Good call. He with Marcus and Martinez were superb for 6 months under ETH. Should have been removed in the summer after being dropped for the fa cup final.
Casemiro (Out)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
It's not confidence. I dont think he gave a feck anymore and simply taking the piss.
We should take anything we can get for Casemiro in January. We badly need investment and he's on a huge wedge.
The only benefit to having him in the team is his threat at set pieces which has kind of diminished anyway. Hopefully the Saudis make an offer.
The only benefit to having him in the team is his threat at set pieces which has kind of diminished anyway. Hopefully the Saudis make an offer.
We should have sold him if he was only going to be a squad player. I think he’s always known his days were numbered here once SJR came in with his previous comments about the transfer. He’s certainly playing that way.
I think it’s pretty well documented that we tried. If there’s no market for him, what can you do?
33 in a couple of months. Needs to go.
Sad to see him like that. At first I thought he brought a lot of the right attitude to the team, even won us some games in the beginning. Now he just trots around the pitch, can't play a proper pass, opposition players just run circles around him. Tragic.
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It’s not just age. Age doesn’t explain his miss yesterday.
That thread is accurate about us sucking players into a vortex of ineptitude. Seems like very few of our signings get better over time and their first season with us is usually their best.
The only players that get better are young players that have only just started playing in the first team, as soon as they have been here a while they stall or regress. I said this a couple of times but if we can't start improving players again we will not be able to ever improve because we need to consitently bring in players and replace them a couple of years later once they have declined too much. That's not a sustainable model to run a club.
We should be desperate for this deal. Getting a fee for any of the players that have no future at all here would be amazing.
We will need a decent fee to break even for FFP… the time to sell the Saudi was after his first season in hindsight but he was also really good the first year.
Best case scenario is he can be loaned out the last year of his contract for a small fee and a percentage of his wages so we cut some of the cost. We missed the boat to sell him to Saudi Arabia and there are just no viable options given the huge loss involved in getting rid of him.
May be nothing but I found these two stories interesting and hopefully linked
Nassr just sold Forana for 20 million euro...
Nassr just sold Forana for 20 million euro...
Saw something on Reddit that suggested we'd need something like £22M for it to be a profit in the books, can't see us getting anything like that
Probably doesn't make much sense shipping him in January unless it's a proper quality deal.
We need numbers as much as we need incomings
We need numbers as much as we need incomings
Love Case as a player but for fecks sake if we didn’t see last night what we need in midfield then we’re truly doomed
If we can get 20m for Casemiro from SA, we’ll nearly break even from an accounting standpoint and obviously free up a ton of wages. If we can pull in 40m for Rashford, we’ll have about 600k in weekly wages off the books and approximately 40m in accounting profit. That can easily be converted into 2 or 3 50m pound players as long as the payment structure doesn’t exceed 40m total due in the first year. 3 signings in that range could have a transformative effect on the team. Getting in another 10, and CM and a wide midfielder/winger/wingback type.
The more under 22m that we sell Casemiro, the more it eats into the profit from a potential Rashford sale. If we could flog a few peripherals such as Lindelof, Malacia etc, that can also be parlayed into a greater signing if the payment structure is right. The situation with Antony is bleak, financially, and I think our best bet is to really try and covert him to be a proper left wingback. There is no viable way to sell him in the immediate future that doesn’t result in a substantial loss going on the books.
The more under 22m that we sell Casemiro, the more it eats into the profit from a potential Rashford sale. If we could flog a few peripherals such as Lindelof, Malacia etc, that can also be parlayed into a greater signing if the payment structure is right. The situation with Antony is bleak, financially, and I think our best bet is to really try and covert him to be a proper left wingback. There is no viable way to sell him in the immediate future that doesn’t result in a substantial loss going on the books.
20m would be a miracle, and anything less than that would actually cost us money in PSR terms. I can’t see us shifting him until summer at the earliest.
Think people are seriously overestimating the PSR hit associated with selling him this winter. Let's do some quick math...
Casemiro signed a 4-year contract with a £60m estimated transfer fee in 2022. His wages are estimated at £350k/week. That would mean annual amortization of £15m and an annual wage expense of roughly £18m.
So with that in mind, let's look at two scenarios. One where we keep Casemiro until at least the summer, and one where we sell to Saudi in January, without a transfer fee but with them covering wages.
KEEP: Impact to this accounting period's finances would be roughly half a year of amortization plus half a year of wages.
£7.5m + £9m = £16.5m
SELL: Impact to this accounting period's finances would be a write-down of his remaining book value (1.5 years of amortization)
£7.5m + £15m = £22.5m
As you can see, the net PSR impact on this accounting period would be only a £6m hit. Not great, but hardly a disaster.
Casemiro signed a 4-year contract with a £60m estimated transfer fee in 2022. His wages are estimated at £350k/week. That would mean annual amortization of £15m and an annual wage expense of roughly £18m.
So with that in mind, let's look at two scenarios. One where we keep Casemiro until at least the summer, and one where we sell to Saudi in January, without a transfer fee but with them covering wages.
