Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Miller said he voted to leave because he thought Brussels imposed some “silly” laws on the UK. “Why should we be dominated by them?” But he also had an unusual main reason for supporting leave. “I follow the prophesies in the Bible and a split in Europe was prophesied. Europe will never unite again. God has said so.”
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'It’s a fudge – not what we voted for': the Brexit view from Shropshire ~

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ZKHGQLU7Dzl4SMXy_tn8hjeMwdBKV9Q4yV7OvNT5NzVoI
 
CA_vampire said:
Without structure and coordination armies are very ineffective.

If you add 27 countries and languages, it is actually quite complicated.
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The default language in NATO is of course English and to be fair working with them I have never encountered any issues in co-ordinating things... Not to say it can't happen and it couldbt be better but in my experience the structure there works well

I do wonder though in an EU army... And intact in EU institutions in general when (if?) The UK leaves will they start to have french fr German as the primary communication language?
 
Turbulent week ahead possibly. Looks like May could be hit with a vote of no confidence tomorrow, but if she manages to ride it she cant be hit with another one for a year. The Brexit deal is widely expected to be rejected in the commons, and its probable that the DUP will withdraw their support, leaving the tories without a majority government. Tories reportedly do not expect to win an election with May as leader (believable), which makes me wonder if she will have lost her governments backing by the end of the week. Lots of ifs and buts, but I think she's finished.
 
sun_tzu said:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...e-things-weve-learned-about-public-opinion-br

There really Isn't a clear way forwards

Perhaps we should just build a wall down the middle of the country... The west stays in Europe and the east leaves with no deal... And people move where they want... Yes it's impractical unworkable in reality and would be unpopular... But looking at those polls so is
2nd referendum (which looks unlikely to deliver anything other than a very close result)
Staying in the EU
Leaving with this deal
Renegotiation of the deal
And no deal

I recall reading the Republic by Plato and him saying democracy is doomed to fail

Might have been onto something as it does seem fertile ground for some despotic populist (a UK trump if you will) to come to power
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The problem with that is that it assumes that the EU would be willing to renegotiate. I think patience on that side of the border is running thin

In my opinion the UK should ask the EU if and in what terms the UK will be in if they decide not to leave the EU. Then a second referendum should be set offering the following

A- No deal brexit
B- leaving the EU on the deal negotiated by TM
C- staying in the EU on the conditions discussed and agreed upon with the EU
 
sun_tzu said:
The default language in NATO is of course English and to be fair working with them I have never encountered any issues in co-ordinating things... Not to say it can't happen and it couldbt be better but in my experience the structure there works well

I do wonder though in an EU army... And intact in EU institutions in general when (if?) The UK leaves will they start to have french fr German as the primary communication language?
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English isn't necessarily the primary language in EU insitutions, for example the ECJ works in french.
 
devilish said:
The problem with that is that it assumes that the EU would be willing to renegotiate. I think patience on that side of the border is running thin

In my opinion the UK should ask the EU if and in what terms the UK will be in if they decide not to leave the EU. Then a second referendum should be set offering the following

A- No deal brexit
B- leaving the EU on the deal negotiated by TM
C- staying in the EU on the conditions discussed and agreed upon with the EU
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3 options....
Just hypothetical
33%,32%35%
65% have voted Leave and we remain... Seems unlikely they would offer 3 votes And if they did I guess it might have to be single transferable vote

I honestly think leave with no deal then start to negotiate seems the most likley... It's a rubbish solution but given the timescales and a lack of clear direction (from the UK side) it seems the most likley
 
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Drifter said:
Second EU referendum 'not an option for today', says Jeremy Corbyn

https://news.sky.com/story/second-eu-referendum-not-an-option-for-today-says-jeremy-corbyn-11557192

As close as you are going to get to a answer to a second referendum from Corbyn.
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I know he says he wants a ge and that is labour policy
Fair enough... They might be one called in a few weeks
So fundamental question... Would a 2nd referendum be in labours manifesto

I suspect as he won't even say how he would vote he's just going to avoid giving an opinion...

