yet our best game this season is when he was not playing and we played with better game control against Crystal Palace. other players will step up and assume the responsibility to create. the fact is we are not playing well as a unit. We don't need crazy individual stats. Odegaard makes Arsenal play better without those crazy stats because he is very consistent in everything he does. he mostly makes correct decisions. he is a complete opposite of Bruno. Bruno scatter gun approach of playing football is the big reason why we don't control games. Most players will rank those crazy stats if they play like Bruno. Casemiro is a living example of that.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 13
- Yellow cards
- 12
- Status
Well, okay.
Creating the most chances in a game does not make you the best player on the pitch by default. James McAtee created only one less chance, but is he crucial to Sheffield?
Bruno gave the ball away 27 times. That is 27 times that Sheffield got the ball back and had the opportunity to do something with the ball. One of the times he lost the ball, they scored. The other time, they got a huge chance that Onana saved. He does this every single game. He loses possession, gives the ball away or makes an awful pass and gifts the opponent the ball. Then you talk about how our biggest problem is how we defend, so surely you see the correlation of giving the ball away constantly with a poor defense? Defenders cannot always stop attacks, so when you have a player that constantly gives the ball to the opposition, sooner or later they will score. We concede goals every single game. That is because we have no control of a game, and most of the action is just random with no clear plan or structure. It is a terrible way to play football, especially if you want to compete with the best teams.
Then you mention how he created most of our chances, which he did, but ask yourself; how many chances did he potentially waste by giving the ball away 27 times? What could have happened if we had built up an attack, or he gave it to Rashford, Antony, Højlund, or even waited for an opportunity instead of consistently forcing passes that aren't there? De Bruyne is a good example because he is a similar player, but he doesn't give the ball away needlessly when there is a microscopic chance a pass will succeed. He is an intelligent player with excellent timing and execution, unlike Bruno, who just reacts instinctively without thinking. As if he is in panic and looks to create a chance, no matter the cost or consequence of his action. It truly is pathetic, and an absolutely awful performance. Newcastle won 8-0 against this lot, but you don't see them having one player who they rely on to create chances, because it isn't a very effective way to play great football.
I think it's better to think about this part not as what else could he have done but rather what is his risk/reward profile as a player. How many of those passes where he lost the ball were him making bad decisions or making a poor pass, some of them are likely not his fault i.e. the player he passes to stops a run or something but I would imagine there is a high % of him making errors in there. Then you can judge how wasteful he is more accurately.
Worth saying his assist for McT was terrible technically, sidefooted it at him from a few metres away at chest height.
Seeing as my question was ignored, here’s the first player I checked.
Martin Odegaard
| Games | Goals | Assists | ||
| City | 8 | 0 | 0 | |
| MUFC | 6 | 2 | 1 | |
| Chelsea | 5 | 2 | 1 | |
| Liverpool | 6 | 0 | 1 | |
| Spurs | 6 | 2 | 0 | |
| TOTAL | 31 | 6 | 3 |
0.19 goals/game (vs 0.24 goals/game from Bruno)
O.10 assists/game (vs 0.18 assists/game from Bruno)
So, conclusively worse than Bruno in terms of scoring/assisting against big teams (and hates a game against Liverpool even more than Bruno). An analysis which is supposed to highlight one of Bruno’s main weaknesses, right? Am I missing something?
Or are you just trying to point out that it’s difficult to be prolific against the big teams. In which case, point proven.
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I would argue that big teams is very debatable, Chelsea and Liverpool have been really poor at times.
Sure. Although Liverpool tend to always turn up against United, annoyingly enough. And including United as a “big team” for Odegaard is doing him a big favour, considering how many goals we’ve conceded against big teams in the last few seasons.
My problem with with Bruno is that he doesn't do well when pressed. He favours counter attacking because he doesn't have to keep the ball but when the game requires tact and calmness under pressure he struggles. Many times when a few extra seconds holding the ball or run would have have been better he just rushes a pass. You can't knock his creative numbers because they are worldclass but he needs to learn to manage games better. The hallmark of great playmakers is that they set the tempo of play. They are smart enough to know when to speed things up or slow them down.
Liverpool? We've beaten them twice in the last 6 and lost 4 and 3 of those losses were humiliating defeats.
