[Stack]

Its a funny thing how a certain momentum builds up over time and peoples reckons become fact.

 

[The United]

This thread. My God. Don’t know why I bother. The disconnect between the comments and what actually happens on the pitch is never not mind blowing.

Yup. Thought the same.

 

[NZT-One]

I presume “dominated” means more possession, more shots and a better xG. Which, you know, actually happened?

Sure, maybe it means that. Why not. I've seen both games. Dominated is the last word I'd use, in fact, I'd be really uncomfortable. But I guess, I am way too literal anyways. Why not. We were awesome. We are definitely on the right track because we were soooo good. If that helps with the insecurity about something that matters for fans, why not.

And before you think of a reply - be aware of the new era. We all use words differently. What I say isn't what you understand. What I mean is encrypted by using sounds and character combinations that look like familiar words, but arent.

Dominate is maybe too strong a word, but we clearly outplayed both sides.

Outplayed. Sure. Why not. Again. We scored 5(!!!) goals. We scored four, three of them were capital errors by the oppositon that fell into our lap mostly and one was a set piece. Lets call that dominated. Or call it being outplayed. Why should that word mean something when others don't.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Sure, maybe it means that. Why not. I've seen both games. Dominated is the last word I'd use, in fact, I'd be really uncomfortable. But I guess, I am way too literal anyways. Why not. We were awesome. We are definitely on the right track because we were soooo good. If that helps with the insecurity about something that matters for fans, why not.

Outplayed. Sure. Why not. Again. We scored 5(!!!) goals. We scored four, three of them were capital errors by the oppositon that fell into our lap mostly and one was a set piece. Lets call that dominated. Or call it being outplayed. Why should that word mean something when others don't.

Feels like you're rambling for no reason to be honest.

I have no idea one can watch both games and come away thinking United didn't outplay both Spurs and City.

But you do you.

 

[NZT-One]

Feels like you're rambling for no reason to be honest.

I have no idea one can watch both games and come away thinking United didn't outplay both Spurs and City.

But you do you.

Obviously I do me. But now we have something in common - I have no idea how somebody could come to the conclusion that in those games one team outplayed the other. Its bonkers to me. But as I said - the most likely explanation is that my definition of domination and "outplaying" is fairly different to yours. I'd love to know what neutrals think... I am pretty doubtful, those two words would be used there... But who knows.

 

[LeonDion]

Bang average player…same 4/5 fanboys will have you believe performances don’t matter. We need to move on from Bruno if we are to be more than we been with him.

 

[Gloccamora]

It's amazing how many goals we concede after Bruno brainlessly could or gives away the ball in the midfield.

 

[Withnail]

Thought he was ok tonight, but I couldn't believe he didn't get a shot away on this left foot that time in the first half he was put through and instead tried an outside of the foot flick back in for Hojlund that was intercepted

Watching that I expected him to take the shot on as the ball came down. I was surprised when he put the ball into the box.

He had one of those games tonight where he was getting into dangerous positions a lot but the final ball just didn't really come off for him.

 

[Withnail]

Sure, maybe it means that. Why not. I've seen both games. Dominated is the last word I'd use, in fact, I'd be really uncomfortable. But I guess, I am way too literal anyways. Why not. We were awesome. We are definitely on the right track because we were soooo good. If that helps with the insecurity about something that matters for fans, why not.

And before you think of a reply - be aware of the new era. We all use words differently. What I say isn't what you understand. What I mean is encrypted by using sounds and character combinations that look like familiar words, but arent.

Outplayed. Sure. Why not. Again. We scored 5(!!!) goals. We scored four, three of them were capital errors by the oppositon that fell into our lap mostly and one was a set piece. Lets call that dominated. Or call it being outplayed. Why should that word mean something when others don't.

Now you're just being straight up weird. Maybe take a break.

Spurs weren't good tonight. Our keeper was terrible and they scored from very low % chances.

 

[NZT-One]

Now you're just being straight up weird. Maybe take a break.

Spurs weren't good tonight. Our keeper was terrible and they scored from very low % chances.

I know, I noticed as well. It isn't acted though, I genuinely don't get it. For me some of these posts are exactly what we laughed at when it was taken from RAWK a few years ago. I know I am not going to change it. Probably some sort of fan mindset dynamic that just doesn't apply to me so I can't get it in others.

