Casemiro (Out)

Big Ben Foster said:
I'm not referring to cash flow. My understanding is that amortization does get counted as part of the player spending / squad cost that we get measured against. Otherwise we could just spend whatever transfer fees we wanted without worrying about the regulations.
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Yes, that’s why Chelsea were offering players 8-year contracts to spread their value across as many years as possible to circumvent FFP. They tightened that gap recently though and I think 5 years is the maximum amortization of initial transfer fee, regardless of contract length.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I think we diverge on our understanding of the regulations though yes I agree that amortized value still on the books is compared against when selling a player. As I understand it (and subject to being corrected) the value of his contract this summer is probably, as you explained, half of his transfer value in. We'd need to sell him for that amount of more for it to impact positively or be neutral towards our FFP spending ceiling.
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Not really, as rightly pointed out he is still going to incur £35m in total cost in 24-25 if we keep him, equivalent of one-time hit of £35m (reflective of his residual value) that we will have to reflect in our books if we sell him this year. Basically any fee we can get now is going to make us better off in terms of 24-25 P&L.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
This was such a weird signing

Casemiro in his peak, up to and including the level he was in his first season here gets into any team in the World. He'd not look out of place in a midfield with Keane and Scholes at their peaks.

But spending £70m on him at a time it was obvious that his best years were behind him seems mental
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Also 4 year contract to a 30 year old footballer was stupid. Varane was 28 coming at United and still signed on 3 years and not 4.
 
Sarni said:
Not really, as rightly pointed out he is still going to incur £35m in total cost in 24-25 if we keep him, equivalent of one-time hit of £35m (reflective of his residual value) that we will have to reflect in our books if we sell him this year. Basically any fee we can get now is going to make us better off in terms of 24-25 P&L.
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OK thanks, I understand better the point made here. I might have misunderstood it.

I don't know if that's true within the context of the regulated books. I know selling much below the amortized value affects FFP standing, I'm not sure the wages are analysed using the same formula (though I'm sure they're counted in some larger compound). In short for the purpose of the regulators l'm unsure it's an all things being equal thing. He's costing us 35m whatever the case (in the examples presented) but if it's through wages and not through something FFP label a massive loss, I don't know it affects our authorized ceiling the same.

Of course it's still a financial burden the club bears in the end.
 
sdb4884 said:
Why the hell is this guy still playing for us?
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On astronomical wages and no plans on moving on. Similar to Sancho, Martial etc

Also puts off most clubs unless we reduce fee significantly to offset the wages
 
sdb4884 said:
Why the hell is this guy still playing for us?
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Wages. He will leave on a free in two years time. We're getting nothing for him. Same with Sancho, Lindelof, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony and Mctominay (if we reject Fulham's advances).
 
sdb4884 said:
Why the hell is this guy still playing for us?
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Remember when we signed him, the vitriol aimed at the posters on here who dared to suggest it was a bad idea to part with 70m on a 30 year old, on massive wages.

Now we're stuck with him for the next 2 years until he leaves on a free.
 
Dannn411 said:
Wages. He will leave on a free in two years time. We're getting nothing for him. Same with Sancho, Lindelof, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony and Mctominay (if we reject Fulham's advances).
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Well, in the same vein, hopefully the new regime will leave us stuck with less assets that are unsellable.
 
I have a feeling he will cost us a few games next season. His reactions are so slow, not what we need from a DMC. He's not aggressive, doesn't cover enough grass ...
Such a shame that Ten Hag has to start him most of our games.
 
Dominos said:
Remember when we signed him, the vitriol aimed at the posters on here who dared to suggest it was a bad idea to part with 70m on a 30 year old, on massive wages.

Now we're stuck with him for the next 2 years until he leaves on a free.
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Yep. "who cares about resale value?!" and "it's not your money, so what?"

Same posters will be the ones now moaning that we've got no money.
 
Dominos said:
Remember when we signed him, the vitriol aimed at the posters on here who dared to suggest it was a bad idea to part with 70m on a 30 year old, on massive wages.

Now we're stuck with him for the next 2 years until he leaves on a free.
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Spot on. I was one of those people who was almost driven off here for daring to suggest spending 70m on a 30 year old was just flat out insane. Madrid must have been laughing their heads off.
 
Most of us have been waiting for a Saudi leg up here but it doesn't seem to be happening across the board this summer does it?

Seems very little happening compared to last summer.
 
The Cat said:
Most of us have been waiting for a Saudi leg up here but it doesn't seem to be happening across the board this summer does it?

Seems very little happening compared to last summer.
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It was maybe a one time thing. There's really 5 clubs who made all the big moves and they must be pretty stocked up from last year.
Saudi is also having the World Cup, taking over Pro Boxing and a few others I am unaware of on their plate right now.