Straight forward honest politics indeed
 
To be honest, a second referendum will never pass parliament until it becomes clear we are crashing out.
 
devilish said:
The problem with that is that it assumes that the EU would be willing to renegotiate. I think patience on that side of the border is running thin

In my opinion the UK should ask the EU if and in what terms the UK will be in if they decide not to leave the EU. Then a second referendum should be set offering the following

A- No deal brexit
B- leaving the EU on the deal negotiated by TM
C- staying in the EU on the conditions discussed and agreed upon with the EU
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C would obviously win, as leavers would be split between A & B .

Nice try.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Turbulent week ahead possibly. Looks like May could be hit with a vote of no confidence tomorrow, but if she manages to ride it she cant be hit with another one for a year. The Brexit deal is widely expected to be rejected in the commons, and its probable that the DUP will withdraw their support, leaving the tories without a majority government. Tories reportedly do not expect to win an election with May as leader (believable), which makes me wonder if she will have lost her governments backing by the end of the week. Lots of ifs and buts, but I think she's finished.
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Yeah, she's surely done for. Will be replaced by a Brexiteer, who will then push ahead with 'no deal' (no time to start negotiations from scratch). Said Brexiteer will then blame the ensuing chaos on the EU.
 
sun_tzu said:
3 options....
Just hypothetical
33%,32%35%
65% have voted Leave and we remain... Seems unlikely they would offer 3 votes And if they did I guess it might have to be single transferable vote

I honestly think leave with no deal then start to negotiate seems the most likley... It's a rubbish solution but given the timescales and a lack of clear direction (from the UK side) it seems the most likley
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Crashing out without a deal would be devastating for the UK. It would put them into such desperate situation that they would sign anything thrown at them to get out of the situation they will be in. Brexiteers would be mad to go for it.
 
devilish said:
Honestly I think the EU is way better off without the UK so no 'nice try' at all. I only listed all the options the UK has at the moment.
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The EU isn't better off without us, and TM's deal is not an option, as it will be rejected by just about everyone.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
:lol:

Two leave options and one remain option. Pretty obvious what the percentages would favour.
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Read the edit which makes it clear (as I knew I'd need to based on caftards inability to read posts and infer intended meaning)

The second vote is used if leave wins. It's not 3 options FFS. It's clarification on leave...

You vote for yes or no. And then you vote for what would happen if leave wins.

For you that would be leave, leave with no deal.
For me that would be remain, leave with deal.

vidic blood & sand said:
The EU isn't better off without us, and TM's deal is not an option, as it will be rejected by just about everyone.
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So why is it a nice try if you think no one would go for Mays deal, therefore no split vote?
 
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afrocentricity said:
Read the edit which makes it clear (as I knew I'd need to ;))

You vote for yes or no. And then you vote for what would happen if leave wins.

For you that would be leave, leave with no deal.
For me that would be remain, leave with deal.


So why is it a nice try if you think no one go for Mays deal, therefore no split vote?
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It wasn't needed, your booleans were on point.
 
Kentonio said:
You’re right that the second part should have just been ‘if the vote is leave, would you prefer May’s deal or no deal’. As for all the ‘why nots’ you posed, I’m just interested in the simplest most effective answer. You could quibble about variations until the cows come home, but the one I suggested covers the bases in a way that would be fair to both sides. You certainly can’t have a 3 answer question like the one you suggested because it would be a flagrant attempt to rig the vote for Remain.
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This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
 
Raabs doing his pitch for the leadership on the Andrew maar show right now

The EU bullied may into a deal... I can't sign up the country I love into this deal

Avoiding the would you stand in a leadership election question... I am not getting sucked into answering that ..

Yup he's in full campaign mode
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The EU isn't better off without us, and TM's deal is not an option, as it will be rejected by just about everyone.
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I think it will in the long term. The UK is no friend of the EU or Europe for all that matters. With the UK out of the way we would have one less enemy within/US lackey to work with. Regarding your second part, well the EU had agreed with TM's withdrawal deal. Id say let the UK electorate vote between this deal, a no deal and staying in the EU.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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You're not understanding the questions. Maybe you had the same problems trying to understand the intricacies of Brexit?

