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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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An emergency budget when the new PM comes in? I must have misheard because I was assured that this was just scaremongering and actually we'll have an extra £350m a week to spend?!

I mean... it said it on the side of a bus and everything?!
 
ZupZup said:
An emergency budget when the new PM comes in? I must have misheard because I was assured that this was just scaremongering and actually we'll have an extra £350m a week to spend?!

I mean... it said it on the side of a bus and everything?!
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I think the words you are looking for are 'project fear'.
 
ZupZup said:
An emergency budget when the new PM comes in? I must have misheard because I was assured that this was just scaremongering and actually we'll have an extra £350m a week to spend?!

I mean... it said it on the side of a bus and everything?!
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Surely an emergency budget means straight away. He also mentioned 2p on income tax when peddling that one the other week. Now, surprise surprise, he's saying there won't be one. It was scaremongering mate - in fact I'd go as far to say that it was a direct threat to every working man and woman in the country that pays income tax.

If an autumn budget does include an income tax hike of 2p in the pound you reserve the right to call me out on this ;)
 
ZupZup said:
An emergency budget when the new PM comes in? I must have misheard because I was assured that this was just scaremongering and actually we'll have an extra £350m a week to spend?!

I mean... it said it on the side of a bus and everything?!
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Don't worry the BoE has a £250bn emergency fund - or the equivalent of 30 years of EU payments
 
M18CTID said:
Surely an emergency budget means straight away. He also mentioned 2p on income tax when peddling that one the other week. Now, surprise surprise, he's saying there won't be one. It was scaremongering mate - in fact I'd go as far to say that it was a direct threat to every working man and woman in the country that pays income tax.

If an autumn budget does include an income tax hike of 2p in the pound you reserve the right to call me out on this ;)
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He has said these things would be necessary, and he was asked directly in his news conference if he takes any of it back and he said no.

Just because he's not going to do it now doesn't mean it won't be necessary if indeed there's a £30 billion hole in the public finances. He's basically saying, I'll leave that to the guy who comes after me.

I can't believe that, after what has happened since Friday's market turmoil, people still think this is all 'project fear'.
 
#07 said:
He has said these things would be necessary, and he was asked directly in his news conference if he takes any of it back and he said no.

Just because he's not going to do it now doesn't mean it won't be necessary if indeed there's a £30 billion hole in the public finances. He's basically saying, I'll leave that to the guy who comes after me.

I can't believe that, after what has happened since Friday's market turmoil, people still think this is all 'project fear'.
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I find it baffling how people are willing to back Osbourne and Cameron just because they wrote speaking under the guise of Remain.

Of course Osbourne's emergency budget was a political ploy. I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.
 
#07 said:
He has said these things would be necessary, and he was asked directly in his news conference if he takes any of it back and he said no.

Just because he's not going to do it now doesn't mean it won't be necessary if indeed there's a £30 billion hole in the public finances. He's basically saying, I'll leave that to the guy who comes after me.

I can't believe that, after what has happened since Friday's market turmoil, people still think this is all 'project fear'.
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But raising income tax means less money in people's pockets and therefore less money to spend on goods which in turn affects the economy at a time when it may need stimulating. It doesn't make that much sense when you think about it. There may well be a £30 billion hole in public finances - I'm not dismissing that - but given we won't be officially out of the EU for at least 2 years, there's plenty of time for the markets to recover, etc, plus trade deals to be put in place. It'll be quite messy for sure in the short term and there's a hell of a lot to play out yet. Remember there's also talk of an interest rate cut too which will be of benefit to tens of millions of mortgage payers.
 
The Leave campaign has opened up a gateway in which people see racism and xenophobia as perfectly normal. So much hate crime is now commonplace in the UK it's ridiculous. We are dangerously close to a Nazi Germany regime, it's quite scary.
 
