier for us.
You've jumped the gun and created a strawman here. Unless you know City's transfer plans for the next two windows, how can you possibly project like that? If Bony brings their wage bill down, is the success they want him to be and affords them the chance to seek other forwards in the summer with their backup to Aguero secured, does that make the fee a joke still?There is a lot of value in the market. I understand if English clubs overpay for English players, that sucks but is somewhat necessary to keep homegrown players in the squad. Spending big to improve the first team is also necessary sometimes, it's even worth to overpay if it's the only way to push the team forward. It's silly with someone like Bony though and a reason why English clubs don't use their ridiculous financial advantage in recent years and turn it into European success. But yeah, let's make up some stupid excuses instead when other teams simply do a way better job with scouting, planning transfers and negotiating deals.
But Real obviously wanted to sell. I'd actually argue that they had to sell to finance their ridiculous buys. They just did a brilliant job in the negotiations. We were desperate when we bought Robben, but still held out until we got a fair deal out of it. Yeah, maybe Real learned from their bad negotiations in 2009, but Arsenal and United offered them an easy way out as well, one that they didn't get in 2009 from Inter and Bayern.You really think that you could have done the same today? I am sure you wouldn't as Real just wouldn't sell (they kept the same price for Ozil the whole last summer, and we even reduced the price this a bit for di Maria, but not to much, as they wouldn't sell otherwise).
You have mentioned Martinez and there you could see what happens if the club doesn't want to sell.
Obviously Robben was nowhere near as good at Madrid as he was at Bayern, but that's utter nonsense. He was still one of Madrid's best attackers and a regular starter, while Nani was utter shit for 2 years and United pay his wages at a foreign club now because no one wants him. Despite Di Maria's great performances, Real wanted to get rid of him, that's the simple truth. And United failed to take advantage of it in the negotiations for the deal and therefore overpaid.Robben at Madrid was closer to the situation with Nani this Summer, rather than Di Maria.
As jojojo said before (I think), Real are a fairly unique club. It wasn't like they had to sell Di Maria, merely they felt they would if they got the right amount. They wouldn't have given a toss about keeping him if they didn't get that amount. Also, our situation was quite unique, clubs know we're extremely wealthy, we can't offer CL football, and we were directly competing with PSG who can offer those things.Obviously Robben was nowhere near as good at Madrid as he was at Bayern, but that's utter nonsense. He was still one of Madrid's best attackers and a regular starter, while Nani was utter shit for 2 years and United pay his wages at a foreign club now because no one wants him. Despite Di Maria's great performances, Real wanted to get rid of him, that's the simple truth. And United failed to take advantage of it in the negotiations for the deal and therefore overpaid.
So don't buy Bony but look for better value outside of the Premier League, it's really that simple. It's a global market after all, or at least a European one. Your whole post makes no sense, when we talk about a player from the Ivory Coast. I'd understand it if you came up with the whole advantage in the league stuff regarding German players for us in comparison to English players for United/City/Chelsea. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for foreign players though, you don't have to fill a quota regarding them. You just need to look for quality all over the world and get the best out of the talents after buying them.I think you've misread my post a bit as I'm talking about intra league transfers and the premium all top English clubs must pay to prise players from those clubs. Ourselves, City, Chelsea get fleeced constantly on any signing we make from weaker clubs in our division because we aren't a unilateral league with an overseer as Bayern is in Germany. I have no issue or qualms with how you conduct your business in the international markets, but that's not what I was posting about.
We signed Boateng after we finished 3rd in the league, finished 2nd and reached the CL final with him as a regular starter in his first season. If you believe that the club had no pressure in that season after a horrendous year and with the CL final held in Munich, you're so far off reality, I don't even know where to start. There was no longterm developing in easy games and giving him time. He performed from the start on a very good level and improved further until today.This was niether here nor there for me in my intiial post, but as you've made the point, I will respond and say that with your utter dominance in your home league, you get to hone and nurture players in a way PL title chasers cannot. If you had a big 3 (4) who could consistently take you to the wire, whose players you couldn't pick and choose to take from at will, you'd see a lot of that nurturing fall by the wayside, too.
I don't think you can look at how things are done in the PL with two financially doped teams turning natural order on its head with how you can afford to do things on and off the pitch at Bayern in the BL.
We, as a club, used to take players and work on them for as long as it took to optimise their level, but when Chelsea and City came along, that practice slowly fell by the wayside. Your Boatengs and the like would do the same under similar circumstance, I think.
But Real obviously wanted to sell. I'd actually argue that they had to sell to finance their ridiculous buys. They just did a brilliant job in the negotiations. We were desperate when we bought Robben, but still held out until we got a fair deal out of it. Yeah, maybe Real learned from their bad negotiations in 2009, but Arsenal and United offered them an easy way out as well, one that they didn't get in 2009 from Inter and Bayern.
