Can these threads be about transfer activity and leave the performance stuff in the thread for performance
Casemiro (Out)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
I’ve said already I doubt he’s on £350,000 a week but I presume just like not qualifying for CL you get a reduction and by qualifying for the CL the season after he arrived he would be entitled to get a pay increase. That would have been reduced again at the start of this season and will be reduced again next season because we won’t be in Europe.If we signed him on 350,000k in the Europa league. How do you negotiate a contract which states you have a 25% reduction based on a competition he’s not in?
Again, you took an arbitrary number and stated it as a fact. Do we have CL-related bonuses (and subsequent reductions) in most contracts? Most certainly. Are they the same for the entire squad? Unlikely.
And we’ve signed Casemiro when we weren’t in CL at all… so if £350k was his basic salary without the CL qualification, who says that it’s shrinking every time the club misses out on it again? Or did he get an increase on that base salary when we’ve qualified for CL in his first season?
Totally agree and the rumour is anything from £10m-15m which would be incredible plus the wages off the accounts every year.
If we assume they are £350k per week that’s £18.2m freed up annually. If we signed a 22/23 year replacement for £40m on a 5 year contract with 4 year payment terms on £120k per week the cost would be £10m transfer +£6m wages so the club would effectively be £2m per year better off plus probably about £5m of cash after they pay the £4-5m Agent fees for the new player but this is hugely encouraging start to a transfer window which is critical for the club and one where we need at least 3/4 players?
I see these sort of things said all the time about players but yet David Silva was basically the same size and so is Bernardo Silva is, Gomes is bigger than Verratti was and Verratti was regarded as one of the best midfielders in Europe of his time.
Gomes has played as a central midfielder in France which is physical league as well as in Europe as also played as part of a double pivot alongside Rice for England in which he was man of the match, the best thing about Gomes is his ability to play different roles and he’s just as good as a dictator in midfield as he is a roaming 10 and unlike Fernandes has pace and dribbling ability to excel in an Amorim tactical system.
It’s true, the physicality of this club is on the ground, and it seems silly adding a diminutive player to it, but Angel Gomes can definitely work if we use him in the right matches. The type of player you’d want in a 60~ game campaign with about 30 odd starts in all comps.
Whether he’d be happy taking that role is another story, mind…
Whether he’d be happy taking that role is another story, mind…
Realistically in January and/or in the summer we are needing to bring in 5 + players, Gomes on a free is a no brainer even if he rotates in he is better than an injured Mount or a aging Eriksen as an option, right now would walk into the 1st team as a regular, physicality wise, depends on how he is used, low centre of gravity helps and there have been many examples even in the prem of players who are not the biggest or strongest being stand outs
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David and Bernardo Silva are levels so far above Gomes who is playing in Ligue 1 for a reason. They also played in a side that dominated possession and had world class players with physicality to compensate.
We don’t have that.
It would be a really stupid move from the point of view of what we are desperately lacking.
At the same age Bernardo Silva was also playing in Ligue 1 and whilst I’m not saying Gomes will be as good as either of the Silva’s it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t sign a player on a free as we’re struggling financially and who is exactly the type we’ve been in need of for years.
I’d be very surprised if Amorim doesn’t add more physicality to the squad but at the same time we’re in desperate need of creativity and goals also, outside of Diallo I’d say Gomes is as good if not better than anyone else we’ve got who could play as one of the two behind the striker.
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He’s 5ft 6 shorter than both Silvas and his technical level is far below theirs too. I don’t think his pressing, dribbling or bally carrying are anywhere near the required level for No10 and certainly not for our CM.
He’s just not that good. He’s a good player but he’s not starting for United and wouldn’t solve any of the problems our midfield has. How anyone can see the last few years of PL football wherein the best midfielders have had that physical ability or even just see the Newcastle game and think Gomes is anywhere near to a sensible suggestion is beyond me.
Gomes isn't as nimble/agile as either Silva, and I'm not sure he fits Amorim's system well at all. I do think he could be a good Premier league player on some team that plays a 4-3-3 and wants a #8 whois good on the ball between a more athletic type and a sitting DM. Like a less lazy but weaker Tielemans.
Brighton - Paired with Baleba or when/if Baleba is sold for an obscene amount, paired with Wieffer or another DM/#8 type that Brighton buy next with a chunk of the Baleba money.
West Ham - Depends on who the next manager is I guess, but they have Guido Rodriguez and Edson Alvarez, they could use a passer next to one of them, actually get the ball forward on the ground which they haven't had since Rice left (and weren't actually great at it even then).
Newcastle (Joelinton-Gomes-Tonali, Joelinton-BrunoG-Gomes or Gomes-BrunoG-Tonali all seem decent enough and if Bruno G leaves they'll need some clever passing to go with Tonali's all-around game and Joelinton's strength, pace and energy) all seem like good fits
Dortmund and probably some other big continental sides could use a younger passing CM, too. Dortmund just brought in a 33 year old Pascal Gross and I don't think that's going that well. Sabitzer is over 30, their other CM/DMs are more tacklers than passers.
For us, I think he'd be a bit caught between #8 where he'd lack a bit of defensive strength, and #10, where maybe we want more end product.
Brighton - Paired with Baleba or when/if Baleba is sold for an obscene amount, paired with Wieffer or another DM/#8 type that Brighton buy next with a chunk of the Baleba money.
West Ham - Depends on who the next manager is I guess, but they have Guido Rodriguez and Edson Alvarez, they could use a passer next to one of them, actually get the ball forward on the ground which they haven't had since Rice left (and weren't actually great at it even then).
Newcastle (Joelinton-Gomes-Tonali, Joelinton-BrunoG-Gomes or Gomes-BrunoG-Tonali all seem decent enough and if Bruno G leaves they'll need some clever passing to go with Tonali's all-around game and Joelinton's strength, pace and energy) all seem like good fits
Dortmund and probably some other big continental sides could use a younger passing CM, too. Dortmund just brought in a 33 year old Pascal Gross and I don't think that's going that well. Sabitzer is over 30, their other CM/DMs are more tacklers than passers.
For us, I think he'd be a bit caught between #8 where he'd lack a bit of defensive strength, and #10, where maybe we want more end product.
I'm more giddy and interested in transfer out threads in January.
While the thread is discussing Angel Gomes, I'll just repeat the points I've been making elsewhere. Anyone that wants to bring in an almost uniquely tiny 5ft 3 player to supplement our already catastrophically weak, slow and small squad, is out of their gourd.
We let Gomes go for a reason - I don't think we need to worry about him coming back.
Interesting timing from Nassr with them selling Sekou Fofana today to Rennes and Talisca is also supposed to be quite close to leaving. It would free up a foreign spot or two for Casemiro...
Fofana they got 20 million euros for too, we could take that off her hands
Fofana they got 20 million euros for too, we could take that off her hands
Much as I like him as a player he's not what we need. If we had a strong first 11 and bench he'd be an interesting option. Right now we have to prioritise speed, strength and stamina as well as their technical skills to make up for the lack of it elsewhere
If we signed him on 350,000k in the Europa league. How do you negotiate a contract which states you have a 25% reduction based on a competition he’s not in?
This tweet from a reporter for The Athletic at the time of Casemiro's signing suggests his salary reaching its peak was contingent on us being in the Champions League.
Love how ‘an initial €60m’ quickly became £70m
Hope Saudi club is interested and sign him for maybe 30-40m for us to have some funds for Amorim to strengthen the squad
Nassr are selling Fofana and Talisca. Think He’ll go there in January.
Let’s hope so.