Chido Obi Martin

Grande said:
Isn’t Kone 18 and Obi 16? I would perhaps expect to see Obi start at u18 just to dampen expectations and let him get to know some of his age group as well, and then fluctuate a bit between u21/u18 depending on how it goes?

He has been playing with 16 and 17 year olds at international level, not scoring a goal a game there, so I don’t see the inevitability of him spending some time there still. Maybe he’ll be playing in the FA Youth Cup as well?
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He might spend sometime with u-18s but seeing as he obliterated opposition at the level last season with Arsenal, I see us wanting to challenge him at a higher level with u-21s. I could be wrong but I see him spending most of his time with the u-21s and then shuffle in and out of the u-18s depending on injuries.
 
saik said:
He might spend sometime with u-18s but seeing as he obliterated opposition at the level last season with Arsenal, I see us wanting to challenge him at a higher level with u-21s. I could be wrong but I see him spending most of his time with the u-21s and then shuffle in and out of the u-18s depending on injuries.
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Do players like him who are just wildly physically further ahead than the rest of their age group ever wind up in a situation where they're too good for u18 but u21 is a bit much? Intuitively it feels like it would be a thing.
 
DOTA said:
Do players like him who are just wildly physically further ahead than the rest of their age group ever wind up in a situation where they're too good for u18 but u21 is a bit much? Intuitively it feels like it would be a thing.
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I can't think of examples right now, but it certainly happens. Also, the jump to senior football is huge. Wheatley for example was very comfortable at u-18s but struggled massively against L2 opposition with the u-21s couple of days ago.

It's all a part of their development and it's good that they are challenged at higher levels. Cant risk young players becoming complacent just because they are too good for the youth teams. We will get a real idea of Chido's potential when he starts playing for the u-21s week in week out.
 
croadyman said:
Does anyone in this thread think he has the capability to make a matchday squad this season
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Given Zirkzee and Hjolund haven’t exactly set the world alight, I think he could very well be our starting no9 from next season if he fulfils his early potential, it’s not a high bar he has to meet.
 
These are the signings we need, not £200m worth of attackers, that are only a couple of years ahead in their progression. Huge gambles.

At least with our new structure, the jump into the first team will be drastically less than someone coming from an entirely different league with different pressures.

Get all the talented kids in, spend the Zirzkees, Antony and Hojlunds money on established players; so we have a decent mix, and blood the youngsters around them with much less risk.
 
DOTA said:
Do players like him who are just wildly physically further ahead than the rest of their age group ever wind up in a situation where they're too good for u18 but u21 is a bit much? Intuitively it feels like it would be a thing.
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I dont think theres much difference physically between the age groups in most cases. And natural growth and getting used to the new challenge will see players who are physically ahead at 18 get physically ahead in the 21s within a reasonable amount of time.

The only time that wont be the case is when they are playing against the overage players that are allowed to play. Perhaps its an overage player who is very physical and has the tricks of a veteran to be able to nullify them in a way they havent experienced. But unless its like a fullback vs a young winger, or a CB against a young striker they arent usually going to go head to head all match. And... From what I've seen of overage players playing next to the youngsters, they are usually one of the dodgiest players on the pitch performance wise and maybe their real value is in communication, talking and half time team talks etc.

The big culture shock will usually come when they go on loan, or play in the first team. Some will go on loan to a lower league team where you would think they'll have the quality to do really well and for example someone who has lots of end product at u18s and u23s struggles to set up and score goals. That can then lead to them not having a lot of confidence and not looking such a great prospect. Not to mention if they go to the championship, or play in the first team where it would be more understandable that a young player isnt able to decide games too often.

For me personally I always just go back to Sir Alex. He said you need to give young players a chance because sometimes they'll surprise you. If its a surprise it means you werent actually convinced that they were going to do the job. Sir Alex would gamble and give them the chance to show something he hadnt seen yet and we obviously saw it paid off for him.
 
redNATION said:
Given Zirkzee and Hjolund haven’t exactly set the world alight, I think he could very well be our starting no9 from next season if he fulfils his early potential, it’s not a high bar he has to meet.
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It will be at the age of 17-18.

You can fully expect to see Hojlund improve on last season and with enough gametime get more than his previous 10 league goals
 
How long before Lusale, Kone and him appear on the squad in FIFA? I need some motivation to play with the current squad proving so underwhelming.
 
lysglimt said:
I mean the class of 92 will never be repeated - I will go so far as to say it's impossible to get that in todays football.
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It's not impossible at all, in my opinion. Barcelona currently have Yamal, Bernal, Cubarsí, Casado, Gavi, Balde, and Fermín López in their first team, and who knows how many more talents of this caliber at youth level, still unknown to the masses. And surely you cannot forget Unicef Barca.
 
FriedClams said:
Lamine yamal is currently one of the best players in the world. if they are good enough, they are old enough.
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Yamal is a prodigious talent like Rooney whereas I see this guy being phased into academy for a while
 
FriedClams said:
Lamine yamal is currently one of the best players in the world. if they are good enough, they are old enough.
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If they are the worlds best u21 player at 16, now 17, they are probably Lamine Jamal. They used to be Messi.

saik said:
He might spend sometime with u-18s but seeing as he obliterated opposition at the level last season with Arsenal, I see us wanting to challenge him at a higher level with u-21s. I could be wrong but I see him spending most of his time with the u-21s and then shuffle in and out of the u-18s depending on injuries.
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saik said:
I can't think of examples right now, but it certainly happens. Also, the jump to senior football is huge. Wheatley for example was very comfortable at u-18s but struggled massively against L2 opposition with the u-21s couple of days ago.

