Not if you compare them in the PL a couple of years back - no contest.
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I highlighted that we need pace/power/penetration because we ALREADY have plenty of the technical passers in our team but zero with those attributes. Having a great midfield is about finding the right balance and Modric has been so good because he has players like Ronaldo/Bale/Di Maria in front of him whereas with RVP/Mata/Rooney we have zero pace and our wide players are so bad they're barely worth mentioning. Put Fabregas in the Madrid lineup and I'm sure he'd do well when he's got players who compliment his abilities but he'd face the same problems at this current United side as he does at Barca.
Yeah I agree with you that you don't need pace/power to be a great midfielder, I just don't think Modric was the best example. I agree that he's not being used well too, but I can understand why Barcelona are reluctant to build around him when they have better players.
Yeah, no doubt. Modric has went up a level though to be fair to him. Cesc hasn't, but I'm sure he'd recover his best form if he moved.
I'm undecided on Fabregas. I wouldn't want to see us spend crazy money to get him because he might not be the solution.
Where does this certainty come from exactly?
Whats there to be undecided on a premiership proven, world class midfielder? And its not crazy money because Barca are willing to sell him according to reports.Has he got one to sell then?
Hmm point noted mate. But then here's the thing though. Getting Vidal is unlikely because Real/ Barcelona will undoubtedly target him and can offer mental money on Top of CL football. Pogba by the looks of it will stay in Juventus and even if he leaves, PSG makes much sense (they have shown great interest in the past, he's a Parisian and they can offer good salaries inspite of FFP because they could sell maybe Cavani/ Lavezzi). Gundogan no one's sure if he'll ever recover. So as you can see, the options are few and far between and in these circumstances Cesc would be a great addition. In an ideal world I would incline towards Vidal/ Pogba/ Gundogan (2012 versions) but right now it seems far-fetched don't you think ? BTW I personally would love Kovacic over anyone else. He has pace/ penetration/ deftness of foot and creativity. But we haven't been linked with him at all. So whether one likes it or not, Cesc might be the best possible option. I'd even take him ahead of Kroos.
PS : Don't take what I post to heart and chillax. I truly didn't mean to patronize you. Sometimes in the spur of the moment things get heated because we're debating our POV and there can be some miscommunication. Maybe sometimes I'm not making an effort to understand your point or I don't articulate my point well enough. I you felt offended by something I posted or I gave a wrong impression, I apologize. Ok ?
The contract is no more likely to say that than saying Arsenal can match any accepted bid or any more legally legitimate.
We definitely need a creative midfielder.
I saw a stat on Skysports News a couple of days showing Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini had ZERO assists between them throughout the whole of last season!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw a stat on Skysports News a couple of days showing Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini had ZERO assists between them throughout the whole of last season!!!!!!!!!!!
It's certain 'if' the contract says this. It's probable that it does say this or something like it, since I as have explained it doesn't make commercial sense otherwise.
That would be untrue though.
Bollox, they can't irrevocably accept a bid so it's only an offer. It doesn't make commercial/legal sense.
Hmm point noted mate. But then here's the thing though. Getting Vidal is unlikely because Real/ Barcelona will undoubtedly target him and can offer mental money on Top of CL football. Pogba by the looks of it will stay in Juventus and even if he leaves, PSG makes much sense (they have shown great interest in the past, he's a Parisian and they can offer good salaries inspite of FFP because they could sell maybe Cavani/ Lavezzi). Gundogan no one's sure if he'll ever recover. So as you can see, the options are few and far between and in these circumstances Cesc would be a great addition. In an ideal world I would incline towards Vidal/ Pogba/ Gundogan (2012 versions) but right now it seems far-fetched don't you think ? BTW I personally would love Kovacic over anyone else. He has pace/ penetration/ deftness of foot and creativity. But we haven't been linked with him at all. So whether one likes it or not, Cesc might be the best possible option. I'd even take him ahead of Kroos.
PS : Don't take what I post to heart and chillax. I truly didn't mean to patronize you. Sometimes in the spur of the moment things get heated because we're debating our POV and there can be some miscommunication. Maybe sometimes I'm not making an effort to understand your point or I don't articulate my point well enough. I you felt offended by something I posted or I gave a wrong impression, I apologize. Ok ?
If we moved for Vidal/Pogba now I disagree that Madrid and Barca would be competition for them. Alonso just signed a new deal at Madrid, Modric is coming off his best season ever and they spent 30m+ on Illarrmendi last summer, they also have Khedira coming back from injury. Most of the summer transfer news with Barca is they'll be in for at least 1 CB/a wide forward to replace Alexis and possibly a RB to replace Alves whose been constantly linked with a move to PSG. They have other areas of much more importance and certainly couldn't get into a bidding war with us over someone like Pogba when funds need to be directed elsewhere. Bayern are stacked for CM's so much so that both Martinez/Kroos have been linked with moves and Gotze has complained about a lack of playing time. Most reports suggest they'll also prioritise a new CB.
I think right now we have a small window to sign either Vidal/Pogba because the circumstances with these clubs can certainly change I.E if Xavi retires next season and they've have an entirely refurbished summer kitty we could face competition or if City decide to get a replacement for Yaya whose 31 they could look to either of these. I'm honestly shocked they aren't an absolute priority and I think we could really hurt ourselves in the long run by missing out.
To me it seems ridiculous to agree a clause that allows a club to buy back a player for less money than you'd just bought, that really isn't commercial sense either. There also seems to have been massive assumptions based on a quote from Wenger that really just confirmed they'd be informed if a bid was made for him. The more you look into it the more this buy back clause seems unrealistic.