 

[Rozay]

I don’t think he’s played poorly tonight. He just exposed his limitations in the role he was asked to play. If he had more Son Heung Min qualities, for example, the positions and situations he found himself in in the first half would probably have resulted in better. Because those are the qualities you want from someone playing that role in this formation. As a free-roaming 10, theoretically he will have Son ahead of him. And when he then releases this Son, the Son will then be expected to do the things Bruno couldn’t do tonight. Now he is the one being released. He doesn’t have strength, speed or dribbling, so it becomes something of a blunt instrument in that role. It would have been even worse if players like Romero and Van der Ven were playing, he’d have been completely dominated there, which isn’t his fault of course, because the role doesn’t suit his strengths.

I think he had a good game, or at least as good as can be expected, but I think it’s notable that Amorim has mainly moved him back since he’s come, and I don’t think he sees him as a front three player, rightly so, in my opinion. Now the question becomes is he a midfield two player. Not for a dominant side, in my opinion. So the solution pretty much presents itself here.

 

[lsd]

Weird how he can be our best player and then worst player far too often.

I read quite a few people saying he would likely struggle the most trying to fit into Amorim's system and it does seem like Amorim is really trying hard to fit him into it.

He just doesn't seem to be a natural fit for it

 

[Scandi Red]

Weird how he can be our best player and then worst player far too often.

I read quite a few people saying he would likely struggle the most trying to fit into Amorim's system and it does seem like Amorim is really trying hard to fit him into it.

He just doesn't seem to be a natural fit for it

But him and Amad have been our best performers since Amorim took over (with Ugarte close behind).

The numbers seem to be going in the right direction too. G/A, key passes and even pass accuracy. He also shoots less frequently from a distance, which is nice to see!

 

[Lyng]

But him and Amad have been our best performers since Amorim took over (with Ugarte close behind).

The numbers seem to be going in the right direction too. G/A, key passes and even pass accuracy. He also shoots less frequently from a distance, which is nice to see!

Yeah the improvement this season from Bruno after Amorim came in has been very noticable. He had a very bad start to the season but has been very good lately. I have to say I have a hard time seeing why people say he cant be a part of the system.

 

[youngrell]

His strengths and weaknesses were quite clear last night. He took up some wonderful positions and really caused their right side some issues in the first half, but he wasn’t able to capitalise due to his weakness on the left and inability to take on the last man.

I think he’d have gotten off at least a couple of good efforts on goal had he found himself in the right channel, possibly even scoring from this positions.

Interestingly, he had the second highest pass % of the whole team last night.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But him and Amad have been our best performers since Amorim took over (with Ugarte close behind).

The numbers seem to be going in the right direction too. G/A, key passes and even pass accuracy. He also shoots less frequently from a distance, which is nice to see!

If anything, his versatility is a big plus for Amorin. Him and Diallo are the only players to have consistently produced good performances in two different positions. So here we are again. A manager quickly realising Bruno has qualities the team desperately needs - and is hence, undroppable - while assorted caftards loudly proclaim he’s the reason this team can never be any good and he must immediately be dropped.

 

[Escobar]

I just think that magic spark does not outweigh all the downside anymore. It used to be different a few seasons ago but the basics seem to not really work well for him anymore.
Starting to replace him makes absolutely sense imo

 

[Desert Eagle]

His strengths and weaknesses were quite clear last night. He took up some wonderful positions and really caused their right side some issues in the first half, but he wasn’t able to capitalise due to his weakness on the left and inability to take on the last man.

I think he’d have gotten off at least a couple of good efforts on goal had he found himself in the right channel, possibly even scoring from this positions.

Interestingly, he had the second highest pass % of the whole team last night.

This weakness of his is especially frustrating because he makes a lot of good runs but once he gets there before the defender, they usually manage to either catch up and/or make him not get a shot off. You even see Bruno realise this and he sometimes just tries to get a free kick because that's the best he can hope for.

 

[El Jefe]

If anything, his versatility is a big plus for Amorin. Him and Diallo are the only players to have consistently produced good performances in two different positions. So here we are again. A manager quickly realising Bruno has qualities the team desperately needs - and is hence, undroppable - while assorted caftards loudly proclaim he’s the reason this team can never be any good and he must immediately be dropped.

Do you find Bruno to be a natural fit in the long term at CM or the No.10 positions?

Well two things can be true can’t they? Bruno with the makeup of the squad is absolutely important and has qualities only he can provide but long term his style and limitations won’t get us to where we want to be. The conversation has always been moving away from Bruno rather than dropping him in this current team. Bruno is a player that is central to how a team plays.

Arsenal moved on from Ozil and Aubameyang, Liverpool sold Coutinho, Chelsea lost Hazard and they all got better the next season or the one after.

I still can’t believe that people can’t see how his limitations put a ceiling on how far this team can go with him as our main player. Especially when you watch the teams that are where we want to be.