And perhaps Casemiro is not interested in those offers anyway.
 
Dannn411 said:
Spot on. I was one of those people who was almost driven off here for daring to suggest spending 70m on a 30 year old was just flat out insane. Madrid must have been laughing their heads off.
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We've allowed Madrid to sucker us too many times. They only ever sell players they want rid of, and they always want rid of them for a good reason. The huge fees we pay them for their cast offs are helping fund their team upgrades, so it's a double win for them.

Those cunning bastards must be grinning with delight whenever we come knocking. I hope the new regime sees the foolishness in all of this and decides not to do business with them ever again.
 
Just suck it up and hope for the best lads. He's so immobile these days he can't even move clubs.
 
Escobar said:
I was baffled initially, now I am getting pissed. Sell and replace ffs, asap
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He's not sellable. Wages are too high; you literally probably couldn't sell him for a single pound bc no club would agree to match his current wages.

You either release him (meaning we pay all his wages anyway) or keep him as a very, very expensive squad player. One of the highest paid in the Prem, quite the joke.
 
I am sure if we had even a half decent offer for him, he would have gone by now.

Sadly, we will have him until the end of his contract.
 
Can't we just offer him for free to the Saudis?

Would be massive if we can get his 350k wages off the book.
 
arthurka said:
His passing is shocking.
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Goes from sublime to shocking. Has the ability and the vision for some sweet passes but makes equal number of hospital passes.

He was one type of player at RM and here at a ripe age of 32 we want him to be a different type of player altogether. Baffling signing and baffling in how we use him.
 
Dominos said:
Remember when we signed him, the vitriol aimed at the posters on here who dared to suggest it was a bad idea to part with 70m on a 30 year old, on massive wages.

Now we're stuck with him for the next 2 years until he leaves on a free.
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And the ones suggesting Rice as a better option were laughed at.
 
Escobar said:
I was baffled initially, now I am getting pissed. Sell and replace ffs, asap
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He is on a silly salary and a long contract. Why should he move? Who would want him? He doesn't need to go to Al Ittihad. We are his Al-Ittihad
 
Chelsea and City would force him out this window, same with Antony and Sancho. We all know the season they'll have.
 
Escobar said:
Push him out then, we don't need to be the good guys here
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I wouldn't have taken him to preseason. That might encourage him to leave. I doubt it though. As said we are his al ittihad
 
His contract is so fat that at the price and his recent form do you really think there will be any takers? There are no rumours from anywhere now.

If he is used in a setup that minimises some of his deficiencies then his performances will improve - however he will be very difficult to get off our books this year so we will need to shift others on to make way for midfield reinforcements.

Do you think we would have won the FA Cup if he had played instead of Amrabat? Probably not…
 
devilish said:
I wouldn't have taken him to preseason. That might encourage him to leave. I doubt it though. As said we are his al ittihad
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I read somewhere earlier in the window that his wanted a £25m payoff for him to leave.
 
devilish said:
I wouldn't have taken him to preseason. That might encourage him to leave. I doubt it though. As said we are his al ittihad
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Yeah, should have made it clear he will not play this season but without any replacement, we are somewhat dependent on him which is a really bad joke (which will be evident once the season starts)
 
Escobar said:
Yeah, should have made it clear he will not play this season but without any replacement, we are somewhat dependent on him which is a really bad joke (which will be evident once the season starts)
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I wonder whether you remember Keane in his last year. He basically ruined our season as he kept walking rather then running on the pitch while blaming others for what was, essentially, his job. Traditional DMs rely mostly on leg work. That's the first thing to go and once gone all that is left is their warrior like nature. That on its own is destructive as there is a limit to how many times a Roy Keane or a Casemiro would allow a young snooty player go past them before their pride will get the best out of them. What's left is, well, fouls in dangerous areas, yellow cards and red cards.

Casemiro is a dead weight. The temptation of trying to play him with players who can do the leg work for him is there but a traditional DM without legs is basically useless. Quite frankly I'd rather see us sealing a deal with him were he leave for a free (and then he negotiate a good deal for himself elsewhere) and then rely on Collyer as backup. The kid might not be ready for the job but as said I'd rather have an inexperienced DM with legs then an expert DM without them.
 
pascell said:
But say we value him at £30m (which according to reports is what we valued him at) will represent -£30m on the balance sheets, which means we have £30m less to spend.
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No. We would already amortized £30m of his value if we assume that we got him for £60m on an initial 4 year contract (60/4 = £15m/year). So, if we are able to generate £30m from his sale, it won't negatively affect our books.
 
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