[Irwin99]

I like him, he's had a good season, but I'd like to see him rested a bit, as much for the sake of seeing some different combinations than giving him a rest. Actual wingers and a different number 10 etc.,

That being said, we as United fans often want a player replaced, then realise that their replacement is often worse and we realise why they weren't playing in the first place.

 

[Scandi Red]

Against West Ham och Sociedad too, lost 1-0 both.

Swede detected!!

 

[hobbers]

Against West Ham och Sociedad too, lost 1-0 both.

I assumed he was brought off at half time in those games but yeh, could have been brought on.

Either way, didn't help us.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Subbed on in 4 games since 2021 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bruno-fernandes/leistungsdaten/spieler/240306/plus/1?saison=2021

And what other games apart from Liverpool at home in 20/21 season?

Posting results from games he did start also apparently tells us nothing, all very convenient. Logic completely out the window with you.

Your memory is also seriously faulty. He was brought on as a sub twice in the last two seasons and didnt affect either result (2-0 over Villareal, 0-1 vs wolves).

Was he subbed on twice? Or four times? You guys need to get your facts straight. And I’m far too lazy to do any actual research myself, obviously.

 

[Lemoor]

Subbed on in 4 games since 2021 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bruno-fernandes/leistungsdaten/spieler/240306/plus/1?saison=2021

And what other games apart from Liverpool at home in 20/21 season?

West Ham away, Leipzig at home.

 

[hobbers]

So what we've concluded with absolute aplomb here is that other than the 3-1 defeat to Villa, we've been no worse off in games without Bruno at any point since he's been at the club. Including games where he came on as a sub.

 

[Chief123]

Bruno was petulant, and I'm sure ETH would've made him apologize to the dressing room as captain. But I found Neville's comments far more unprofessional, and he lost his head more than Bruno. He got personal.

I agree. Out of everyone yesterday, I thought Neville was far more unprofessional than any of the Utd players.

Some of his comments were scandalous.

Accusing McTominay of trying to hurt someone when it was a clean tackle and he actually tried to pull his feet away from the follow through.

Accusing Bruno for wanting to come off. That clearly didn’t happen.

All the team had a shocker but he seemed to really go out of his way to try and single out Bruno. We know Neville’s complained about him many times before and it’s as if he found this opportunity to go in hard on him.

Bruno does things I hate too like throwing his arms up and constantly moaning. But Neville’s attack on him was completely uncalled for.

Neville had a shocker all round yesterday. Couldn’t even bite the bullet to admit Liverpool played well regardless of how bad we were. A team can play terrible because of the pressure exerted by the team that plays well. It’s not like we just passed the ball to them to score into an open net.

 

[Lemoor]

Your memory is also seriously faulty. He was brought on as a sub twice in the last two seasons and didnt affect either result (2-0 over Villareal, 0-1 vs wolves).

Why exactly are we making this weird criterium of "subs before 21/22 season dont count"?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So what we've concluded with absolute aplomb here is that other than the 3-1 defeat to Villa, we've been no worse off in games without Bruno at any point since he's been at the club. Including games where he came on as a sub.

We’ve also established that I’m not the only one with a faulty memory. Here’s a wee prompt for you.

 

[hobbers]

We’ve also established that I’m not the only one with a faulty memory. Here’s a wee prompt for you.

Next season when he's getting the Maguire treatment, will you be able to cope?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree. Out of everyone yesterday, I thought Neville was far more unprofessional than any of the Utd players.

Some of his comments were scandalous.

Accusing McTominay of trying to hurt someone when it was a clean tackle and he actually tried to pull his feet away from the follow through.

Accusing Bruno for wanting to come off. That clearly didn’t happen.

All the team had a shocker but he seemed to really go out of his way to try and single out Bruno. We know Neville’s complained about him many times before and it’s as if he found this opportunity to go in hard on him.

Bruno does things I hate too like throwing his arms up and constantly moaning. But Neville’s attack on him was completely uncalled for.

Neville had a shocker all round yesterday. Couldn’t even bite the bullet to admit Liverpool played well regardless of how bad we were. A team can play terrible because of the pressure exerted by the team that plays well. It’s not like we just passed the ball to them to score into an open net.

Him and Carragher are like the worst, most brain-dead YouTube fan TV being inflicted on the paying public. It’s excruciating. They should never be allowed to contribute to coverage of matches involving their former clubs.

 

[Lemoor]

Your memory is also seriously faulty. He was brought on as a sub twice in the last two seasons and didnt affect either result (2-0 over Villareal, 0-1 vs wolves).

Also, how is bruno being subbed on at 66th minute at 0-0 against villareal and the game ending 2-0 with his assist him not affecting the result in the context of how team plays with him and without him?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Next season when he's getting the Maguire treatment, will you be able to cope?