 

[Scandi Red]

Bruno is a player that is central to how a team plays.

Bruno has been so central to how we play because he's so good. That does not mean that he must have 200 touches per game in order to function as intended. He would also benefit greatly from having better team mates (and management). It's early days still, but Amad has already started to offload Bruno and it has been clearly been good for him. Having Ugarte and Maz in the defensive build-up is certainly a big help too.

I still can’t believe that people can’t see how his limitations put a ceiling on how far this team can go with him as our main player.

This is a very narrow view of football. There are many ways to play and succeed.

And you are still basing your whole argument around Bruno being useless if the team isn't built around him, but this is clearly false.

 

[Ali Dia]

I don’t think he’s played poorly tonight. He just exposed his limitations in the role he was asked to play. If he had more Son Heung Min qualities, for example, the positions and situations he found himself in in the first half would probably have resulted in better. Because those are the qualities you want from someone playing that role in this formation. As a free-roaming 10, theoretically he will have Son ahead of him. And when he then releases this Son, the Son will then be expected to do the things Bruno couldn’t do tonight. Now he is the one being released. He doesn’t have strength, speed or dribbling, so it becomes something of a blunt instrument in that role. It would have been even worse if players like Romero and Van der Ven were playing, he’d have been completely dominated there, which isn’t his fault of course, because the role doesn’t suit his strengths.

I think he had a good game, or at least as good as can be expected, but I think it’s notable that Amorim has mainly moved him back since he’s come, and I don’t think he sees him as a front three player, rightly so, in my opinion. Now the question becomes is he a midfield two player. Not for a dominant side, in my opinion. So the solution pretty much presents itself here.

Interesting post. I do think if there was another creative midfielder behind him and a player giving width on the left he’d probably look a bit better in the left 10 with a tiny bit more space. I don’t see him as a central midfielder at all though unless he does a giggs (good) or a latter day Rooney (bad) I’d rather someone much more combative and yet still creative in there, that would help us dominate tight matches more. At home against smaller clubs I think it’s not as big of an issue

 

[Rozay]

Interesting post. I do think if there was another creative midfielder behind him and a player giving width on the left he’d probably look a bit better in the left 10 with a tiny bit more space. I don’t see him as a central midfielder at all though unless he does a giggs (good) or a latter day Rooney (bad) I’d rather someone much more combative and yet still creative in there, that would help us dominate tight matches more. At home against smaller clubs I think it’s not as big of an issue

In theory he would look better, or WE would look better, but on a personal level - the same issue would apply to him. He won’t be able to provide the penetrative play regardless of the set up because the skill set isn’t suited to it, however, all that might happen with what you described is that the penetration will come from the ‘player giving width on the left’. A player who will essentially be a full back and perhaps not the player we want as the last man running behind or 1v1 on a consistent basis. We are seeing that we are really struggling with the fact that a high percentage of our promising situations are falling to Diogo Dalot. He is a defender.

 

[Pickle85]

Bruno has been so central to how we play because he's so good. That does not mean that he must have 200 touches per game in order to function as intended. He would also benefit greatly from having better team mates (and management). It's early days still, but Amad has already started to offload Bruno and it has been clearly been good for him. Having Ugarte and Maz in the defensive build-up is certainly a big help too.



This is a very narrow view of football. There are many ways to play and succeed.

And you are still basing your whole argument around Bruno being useless if the team isn't built around him, but this is clearly false.

It's honestly pointless arguing the toss with some. Bruno could start playing with the ball retention, press resistance and pass accuracy of prime Xavi and some would still find fault. People are too dug in. I find it baffling as well that the answer to our success to so many is to sell our best player, particularly when coach after coach have seen him as invaluable, but you just can't change some minds.

 

[NZT-One]

If anything, his versatility is a big plus for Amorin. Him and Diallo are the only players to have consistently produced good performances in two different positions. So here we are again. A manager quickly realising Bruno has qualities the team desperately needs - and is hence, undroppable - while assorted caftards loudly proclaim he’s the reason this team can never be any good and he must immediately be dropped.

Sounds plausible but it also might be interpreting too much into something. Bruno was one of the better players of this squad since Ole. So nothing really changed on that front - which is also a damning judgement on our recruitment. He also is available all the time (which obviously is a bonus) and he plays in areas of the pitch where the general quality of output is terrible. Amorim would be crazy to drop him as long as there isn't anybody to take over the spot. It is just that the quality of the Brunos teammates don't really change his skillset or his "quality".

I think, those things are just as plausible to say than what you did - both things will be true to certain extents. And for what its worth, everybody who indicates we just have to take him out of the team to finally play better is crazy. We should change the way we play fundamentally and when Bruno can still contribute in a new role, then he can keep his place in the squad.