KEEP: Impact to this accounting period's finances would be roughly half a year of amortization plus half a year of wages.
£7.5m + £9m = £16.5m
SELL: Impact to this accounting period's finances would be a write-down of his remaining book value (1.5 years of amortization)
£7.5m + £15m = £22.5m
As you can see, the net PSR impact on this accounting period would be only a £6m hit. Not great, but hardly a disaster.
Let's hope this is a lesson to the powers that be to never purchase Madrid's cast offs ever again. Only ever ends one way.
Yep. Our inability to sell him in the summer is why McTominay had to go for us to bring in Ugarte
Really hope the Saudis can find enough spare change to take him off our hands. I've enjoyed watching him but we need to sell him soon if we want to get any kind of fee
Incorrect. If we sold him for a single pound we'd save about £30M in wages over the next 18 months, which will all show up as FFP.
You could be referring to his amortization from his transfer fee. It's true if we sold him it would all show up on the books this year, rather than being amortized into next year too. Depending on how tight the books are this year we may not be able to handle that, but all the wage savings would still count for FFP purposes.
Exactly right. And the wage savings from selling him would be £27M. I'd sell him for nothing if we could handle that £6M hit. It'd be a miracle for us.
There was no market for him. You can't sell something no one wants, and absolutely no one wanted a washed up 33 year old on £350k a week. We can only hope somehow there's a fool out there who's changed their mind.
There’s no way Casemiro is on £350,000 a week . Even before the 25% deduction for not reaching CL this season so your numbers are way off . Taking into consideration we won’t be in Europe next season so I’d imagine it’s less again from next August
Correct. Some of his decision making last night screams soccer aid. Flying into tackles, barely tracking back, trying outrageously stupid things. He does not give one single sh*t.
His wage currently is £300k per week.
I think he has lost so much pace and it feels like he can be caught any time by anyone. The worst thing for me is the crazy passes he makes because he knows anyone can catch him. It works out sometimes. But I am holding my breath in fear.
Hope we can move him on in January.
Hope we can move him on in January.
Based on? Capology is probably the most reliable source in the unreliable world of non-disclosable footballers' salaries and they have him on £350k.
I
I defer to your better understanding.
You know united will sign Modric and Carvajal in the summer, and Valverde and Bellingham in ten years time.
If Woodward was still here, absolutely.
First season he was so good but he looks way way off the level now which is a shame. He should be the experience in the middle which helps players like Mainoo and Collyer and even Ugarte, but he can't stand up to the pace of the game.
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We can’t afford to have Gomes in midfield his physical profile is completely wrong for the PL.
Even if he is , with the 25% reduction it’s in around £280,000 max he’s on.
If we signed him on 350,000k in the Europa league. How do you negotiate a contract which states you have a 25% reduction based on a competition he’s not in?
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Ideally we’d sell him for a fee, he’ll get a chance to make some money before retirement after an absolutely outstanding career.
Hopefully the lessons are learned, while Rice cost £105m and Casemiro £70m the £35m difference (let alone wage saving cost) hasn’t been worth it.
We invested in a a player that we knew we’d be looking to replace within 2/3 seasons max. A world class player right on his decline.
When the next Rice is coming through I hope we just get it done. I said before in a couple of other threads we need at least 3 top quality additions, CF, LWB and CM/AM to be anywhere close to top 4 quality again. We can’t get that from taking the short term cheap approach (especially when they aren’t even all that cheap).
Hopefully the lessons are learned, while Rice cost £105m and Casemiro £70m the £35m difference (let alone wage saving cost) hasn’t been worth it.
We invested in a a player that we knew we’d be looking to replace within 2/3 seasons max. A world class player right on his decline.
When the next Rice is coming through I hope we just get it done. I said before in a couple of other threads we need at least 3 top quality additions, CF, LWB and CM/AM to be anywhere close to top 4 quality again. We can’t get that from taking the short term cheap approach (especially when they aren’t even all that cheap).
Players are still human no matter how much they have won previously. Think about after Moyes came in; the incredible dressing room we had didn't take long to start losing confidence and making more mistakes. Part of it was most of them were old and their bodies were starting to decline, while part of it was having the greatest manager of all time retire and be replaced by a clearly incompetent one. Sounds very similar to Casemiro.
Casemiro was, by far, the worst hit by ETH's ridiculous system last season. He was basically left by himself in the middle of the park with no help at all to be overrun by multiple opposition players every single game for an entire season. You could have combined prime Keane and Kante together and that player wouldn't have been able to cover the amount of space that ETH was giving up. You could see Case was desperate and was trying his best in an impossible situation for most of the season, but by the end he was so dispirited and so little belief in what was happening that he was treating it like a joke at times. Which obviously isn't great, but at the same time it's hard to blame him as the entire system was a joke. This season he's often been a bit better (especially when he was playing next to Ugarte), but partnering him with Eriksen isn't much different than playing him in midfield by himself again.
Obviously it's time to move him on if we can, but I do feel sorry for him and think we made his decline look worse than it really is.