Casemiro (Out)

I'm happy to keep Casemeiro. He was excellent in the first season here. He suffered last season because of ETH crazy basketball tactics.

He will be fine once all the players are back and ETH use "normal" tactics again.
 
We’re pretty much stuck unless we can sell players. Nothing the club can do if an offer doesn’t come.
 
We have to always remind ourselves that it’s not up to the club if a player actually leaves. There has to be a buying club and the player has to want to go.

I always see comments like “ffs we should be getting rid” but it really is not that easy, especially for the players we have that are a bit washed up and on high salaries
 
I actually have a feeling he's gonna have a very good season. Though I'm basing that on absolutely nothing.
 
Last edited:
HookedOnAPhelan said:
I actually have a feeling he's gonna have a very good season
Click to expand...
If we play the way we played last season committing everybody forward, then no chance in hell will he have a good season. If Ten Hag finally sees reasons and reverts to a structured playing style with positional discipline then maybe the bad aspects of his game can be shielded and protected enough for him to not be an absolute liability on the pitch. But he will still be a net negative everytime he plays. How damaging that will be to the rest of the team depends on our playing style.
 
Adamsk7 said:
We have to always remind ourselves that it’s not up to the club if a player actually leaves. There has to be a buying club and the player has to want to go.

I always see comments like “ffs we should be getting rid” but it really is not that easy, especially for the players we have that are a bit washed up and on high salaries
Click to expand...
Not sure about that.
We can be far more ruthless than we actually are. Casemiro’s case is a bit extreme because of his age and wages, but for someone like Sancho or Wan-Bissaka, for example - freeze him out, leave him out of tour, show him he’s not part of the future and is not going to feature going forward.

Now, obviously, reduces your leverage in the negotiations, but there aren’t any right now anyway.

I remember when Pep came to City, finished barely 4th, and on the day the season ended, they released like 7 players or something. Very contrasting to how we operate.

We just finished 8th, the worst season in our lifetimes and the only person involved in this that actually left is Varane and he was hardly one of the culprits. I don’t see any consequences to that. To start the season with this same group is very underwhelming, I must say.
 

Whilst I would still sell provided an acceptable offer came in, I don’t think that goal against Arsenal when havertz scored is something that can be used against him. Was quite evident he was playing in a role he’s not comfortable or used to. I’d only really judge from the games played in midfield
 
Semper Fudge said:
Not sure what your point is here, he was having to play as a CB because of injuries. Obviously not a role he’s comfortable in.
Click to expand...
A DM filling in at CB couldn't possibly grasp when to sprint out with the other defenders to avoid playing everyone onside.
 
Well he’s not going to say, “I’m desperate to sell the old tractor”
 
El Presidente said:
Not sure about that.
We can be far more ruthless than we actually are. Casemiro’s case is a bit extreme because of his age and wages, but for someone like Sancho or Wan-Bissaka, for example - freeze him out, leave him out of tour, show him he’s not part of the future and is not going to feature going forward.

Now, obviously, reduces your leverage in the negotiations, but there aren’t any right now anyway.

I remember when Pep came to City, finished barely 4th, and on the day the season ended, they released like 7 players or something. Very contrasting to how we operate.

We just finished 8th, the worst season in our lifetimes and the only person involved in this that actually left is Varane and he was hardly one of the culprits. I don’t see any consequences to that. To start the season with this same group is very underwhelming, I must say.
Click to expand...
We did freeze Sancho out for ten whole months. He's still here.

And City released players at the end of their contracts. Asking us to release Sancho, Wan-Bissaka, Casemiro et al is asking us to pay tens of millions of pounds to terminate contracts when we're navigating a cashflow problem.

Talk about wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
El Presidente said:
No evidence of that.
Click to expand...
To be fair, there's no evidence against it either.

Personally I expect it'll be somewhere in the middle. Casemiro will go on to be a fair bit better than he was last season, while still being relatively easy to upgrade further. In the two preseason matches so far ETH has gone back to a more normal midfield set-up, and I would hope that our defence will push higher than it did last season. That will make it a much easier job for our #6, rather than the suicidal tactics that we used last season where you could have had the lovechild of Kante, Keane and Makelele and they wouldn't have been able to cover that space.
 
MadDogg said:
To be fair, there's no evidence against it either.

Personally I expect it'll be somewhere in the middle. Casemiro will go on to be a fair bit better than he was last season, while still being relatively easy to upgrade further. In the two preseason matches so far ETH has gone back to a more normal midfield set-up, and I would hope that our defence will push higher than it did last season. That will make it a much easier job for our #6, rather than the suicidal tactics that we used last season where you could have had the lovechild of Kante, Keane and Makelele and they wouldn't have been able to cover that space.
Click to expand...

I think we need at least one new set of legs in that midfield at the very minimum. With the exact same set of players it's hard to imagine we're not going to run into the same issues even if ETH sets it up a little differently. At the end of the day there's three and Bruno is one of them... Unless a fit Mount somehow make them all click.
 
I think his best position isn’t the one we want him to perform in unfortunately. As an aggressive DM in his time at Madrid he could close down space or the players and if caught out of position had the legs to get back without much issue. Quality around him helped of course.

