Would people here prefer Fabregas over Kroos?
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Haha I was thinking the same!
At the moment it just feels so unlikely we'll get either, and both represent such a massive improvement in our midfield options, I really don't mind. Would be delighted with either, but if pushed to choose, I'd take Fabregas.
I'll have to take your word for that -- I'm simply too young to make an accurate assessment of how he played in centre mid for Arsenal.
By the sounds of it though, it's been six years since he's regularly played as a proper centre midfielder; you think he's still at the same level in that position? I think he's gotten slower with age. You also have to consider that at Arsenal he was paired with a strong, combative midfielder in, as you mention, Vieira and Gilberto Silva -- he's not going to get that here (unless you're of the belief that Fellaini will come good, or we sign someone else too). I also agree with goin4glory that we already have a player with a quite similar skillset in Juan Mata. I'm not doubting Fabregas' quality, I just think that with our current set of midfielders (AMs included), he's not an ideal match.
Kroos all day for me. I could spontaneously combust if he signs for us. I haven't watched much of Fabregas at Barca but he seemed mightily inconsistent to me in the past. Kroos is a machine.
I'll ask the obvious question, Barca84.....
EDIT: Ignore me. I just realised that you're referring to the United game v Barca in 84. Calling them 'Barca' threw me off.
I think the username would refer to when Utd beat Barca.
Yeah, I'm slow, but I get there eventually.
Cesc never really played with that powerful a centre midfield partner at Arsenal but he still shone, I'd expect no less now. While Viera was around Fabregas was a fringe player. You can only really judge Fabregas on his midfield partnerships with Gilberto, Flamini, and Song. All three are all very good holding players but great holding players...? You're acting like Cesc was a shrinking violet who needed protection. Fabregas was never really paired with a proverbial (as Wenger's bellyaching against Fletcher after the 2009/10 home game proved) but, by and large, his performances against the best England had to offer proved he didn't need to be.
Cesc and Mata are totally different players. Cesc only became an attacking midfielder as a consequence of two things: Adebayor chasing the £ and Wilshere's emergence. Adebayor leaving Arsenal led to Van Persie becoming their number 9 and as Wilshere was coming through it gave Wenger the option of playing Cesc in the hole. Cesc never played in that role before then. Contrast this with Mata who has always been an attacking midfielder/inside forward going back to his Valencia days. Their skill sets are totally different. If we'd have had Cesc away at Southampton a few weeks ago we would never have overrun in the middle of the park, like we were with Kagawa and Mata. The fact is our attacking midfielders are all 10s, they're not 8s. There's no balance in our midfield when we try to pretend otherwise either.
It may be, as you yourself admit, that you simply don't remember how good Cesc is playing as a proper centre midfielder.
Cesc may not excel playing the patient tiki-taka style of Barcelona but in a faster, more direct team what he brings to the party would be obvious. I'd take Cesc over Kroos every day of the week.
I'd prefer Kroos. Cesc has dropped off a lot at Barcelona. Maybe that is due to a variety of reasons that could be fixed but I'm not so sure. There isn't a huge difference in my mind about who I want but I'd take Kroos.
Kroos is also 3 years the younger
Pete summed it up best, Scarlet Johansson or Mila Kunis? With the emergence of Ramsey I don't think Arsenal need to splurge 40 million on Fabregas or Kroos, City could be a rival if Toure leaves. Would love to see either of them at us next season, a gigantic step up in quality and well worth the money. No more Andersons' or Fellainis' please.
Fabregas over Kroos. Everyday. Each day. Forever.
I'm not saying Kroos isn't a good player. But people are really over-rating him in comparison to Cesc who has almost a decade of top level experience in the Premier League on top of being the better player. If you ask Bayern fans I'm pretty certain they'll concur with my assessment Kroos may not be suited to be 2 man midfielder in the fastest, most physical league in the world unless we sign an absolute mental work-horse defensive midfielder beside him. Also I've heard some Bayern fans call him a shrinking violet. In that despite his great consistent passing he's not the most incisive player in the world and often lacks cojones to take the game by the scruff of the neck lack of a better word. Correct me if I'm wrong pls. @Blackwidow @Balu
That said it would be really surprising Cesc will join United even if we offer huge money. He seems to be an Arseman through and through on top of having numerous bust-ups with our players in the past. Also didn't he chuck a pizza at someone after the 2004 United - Arsenal game when we ended their unbeaten streak ?
