Arsenal did not play well, and if we had Bruno today the result would've been better. We look clueless in the attack without Bruno.
8
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- 13
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You think Bruno instead of McTominay yesterday makes us worse?!
I don't think McTominay is anywhere near the level needed to get the club back to where we are so it's a moot comparison.
But I think Bruno in a team makes us far more open, liable to lose the ball when under the cosh and takes away a massive element of control from the game. Yeah sure, we might have had a chance or two more but from 1-0 down he'd have undoubtedly have given them the ball back about 10 times - as has happened in several games this season where we've been beaten heavily
The performances in the last two games with both Mason Mount and then McTominay in the 10 role, reminded me of the before-times before Bruno, starting either Lingard or Pereira in that position week-in week-out.
Things can get bleaker.
Things can get bleaker.
Yes, we were toothless in attack and never looked like scoring, but what if the biggest chance creator in the league was there to play a risky pass?? Sure - we may have created more than two tame pot shots from Antony and Casemiro, but think of the lack of control!
I don’t think anyone who’s advocating for Bruno to be sold is saying we’d be better off selling him and replacing him with existing players. I’m pretty sure no Manchester United fan argues that.
The point is to replace Bruno, and our midfield really in the market to rebuild a more controlled unit both in and out of possession.
This is how you end up with Donny van de Beek.
Think Bruno would've had a field day yesterday.
With that type of mentality we’d never replace any player.
We need variety in attacks not just Bruno. For whatever reason our wingers and full backs dont cross nearly enough.
I really dont understand why people completely absolve Ten Hag of blame by saying Bruno is the reason we lack control. Its utter madness.
Get a coach in that values possession and proper movement and patterns of play and we will instantly look more composed and in control, and Bruno will probably have twice the amount of assists because players will actually know how to move for each other.
Exactly. On multiple occasions, Bruno has proven that he's capable of taking on instructions and playing the role that the manager has asked. I assume people who think Bruno does whatever he likes also believe that Onana isn't being instructed to pump those 70 yard long balls to Dalot which forces our full back out of position. These players look worse than what they are because the manager is setting the team up to play a kamikaze style of football.
It was pretty evident yesterday that we were missing Bruno as the team played pass the buck for the last 15 minutes in front of Arsenal's defence. The ball would have found its way into the box about 10 passes sooner in each attack if Bruno were there as he would have created an opening for it. The rest of them didn't have a clue what to do. Even Eriksen was infuriatingly passing it off to Kambwala in the dying minutes.
Because they're selfish. The only thoughts in Garnacho and Rashford's heads when they get the ball is "Beat 3 players and shoot from the edge of the box."
Two idiots who have grew up thinking they can be Ronaldo and the teams of yes people around them have fortified the idea.
Watch how they play, they only pass the ball when they are in trouble and 9 times out of 10 there is no movement after their pass, just childish frustration they couldn't beat multiple players
Our best signing post Sir Alex by a mile. Frustrating to watch at times but not for a lack of trying.
A bit harsh on Garnacho. Look at his role in Amad's winner vs Liverpool. However I agree that Rashford rarely looks for the pass these days.
Shame he’s got injured just as he came into top form again. Just about sums up our season though and it’s why the injuries for us have been worse than other teams in the league. Our best players have got injured either just as they get into form, or just when you think a partnership can form. It’s been crippling.
You know it's bad when even Bruno gets injured. He'll have missed 3 games counting Newcastle and that's most in his professional career.
It's not a moot comparison when you say swapping Bruno for McTominay yesterday would change the game from a narrow defeat to a hammering.
I think that warrants a questioning.
All someone has to do is perform better than the current incumbent, it's not rocket science.
Otherwise you end up with turds like Donny van de Beek, who can't manage a starting place at Everton or Eintracht Frankfurt, starting for us.
Just a general reminder: this whole "evaluate players into two categories - good and bad" isn't really helping us. Depending on the way your teams wants to play, you have to bring in the players who have the most fitting skillset. Look around, players like Bruno aren't really in the top teams anymore. Modern 10s have broader skillsets, especially in terms of close control. For more modern systems, this is a needed quality. I think, it is safe to say that the majority on here wants us to change styles - therefor current players have to be evaluated for the roles they will have to play then.