However now, when not at his sharpest, he gets caught between actions and teams play around him or he lunges in. If he just sat, broke up play and kept it simple he could have a role. Not as the sole sitting midfielder in the squad for me though. He would be back up and for experience.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
He is in £350k a week - we can’t just leave him around playing sparingly - he has 2 years left on his contract - he is going to cost us £32m alone in wages if he stays.
Click to expand...
Problem is Casemerio only leaves if another club is at least willing to match his current wages for next 2 years AND tack on an extra year or 2 at close to same wages. Every club saw the same deficienes that your fans witnessed last season so the sporting value for that financial outlay does not make sense for most...with the Saudis being the exception. But do no expect a "decent" transfer fee on top. Just accept the financial loss and plan around like we did with Pepe
 
T00lsh3d said:
Well he’s not going to say, “I’m desperate to sell the old tractor”
Click to expand...
Exactly. These type of statements mean nothing really. "Player who currently plays for Manchester United has a role to play in the upcoming season".
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I'm happy to keep Casemeiro. He was excellent in the first season here. He suffered last season because of ETH crazy basketball tactics.

He will be fine once all the players are back and ETH use "normal" tactics again.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen a few people say this; however, my recollection is that he was average to poor in the second half of that season.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I'm happy to keep Casemeiro. He was excellent in the first season here. He suffered last season because of ETH crazy basketball tactics.

He will be fine once all the players are back and ETH use "normal" tactics again.
Click to expand...

I agree to a some degree. His rapid decline was definitely partially down to the tactics. I am just not sure what makes you think they will change?
 
G-manc said:
I’ve seen a few people say this; however, my recollection is that he was average to poor in the second half of that season.
Click to expand...

After also starting the season very slowly.

He did have an excellent 3-4 months though, but even during that there were signs, the constant diving in recklessly which many excused by blaming a ref agenda.

However like any of the midfielders he would obviously bring more value if Ten Hag stops setting up midfield as incompetently as he did last season.
 
Give him away. Offer him to Saudi for no transfer fee. Just getting his wages off the books is 18 mil saved and hopefully frees us up enough to move for another option.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
He is in £350k a week - we can’t just leave him around playing sparingly - he has 2 years left on his contract - he is going to cost us £32m alone in wages if he stays.
Click to expand...
Agree. That salary and the drop of from a wonderful first season is sad to see,not seen anybody bar big injuries decline to such a degree.

What are people talking about also with "if we play 3 cbs" "be good in a double pivot" "It was Ten Hags tactics".......come on now. So many of his physical attributes have dropped even say 10% that he is fouling on tackles he would win, losing the ball turning where he would break free.

His passing range, shooting,heading is all still there but as you say....£350k a week, thanks for the best cm season since Keane, you were great.....but we have to get him off the books, not just for the wages.....but because he isnt good enough now
 
Exiled_Red said:
Give him away. Offer him to Saudi for no transfer fee. Just getting his wages off the books is 18 mil saved and hopefully frees us up enough to move for another option.
Click to expand...

Giving him away when he cost £70m only 2 years ago is a massive cost towards FFP. If the Club amortized his value over say 5 years, then there is still £42m on the book and the club still has to pay most of the £70m to Real Madrid still.

Alemar said:
we can’t - it would result in a 30m accounting loss, limiting our spending power drastically
Click to expand...

Or this.
 
If he stays he'll be better than a lot of people will expect. A better backline behind him will cover him too.
 
El Presidente said:
We can be far more ruthless than we actually are. Casemiro’s case is a bit extreme because of his age and wages, but for someone like Sancho or Wan-Bissaka, for example - freeze him out, leave him out of tour, show him he’s not part of the future and is not going to feature going forward.
Click to expand...

This isn't how any well run business treats its employees, These are people we are talking about, people who have friends all over the club and throughout the game.

Do you imagine these tactics would make us an attractive club to potential signings, or motivate the players we have here to give 110% for a manager ?
 
VP89 said:
If he stays he'll be better than a lot of people will expect. A better backline behind him will cover him too.
Click to expand...
And there was me thinking that a DM was supposed to offer protection to a backline and not the other way around.
 
Bondi77 said:
And there was me thinking that a DM was supposed to offer protection to a backline and not the other way around.
Click to expand...
They work in tandem, no singular player is going to 'protect' the back line.

Casemiro may very well be done, but it was exacerbated by injuries last year because of the vast area he had to cover. Having proactive CB's like Lisandro will help whoever plays there immeasurably
 
Bondi77 said:
And there was me thinking that a DM was supposed to offer protection to a backline and not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Well for starters he doesn't need to step in as a CB (we hope).
And secondly an organized backline help every player infront of them to play progressively and take more risks in 50/50's & cutting interceptions. When there is an organized defence, it's less of a frendzy.
 
VP89 said:
Well for starters he doesn't need to step in as a CB (we hope).
And secondly an organized backline help every player infront of them to play progressively and take more risks in 50/50's & cutting interceptions. When there is an organized defence, it's less of a frendzy.
Click to expand...
He will still give the ball away in midfield with his slack passing and lack of awareness around him and he will still get caught out further up the field and too slow to get back.
The guy has come to the most physically demanding league in the world at the back end of his career and this is what happens and we are stuck with it.
 
Bondi77 said:
He will still give the ball away in midfield with his slack passing and lack of awareness around him and he will still get caught out further up the field and too slow to get back.
The guy has come to the most physically demanding league in the world at the back end of his career and this is what happens and we are stuck with it.
Click to expand...
With a defence that's capable of a high line and a superb sweeper option in Yorro, I think he'll afford himself some loose passing here and there. He's still a progressive passer and has a good knack of breaking up the play, with a great ability to put out fires.

The only 6 we are linked with (Ugarte) is actually not that good a passer himself. Casemiro is obviously past his peak, but he's also not a complete liability. I think last season exposed his biggest flaws and didn't really support his strengths. A good and organized back line allows his strengths to be on display more, and he won't be remotely as bad as some people are claiming.
 
If we're keeping Casemiro then the tactics need to be changed. Can't have him as a one-man midfield next season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.