Slow down. Work through the questions for every possibility, and then come back...
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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Genuine question. Are you reading the posts you're replying to or just assuming they say what you want them to?
 
devilish said:
I think it will in the long term. The UK is no friend of the EU or Europe for all that matters. With the UK out of the way we would have one less enemy within/US lackey to work with. Regarding your second part, well the EU had agreed with TM's withdrawal deal. Id say let the UK electorate vote between this deal, a no deal and staying in the EU.
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If this was true, why would anyone want to remain in the EU?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Obviously if you divide leave options in two, you're lessen the chances of a leave outcome.
I added that this kind of vote would never happen because its DOA in the commons.
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Leave isn't divided, it's two different questions with two different options. The second question is only relevant in one scenario, if leave wins the first binary question.

It's the same format than:

Do you want to go to the cinema or bowling?
If you want to go to the cinema which movie do you want to see, Spiderman or Batman?
 
NinjaFletch said:
Genuine question. Are you reading the posts you're replying to or just assuming they say what you want them to?
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Pay attention, fletch.

devilish said:
The problem with that is that it assumes that the EU would be willing to renegotiate. I think patience on that side of the border is running thin

In my opinion the UK should ask the EU if and in what terms the UK will be in if they decide not to leave the EU. Then a second referendum should be set offering the following

A- No deal brexit
B- leaving the EU on the deal negotiated by TM
C- staying in the EU on the conditions discussed and agreed upon with the EU
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How many leave options are there?
How many remain options are there?

What would the likely outcome be if a leave vote was divided?
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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How is it the best solution? Maybe the only solution but best? :wenger:

Just the poor getting fecked over by the rich and powerful again. No doubt there'll be an exchange of money/power from the poor to the rich while this all works itself out...

Anyway just wanted to say, that bolded bit doesn't cut it. If the leavers don't care how we leave or how it affects people then maybe we should use the 3 questions for vote alternative so they have to actually put some thought into it, and you know, seek information rather than feck themselves by splitting their vote.

Fed up of the apologists just accepting feckries from leavers.
-Don't call them thick they were tricked.
-They're not bigots/xenophobes it's just those on social media.
-They don't care about minutia... So we have to accept that and work around it.

Bollocks... And yes I woke up on the wrong side of the bed...
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Pay attention, fletch.



How many leave options are there?
How many remain options are there?

What would the likely outcome be if a leave vote was divided?
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I don't have a clue about that and honestly this argument has nothing to do with the issue at all. The electorate should have all the options available to him and all the information needed to make an informed decision
 
sun_tzu said:
To be honest I think any 3 option vote would have to be single transferable vote so you end up with a 50%+
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I disagree. Why would the vote of those who want to leave with a deal be transferred to those who want to leave without a deal? As if someone who want to remove an ingrown toe nail would be more then happy to amputate a leg if his preferred option is not available to him.
 
devilish said:
I don't have a clue about that and honestly this argument has nothing to do with the issue at all. The electorate should have all the options available to him and all the information needed to make an informed decision
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I understand that it was an honest idea to give the electorate some feasible options, but the maths would obviously favour remain with your example. That's all.
 
devilish said:
I disagree. Why would the vote of those who want to leave with a deal be transferred to those who want to leave without a deal? As if someone who want to remove an ingrown toe nail would be more then happy to amputate a leg if his preferred option is not available to him.
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You haven't been following this closely enough mate. There are people who would literally choose to regress to a third world country if it meant we "control our borders" and "make our own laws".


Something I haven't seen discussed yet is how we're going to police our fishing waters. There's already an issue with French, Spanish and Dutch trawlers encroaching into British waters. The UK Government even sold a large portion of the UK fishing quotas to a Dutch company, something that wasn't forced by the EU in any way shape or form and is a perfect example of the UK blaming the EU for it's own greed and stupidity.

So what's going to happen when these huge trawlers come into our waters and scoop up all our fish? Which court are we going to take that to? We're probably going to have to spend an absolute fortune building a border force which protects our coastlines and fishing industry. Much cheaper and safer to be under the same arm of EU law.
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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Why do you imagine the EU would allow the UK back in after a hugely disruptive exit?
 
Sky1981 said:
This serves nothing. The leavers as it is doesn't care if you leave with may or without may's deal.

It doesnt work.

Imho the best solution is to exit eu totally. Feel the pinch. Reenter the eu in 2 or 3 years without referendum etc. Just made it an executive decision.
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This is a fantasy.
 
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