I'm not saying Kroos isn't a good player. But people are really over-rating him in comparison to Cesc who has almost a decade of top level experience in the Premier League on top of being the better player. If you ask Bayern fans I'm pretty certain they'll concur with my assessment Kroos may not be suited to be 2 man midfielder in the fastest, most physical league in the world unless we sign an absolute mental work-horse defensive midfielder beside him. Also I've heard some Bayern fans call him a shrinking violet. In that despite his great consistent passing he's not the most incisive player in the world and often lacks cojones to take the game by the scruff of the neck lack of a better word. Correct me if I'm wrong pls. @Blackwidow @Balu
That said it would be really surprising Cesc will join United even if we offer huge money. He seems to be an Arseman through and through on top of having numerous bust-ups with our players in the past. Also didn't he chuck a pizza at someone after the 2004 United - Arsenal game when we ended their unbeaten streak ?
I dont think it would be a case of either one or the other, I think well be looking to get both in.
But I agree, I think when he goes, it will be back to Arsenal, and I think that would be a good move for him.
-------Carvalho*--Fabregas---------
--------------Mata-----------------
----------Carvalho-Carrick----------
-------------Fabregas--------------
I think both of these could work, but we do need to bring in a second midfielder. Carrick shouldn't really be used in anything other than a 3 man midfield imo. See Pirlo.
*Not to derail the thread, but has this gone cold?
--------------Mata-----------------
----------Carvalho-Carrick----------
-------------Fabregas--------------
I think both of these could work, but we do need to bring in a second midfielder. Carrick shouldn't really be used in anything other than a 3 man midfield imo. See Pirlo.
*Not to derail the thread, but has this gone cold?
Gilberto, Song, and Flamini are/were all more aggressive and combative than anything we have in our midfield at the moment, though (bar Fellaini). So, yeah, I do think he needs someone to do the dirty work for him.
I don't think they're totally different players at all. They have similar strengths (technically strong, excellent passers, great vision, and both good finishers) and similar weaknesses (fairly slow and weak, and not very good dribblers). These last few years they've also occupied quite similar positions: Fabregas mainly as an AM or false 9 for Barca while Mata has mostly played as an AM for Chelsea (and off the right wing; but he seeks very central positions from there -- wouldn't say he's an inside forward like Pedro, Alexis, or Ronaldo). You're, of course, right that they were brought up in quite different positions. But totally different players today? I disagree.
Anyway, my main concerns are that he's, relatively, similar to two of our other midfield options: Carrick and Mata -- I can't imagine the three of them working well together. Also, the fact that he hasn't really played centre midfield in six years. I'd rather we splashed the cash on someone else.
Hard to know but the links have definitely died down since Moyes left and the LvG links started. Papers seem to be reporting that he's more interested in someone like Strootman for that position.
Absolutely. The guy is magic. I'll be terribly pissed off if he ends up elsewhere and we ultimately fail in our pursuit of Kroos.
Ask him when his brother Luke is gonna be rocking up.
Ah, thanks. Makes sense now you mention it.
ITS ON
My Muppet level is now over 9000
Why do we have to choose?
Anyone want to take a £10 bet that he is still at Barcelona in 3 seasons time?
I think it is just way to hard to us fans to process us signing more than one top class CM in a transfer window, given what has gone on over the last few years, throw Vidal into the mix too. It just seems crazy, however when you actually think about it logically, we need to be making a statement this window and CM is definitely the area where that statement needs to be made. When you look at it like that, then its possible we may get 2 top class CMs in. I don't see why we would object to doing so, its not like we have much quality there.
Yeah and I bet you would've also said that Frodo wouldn't come back from Mordor, right?
There's not much hope but while there is some BELIEVE.
Not the best comparison. Scarlett any day
It's clear he is for sale, but I doubt he'll be coming to us. Would be nice and lets hope RvP, Mata and DDG can twist his ear, but I just can't see it at all.
Christ, could you imagine Fabregas, Mata and RVP in the same side ?
I'd agree with this, and despite what i'm about to say still do. But i also remember saying the exact same thing with RvP and Mata. Stranger things have happened. It looks as if he's available, so who knows?
There was nothing in it, Enrique just said (not in reply to a question about Cesc) that they'll be making some tough decisions today and swept aside any questions about any player, not just Cesc.
Not saying he's not available, I actually think he is, but Lucho's press conference wouldn't suggest anything.
The thing about it to me is that I can bet if he leaves Barca he'll be coming to the EPL. In that case we better move heaven and earth to get him, as I would hate to see him at City/Chelsea.
As for him going to Arsenal, well I can see it happening, however I can also see him thinking he wants to go to a team with a more realistic chance of winning the league/UCL in coming years, where for Arsenal there is that lingering doubt at present (not that there isn't with us also)
Then he proceeds to big up Messi when asked, saying he's delighted to have the best player in the world?
I think it's down to Van Gaal and Eddy convincing him we want him the most, we did go for him last summer after all. If they can sell him what we're trying to do, and offer him more than Arsenal, then maybe.
Well that's a given isn't it? I've only read his answers, not the questions, but I'd assume the Cesc questions were regarding whether he'll leave unlike the Messi questions. Interesting comments on Xavi too though, saying they'll wait and see what happens once they sit down and talk.
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