I don't want to be calling for him to be dropped, but we'd have much better control of games without him or in a less pivotal role in our build up
The other guy did break it down by penalty and non pen goals. In the last 3 and a bit years, Sakas taken 2 penalties vs Spurs, 1 vs Man Utd, Chelsea and City. If Odergaard took them, you could guesstimate him scoring atleast half of them.
Also, its been discussed to death that Brunos stats hide his general play. Last game he got an assist so in a months time it would be remembered as “Bruno played a role in getting us ahead in the game, he was decent” when in reality he was bad yet again.
Someone asked a question which I responded to — mostly because I was also interested, really. I didn’t post that unprovoked or of my own accord - it was prompted by the post I quoted. There was no analysis other than me pointing out that he clearly seems to struggle against Liverpool.
Overall, I think 14 G/A (10 non pen) isn’t bad in the grand scheme of things. I’m also not surprised he has a better rate than Odegaard. Goals and assists are Fernandes main strength, whilst Odegaard is definitely more about general play (aside from last season where he channeled some weird goalscoring patch).
Maybe a comparison with De Bruyne - a player who thrives on G/A and chance creation stats similar to Bruno would be a better comparison? Could be worth checking the stats there to say how he fares.
Not his biggest fan, far from it, but I will admit aiming the ball at McTominay’s neck was an interesting choice, and it fecking worked.
Will be interesting to see when he gets dropped as the last time was when Carrick took charge in his first game.
So 5 penalties? Add 3 goals to Odegaard’s tally? Is that fair? Takes him very fractionally ahead of Bruno’s goals/game. Still worse when you compare assists.
And I really don’t want to get into the debate about whether Bruno’s flaws in possession outweigh his productivity. It’s been done to death. And it’s a discussion that constantly ignores all the graft he puts in when not in possession. Anyhoo. The only reason I posted those stats was to address the implication that Bruno is uniquely non-productive against big teams. Which, as you can see, has been proven to be fictional bollox. Which this thread is full of.
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Goes down as an assist, could have been attempted murder, they are the fine lines in elite sport.
De Bruyne was going to be next on my list but I a) got tired of typing and b) assumed his stats would be miles better without needing to check, considering how frequently City thrash the big teams. So not exactly a fair comparison.
Maybe Maddison would be a better comparison? Bagsy not!
Bruno has been largely shite performance wise against the big teams.
Thats why we'll never win a title with him. If you build around Bruno you forfeit control. It's not a coincidence that's he's usually completely shit against good teams because he has less time on the ball.
It’s hard watching Maddison right now. He’s capable of joining up play, carrying the ball and scoring and assisting
I get repulsed towards the idea of having Bruno whilst Spurs getting an obvious dangling gem of a player in Maddison! What is worse is that we brought Mount for twice the amount.
I feel that we will never get rid of Bruno, and that idea kills me as Ten Hag is blind to how crap he is compared to his peers.
I feel that we will never get rid of Bruno, and that idea kills me as Ten Hag is blind to how crap he is compared to his peers.
Pogue is an absolute meme in this thread. Around thousand posts in the Pogba thread; how he loses the ball all the time, doesn't offer creativity, how toxic he is, and a bad influence to the rest of the players.
Somehow, Bruno is a deity in his eyes. It is seriously bizarre and I will never understand it. Someone who do understand, can you please tell me how you can think Pogba is a shit player who was awful for us, but simultaneously think Bruno is the best player and be considered flawless?
It's as if he is afraid to admit he is wrong, and would rather stand his ground no matter how bad Bruno performs
Somehow, Bruno is a deity in his eyes. It is seriously bizarre and I will never understand it. Someone who do understand, can you please tell me how you can think Pogba is a shit player who was awful for us, but simultaneously think Bruno is the best player and be considered flawless?
It's as if he is afraid to admit he is wrong, and would rather stand his ground no matter how bad Bruno performs
He’s trolling.Pogue is an absolute meme in this thread. Around thousand posts in the Pogba thread; how he loses the ball all the time, doesn't offer creativity, how toxic he is, and a bad influence to the rest of the players.
