[Gordon Godot]

What annoys me more than anything about this Bruno slander since the weekend is the manager has to take most of the blame for playing him on the left wing.

It might not excuse his whining and playacting but the manager set us up to fail at the weekend. Anfield is no place to start experimenting. And I love this manager but he needs to have a good long hard look at himself too for those ridiculous tactics. Weghorst at 10 and Bruno on left didn't work at all. It was absolutely to the detriment of our team and also allowed Trent a free ride too.

Let's not make this about Bruno. The whole team was crap and so was the manager. The worst result in our entire history you could argue. Absolutely still fuming about it.

I think this was the first major fail on the part of ETH. It didnt work and should have changed at half time, they were clearly there to be taken on the break. Weghorst is a complete failure and should not start another match this season. Its on the Glazers that they refused to strengthen in Jan and allowed one of main targets to go to a rival, and we dont have great options. But even Elanga would be more of a threat. Just runnign around a bit is not the critera to play for us. He cant even win a header. Dalot also poor and against Liverpool wide players AWB would have been far better.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I think this was the first major fail on the part of ETH. It didnt work and should have changed at half time, they were clearly there to be taken on the break. Weghorst is a complete failure and should not start another match this season. Its on the Glazers that they refused to strengthen in Jan and allowed one of main targets to go to a rival, and we dont have great options. But even Elanga would be more of a threat. Just runnign around a bit is not the critera to play for us. He cant even win a header. Dalot also poor and against Liverpool wide players AWB would have been far better.

I don't think we could spend in January anyway due to FFP. We are dangerously close to the threshold apparently because contrary to what some Utd fans think.....we actually spend fortunes on players under the Glazers. It's usually the wrong ones granted but the money is spent.

One of the biggest reasons why they need to leave too. They haven't hired people below them who know what they are doing.

 

[hmchan]

The point is he wasn’t pretending to be hit on the face, after being hit on his chest. Which was the narrative from the commentators (repeated by a lot of our fans)

Thought I had entered Keane/Neville performance thread. Exaggerating injury, arguing all the time, losing temper, no composure when behind, standing there and giving up, any of them alone may not be necessarily a poor quality, but altogether they make the last candidate you want as a captain. You wouldn't need commentators to tell you these and they don't just happen in this single game. I don't see the point diverting the discussion to the pundits.

Like I've said in #4797, this is the Bruno performance thread, not a Keane/Neville performance thread. I don't see why people care so much about what commentators said instead of what the player actually did, unless they are trying to divert the discussion because they can't defend the exaggeration. For a foreign fan who hasn't listened to the commentators, this thread has become a circus, like the player himself.

 

[JuriM]

I think this was the first major fail on the part of ETH. It didnt work and should have changed at half time, they were clearly there to be taken on the break. Weghorst is a complete failure and should not start another match this season. Its on the Glazers that they refused to strengthen in Jan and allowed one of main targets to go to a rival, and we dont have great options. But even Elanga would be more of a threat. Just runnign around a bit is not the critera to play for us. He cant even win a header. Dalot also poor and against Liverpool wide players AWB would have been far better.

Not a Weghorst topic btw. And he was a masterstroke with the funds we had on our hands.

 

[humdinger]

Bruno is being hung out to dry by these agendas in the media. I get annoyed by his histrionics and think he shouldn’t be captain but he’s being unfairly pilloried over the ref “push” and arm to the face incident.

 

[Lyng]

Bruno is being hung out to dry by these agendas in the media. I get annoyed by his histrionics and think he shouldn’t be captain but he’s being unfairly pilloried over the ref “push” and arm to the face incident.

This I agree with completely. He gently moved the ref because he was in his way of the ball. Calling it a push is madness. And the face incident is insane given Robertsons reaction to a light tap on the shoulder earlier in the game.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Like I've said in #4797, this is the Bruno performance thread, not a Keane/Neville performance thread. I don't see why people care so much about what commentators said instead of what the player actually did, unless they are trying to divert the discussion because they can't defend the exaggeration. For a foreign fan who hasn't listened to the commentators, this thread has become a circus, like the player himself.

I don’t know why you can’t understand the difference between exaggerating contact and faking contact that never happened? There’s a huge and obvious difference. Because footballers - all footballers - constantly exaggerate contact for the benefit of the referee. It’s a complete non event. Happens multiple times in every single game. Sometimes they get criticised for not exaggerating enough “he should have gone down there”. This particular incident only blew up because of a false narrative about Bruno pretending he had been hit in the face when he wasn’t.

 

[kouroux]

Not a Weghorst topic btw. And he was a masterstroke with the funds we had on our hands.

Masterstroke ??

 

[Licha-Vidic]

As sad as it maybe,

He is the embodiment of what United has been in the last 3 years.
Transition football team.
Counter Attack team.
Zero midfield.
Zero control game.
Hiding during big games.
Whining, play acting,
When the going gets tougher we throw our hands up.
Talking about mentality and United way while being thrashed by rivals.