"Player X is the best, thats why we can't replace him" - while understandable, it doesn't really have the most of substance and to a degree is probably one of the reasons why we maneuvered ourselves (as a team) in such a deadend in the first place. We clinged on many players because we thought they would be good players, world class players. Even though putting them on the team sheet always affected the way we would have to play or which way wasn't really an option. This is where the actual root level question comes up: is it possible to have Bruno play a different way without him losing his effectiveness... Many different answers to this question I guess.
Just FYI, there is so much talk about the behaviour of posters in this thread, flooding it with criticism after a bad game and all this bla bla. Now we have talk in this thread, mostly from his fans, how good he is, while not having played a minute of the last two games. Maybe that thought will do a thing to keep a bit of perspective.
It's almost as we've seen how we played without Bruno, and it was even more utter shite, with not one single big chance created in either game.
The worst two performances of the season came with Mason Mount starting in the 10 role, with the 0-3 home loss against Newcastle and a 0-4 loss against Crystal Palace.
Proven beyond all doubt how important he is now after seeing the last two games, to anyone sensible.
It’s funny to see that the myth about Bruno not being good in a team that controls still exists, and that maybe selling him will turn this team into prime Barcelona.
I had quick look on Fbref to compare passing stats of Bruno and De Bruyne since Bruno joined United and their pass completion is almost the same. Even their expected assists are similar (the level of assists is vastly different though, which tells us more about the difference between United and City’s finishing than between the Bruno and KdB).
Where I will agree is that Bruno is not a deep-lying playmaker, which means he’s not comfortable in receiving the ball deep in his half. But he’s by no means not suited to a team that tries to control the game.
Control is not because of one player, and one player alone is not responsible for lack of control during a game. To have control you first need to have a solid defensive base, and the squad needs to have a high technical floor. As of now, we are too limited technically to exert any kind of control, with or without Bruno. But without Bruno you’re definitely lacking one of the best creators out there
I had quick look on Fbref to compare passing stats of Bruno and De Bruyne since Bruno joined United and their pass completion is almost the same. Even their expected assists are similar (the level of assists is vastly different though, which tells us more about the difference between United and City’s finishing than between the Bruno and KdB).
Where I will agree is that Bruno is not a deep-lying playmaker, which means he’s not comfortable in receiving the ball deep in his half. But he’s by no means not suited to a team that tries to control the game.
Control is not because of one player, and one player alone is not responsible for lack of control during a game. To have control you first need to have a solid defensive base, and the squad needs to have a high technical floor. As of now, we are too limited technically to exert any kind of control, with or without Bruno. But without Bruno you’re definitely lacking one of the best creators out there
For me it’s not about saying that Mount or Mctominay replacing Bruno shows how much we miss him. Neither of those players are the number 10 or creative fulcrum we need.
As good as Fernandes has and can be his level of consistency has been erratic for at least 2 years now. Goal and assists stats don’t cover for giving to ball away sloppily in middle of the park. If he conceded possession attempting to provide assists this can be legislated for, however it’s not always the case. This isn’t down to either the manager or the players around him.
All players should be critiqued or called out as each other. Or praised. I like my number 10 to hold the ball better than Bruno currently does, give the ball away less and help open teams up without necessarily being the final assist provider. He has proved in the past he can be more controlled in his approach. I’d like to see this side of his game more.
As good as Fernandes has and can be his level of consistency has been erratic for at least 2 years now. Goal and assists stats don’t cover for giving to ball away sloppily in middle of the park. If he conceded possession attempting to provide assists this can be legislated for, however it’s not always the case. This isn’t down to either the manager or the players around him.
All players should be critiqued or called out as each other. Or praised. I like my number 10 to hold the ball better than Bruno currently does, give the ball away less and help open teams up without necessarily being the final assist provider. He has proved in the past he can be more controlled in his approach. I’d like to see this side of his game more.
We've had him all season yet we are where we are in terms of results and productiveness. Those things can always to turned around. Also nobody denied his importance to the current United. But nobody wants this current United side to persist.
You are either really bad at reading comprehension or you have vivid dialogues happening in your head. I haven't seen that claim in here. And unfortunately, I am a regular visitor of the thread.