And like I said, we obviously overpaid for Martinez. Though we also made him agree to significantly lower wages than what was agreed on before to make up for it and fair play to him, he honoured the deal with us even when City tried to hijack it and offered a lot more money to him.
I wrote that I understand it if clubs overpay for quality that goes straight into the first team and lifts the team to a higher level. So while I still believe that Real robbed United in the Di Maria deal, it could simply be a necessary evil and turn out to be a great decision, after all he's a special player. The same was true for Martinez, who had an incredible impact on our team and was a truely important player in our treble win in his first season after all.
Well yeah, I agree with that. Real exploited United's situation and made you overpay for a player they wanted to sell. The decisions at United in the past years put the club in a position where that could happen, so obviously United made mistakes in terms of scouting and planning transfers. Nothing wrong with calling it how it is.As jojojo said before (I think), Real are a fairly unique club. It wasn't like they had to sell Di Maria, merely they felt they would if they got the right amount. They wouldn't have given a toss about keeping him if they didn't get that amount. Also, our situation was quite unique, clubs know we're extremely wealthy, we can't offer CL football, and we were directly competing with PSG who can offer those things.
I'm not arguing that we didn't overpay, but we had no choice really, given the circumstances. When we purchased Di Maria he was regarded as a top 5/10 player coming into his peak and I think in the current market you will always pay completely through the roof for a player like that. Their fee increases exponentially in comparison to someone a tier below.
"Still £10m down the pan"
On a player who's three years younger, stronger and scoring more.
Falcao's already had £5m in wages off United, which will have reached about £13m by the end of the season.
"Playing catch up".
They and Chelsea have 10 more goals than any other team in the league.
There one major weakness was a top goalscorer who gets injured too much and they've just bought one of the best 5 or 6 goal scorers in the Premier League to be their number 2 striker.
So don't buy Bony but look for better value outside of the Premier League, it's really that simple. It's a global market after all, or at least a European one. Your whole post makes no sense, when we talk about a player from the Ivory Coast. I'd understand it if you came up with the whole advantage in the league stuff regarding German players for us in comparison to English players for United/City/Chelsea. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for foreign players though, you don't have to fill a quota regarding them. You just need to look for quality all over the world and get the best out of the talents after buying them.
I agree with all of that. I actually wrote most of it myself in the previous posts.I know what you mean, but we did lower the di Maria deal and he was just few months before named MVP of the CL final. I do think that he was overpaid but I don't think that we had much choice to be honest.
The reports say, that PSG and City asked di Maria to wait (and the clubs have confirmed contact the player), so they can come up with money (just balance the books) so United also had to press a bit as Real had other teams interested. Plus, I think we are paying in stages, which just increases the price, but it's easier for the club as there is more cash left.
Imagine if someone came to Real and said wait, we will offer you what you ask, just need more time. What would Bayern's choices be then? They would have probably paid as much as Real had asked (we can assume that as we have seen it in the Martinez and Goetze deal, if they want the player, they pay at the end as much as necessary).
I do agree with you that the English overpay, but in lot of situations you can't really blame them as they have to much competition and of course sometime they just do bad scouting. I also have the feeling that you do bring the best German talent to Bayern, while the English have bigger problems with that. United wanted Bale, Walcott, Ramsey, Arsenal wanted Smalling and Jones, Liverpool wanted Jones (I am just talking about few players), City and United wanted Rodwell (I know what happened to him, but I am just talking about interest at the begging) so even there you have to pay more and the clubs choose to go to different clubs.
And let's be honest, Germany has a lot more talented players then the England and Bayern has great scouting in Germany, so it's obviously easier to find cheaper (less competition) and better (larger pool of talented players) players there.
Also, I don't think that you have overpaid for Martinez as he is a brilliant player. OK, maybe he was worth 30-35mil and not 40mil, but in my opinion top clubs can't always look for value. For them it's better to pay 40mil for a player who is worth 32-33mil, then to pay 16mil who is worth 20mil, because the former will bring them much better results even if they paid a bit more.
Obviously Robben was nowhere near as good at Madrid as he was at Bayern, but that's utter nonsense. He was still one of Madrid's best attackers and a regular starter, while Nani was utter shit for 2 years and United pay his wages at a foreign club now because no one wants him. Despite Di Maria's great performances, Real wanted to get rid of him, that's the simple truth. And United failed to take advantage of it in the negotiations for the deal and therefore overpaid.
Well yeah, I agree with that. Real exploited United's situation and made you overpay for a player they wanted to sell. The decisions at United in the past years put the club in a position where that could happen, so obviously United made mistakes in terms of scouting and planning transfers. Nothing wrong with calling it how it is.