It's all a part of their development and it's good that they are challenged at higher levels. Cant risk young players becoming complacent just because they are too good for the youth teams. We will get a real idea of Chido's potential when he starts playing for the u-21s week in week out.
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I see fromyour answer and other posts that we are not thinking so differently. I know many coaches think it important for many young players to have a social connection with their own age group at a club, it gives the a mooring and a baseline from which to challenge and rise, and to be able to relate to in eventual bad patches, injuries etc. Top football can easily be lonely and overwhelming stuff for young kids, not all, but many. Of course , Cox, Fletcher/Van Nistelrooij and Ten Hag will have their impression of the lad already, and may deem it differently based on how he appears to be developping. At this club, we have had Morrison, Pogba and Greenwood providing ample evidence that super talents also have a personl development that’s easily as important as the athletic one, in one way or another. That’s to name a few glaring ones.

I hope they are thorough and careful with the lad, and if he is up for it, I don’t fear for his route to the first team squad at all.
 
I believe he was promised things so that needs to be considered. eg fast track to the 1st squad. Why would he come here to play 18's etc. I reckon 1st bench after Christmas if he hits form after this late start.
 
Demaw said:
I believe he was promised things so that needs to be considered. eg fast track to the 1st squad. Why would he come here to play 18's etc. I reckon 1st bench after Christmas if he hits form after this late start.
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Scoring goals at the u18 does not automatically translate to higher levels. He needs to adapt to the U21s first. Some first team training and take on board the areas that he needs to improve on. RvN being there should help with teaching him the art of being a top level striker.
 
Doesn't look good enough for the 1st team in the highlight snippets I've seen. Physicality gets you pretty far at youth level.
 
Hope his growth spurt doesn’t affect him negatively because he still has a fair bit of growing to do.
 
greater wall said:
Scoring goals at the u18 does not automatically translate to higher levels. He needs to adapt to the U21s first. Some first team training and take on board the areas that he needs to improve on. RvN being there should help with teaching him the art of being a top level striker.
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We will see if RVN can improve Rasmus, Marcus and Zirkzee in the first team this season as scoring goals against decent opposition seems to be a real issue at the moment.
Do former great strikers make for great coaches of strikers or even former great midfielders for current midfielders?
I cannot say I have seen much evidence of it.
 
croadyman said:
What makes you say that?
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His finishing isn't there yet. Quite a few of his goals would be saved by a PL goalkeeper. General attacking awareness and movement also isn't good enough but he gets away with it thanks to his physicality. It's overpowered at youth level and if you've experienced it you should understand my point. For reference, compare him to 16/17 year old Wayne Rooney.

But he's obviously still very young and could become an amazing player.
 
Pronewbie said:
His finishing isn't there yet. Quite a few of his goals would be saved by a PL goalkeeper. General attacking awareness and movement also isn't good enough but he gets away with it thanks to his physicality. It's overpowered at youth level and if you've experienced it you should understand my point. For reference, compare him to 16/17 year old Wayne Rooney.

But he's obviously still very young and could become an amazing player.
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Decent assessment. Have to be a realist and say he will go into u21 and compete with Wheatley, who looks ahead of him physically, mentally, and technically just now for me, but as you say it doesn’t mean he won’t in 2-3 years be smashing it in PL, but right now looks a bit baby giraffe growing into his body. Let’s back off and see if he rips up u21 first
 
stealthy said:
Decent assessment. Have to be a realist and say he will go into u21 and compete with Wheatley, who looks ahead of him physically, mentally, and technically just now for me, but as you say it doesn’t mean he won’t in 2-3 years be smashing it in PL, but right now looks a bit baby giraffe growing into his body. Let’s back off and see if he rips up u21 first
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Redcafe doesn’t back off. He will be first pick at United and England by the time he’s out of nappies

Yes I am being sarcastic to those who expect amass in the first team at 16, Kone to be a squad player before he’s kicked a ball, and for Martin to take over from Hojland this season
 
Pronewbie said:
His finishing isn't there yet. Quite a few of his goals would be saved by a PL goalkeeper. General attacking awareness and movement also isn't good enough but he gets away with it thanks to his physicality. It's overpowered at youth level and if you've experienced it you should understand my point. For reference, compare him to 16/17 year old Wayne Rooney.

But he's obviously still very young and could become an amazing player.
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That was pretty much the write-up on him coming from Arsenal. You guys nabbed one of our best youngsters but unlike with Nwaneri and perhaps MLS (Skelley), we were unsure how well he would progress. A lot of what made him stand out Is because he is a beast at 16. He needs to probably play u21 for a year and then a loan move in my opinion. Still, he is definitely PL quality, I am just not sure how high his ceiling is. We have to do a better job protecting our youngsters from getting snapped up. This was a tough one to swallow.
 
FreakyJim said:
help us Chido Obi Martin, you're our only hope
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Be careful with this. One mispronunciation and you’ll summon a 65 year old Obafemi Martins to play for us. Having said that, he’d probably be a decent shout up top for us this year in fairness.
 
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