Bruno has been so central to how we play because he's so good. That does not mean that he must have 200 touches per game in order to function as intended. He would also benefit greatly from having better team mates (and management). It's early days still, but Amad has already started to offload Bruno and it has been clearly been good for him. Having Ugarte and Maz in the defensive build-up is certainly a big help too.

Again, only highlights how important the perspective is. I didn't really notice much differences in his play with the one noticable exception that he doesn't feel so rushed so often. The emergence of Amad hasn't made Bruno better, I could get behind saying that his rather low form has gained some positive momentum, and Amad has made the team better, but not his team mates. Also Amad is a player most Bruno critics would have liked us to integrate way sooner, smart, dilligent, intricate dribbling. Adding more players like that, will improve us even more. Which was always the point of reconsidering everybody from the current squad - with no exception for Bruno.

This is a very narrow view of football. There are many ways to play and succeed.

And you are still basing your whole argument around Bruno being useless if the team isn't built around him, but this is clearly false.

Have to agree here though. But I think, when thinking about limitations we also have to consider that he isn't going to get younger and that really well managed team will and should bring in an understudy for a smooth transition.

It's honestly pointless arguing the toss with some. Bruno could start playing with the ball retention, press resistance and pass accuracy of prime Xavi and some would still find fault. People are too dug in. I find it baffling as well that the answer to our success to so many is to sell our best player, particularly when coach after coach have seen him as invaluable, but you just can't change some minds.

They are dug in, on both side on the fence though.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

It's honestly pointless arguing the toss with some. Bruno could start playing with the ball retention, press resistance and pass accuracy of prime Xavi and some would still find fault. People are too dug in. I find it baffling as well that the answer to our success to so many is to sell our best player, particularly when coach after coach have seen him as invaluable, but you just can't change some minds.

I mean this is such a disengenous post I don't even know where to start.

I'd certainly say I'm in the camp of "Bruno critic" over the years, but myself and the majority of people in the same train of thought all cite that his lack of press resistance and mobility/carrying on the ball is his biggest flaw as a player in his position. So if he suddenly because David Silva as a dribbler no one would find fault, and we'd all be ecstatic. As far as the idea of selling him goes, it's moreso the thought process of "he's going to be 31 and doesn't really fit ideally into this system, so if a big offer came in the summer it would be shrewd to take it instead of holding on until his decline". We aren't Liverpool with a Mo Salah situation where we'd be giving up our current best player and tossing away title hopes.

Doesn't matter because most discussion is pointless these days, but the obvious exaggeration gets old

 

[Pickle85]

I mean this is such a disengenous post I don't even know where to start.

And yet you still did...

 

[Pickle85]

Sounds plausible but it also might be interpreting too much into something. Bruno was one of the better players of this squad since Ole. So nothing really changed on that front - which is also a damning judgement on our recruitment. He also is available all the time (which obviously is a bonus) and he plays in areas of the pitch where the general quality of output is terrible. Amorim would be crazy to drop him as long as there isn't anybody to take over the spot. It is just that the quality of the Brunos teammates don't really change his skillset or his "quality".

I think, those things are just as plausible to say than what you did - both things will be true to certain extents. And for what its worth, everybody who indicates we just have to take him out of the team to finally play better is crazy. We should change the way we play fundamentally and when Bruno can still contribute in a new role, then he can keep his place in the squad.

Again, only highlights how important the perspective is. I didn't really notice much differences in his play with the one noticable exception that he doesn't feel so rushed so often. The emergence of Amad hasn't made Bruno better, I could get behind saying that his rather low form has gained some positive momentum, and Amad has made the team better, but not his team mates. Also Amad is a player most Bruno critics would have liked us to integrate way sooner, smart, dilligent, intricate dribbling. Adding more players like that, will improve us even more. Which was always the point of reconsidering everybody from the current squad - with no exception for Bruno.

Have to agree here though. But I think, when thinking about limitations we also have to consider that he isn't going to get younger and that really well managed team will and should bring in an understudy for a smooth transition.

They are dug in, on both side on the fence though.

I'm not on the fence, I'm fully supportive of the guy that's been our best player for seasons now.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

And yet you still did...

Was your point just to WUM then? Nice one I guess.

 

[Pickle85]

Was your point just to WUM then? Nice one I guess.

Nope but I can't see that this exchange is going to go anywhere so I'll leave you to it
Sorry if you were wound up by what I said.

 

[NZT-One]

I mean this is such a disengenous post I don't even know where to start.