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M18CTID said:
But raising income tax means less money in people's pockets and therefore less money to spend on goods which in turn affects the economy at a time when it may need stimulating. It doesn't make that much sense when you think about it. There may well be a £30 billion hole in public finances - I'm not dismissing that - but given we won't be officially out of the EU for at least 2 years, there's plenty of time for the markets to recover, etc, plus trade deals to be put in place. It'll be quite messy for sure in the short term and there's a hell of a lot to play out yet. Remember there's also talk of an interest rate cut too which will be of benefit to tens of millions of mortgage payers.
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What is the alternative if we want to maintain existing levels of public spending?

We either cut more, tax more, or borrow more (and borrowing more is just taxing more later).

An interest rate cut? Interest rates are rock bottom. They're at 0.5 per cent and inflation will start to feed through from a falling pound. They can't stay low forever.

Everyone seems to be crossing their fingers and hoping it'll all be alright on the night.
 
#07 said:
What is the alternative if we want to maintain existing levels of public spending?

We either cut more, tax more, or borrow more (and borrowing more is just taxing more later).

An interest rate cut? Interest rates are rock bottom. They're at 0.5 per cent and inflation will start to feed through from a falling pound. They can't stay low forever.

Everyone seems to be crossing their fingers and hoping it'll all be alright on the night.
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I'm not an expert and don't have all the answers mate but I think we need to wait for the dust to settle and see where we're at. I know that probably equates to what your last line is saying but at the end of the day you or I don't run the country - it's actually up to the politicians to now roll up their sleeves, start engaging their brains, and pave a way forward. We're only on day 4 and there seems to be too much panic in the air - on both sides of the debate by the way.
 
M18CTID said:
I'm not an expert and don't have all the answers mate but I think we need to wait for the dust to settle and see where we're at. I know that probably equates to what your last line is saying but at the end of the day you or I don't run the country - it's actually up to the politicians to now roll up their sleeves, start engaging their brains, and pave a way forward. We're only on day 4 and there seems to be too much panic in the air - on both sides of the debate by the way.
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The whole problem with this debate is the experts have been continually ignored.

The Bank of England, the Treasury, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the International Monetary Fund...all of them said Brexit would be bad for us. They all did projections of how bad. Nobody listened. It was all 'project fear'. Now the s-t is hitting the fan, they are all being proved right, and people want to trust the experts now? The experts they just rejected last week?
 
#07 said:
What is the alternative if we want to maintain existing levels of public spending?

We either cut more, tax more, or borrow more (and borrowing more is just taxing more later).

An interest rate cut? Interest rates are rock bottom. They're at 0.5 per cent and inflation will start to feed through from a falling pound. They can't stay low forever.

Everyone seems to be crossing their fingers and hoping it'll all be alright on the night.
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Low interest rates as the norm is exactly the environment we were heading towards anyway. Short-term I think an initial cut is more likely, long-term it'll obviously depend how this all plays out.

It'll take some time before the real impact of a lowered sterling makes it way to the consumer.
 
#07 said:
He has said these things would be necessary, and he was asked directly in his news conference if he takes any of it back and he said no.

Just because he's not going to do it now doesn't mean it won't be necessary if indeed there's a £30 billion hole in the public finances. He's basically saying, I'll leave that to the guy who comes after me.

I can't believe that, after what has happened since Friday's market turmoil, people still think this is all 'project fear'.
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Market turmoil is down to uncertainty, totally understandable given Remain was the expected result and the shock resignation of Cameron.

Re: Osborne. His statements today are worlds apart from his pre-referendum propoganda. The comments about the work he has done on contingency plans are particularly risible given the guff he was previously coming out with:

https://audioboom.com/boos/4740994-...for-how-to-fix-trade-deals-in-event-of-brexit
 
settembrini said:
Re: Osborne. His statements today are worlds apart from his pre-referendum propoganda. The comments about the work he has done on contingency plans are particularly risible given the guff he was previously coming out with.
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Of course he HAS to say that, what else do you expect him to say to the market? The UK is falling to shit in the markets, they have to try and reassure them or it'd be recession within a few days.

Hilarious that you think he should now stick to his "we're fecked" line :lol:
 
Yeah. It's not exactly like he can put gas on the flames now. He has to attempt to calm things down as best as he can.
 
#07 said:
What is the alternative if we want to maintain existing levels of public spending?