In the last few years 2-3 years the hammerings we have received...

Manutd 1 - 6 Spurs.
Manutd 2 - 4 Liverpool.
Leicester 4 - 2 Manutd.
Manutd 0 - 5 Liverpool.
Watford 4 -1 Manutd.
ManCity 4 - 1 Manutd.
Liverpool 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brighton 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brenford 4 - 0 Manutd.
ManCity 6 - 3 Manutd.
Liverpool 7 - 0 Manutd.


Funny thing Mourinho had I think one 4-0 defeat to Chelsea in Bridge. In all his limitations Mourinho was never hammered every 3 months.

It's after Ole, and Bruno signing that we have become exposed like hell in all this games..


Bruno has played in all these hammerings. I'm 99% certain he has played in all this games.
He the constant in all these hammerings.

We have
Changed managers Ole to Ralf to Ten Hag,
Changed defenders Maguire Lindelof to Varane Licha,
Changed midfielders McFred to Casemiro Eriksen
Changed non pressing striker Ronaldo with pressing WW

In this 3 year period, but still our big games have the same same tragectory in how it will end.

We've never won a cup in those 3 years till we need Ten Hag, Casemiro to get us through the line. A carabao cup.


How people can not see it, it's absolutely telling.

His stats of 41 goals in Premier League might look okay but remove the 14 penalties it's just 27 goals in 111 games.

In his 111 games he has won only 58 games. Just 52%.

He never misses games so take into account 38 game season.

38*52.2% = 19.8.
Meaning 20 games wins.

20 games * 3 points = 60 points.

He averages that. True to it that just about the average United league points in the past three years.


Is Bruno juice worth the squeeze, absolutely not we lose so much to accommodate him to win just half of the games in the league.

Ten Hag has seen it, that's why he's pushed to the wings anyhow. If he was doing his job well he wouldn't be experimented in different positions.

You'll never see Casemiro as a number 10 with Scot as number 6. Never.

Eventually, after being pushed to the wings he will be pushed out in 18 months.

Up until then we will,

struggle to control games, play modern flat 3 midfielders, always be pinned back in games, get hammered every 3-4 months, never win the league or champions league.

 

[ash_86]

As usual the media went overboard with the coverage on our Captain. He's one of the best and i expect him and the team to bounce back .

 

[RuudTom83]

Any news on when the public flogging will end? Will he be available for Betis or will he be in the stocks all week.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

What annoys me more than anything about this Bruno slander since the weekend is the manager has to take most of the blame for playing him on the left wing.

It might not excuse his whining and playacting but the manager set us up to fail at the weekend. Anfield is no place to start experimenting. And I love this manager but he needs to have a good long hard look at himself too for those ridiculous tactics. Weghorst at 10 and Bruno on left didn't work at all. It was absolutely to the detriment of our team and also allowed Trent a free ride too.

Let's not make this about Bruno. The whole team was crap and so was the manager. The worst result in our entire history you could argue. Absolutely still fuming about it.

The manager doesn't have to apologize to anyone, especially to the players. The moment the previous manager decided that this is the way to go, he basically dug his own grave.

As far as the team as a whole is concerned, the biggest lesson to take from Sunday is that we still have a lot of work to do before we can claim with certainty that "we are back". Let this also be a lesson to all the fans who were pointing at the 2nd place(s) as a sign of progress. We will end this season with more silverware than Liverpool, we will probably finish above them on the PL table, too. And they will still be the better team, simply because their ceiling is still much higher than ours. Don't be angry for the things you can't change, like a freakish scoreline.

Going back to the game, was it really strange? Is the concept of the wide playmaker so alien to United fans, or do our fans actually believe that the only way you can operate on the wings is by having pace? Maybe every time the likes of Bernardo Silva, David Silva or Iniesta were/are utilized in the wide areas is a crime against the sport itself.

There was no experimentation, at least not one so wild to have people throwing their arms in the air. It's factual that Liverpool leave a lot of spaces open in the wide channels because they rely heavily on their FBs for creativity. Bruno is a player who needs space and time on the ball to work his magic. So, ETH set his starting position in the area on the pitch where he would find space. If he had to track back and find himself in a deeper position, Rashford would occupy that space and we would search a ball to him for the counter. Again, he put the best creator in the area where he would find the most space to exploit.

Why Weghorst centrally? Because when you have Rashford stretching the defence vertically to create pockets of space between the lines, you need someone to receive the ball and protect it. If you can't do that, how on earth will your wide players get in-behind? How will the midfielders get higher up the pitch? How will Shaw (mainly) and Dalot/AWB get the chance to play on the overlap/underlap? You need time for these things, and keeping the ball is what offers you time. Bruno didn't start centrally because he would have Liverpool's midfield constantly breathing down his neck. That's not his game, he needs space.