I'd certainly say I'm in the camp of "Bruno critic" over the years, but myself and the majority of people in the same train of thought all cite that his lack of press resistance and mobility/carrying on the ball is his biggest flaw as a player in his position. So if he suddenly because David Silva as a dribbler no one would find fault, and we'd all be ecstatic. As far as the idea of selling him goes, it's moreso the thought process of "he's going to be 31 and doesn't really fit ideally into this system, so if a big offer came in the summer it would be shrewd to take it instead of holding on until his decline". We aren't Liverpool with a Mo Salah situation where we'd be giving up our current best player and tossing away title hopes.

Doesn't matter because most discussion is pointless these days, but the obvious exaggeration gets old

Well said. I mean, it is safe to say that there is so much overexaggeration in here, definitely on the critics side but also on the fanboy side. I mean, he gets lauded for stuff that would go unnoticed when it happens in other games and teams - and I get it but I certainly agree that it feels weird to always get presented with the same BS strawmans like "you wanna have him have 90% passing completion" or "he is our best player without him, we would go anywhere" when there is just lines and lines and lines of posts in here trying to bring the actual point across only for some whacko feeling the need to jump in front, and low key call other fans haters and agenda-inhabitants and act as if having their opinion is the only possible one to be a fan correctly.

But I guess it is the law of big groups and their inability to move away from false-dichotimies once they are established since they result in easy to overview premises, two sides, a good one and a bad one. It is a bit of a shame to see it happen in specific posters but I am fairly certain, they would say the same thing about specific posters on the other side of the fence as well.

I'm not on the fence, I'm fully supportive of the guy that's been our best player for seasons now.

You don't even notice it at this point, are you? Well there you go then.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

If anything, his versatility is a big plus for Amorin. Him and Diallo are the only players to have consistently produced good performances in two different positions. So here we are again. A manager quickly realising Bruno has qualities the team desperately needs - and is hence, undroppable - while assorted caftards loudly proclaim he’s the reason this team can never be any good and he must immediately be dropped.

Don't you know that some of the greatest managers graduated from the Caf? Pretty sure Guardolia was promoted from the newbies before landing the Barca job in 2008.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I wish more players were as bad as him. 16 G/A for such a crap player is remarkable.

 

[Pickle85]

Well said. I mean, it is safe to say that there is so much overexaggeration in here, definitely on the critics side but also on the fanboy side. I mean, he gets lauded for stuff that would go unnoticed when it happens in other games and teams - and I get it but I certainly agree that it feels weird to always get presented with the same BS strawmans like "you wanna have him have 90% passing completion" or "he is our best player without him, we would go anywhere" when there is just lines and lines and lines of posts in here trying to bring the actual point across only for some whacko feeling the need to jump in front, and low key call other fans haters and agenda-inhabitants and act as if having their opinion is the only possible one to be a fan correctly.

But I guess it is the law of big groups and their inability to move away from false-dichotimies once they are established since they result in easy to overview premises, two sides, a good one and a bad one. It is a bit of a shame to see it happen in specific posters but I am fairly certain, they would say the same thing about specific posters on the other side of the fence as well.

You don't even notice it at this point, are you? Well there you go then.

I don't even know what this means. Am I what?

You seem to think you're far cleverer than you actually are from recent posts. It's adorable.

 

[NZT-One]

I don't even know what this means. Am I what?

You seem to think you're far cleverer than you actually are from recent posts. It's adorable.

English isn't my native language but I am sure, if you would just try to understand, we can figure it out together.
"You don't even notice it at this point".

Whats causing the interpretation issues?

And thanks for the attempt to judge my cleverness based on posts on a football forum. Not sure what the need is for that but each to their own.

 

[Pickle85]

English isn't my native language but I am sure, if you would just try to understand, we can figure it out together.
"You don't even notice it at this point".

Whats causing the interpretation issues?

And thanks for the attempt to judge my cleverness based on posts on a football forum. Not sure what the need is for that but each to their own.

Apologies re the language thing, I didn't realize and you speak much better English than I speak any other language.

 

[Based Adnan]

Doesn't suit the number 10 position in this system and doesn't suit playing deeper. Bench him already instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Such a bad performance, everything rushed.

 

[Skills]

He's a big, big reason why what should be close losses or possible results turn into humiliations.

 

[Red Devil 26]

I'm bored.

 

[TempusFugit]

Lacks the athleticism to play in midfield or further up front. Too slow, too weak. Needs to be taken off set pieces as well. Ideally he'd be a sub, but personally I'd sell him this summer and bring in another midfielder. His passing/finishing is very erratic as well. Top class to league 2 level in 2 actions.