We either cut more, tax more, or borrow more (and borrowing more is just taxing more later).

An interest rate cut? Interest rates are rock bottom. They're at 0.5 per cent and inflation will start to feed through from a falling pound. They can't stay low forever.

Everyone seems to be crossing their fingers and hoping it'll all be alright on the night.
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The economist in me wants to see income taxes slashed, but a land value tax implemented to make up for it. This will put the shift the burden away to those who earn to those who own. Poorer parts of the UK will end up having lower overall levels of taxation, encouraging investment there; richer parts of the UK will have a higher tax burden, but there will be advantages of these parts of the UK anyway (i.e. London - financial centre, cultural melting pot, etc.). You'd also need to get tax dodging under control.

This would, of course, destroy a ton of property speculation in the UK, and house prices would plummet, so the odds of a Tory or Labour government doing it is probably about zilch...
 
afrocentricity said:
Clearly too smart to fall for that.
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NinjaFletch said:
This has been posted on reddit, but its obvious rubbish.

From Sky Data themselves:



In other words, because young people didn't vote at the General Election in 2015 they're assuming they also didn't vote in this election, even if they said they would certainly vote (I don't think its even based on exit polls, but rather what people said they were going to do). That figure would put turnout lower than the 2015 election, its blatantly rubbish.
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I guess if people are going to cast aspersions about peoples intelligence, they should probably realise what it is they're actually looking at first.
 
#07 said:
The whole problem with this debate is the experts have been continually ignored.

The Bank of England, the Treasury, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the International Monetary Fund...all of them said Brexit would be bad for us. They all did projections of how bad. Nobody listened. It was all 'project fear'. Now the s-t is hitting the fan, they are all being proved right, and people want to trust the experts now? The experts they just rejected last week?
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Yet Mark Carney is now saying the BoE are prepared for any fall out from Brexit so there's a shift right there. Also, let's not forget Obama saying the UK would have to go to the back of the queue in terms of negotiating a trade deal with the US if we vote to come out, only to admit afterwards that there was no queue in the first place and now he wants to maintain our "special relationship".

It seems to me that a lot of the rhetoric - on both sides - was too political and while I fully accept that Brexit is a leap into the unknown, there truly is no previous precedent and therefore no amount of expert opinion - regardless of which side it was backing - can actually predict what is going to happen. Too many people who spoke about it had a vested interest IMO and that's why I went elsewhere for information.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I guess if people are going to cast aspersions about peoples intelligence, they should probably realise what it is they're actually looking at first.
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Agreed in principle, but that one is a hard one as it was posted as fact around the internet. It's when you explain that something was a lie (NHS money for ex.) and get met with doubt and disbelief...
 
M18CTID said:
Yet Mark Carney is now saying the BoE are prepared for any fall out from Brexit so there's a shift right there. Also, let's not forget Obama saying the UK would have to go to the back of the queue in terms of negotiating a trade deal with the US if we vote to come out, only to admit afterwards that there was no queue in the first place and now he wants to maintain our "special relationship".

It seems to me that a lot of the rhetoric - on both sides - was too political and while I fully accept that Brexit is a leap into the unknown, there truly is no previous precedent and therefore no amount of expert opinion - regardless of which side it was backing - can actually predict what is going to happen. Too many people who spoke about it had a vested interest IMO and that's why I went elsewhere for information.
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Carney and Osborne have to try and reassure the markets to prevent a fully fledged panic. What you see as rhetoric is an attempt to convince investors, many of whom do not need to invest their money in the UK, that they don't need to take their cash out of our country and our companies.

It was Carney's offer of £250 billion in liquidity, not his nice words, that stopped the market tanking on Friday. Osborne's words held the tide back for like two hours, turn around and Barclays and RBS shares have been suspended.

Investors will only take nice words for so long.

@x42bn6 The negative equity that would ensue from that would leave thousands of families subject to repossessions and being thrown out on the street. No government, either politically or in good conscience, could implement a policy that they knew would make thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, homeless. As I'm sure you are aware, one of the reasons the Bank and the Government have tackled he deficit in the way they have is to prevent mass repossessions.
 