Because something doesn't work (for various reasons) doesn't necessarily make the logic bad. It kinda worked for 45 minutes. If we had better and more posssession-safe players, it could have worked better, too. But it feels like the discussion with Mata. Why didn't any United manager start him centrally, and how he was wasted in the wide areas? The answer is simple: Because he couldn't keep the ball under pressure and when he received it with his back to goal, his first three or four touches were always backwards and sideways.

ETH has done a lot of good things in these 8 months and he has also made some bad calls. The one thing you can't accuse him of is that he doesn't do his absolute best to facilitate the players' strengths while implementing his principals.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

As usual the media went overboard with the coverage on our Captain. He's one of the best and i expect him and the team to bounce back .

Exactly. Some of our "supporters" have really not covered themselves in glory this week. When one of our own is getting pelters we should get behind him and show him that Utd means UNITED. Ive been guilty of it myself in the past, especially with our other captain, I hold my hands up, but after the way the lads have gone above and beyond for most of this season, being totally run into the ground and still achieving, it doesnt sit well with me any more.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The manager doesn't have to apologize to anyone, especially to the players. The moment the previous manager decided that this is the way to go, he basically dug his own grave.

As far as the team as a whole is concerned, the biggest lesson to take from Sunday is that we still have a lot of work to do before we can claim with certainty that "we are back". Let this also be a lesson to all the fans who were pointing at the 2nd place(s) as a sign of progress. We will end this season with more silverware than Liverpool, we will probably finish above them on the PL table, too. And they will still be the better team, simply because their ceiling is still much higher than ours. Don't be angry for the things you can't change, like a freakish scoreline.

Going back to the game, was it really strange? Is the concept of the wide playmaker so alien to United fans, or do our fans actually believe that the only way you can operate on the wings is by having pace? Maybe every time the likes of Bernardo Silva, David Silva or Iniesta were/are utilized in the wide areas is a crime against the sport itself.

There was no experimentation, at least not one so wild to have people throwing their arms in the air. It's factual that Liverpool leave a lot of spaces open in the wide channels because they rely heavily on their FBs for creativity. Bruno is a player who needs space and time on the ball to work his magic. So, ETH set his starting position in the area on the pitch where he would find space. If he had to track back and find himself in a deeper position, Rashford would occupy that space and we would search a ball to him for the counter. Again, he put the best creator in the area where he would find the most space to exploit.

Why Weghorst centrally? Because when you have Rashford stretching the defence vertically to create pockets of space between the lines, you need someone to receive the ball and protect it. If you can't do that, how on earth will your wide players get in-behind? How will the midfielders get higher up the pitch? How will Shaw (mainly) and Dalot/AWB get the chance to play on the overlap/underlap? You need time for these things, and keeping the ball is what offers you time. Bruno didn't start centrally because he would have Liverpool's midfield constantly breathing down his neck. That's not his game, he needs space.

Because something doesn't work (for various reasons) doesn't necessarily make the logic bad. It kinda worked for 45 minutes. If we had better and more posssession-safe players, it could have worked better, too. But it feels like the discussion with Mata. Why didn't any United manager start him centrally, and how he was wasted in the wide areas? The answer is simple: Because he couldn't keep the ball under pressure and when he received it with his back to goal, his first three or four touches were always backwards and sideways.

ETH has done a lot of good things in these 8 months and he has also made some bad calls. The one thing you can't accuse him of is that he doesn't do his absolute best to facilitate the players' strengths while implementing his principals.

All that for what? I didn't say he needed to apologize to the players. I said he needs to have a look at himself too and realise his team selection wasn't right.

It can happen. Fergie got it wrong plenty of times as does Pep sometimes too.

I never want to see Bruno on the left ever again. He can't play there. We'd be better off with a kid from the reserves playing there.

Play your best players in their best positions. Oh and drop Weghorst. He isn't good enough for that kind of game.

 

[Jeffthered]

Bruno is being hung out to dry by these agendas in the media. I get annoyed by his histrionics and think he shouldn’t be captain but he’s being unfairly pilloried over the ref “push” and arm to the face incident.

I am pleased to see such posts, because they are providing a sense of balance to this issue. This incident is highlighting something which is far more important, and in my opinion, highlights an ugly side to the game, and that is this sense of bias. We see it against certain clubs, players.. and it's driven by a 'football' media, whose priority (for some, some...) is solely to gain listeners, viewers, and retain their media-celebrity status. They feed off the success that is the Premiership.

Bruno is targetted for being someone who flaps around a bit.. so what? Is this unique? Look at the constant play-acting, over-reaction and downright conning of referees by Jack Grealish? But he is a '..cheeky chappy..'.

Chris Sutton last night on Five Live suggested Bruno should be looking at a 'lengthy ban..'. Really? Have you not seen Arteta's actions at times this season?