Somehow, Bruno is a deity in his eyes. It is seriously bizarre and I will never understand it. Someone who do understand, can you please tell me how you can think Pogba is a shit player who was awful for us, but simultaneously think Bruno is the best player and be considered flawless?
It's as if he is afraid to admit he is wrong, and would rather stand his ground no matter how bad Bruno performs
Pogue is an absolute meme in this thread. Around thousand posts in the Pogba thread; how he loses the ball all the time, doesn't offer creativity, how toxic he is, and a bad influence to the rest of the players.
Somehow, Bruno is a deity in his eyes. It is seriously bizarre and I will never understand it. Someone who do understand, can you please tell me how you can think Pogba is a shit player who was awful for us, but simultaneously think Bruno is the best player and be considered flawless?
It's as if he is afraid to admit he is wrong, and would rather stand his ground no matter how bad Bruno performs
Yeah, I’m the meme in this thread. The absolute fecking state of you. Seek help.
Yeah, I’m the meme in this thread. The absolute fecking state of you. Seek help.
Seek help, said the lad with one hundred and thirty thousand posts on an internet forum because I have 293 posts in a certain thread
Alright then!Rooney scored 45 and assisted 17 in 129 games (0,48 G+A/game) against the same big 5 as a forward for a much better United team.
You can compare Bruno a bit with Ziyech at Ajax. Criticised by many for being wasteful with his shooting and taking too much risk with his passing at times, but loved by most for his creative brilliance. Very often the best player on the pitch and one of the most important components in Ajax’ success while there.
Players like Bruno doesn’t come around very often and can be frustrating to watch when not clicking, but are so important with their extreme qualities in the end product department. As long as he works as hard as he does every time he’s on the pitch, you just have to give him the freedom to be creative and sometimes wasteful with the ball.
Seek help, said the lad with one hundred and thirty thousand posts on an internet forum because I have 293 posts in a certain thread
whats the point in bringing up his post count? Who care if he has 100 or 100 million.
I say lean into it and go for trebling the next highest post count in the thread. That'll show Bruno.Seek help, said the lad with one hundred and thirty thousand posts on an internet forum because I have 293 posts in a certain thread
Pot calling kettle. The lack of self awareness you have makes for mind-blowing stuff.Seek help, said the lad with one hundred and thirty thousand posts on an internet forum because I have 293 posts in a certain thread
Why does he care if I have 50 posts here or 293?
I still maintain in a stable midfield, he will thrive. On the two occasions we did, he did.
When he arrived, with Fred and McTominay behind him, he set the house on fire. Fred and McTominay may not be the best base of midfield, but they were stable and performed their roles well enough for the front four to excel.
With Casemiro and Fred last season, he performed really well and played a more composed role in the team. So, there's definitely no way it can be said he can't do it.
However, a lot of our problems this season, which started from last, originate from our No. 6 going off the rails. Casemiro takes a large responsibility in the complete absence of midfield we have lately.
Bruno looks like he is vastly trying to overcompensate for all the deficiencies at the moment, which is both a good and bad thing.
I hardly think we should be looking at replacing a key player for us in recent years before repairing the rest of a broken team is the way to go. It's also key that the manager trusts him and seems to want to build around him, as was clear when he made him captain. I'm willing to wait it out. We have many other worse problems in the team than Bruno Fernandes, if indeed he is a problem.
When he arrived, with Fred and McTominay behind him, he set the house on fire. Fred and McTominay may not be the best base of midfield, but they were stable and performed their roles well enough for the front four to excel.
With Casemiro and Fred last season, he performed really well and played a more composed role in the team. So, there's definitely no way it can be said he can't do it.
However, a lot of our problems this season, which started from last, originate from our No. 6 going off the rails. Casemiro takes a large responsibility in the complete absence of midfield we have lately.
Bruno looks like he is vastly trying to overcompensate for all the deficiencies at the moment, which is both a good and bad thing.
I hardly think we should be looking at replacing a key player for us in recent years before repairing the rest of a broken team is the way to go. It's also key that the manager trusts him and seems to want to build around him, as was clear when he made him captain. I'm willing to wait it out. We have many other worse problems in the team than Bruno Fernandes, if indeed he is a problem.