If and when he plays as badly as Maguire has, for as long as Maguire has, I’ll cope just fine with the manager planning for a future without him. Although if he gets the same sort of childish abuse that Maguire has been getting on here I’ll allow myself the same low grade irritation at all the absolute weapons that post on the caf.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also, how is bruno being subbed on at 66th minute at 0-0 against villareal and the game ending 2-0 with his assist him not affecting the result in the context of how team plays with him and without him?

 

[Scandi Red]

This thread has officially became the worst thread on the internet. I admire your patience @Pogue Mahone . It shouldn't be necessary to fight this hard for one of our best players, but here we are.

 

[mav_9me]

United have played him into the ground since he came to England and ETH is taking it to a new level.

Its very rare for PL midfielders to go over 4000 minutes in all comps, the game is so fast paced and physically demanding. Even a player like Jordan Henderson has only done that once in his career, KDB once since coming to England, Bernardo Silva once since coming to England, David Silva never, Ozil never, Fabinho never, Kante did it twice then broke down, etc.

Bruno did 4303 in 19-20 (partly in Portugal), 4585 in 20-21, 3861 in 21-22, and has 3503 so far this year with potentially another 2000 possible minutes to play if United keep going in the cups.

Ten Hag will have to make some decisions about rotation. I don't think you can play a PL midfielder 5000+ minutes without him being a shadow of himself by the end or just physically breaking down, and that's already coming on the heels of a massive usage rate over the last three seasons.

Now that's the kind of opposition fan that makes Redcafe excellent. Much appreciate the effort and value in your post.

 

[Chief123]

Him and Carragher are like the worst, most brain-dead YouTube fan TV being inflicted on the paying public. It’s excruciating. They should never be allowed to contribute to coverage of matches involving their former clubs.

They started off a good combo but they seemed to have been swallowed by personal rivalry and banter, in particular on Twitter.

It now seems to be a constant battle between the two about who can get one over the other. Who can show up the other by showing how wrong they were about their opinion. Neville trying to show Carra up for getting Martinez wrong. Carra trying to get Neville exposed for saying things about Messi. Personal jibes at each others predictions.

It’s led them both to start saying completely irrational things to try and look impartial while also trying to get one over their work colleagues.

Some of the after match debates are like kids in school bantering each other.

 

[Jimble]

there's giving up because you can't be arsed, and there's having nothing left in the tank at all. The mans gassed, can't remember which match it was, but it was in one of the last few. Towards the end of the game he got the ball on the right wing, and you could see in his face that he was spent. If they do ban him for a few games (or we drop him) it'll be doing him a favour. Bloke needs a rest.

 

[the gafferjs]

I agree. Out of everyone yesterday, I thought Neville was far more unprofessional than any of the Utd players.

Some of his comments were scandalous.

Accusing McTominay of trying to hurt someone when it was a clean tackle and he actually tried to pull his feet away from the follow through.

Accusing Bruno for wanting to come off. That clearly didn’t happen.

All the team had a shocker but he seemed to really go out of his way to try and single out Bruno. We know Neville’s complained about him many times before and it’s as if he found this opportunity to go in hard on him.

Bruno does things I hate too like throwing his arms up and constantly moaning. But Neville’s attack on him was completely uncalled for.

Neville had a shocker all round yesterday. Couldn’t even bite the bullet to admit Liverpool played well regardless of how bad we were. A team can play terrible because of the pressure exerted by the team that plays well. It’s not like we just passed the ball to them to score into an open net.

Neville is so bitter and twisted it is unreal but he is a bit like Luckhurst, he is playing to the galleries that he knows will be all over it on social media. Another player I know but his comments on McTominay proved that as even Carragher said he was wrong.

For what it is worth I do think Bruno needs dropped for yesterday and I do feel he is not and never will be a Captain.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They started off a good combo but they seemed to have been swallowed by personal rivalry and banter,in particular on Twitter.

It now seems to be a constant battle between the two about who can get one over the other. Who can show up the other by showing how wrong they were about their opinion. Neville trying to show Carra up for getting Martinez wrong. Carra trying to get Neville exposed for saying things about Messi. Personal jibes at each others predictions.

It’s led them both to start saying completely irrational things to try and look impartial while also trying to get one over their work colleagues.

Some of the after match debates are like kids in school bantering each other.

I think that’s spot on. It’s basically not possible to spend much time arguing about anything on Twitter and not end up consumed by it and turned into an insufferable bell end.

 

[hobbers]

This thread has officially became the worst thread on the internet. I admire your patience @Pogue Mahone . It shouldn't be necessary to fight this hard for one of our best players, but here we are.

Would help if he could stop posting absolute drivel that's easily disproven, and then doubling and tripling down on it.