A wider point in terms of bias... just listen to the BBC interview given to Jurgen Klopp (who the BBC simply ADORE.....alongside Potter and Southgate). It was a gushing disgrace of an interview, the interviewee was miles up Klopp's rear, it was embarrassing... he started the interview by stating '...Jurgen, first of all, it's great to see that smile back on your face....'.

Are you kidding me?

So let's keep things in perspective. Bruno has been fantastic since his arrival, and this whole episode, I have little doubt, will be good for him. Because he cannot act this way any more... no way.

We should let him know how we as fans etc, feel... but then we back him. People stating his captaincy should be removed are showing a fragility about how they view players.

 

[romufc]

As sad as it maybe,

He is the embodiment of what United has been in the last 3 years.
Transition football team.
Counter Attack team.
Zero midfield.
Zero control game.
Hiding during big games.
Whining, play acting,
When the going gets tougher we throw our hands up.
Talking about mentality and United way while being thrashed by rivals.


In the last few years 2-3 years the hammerings we have received...

Manutd 1 - 6 Spurs.
Manutd 2 - 4 Liverpool.
Leicester 4 - 2 Manutd.
Manutd 0 - 5 Liverpool.
Watford 4 -1 Manutd.
ManCity 4 - 1 Manutd.
Liverpool 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brighton 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brenford 4 - 0 Manutd.
ManCity 6 - 3 Manutd.
Liverpool 7 - 0 Manutd.


Funny thing Mourinho had I think one 4-0 defeat to Chelsea in Bridge. In all his limitations Mourinho was never hammered every 3 months.

It's after Ole, and Bruno signing that we have become exposed like hell in all this games..


Bruno has played in all these hammerings. I'm 99% certain he has played in all this games.
He the constant in all these hammerings.

We have
Changed managers Ole to Ralf to Ten Hag,
Changed defenders Maguire Lindelof to Varane Licha,
Changed midfielders McFred to Casemiro Eriksen
Changed non pressing striker Ronaldo with pressing WW

In this 3 year period, but still our big games have the same same tragectory in how it will end.

We've never won a cup in those 3 years till we need Ten Hag, Casemiro to get us through the line. A carabao cup.


How people can not see it, it's absolutely telling.

His stats of 41 goals in Premier League might look okay but remove the 14 penalties it's just 27 goals in 111 games.

In his 111 games he has won only 58 games. Just 52%.

He never misses games so take into account 38 game season.

38*52.2% = 19.8.
Meaning 20 games wins.

20 games * 3 points = 60 points.

He averages that. True to it that just about the average United league points in the past three years.


Is Bruno juice worth the squeeze, absolutely not we lose so much to accommodate him to win just half of the games in the league.

Ten Hag has seen it, that's why he's pushed to the wings anyhow. If he was doing his job well he wouldn't be experimented in different positions.

You'll never see Casemiro as a number 10 with Scot as number 6. Never.

Eventually, after being pushed to the wings he will be pushed out in 18 months.

Up until then we will,

struggle to control games, play modern flat 3 midfielders, always be pinned back in games, get hammered every 3-4 months, never win the league or champions league.

yes, blame Bruno for defeats.

 

[hmchan]

I don’t know why you can’t understand the difference between exaggerating contact and faking contact that never happened? There’s a huge and obvious difference. Because footballers - all footballers - constantly exaggerate contact for the benefit of the referee. It’s a complete non event. Happens multiple times in every single game. Sometimes they get criticised for not exaggerating enough “he should have gone down there”. This particular incident only blew up because of a false narrative about Bruno pretending he had been hit in the face when he wasn’t.

Footballers do constantly exaggerate contact but there is a line, and when the line is crossed it looks as bad as faking contact. If they can get criticized for not exaggerating enough, it is only normal for them to be criticized for exaggerating too much, and Neymar is a well-known example. This particular incident blew up because the contact was minimal and the exaggeration was hilarious to everyone but Bruno's die-hard fans. Let alone these antics happened when the team was struggling. Attached is a contact exaggerated to an appropriate scale.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This is the biggest load of bollocks I've read on here over the last few days. Bruno has gave more for this club than anyone since he joined. He's never missed a game for us even when it was obvious he needed a rest and we never saw his effort levels drop. Also, he got the captains armband because he's respected and gives everything on the pitch. The dressing room knows that along with three managers we've had over the last two seasons.

Agreed. Terrible day for him on Sunday performance and attitude-wise to an extent, but the entire team was laughable. He's had other points being the talisman pulling us out the fire, Barca and City to name two recent games. The pile on I've seen on social media and from fans and pundits has been way over the top.

I actually think Bruno might be better for it, can imagine ETH has had a few words with him and expect him to be better. As for the captaincy, he might not be the answer and I'd personally go Casemiro or Varane or Licha, but Bruno is still a leader for us. He's proved it since he came. He just lost his head and had a very bad day Sunday, happens to us all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All that for what? I didn't say he needed to apologize to the players. I said he needs to have a look at himself too and realise his team selection wasn't right.