A long time was spent working on the clause (something which cocked up our summer more than it should have done) and it absolutely exists.
Barcelona probably agreed to the £25m on the basis that he would never want to leave.
Your first sentence doesn't make sense. If Barcelona accept a bid of £30m from one club they are obliged to offer Arsenal the chance to match it in this scenario. Then it's up to the player. Without it they don't have to tell Arsenal shit.
Prove it.
Wenger's said it exists, basically every media outlet has said it exists, and it's just common knowledge.
Prove that murder is against the law, while we're at it.
FFS I've debunked that scenario already.
That's the only way it makes any slight bit of sense (from Barca's side). I'd fire every lawyer in the place for even bringing that to me, much less fecking suggesting we sign off on it. Arsenal were weak and they'd have taken Fabregas eventually, clause or not.
Umm TBF I think we can never rationally contextualize what Real are are going to do. They are a mentalist club with a mentalist chairman and a mountainous budget to flail about because of their vastly superior revenues. It's true that Alonso signed a new deal but he's almost 33 and won't last forever. It would make sense for them to get a prime Vidal because they've been linked with him in the past, they don't have lot of holes to fill in their team apart from maybe #9 but that money can be recouped from Benzema's sale because some desperate club like Arsenal might want to sign him for Ozil-esque money. Vidal might prove to be the final piece in the jigsaw to attain La Decima if they fail this time around and this summer they might be entering an arms war to stockpile even more talent to overhaul Bayern/ Barcelona/ other prime CL contenders. I'd like for us to sign the players you mentioned + Koke but it just seems unlikely to me is all. Anyway let's wait and see, maybe Woody has a Vidal/ Pogba shaped ace up his sleeve.
Loads of contracts have clauses that are skated over because 'that'll never happen'. It will.Everything about the deal seems odd to me.
£35m was really £10-15m less than what he should have ordinarily gone for. It seemed to me at the time that there was some kind of tacit acceptance from Arsenal that we shouldn't hold them to ransom given we nicked him in the first place.
The deal was basically agreed by all accounts about three weeks before it was finally signed off. The reason for the delay was Wenger arguing over the finer details of the contract, later revealed by all the reliable Arsenal sources to be the legendary buy-back clause. I remember people ringing up phone-ins moaning profusely about Wenger wasting a crucial three weeks negotiating a clause that would never be used.
And now we're here.
Seeing Fabregas this season at Barca, it's crazy to see how he's dropped as a world class player. He's completely low on confidence and I'm not sure whether he still has that self belief that made him such a fantastic player at Arsenal.
Don't I know it. But bloody hell, talk about the fecking arrogance. What if he'd decided he wanted out after 6 months?
So what happens if he comes on the market and Arsenal, as any club with half a brain in their nut bid for him? Does he want to go back? If he wants to go elsewhere, where would that leave him with the fans? Because he'd have to publicly reject Arsenal in that case (though I still think he won't move and, if he does, it'll be to Arsenal).
Wenger mentioned a clause, nothing more. Don't bother looking for quotes on a price. There aren't any. None of the reports at the time of the transfer mentioned a set fee.
How did you manage that?
I think most Arsenal fans are hoping he just doesn't ever leave, for two reasons. Firstly, we don't absolutely need him and it would be a dent in our budget. Secondly, if we don't get him, someone else will.
Let's just have him stick it out at Barcelona. It's best for everyone.
It would be stupid if Arsenal would be interested in him......they need players in other positions
How should work a midfield with Fabregas, Wilshere, Ramsey, Özil & Walcott/OC/Cazorla?????
It would be the same shit idea if we would buy a striker like Cavani........we're needing players in other positions
How should work a midfield with Fabregas, Wilshere, Ramsey, Özil & Walcott/OC/Cazorla?????
It would be the same shit idea if we would buy a striker like Cavani........we're needing players in other positions
IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!
Wilshere is always getting injured and fabregas is also a better player. He would improve pretty much any team in the world except Barcelona. He hasn't played to his full potential at Barcelona but he definitely has not been terrible or even bad. Not many players would get into a team with xavi, iniesta and busquets and play as regularly as he has.
Compare Gundogan now to Fabregas at Arsenal (which is only fair because Gundogan is yet to be bought by Barcelona and forced into the wrong position in a system that doesn't really fit him). They're extremely similar players in style. The only difference is that Fabregas has already proven himself capable of not only playing well in the PL, but being the very best midfielder in the PL. I like them both, and would take either with open arms, but Fabregas is the safer option, comfortably.
Counting all his performances since he moved there, he's played a significantly smaller percentage of them in his best position than Smalling or Jones have at United. And people regularly (and rightly) point out that those two have never been given a proper chance as CBs. So Fabregas has been given even less of a proper chance.
Besides, it's not just about the number of games. A game or 45 minutes in CM out of every five or six games is no better than nothing in terms of proving that you can play in a position. Imagine if United had pushed Scholes into a wide position the way England once did, and we did it for five out of every six games he played for us. Would you blame him for being in a perpetual state of poor form, and for not being able to play his best football in that occasional central run-out? Of course not. It's a ridiculous thing to demand of a player.
Besides, I've still yet to see any of the anti-Fabregas brigade actually answer the point about him having been the best CM in the league for a good two seasons before Barca bought him. Are you saying that he has simply become a dramatically worse player? You don't think it's at all convenient that this apparent waning has happened exactly when he moved to a club where he has spent the vast majority of his time as a wide attacker or sitting on the bench?
Go get him Ed!
Dongou and Edgar Lé are on it, that's weird.
No Sanchez either. I'll take one of each please.
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