I am starting to dislike Bruno every time he is in the starting 11 despite another horrid performance. He’s been a good player for us but we got to stop justifying his place in the team just because he is apparently our most creative player, it shouldn’t gloss over the fact his performances have been shocking all season.
The way I see it is if he was as good as many claim surely a top European club would be in for him since United don’t actually challenge for trophies and consistently make Europe.
The way I see it is if he was as good as many claim surely a top European club would be in for him since United don’t actually challenge for trophies and consistently make Europe.
I couldn’t give a bollix. I just find it absolutely incredible that you could accuse anyone else of being a meme in this thread, of all threads, when it’s so insanely polluted with your hundreds of shite takes. Honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen another thread so completely dominated by one person. You’ve made nearly as many posts as the next three most prolific contributors combined!Mind you, your partner in crime the second most prolific poster in this thread, ran you close when he used to spam the living shit out of every Pogba performance thread. But at least he wasn’t the number one contributor due to hundreds of posts about how much he hates a player at the club he supports! Which is a truly bizarre way to spend your time on here. It’s like some sort of illness. As I said, seek help.
Good post. Agreed. I think the captain thing may be a factor in the overcompensation. So may go down as a poor decision by the manager. Time will tell.
Him expanding his hand while not in full control of the ball asking a certain player to be in a certain position and then after making the pass, complaining regardless of the outcome is excruciating.
When he arrived, opposition teams weren't really worried about us doing anything in a match. They had a go at us, not just in away games but also in our homegames. When Ole took over, not only were the other playes obviously relieved to get rid of that raincloud that Mou has been before, but he also set us up to be more compact and make use of pacey attackers. It worked a charm. Bruno started very well, scoring and assisting like crazy. Don't want to take that away from him. But that was not only because "McFred were really stable in behind him". We more often than not played on the counter (not to criticise, it made absolute sense to do so) but Brunos output wasn't as stellar when opposition teams learned the lesson and stopped giving us room anymore. From then on, we were forced to handle the ball better - a challenge that broke the former manager had an effect on the form of multiple forwards.
The notion, that we just have to be solid so Bruno can finally shine again, is misleading. He will always provide assists but at a certain cost. Some teams are capable of paying that, I'd say we are not.
edit: I agree, the captaincy seems to be something that isn't helping him nor anybody else.
I'd drop him. Bad performances have to have consequences.
I would deffo drop this guy... instead play with Eriksen and Mount as the 2 cm's, with Amrabat behind them as dm.
Mind you, your partner in crime the second most prolific poster in this thread, ran you close when he used to spam the living shit out of every Pogba performance thread. But at least he wasn’t the number one contributor due to hundreds of posts about how much he hates a player at the club he supports! Which is a truly bizarre way to spend your time on here. It’s like some sort of illness. As I said, seek help.
Aren't you a doctor? You want me to seek help because I don't rate a player in a football team and as a result, I reply to posters in this thread who disagree with me? Eeh..? Very odd behaviour from a doctor.
Why does it matter if I have over twice as many posts as the next poster? There are constantly posters like you that reply, so I reply back. What's the big deal? My posts aren't about how I hate Bruno, they're mostly replies to posters like you. In fact, half my posts on here aren't even about Bruno.
Tell me what's shite takes about what I post. Everything I post is shit according to you, just because my posts don't favour Bruno. I'd imagine my posts would be fantastic if I praised Bruno every game. If you can't see the legitimate concerns posters have regarding Bruno, then football isn't for you.
Let me ask you something. Why is it perfectly okay for you to dislike a player and have a lot of posts in his player performance thread, but for me it's not? You have done the exact same thing in the Pogba thread, so what's the difference?
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He literally played two games with those two behind him and we drew both. The run of games where we picked up loads of points and played well, we had the stability of Matic and Pogba behind him and also Martial, Rashford, Greenwood ahead of him. But that is a looong time ago now.
There are only a few way to explain why you have such an overwhelmingly large portion of the posts in this thread.Seek help, said the lad with one hundred and thirty thousand posts on an internet forum because I have 293 posts in a certain thread
You are:
- the village idiot who screams the loudest and wants to respond to everyone
- agenda driven and want to control the narrative
- obsessive and compulsive
- Status