It can happen. Fergie got it wrong plenty of times as does Pep sometimes too.

I never want to see Bruno on the left ever again. He can't play there. We'd be better off with a kid from the reserves playing there.

Play your best players in their best positions. Oh and drop Weghorst. He isn't good enough for that kind of game.

All the moaning about team selection misses the point that the starting line-up probably got the better of the first half. Why did that happen if we were set up to fail?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I think it's pretty telling when a player is universally despised not only by all of the opposition fans but also by a good chunk of the fans of his own club.

I insist on "despised" because it's certainly not about his footballing ability, he got plenty of that, but about his antics and pathetic behavior on the pitch, even by today's standards. Anyone who played a bit of football knows that he's exactly the type of player you just can't rely on when things go south. They will drag the team down by constantly moaning, complaining and simply give up at some point. They'll get on your nerves and make you lose yours, as well as your confidence. His attitude is poison and it's contagious, especially when you're chasing a game. He plays for himself not the team. I thought that Ten Hag would reign him a bit, but it seems that it's just who he is and he can't help himself.

How he ended up being captain or was even considered for the armband is beyond me.

This, and many other posts, are complete drivel.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

All that for what? I didn't say he needed to apologize to the players. I said he needs to have a look at himself too and realise his team selection wasn't right.

It can happen. Fergie got it wrong plenty of times as does Pep sometimes too.

I never want to see Bruno on the left ever again. He can't play there. We'd be better off with a kid from the reserves playing there.

Play your best players in their best positions. Oh and drop Weghorst. He isn't good enough for that kind of game.

He is "guilty" of trying to take the game to a side which, on their day, are still miles away from us. He could have set an 8-men defensive line like Mourinho or play a 541/361 like Solskjaer, snatch a 0-0 draw, and we would have people laughing at Klopp and shouting "we are back". Liverpool would still be the better side and we, from the fans all the way up to the owners, would have fooled ourselves regarding the level of our progress. One wrong selection doesn't change reality.

You make it sound like he played Maguire on the left wing. That's what people keep repeating and they get stats thrown at them. Bruno is very important because most of our attacking plays go through him. But he can't operate on the wings, like a lot of modern play-makers do, because he can't dribble. He is also a calamity in deeper positions because he can't play on the half-turn and his short-passing and his ability to dictate the tempo leave much to be desired. When he's around the box against set defences, his instincts prevail (shoot or cross) when moving the ball around could create better options. You do realize that all of this makes "play him in his best position" a bit more difficult than most of you imagine.

And just to avoid being labelled a "hater", no, he's not the only one in the squad like this.

 

[NewGlory]

As sad as it maybe,

He is the embodiment of what United has been in the last 3 years.
Transition football team.
Counter Attack team.
Zero midfield.
Zero control game.
Hiding during big games.
Whining, play acting,
When the going gets tougher we throw our hands up.
Talking about mentality and United way while being thrashed by rivals.


In the last few years 2-3 years the hammerings we have received...

Manutd 1 - 6 Spurs.
Manutd 2 - 4 Liverpool.
Leicester 4 - 2 Manutd.
Manutd 0 - 5 Liverpool.
Watford 4 -1 Manutd.
ManCity 4 - 1 Manutd.
Liverpool 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brighton 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brenford 4 - 0 Manutd.
ManCity 6 - 3 Manutd.
Liverpool 7 - 0 Manutd.


Funny thing Mourinho had I think one 4-0 defeat to Chelsea in Bridge. In all his limitations Mourinho was never hammered every 3 months.

It's after Ole, and Bruno signing that we have become exposed like hell in all this games..


Bruno has played in all these hammerings. I'm 99% certain he has played in all this games.
He the constant in all these hammerings.

We have
Changed managers Ole to Ralf to Ten Hag,
Changed defenders Maguire Lindelof to Varane Licha,
Changed midfielders McFred to Casemiro Eriksen
Changed non pressing striker Ronaldo with pressing WW

In this 3 year period, but still our big games have the same same tragectory in how it will end.

We've never won a cup in those 3 years till we need Ten Hag, Casemiro to get us through the line. A carabao cup.


How people can not see it, it's absolutely telling.

His stats of 41 goals in Premier League might look okay but remove the 14 penalties it's just 27 goals in 111 games.

In his 111 games he has won only 58 games. Just 52%.

He never misses games so take into account 38 game season.

38*52.2% = 19.8.
Meaning 20 games wins.

20 games * 3 points = 60 points.

He averages that. True to it that just about the average United league points in the past three years.


Is Bruno juice worth the squeeze, absolutely not we lose so much to accommodate him to win just half of the games in the league.

Ten Hag has seen it, that's why he's pushed to the wings anyhow. If he was doing his job well he wouldn't be experimented in different positions.

You'll never see Casemiro as a number 10 with Scot as number 6. Never.