 

[Chief123]

Also, how is bruno being subbed on at 66th minute at 0-0 against villareal and the game ending 2-0 with his assist him not affecting the result in the context of how team plays with him and without him?

There’s some serious desperation in here to make out we are better without Bruno. Some people deserve Lingaard and Perreira back in that position.

 

[hobbers]

Also, how is bruno being subbed on at 66th minute at 0-0 against villareal and the game ending 2-0 with his assist him not affecting the result in the context of how team plays with him and without him?

He didn't have a hand in the first goal there, same with Leipzig, brought on when 1-0 up.

The claim was he had been repeatedly brought on as a sub to rescue dire performances, simply not true.

There’s some serious desperation in here to make out we are better without Bruno. Some people deserve Lingaard and Perreira back in that position.

No, there's a rank desperation to make out we have been far worse without Bruno. Keep up.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would help if he could stop posting absolute drivel that's easily disproven, and then doubling and tripling down on it.

Pot, meet kettle.

Your memory is also seriously faulty. He was brought on as a sub twice in the last two seasons and didnt affect either result (2-0 over Villareal, 0-1 vs wolves).

Also, how is bruno being subbed on at 66th minute at 0-0 against villareal and the game ending 2-0 with his assist him not affecting the result in the context of how team plays with him and without him?

And I could also include your smoking gun tweet about him "PLEADING to come off" but will do you a solid and let that die a natural death...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He didn't have a hand in the first goal there, same with Leipzig, brought on when 1-0 up.

The claim was he had been repeatedly brought on as a sub to rescue dire performances, simply not true.

Might blow your mind but it's possible to affect a result without scoring or assisting.

 

[Dec9003]

I’m not sure how we’re meant to know how much better we are without him when he plays practically every match. We’ve lost something like 3 matches in the last 30, and he’s played a big part in that. I don’t think there is enough evidence to say we’re a better side without him playing, who would we even pick instead?

 

[CM]

I think you have to be careful what you wish for with Bruno Fernandes. He obviously isn't a player without flaws, but we've also massively lacked intensity when we've played without him in recent times. I agree with the sentiments about him being a chaotic player, but that works both ways. There have been plenty of occasions when we've struggled to create and Fernandes has made something happen.

The misstep we made with Fernandes was giving him that new contract before ten Hag even worked his first day on the job. You've effectively made him undroppable from that point forward and taken the decision out of the manager's hands. I don't necessarily think he would've been replaced anyway but it was such a bizarre thing to do. Fernandes' contract wasn't even close to coming up and it gave strength to his position when nobody else in the team was afforded that privilege.

 

[golden_blunder]

As @Pogue Mahone said, the amount of hate this guy gets is nothing sort of astonishing.

Like him as a player but his constant whining, throwing his hands in the air etc grinds my gears.
And I get that he’s knackered but it really irritated me yesterday him just visibly giving up. He’s the captain, regardless if it’s 7-0 with minutes to go, you should want to ensure it doesn’t get worse

 

[hobbers]

Pot, meet kettle.

I normally find that rather than just admit I'm wrong, it's better for my ego if I take aim at the people who are bothering to look stuff up to correct my seemingly endless ignorance.

Antivaxer tactics.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m not sure how we’re meant to know how much better we are without him when he plays practically every match. We’ve lost something like 3 matches in the last 30, and he’s played a big part in that. I don’t think there is enough evidence to say we’re a better side without him playing, who would we even pick instead?

It's often been Donny VDB, which explains why we usually look so much weaker. Sancho's got to be in the running now, so ETH does at least have options. Perhaps he'll finally get up to speed with some of the redcafe managerial geniuses and bench this player who is so detrimental to our performances?

And, to be fair, that time might actually have come. Bruno could certainly do with a rest and has been crap in his last two performances. Be interesting to see how we line up on Thursday.

 

[Jeppers7]

Him and Carragher are like the worst, most brain-dead YouTube fan TV being inflicted on the paying public. It’s excruciating. They should never be allowed to contribute to coverage of matches involving their former clubs.

Phenomenal stuff...the guy who posted 16 times in Nevilles thread defending him (August 26th to August 28th) after Nevilles over the top criticism contributed to one of our players being racially abused....Suddenly thinks he’s a brain-dead affliction, so excruciating that he should never be allowed to commentate on a United match again because he said Bruno was acting petulantly.

Never change @Pogue Mahone

 

[Chief123]

No, there's a rank desperation to make out we have been far worse without Bruno. Keep up.

You’d have a valid cause to fight if it wasn’t for the fact that Bruno has played 95% of the games since he’s arrived. The variables you are trying to work with just aren’t there.

Despite being a Bruno fan, I’m still aware that he has limitations to his game which put doubt on him being the long term solution to take us where we want to be.