Could have saved yourself the time as that was already established a while ago. Plus the fact that pass completion isn't really adding anything useful when talking about 10-ish players. But here we are, once again. Nice to see someone "from the other side" riding the dead horse in here once again.
Generally I agree. Last sentence: even with him our attack isn't really productive. Seems as if you don't need one of the best creators out there. Which is the main point of his critics. But I guess, I can save myself the time to explain that once again.
Your reply could have been good to initiate a debate without your condescending tone
You have made up your mind about Bruno a while ago so I won’t bother going further in explaining how and why I disagree with you.
Have a good evening mate
I didn't say anything about swapping Bruno for McTominay. I think Bruno in any position in that team makes it more likely that we get absolutely hammered - probably worse if McTominay is also in because he's an absolutely nothing player in general game play.
The only position where I think playing Bruno yesterday would have led to less turnovers, given away balls and chances for the opposition is if he'd have gone up top instead of Hojlund. But that's nothing to do with McTominay and everything to do with Bruno's skillset and tendency to perform like he's juggling a hot potato whenever we are under pressure
Same to you Mate
Be ensured, it wasn't personal, we all get triggered by this or that and some of your starting points felt really out of order to me.
McTominay was in Bruno's position. He directly replaced Bruno.
So if you think having Bruno in results in us getting hammered that game it would naturally be instead of McTominay i.e. the No.10 position. Bruno's position.
Take out any of the midfield 3 or the two wide men and put Bruno in and I reckon that we'd have been far more open with his weird one man press and Hollywood spamming the ball yes. And the likely result would be more goals for Arsenal, still no goals for us but plenty of opportunities for people to point at the fact he created 4 chances and ignore he gave the ball away 10 times in dangerous areas for us
Plenty of evidence of it this year - the Bournemouth 3-0 being one, where we were getting battered by a not that good team and he just relentlessly played hopeful diagonals that they easily got and then came up the pitch and battered us
Let me guess you're one of people who think the likes of Hojlund are good enough for the club.
With Bruno I always wonder if he would be as highly regarded if he was playing in a Sir Alex team. There is no denying his contribution and overall attacking vision but I can’t help feel that he benefited somewhat from being part of a poor team set up. His contributions were that much more obvious.
This chance created obsession with Bruno really does my head in. I think it has even got into his head. Every time he gets the ball, you can almost see his mind going, create chance, create chance, create chance... no matter where on the pitch he is or the situation the team is in. This is why he ends up spamming low percentage balls all across the field that more often than not disrupt our play and prevent us from building momentum. Casemiro also seems to have been infected with this nonsense.
In a cohesive team, chance creation will come from different parts of the team depending on the game situation. The fact that one or two guys think it's only up to them to open up teams is a sign of a dysfunctional team rather than being a good stat to boast about.
In a cohesive team, chance creation will come from different parts of the team depending on the game situation. The fact that one or two guys think it's only up to them to open up teams is a sign of a dysfunctional team rather than being a good stat to boast about.
You make it sound like we have cohesive team but somehow one or two players are disrupting it.
What has his chance creation been like this season? I cant think of a single game him and Hojlund connected well.
He's great, at creating, at scoring, but also of giving the ball away. Generally, however, I think we are way too reliant on him, which either stifles the other players or makes them lazy and basically wait for him to do it all, or simply highlights how bad they are as a individuals who cannot force their qualities sufficiently on the game. He so often has no choice but to take control. The only other player on his level, or looking like he could reach a similar level, where passing creativity and overall football intellgence is concerned is Mainoo for me. We have not much else in the midfield, though perhaps Mount cannot yet be judged given his lack of playing time this season. We have wingers and full backs who are quite basic frankly and don't really seem to be quick enough to create openings with quick one twos. Our whole game is slow and plodding and needs his creativity because there's little else. By keeping him, relying on him, I don't see this game style changing.
I'm just saying that his chance creation stats constantly thrown about are not proof of some kind of amazing player that has been carrying us during this torrid time.
I hope we can build a cohesive team, but Bruno's individualistic play style for most of his time here is certainly not an indication that he would be a good fit for it.
Man Utd 3:2 Newcastle
Heartbeat. What a player
Should not be sold at any cost- he’s our only truly world class player.
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