Eventually, after being pushed to the wings he will be pushed out in 18 months.

Up until then we will,

struggle to control games, play modern flat 3 midfielders, always be pinned back in games, get hammered every 3-4 months, never win the league or champions league.

"win just half of the games in the league"
Meanwhile: WWWWWWWDLWWWWDWDWWWWL

Bruno has been the best captain in Premier League this season.Your "analysis" makes zero sense.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

As sad as it maybe,

He is the embodiment of what United has been in the last 3 years.
Transition football team.
Counter Attack team.
Zero midfield.
Zero control game.
Hiding during big games.
Whining, play acting,
When the going gets tougher we throw our hands up.
Talking about mentality and United way while being thrashed by rivals.


In the last few years 2-3 years the hammerings we have received...

Manutd 1 - 6 Spurs.
Manutd 2 - 4 Liverpool.
Leicester 4 - 2 Manutd.
Manutd 0 - 5 Liverpool.
Watford 4 -1 Manutd.
ManCity 4 - 1 Manutd.
Liverpool 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brighton 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brenford 4 - 0 Manutd.
ManCity 6 - 3 Manutd.
Liverpool 7 - 0 Manutd.


Funny thing Mourinho had I think one 4-0 defeat to Chelsea in Bridge. In all his limitations Mourinho was never hammered every 3 months.

It's after Ole, and Bruno signing that we have become exposed like hell in all this games..


Bruno has played in all these hammerings. I'm 99% certain he has played in all this games.
He the constant in all these hammerings.

We have
Changed managers Ole to Ralf to Ten Hag,
Changed defenders Maguire Lindelof to Varane Licha,
Changed midfielders McFred to Casemiro Eriksen
Changed non pressing striker Ronaldo with pressing WW

In this 3 year period, but still our big games have the same same tragectory in how it will end.

We've never won a cup in those 3 years till we need Ten Hag, Casemiro to get us through the line. A carabao cup.


How people can not see it, it's absolutely telling.

His stats of 41 goals in Premier League might look okay but remove the 14 penalties it's just 27 goals in 111 games.

In his 111 games he has won only 58 games. Just 52%.

He never misses games so take into account 38 game season.

38*52.2% = 19.8.
Meaning 20 games wins.

20 games * 3 points = 60 points.

He averages that. True to it that just about the average United league points in the past three years.


Is Bruno juice worth the squeeze, absolutely not we lose so much to accommodate him to win just half of the games in the league.

Ten Hag has seen it, that's why he's pushed to the wings anyhow. If he was doing his job well he wouldn't be experimented in different positions.

You'll never see Casemiro as a number 10 with Scot as number 6. Never.

Eventually, after being pushed to the wings he will be pushed out in 18 months.

Up until then we will,

struggle to control games, play modern flat 3 midfielders, always be pinned back in games, get hammered every 3-4 months, never win the league or champions league.

I've just realised another common denominator in all these hammerings. Manchester United is involved in all of them. About time we have them banned from the club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is "guilty" of trying to take the game to a side which, on their day, are still miles away from us. He could have set an 8-men defensive line like Mourinho or play a 541/361 like Solskjaer, snatch a 0-0 draw, and we would have people laughing at Klopp and shouting "we are back". Liverpool would still be the better side and we, from the fans all the way up to the owners, would have fooled ourselves regarding the level of our progress. One wrong selection doesn't change reality.

You make it sound like he played Maguire on the left wing. That's what people keep repeating and they get stats thrown at them. Bruno is very important because most of our attacking plays go through him. But he can't operate on the wings, like a lot of modern play-makers do, because he can't dribble. He is also a calamity in deeper positions because he can't play on the half-turn and his short-passing and his ability to dictate the tempo leave much to be desired. When he's around the box against set defences, his instincts prevail (shoot or cross) when moving the ball around could create better options. You do realize that all of this makes "play him in his best position" a bit more difficult than most of you imagine.

And just to avoid being labelled a "hater", no, he's not the only one in the squad like this.

If Bruno is as big a burden as you describe why wasn’t he dropped in favour of Sancho or Garnacho?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[VP89]

Because its irrelevant. He was a disgrace in the last game.

It's not "oh I was showing good captaincy in big games last season, so I get a pass for this year at Anfield".

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

If Bruno is as big a burden as you describe why wasn’t he dropped in favour of Sancho or Garnacho?

Because he's the main creator for this side. Garnacho is a different player, a winger whom you want to isolate so he can run at defenders 1v1. Sancho has been a disappointment, this far.

I'm not arguing against his importance to this particular side. But, in all my time watching football, the only player whose contributions to his team were simply irreplaceable was Lionel Messi. It's funny how when it came to Ronaldo, most people could see the point many are trying to make. Perhaps, it was the interview or that he was acting like a petulant child all the time. Did Arsenal become a worse side when they shipped both their star goalscorers out in favour of Jesus?