However, if we played a whole season without him as opposed to with him I’m convinced we would be nowhere near where we are in the table right now. We’ve seen enough evidence just with the eye test that we have a poor edge to the attack when Bruno doesn’t play. It becomes laborious seeing us trying to create clear chances.

Bruno will always create division in people’s views because he can really jump from one extreme to another. However, I’m convinced just like ETH and every other manager so far has been is that he is our best option in that role. It’s all good and well saying we’re better without him, but then there has to be a true alternative to show validity to that argument. Right now we have no alternative. Long term we will have to see.

 

[united_99]

United have played him into the ground since he came to England and ETH is taking it to a new level.

Its very rare for PL midfielders to go over 4000 minutes in all comps, the game is so fast paced and physically demanding. Even a player like Jordan Henderson has only done that once in his career, KDB once since coming to England, Bernardo Silva once since coming to England, David Silva never, Ozil never, Fabinho never, Kante did it twice then broke down, etc.

Bruno did 4303 in 19-20 (partly in Portugal), 4585 in 20-21, 3861 in 21-22, and has 3503 so far this year with potentially another 2000 possible minutes to play if United keep going in the cups.

Ten Hag will have to make some decisions about rotation. I don't think you can play a PL midfielder 5000+ minutes without him being a shadow of himself by the end or just physically breaking down, and that's already coming on the heels of a massive usage rate over the last three seasons.

Exactly this.
And we are not talking about a player who hardly moves or runs, we are talking about someone who runs and works hard almost nonstop.
I am amazed that ETH can’t see / spot something that obvious despite all the 200 or something analysts, coaches etc. he apparently has at his disposal.
Or he sees it but isn’t changing it which is equally annoying.

 

[united_99]

Even more annoying than yesterday’s defeat are the Pogba fans who can’t wait to s*** on Bruno every time we lose or don’t play well.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[RuudTom83]

Professional footballer going to ground easily SHOCKER!!!!

 

[Berbaclass]

Professional footballer going to ground easily SHOCKER!!!!

Not the point. Lots of people accused him of getting hit in the chest and holding his face. Neville mainly.

 

[Ludens the Red]

United have played him into the ground since he came to England and ETH is taking it to a new level.

Its very rare for PL midfielders to go over 4000 minutes in all comps, the game is so fast paced and physically demanding. Even a player like Jordan Henderson has only done that once in his career, KDB once since coming to England, Bernardo Silva once since coming to England, David Silva never, Ozil never, Fabinho never, Kante did it twice then broke down, etc.

Bruno did 4303 in 19-20 (partly in Portugal), 4585 in 20-21, 3861 in 21-22, and has 3503 so far this year with potentially another 2000 possible minutes to play if United keep going in the cups.

Ten Hag will have to make some decisions about rotation. I don't think you can play a PL midfielder 5000+ minutes without him being a shadow of himself by the end or just physically breaking down, and that's already coming on the heels of a massive usage rate over the last three seasons.

Maybe not but you can maintain being a professional footballer and captain.
I have to say I’m beginning to dislike him as a player and not for anything he does or doesn’t do with the ball.
It no longer feels like he’s the pantomime villain opposition fans dislike and supporter fans love. He’s generally just become a completely unlikeable arsehole on the pitch.
The constant whining, diving and play acting. He actually does it at a detriment to us a lot of the time now. Refs have cottoned onto him and never give him anything so he ends up crying on the floor for 45 secs while the opposition go on the attack. Even yesterday had he just tried to score from that Alison mistake and not dived like a tart he may have actually won a penalty.

 

[hobbers]

The dark arts are fine when you're winning 1-0 at Anfield and want to time waste. Or when you're 0-0 and want to con the referee and gain a marginal edge.

Not when you're in the middle of a hammering. None of the histrionics are acceptable, just sets a spineless and defeatist standard for his team mates. Even worse is rolling around feigning injury as your team mates are getting counter attacked because you gave it away.

 

[Hammondo]

United have played him into the ground since he came to England and ETH is taking it to a new level.

Its very rare for PL midfielders to go over 4000 minutes in all comps, the game is so fast paced and physically demanding. Even a player like Jordan Henderson has only done that once in his career, KDB once since coming to England, Bernardo Silva once since coming to England, David Silva never, Ozil never, Fabinho never, Kante did it twice then broke down, etc.

Bruno did 4303 in 19-20 (partly in Portugal), 4585 in 20-21, 3861 in 21-22, and has 3503 so far this year with potentially another 2000 possible minutes to play if United keep going in the cups.

Ten Hag will have to make some decisions about rotation. I don't think you can play a PL midfielder 5000+ minutes without him being a shadow of himself by the end or just physically breaking down, and that's already coming on the heels of a massive usage rate over the last three seasons.

He's rarely seen in midfield though.