Cartoon in the Times saves time on reading the rest of the news


Great summary from The Times
 
M18CTID said:
Yet Mark Carney is now saying the BoE are prepared for any fall out from Brexit so there's a shift right there. Also, let's not forget Obama saying the UK would have to go to the back of the queue in terms of negotiating a trade deal with the US if we vote to come out, only to admit afterwards that there was no queue in the first place and now he wants to maintain our "special relationship".

It seems to me that a lot of the rhetoric - on both sides - was too political and while I fully accept that Brexit is a leap into the unknown, there truly is no previous precedent and therefore no amount of expert opinion - regardless of which side it was backing - can actually predict what is going to happen. Too many people who spoke about it had a vested interest IMO and that's why I went elsewhere for information.
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The tone is different as things are different now, they are no longer trying to scare they are trying to calm...
 
#07 said:
He has said these things would be necessary, and he was asked directly in his news conference if he takes any of it back and he said no.

Just because he's not going to do it now doesn't mean it won't be necessary if indeed there's a £30 billion hole in the public finances. He's basically saying, I'll leave that to the guy who comes after me.

I can't believe that, after what has happened since Friday's market turmoil, people still think this is all 'project fear'.
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Easier to bury your head in the sand now the damage is done and wait for the experts and the "middle class elite" to sort it out.
 
Gol123 said:
The Leave campaign has opened up a gateway in which people see racism and xenophobia as perfectly normal. So much hate crime is now commonplace in the UK it's ridiculous. We are dangerously close to a Nazi Germany regime, it's quite scary.
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"This is exactly how Nazi Germany started..."

Finally we can say that on the CAF and it's not actually tongue in cheek.
 
The way a lot of people seem to be talking about leaving the country post Brexit keeps making me think of the verse at the beginning of Public Enemies - Fight The Power

Yet our best trained, best educated, best equipped, best prepared troops refuse to fight. As a matter of fact, it’s safe to say that they would rather switch than fight
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Berbaclass said:
The way a lot of people seem to be talking about leaving the country post Brexit keeps making me think of the verse at the beginning of Public Enemies - Fight The Power
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I've seen this sort of thing popping up over Facebook the last week and it's weak at best. I can't understand the notion that people should accept that their future is fecked, forcing them into a recession they voted against, reducing the value of their savings/mortgage/pension etc and also force it on their children. There is no fight against the power here, the power made some claims that were immediately debunked over and over and the people refused to accept it. The fight is against the people, not the power.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
"This is exactly how Nazi Germany started..."

Finally we can say that on the CAF and it's not actually tongue in cheek.
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It's really bad. Hundreds of reports of immigrants and British citizens of different ethnicits being heckled in the street and being told they should be scared as they will be kicked out soon. The thing is, these people are sighting multiple different occasions where this has happened to them since the referendum.
 
Zarlak said:
I've seen this sort of thing popping up over Facebook the last week and it's weak at best. I can't understand the notion that people should accept that their future is fecked, forcing them into a recession they voted against, reducing the value of their savings/mortgage/pension etc and also force it on their children. There is no fight against the power here, the power made some claims that were immediately debunked over and over and the people refused to accept it. The fight is against the people, not the power.
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I agree I don't think the answer is to leave the country or fight the government as it's not really their fault.
 
Gol123 said:
It's really bad. Hundreds of reports of immigrants and British citizens of different ethnicits being heckled in the street and being told they should be scared as they will be kicked out soon. The thing is, these people are sighting multiple different occasions where this has happened to them since the referendum.
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Its genuinely terrifying.
 
The UK need a strong leader and government now to tell them this bigotry is absolutely unacceptable and instances will be punished severely. Too many people believe Farage has given them free reign to be racist scumbags.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Of course he HAS to say that, what else do you expect him to say to the market? The UK is falling to shit in the markets, they have to try and reassure them or it'd be recession within a few days.

Hilarious that you think he should now stick to his "we're fecked" line :lol:
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you cant have recession within days, its 2 negative months back to back
 
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