Let's leave Bruno out of it for a moment. Imagine (not at United, at any club) your main goalscorer having a 30-goal season. 80% of these goals come from one or two preferred moves of his, and almost all of them come in transition. The whole team works so that he can get these goals because there aren't other pure goalscorers. The team, that aspires to win the league, continues to fall short of the 90-point bar that makes you a challenger by a considerable margin. Do you believe that this warrants at least a discussion about how the team should move forward? Should we keep doing the same thing, or should we change tactics to a more possession-based team which can lead to better goal distribution?

 

[frostbite]

He is "guilty" of trying to take the game to a side which, on their day, are still miles away from us. He could have set an 8-men defensive line like Mourinho or play a 541/361 like Solskjaer, snatch a 0-0 draw, and we would have people laughing at Klopp and shouting "we are back". Liverpool would still be the better side and we, from the fans all the way up to the owners, would have fooled ourselves regarding the level of our progress. One wrong selection doesn't change reality.

You make it sound like he played Maguire on the left wing. That's what people keep repeating and they get stats thrown at them. Bruno is very important because most of our attacking plays go through him. But he can't operate on the wings, like a lot of modern play-makers do, because he can't dribble. He is also a calamity in deeper positions because he can't play on the half-turn and his short-passing and his ability to dictate the tempo leave much to be desired. When he's around the box against set defences, his instincts prevail (shoot or cross) when moving the ball around could create better options. You do realize that all of this makes "play him in his best position" a bit more difficult than most of you imagine.

And just to avoid being labelled a "hater", no, he's not the only one in the squad like this.

Why do we have to make it complicated? Wout is the striker, Bruno behind him as AM, Rashford left, Antony right. Those are their best positions. It is simple.

ETH overcomplicated things, Bruno on the left, Rashford striker, Wout as AM. Did it work? Judging from the result, obviously not.

 

[Withnail]

yes, blame Bruno for defeats.

The mind boggles with some of these posts. You can't pin a shitshow where the team concedes 4+ goals on any one player.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Why do we have to make it complicated? Wout is the striker, Bruno behind him as AM, Rashford left, Antony right. Those are their best positions. It is simple.

ETH overcomplicated things, Bruno on the left, Rashford striker, Wout as AM. Did it work? Judging from the result, obviously not.

He didn't. ETH took him out of an area of the pitch where he would enjoy no space and time on the ball and with his particular skill set, he would get annihilated. He almost scored a goal and his movement (and the treat he poses while facing the goal) stretched Liverpool's defence for Rashford's chance (the one he would have scored, if he had controlled the ball). What happened in the second half isn't Bruno's fault and it's not just on tactics either. It was a complete collapse.

 

[redcafe_reader]

Bruno is being hung out to dry by these agendas in the media. I get annoyed by his histrionics and think he shouldn’t be captain but he’s being unfairly pilloried over the ref “push” and arm to the face incident.

He's the latest focus point. No more Ole, Pogba, Ronaldo, and ETH is new, so someone needs to take the fail to protect our other beloved players.

 

[VivaObertan]

Bruno should be stripped of the captaincy! Give it to people who also contributed to the same

Because its irrelevant. He was a disgrace in the last game.

It's not "oh I was showing good captaincy in big games last season, so I get a pass for this year at Anfield".

Right, who WASN'T a disgrace on Sunday? Show me one of our team of leaders who didn't either become petulant or crack under the pressure.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why do we have to make it complicated? Wout is the striker, Bruno behind him as AM, Rashford left, Antony right. Those are their best positions. It is simple.

ETH overcomplicated things, Bruno on the left, Rashford striker, Wout as AM. Did it work? Judging from the result, obviously not.

It worked for 45 minutes. And looked better and better as the first half wore on. Obviously the second half happened but if there was some sort of fundamental problem with the team he put out then it shouldn’t have taken that long to expose it.

 

[frostbite]

He didn't. ETH took him out of an area of the pitch where he would enjoy no space and time on the ball and with his particular skill set, he would get annihilated. He almost scored a goal and his movement (and the treat he poses while facing the goal) stretched Liverpool's defence for Rashford's chance (the one he would have scored, if he had controlled the ball). What happened in the second half isn't Bruno's fault and it's not just on tactics either. It was a complete collapse.

Nope, it didn't work. Obviously, it didn't work. We were losing in the first half, too. And we collapsed in the second. It was a failed experiment. And it is not smart to experiment while away at Liverpool.

 

[frostbite]

It worked for 45 minutes. And looked better and better as the first half wore on. Obviously the second half happened but if there was some sort of fundamental problem with the team he put out then it shouldn’t have taken that long to expose it.

What do you mean "worked"? That we were losing *only* 1-0?

 

[VP89]

Bruno should be stripped of the captaincy! Give it to people who also contributed to the same

Right, who WASN'T a disgrace on Sunday? Show me one of our team of leaders who didn't either become petulant or crack under the pressure.

Everyone was a disgrace, but this is a Bruno thread, and Bruno doesn't get a pass. Bruno was also the captain, he showed a lot more micro aggression (be it the linesman incident or toward his own players) and he outright stopped running in a couple key moments because he couldn't be fecked.

Posting some shit tweet about how he fessed up to fans in a game from an unrelated season is irrelevant to his conduct on sunday.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Because its irrelevant. He was a disgrace in the last game.

It's not "oh I was showing good captaincy in big games last season, so I get a pass for this year at Anfield".

No it's not. People are questioning his attitude altogether and questioning how he got the armband in the first place. Short memories and all.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Media are really out for him.

Bruno is being hung out to dry by these agendas in the media. I get annoyed by his histrionics and think he shouldn’t be captain but he’s being unfairly pilloried over the ref “push” and arm to the face incident.

Agree with you. He can be annoying and he had a truly awful game, but the media baying for his blood is uncalled for. Captain or not, he'll have my full support at the next game, and I hope he puts these so-called journos in their place with a top performance.

 

[VP89]

No it's not. People are questioning his attitude altogether and questioning how he got the armband in the first place. Short memories and all.

Bruno has a problem with showing unnecessary petulance and micro aggression towards his own players. That's been a long trend. And his attitude on Sunday was absolutely shit and not United worthy let alone captaincy worthy.


His attitude in general this season has broadly been fine - but that doesn't mean we can't criticize him in the biggest game of our season.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

As sad as it maybe,

He is the embodiment of what United has been in the last 3 years.
Transition football team.
Counter Attack team.
Zero midfield.
Zero control game.
Hiding during big games.
Whining, play acting,
When the going gets tougher we throw our hands up.
Talking about mentality and United way while being thrashed by rivals.


In the last few years 2-3 years the hammerings we have received...

Manutd 1 - 6 Spurs.
Manutd 2 - 4 Liverpool.
Leicester 4 - 2 Manutd.
Manutd 0 - 5 Liverpool.
Watford 4 -1 Manutd.
ManCity 4 - 1 Manutd.
Liverpool 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brighton 4 - 0 Manutd.
Brenford 4 - 0 Manutd.
ManCity 6 - 3 Manutd.
Liverpool 7 - 0 Manutd.


Funny thing Mourinho had I think one 4-0 defeat to Chelsea in Bridge. In all his limitations Mourinho was never hammered every 3 months.

It's after Ole, and Bruno signing that we have become exposed like hell in all this games..


Bruno has played in all these hammerings. I'm 99% certain he has played in all this games.
He the constant in all these hammerings.

We have
Changed managers Ole to Ralf to Ten Hag,
Changed defenders Maguire Lindelof to Varane Licha,
Changed midfielders McFred to Casemiro Eriksen
Changed non pressing striker Ronaldo with pressing WW

In this 3 year period, but still our big games have the same same tragectory in how it will end.

We've never won a cup in those 3 years till we need Ten Hag, Casemiro to get us through the line. A carabao cup.


How people can not see it, it's absolutely telling.

His stats of 41 goals in Premier League might look okay but remove the 14 penalties it's just 27 goals in 111 games.

In his 111 games he has won only 58 games. Just 52%.

He never misses games so take into account 38 game season.

38*52.2% = 19.8.
Meaning 20 games wins.

20 games * 3 points = 60 points.

He averages that. True to it that just about the average United league points in the past three years.


Is Bruno juice worth the squeeze, absolutely not we lose so much to accommodate him to win just half of the games in the league.

Ten Hag has seen it, that's why he's pushed to the wings anyhow. If he was doing his job well he wouldn't be experimented in different positions.

You'll never see Casemiro as a number 10 with Scot as number 6. Never.

Eventually, after being pushed to the wings he will be pushed out in 18 months.

Up until then we will,

struggle to control games, play modern flat 3 midfielders, always be pinned back in games, get hammered every 3-4 months, never win the league or champions league.

I sometimes wonder how can some of our fans come up with this nonsense...

In the last few years the hammerings we have received were not the fault of 1 player there are multiple factors that contributed, especially last season when we had no manger basically and we were all over the place.

Until the arrival of Casemiro and Martinez, Bruno has been, probably, the best transfer we've made since Van Persie, he had an instant impact and probably saved Ole's arse from that January onwards.

About his style, his antics on the pitch, his invisibility in derbies, there is much to debate, some of the fact are true, he will not win any Ballon D'ors and he will not be a Man Utd legend, but considering the shite we have been through since his arrival I think he was very good.

ETH made mistakes when we lost so heavily against City, Brentford or Pool but he is a smart manager and made us punch above our weight, if he sees Bruno as a captain, as a leader and as a undoubted starter I think he's right.

Let's imagine Bruno disappears starting tomorrow, who do we play instead? Weghorst? Sabitzer? Give me a break....