Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Berbaclass]

 

[#07]

Scapegoating for what?

It means in blunt terms, that unless we get a favourable deal, we shall take our time enacting Article 50 and you are fecked.

@Cristiano_RAFC

It just means that we are in a better position in this game of brinksmanship that you are seeing played out. I voted remain but now we are out I want to see us get the best deal possible, obviously.

Didn't Yanis Varoufakis think this as well? Not saying we're Greece but it seems to me that the Eurofederalists will do anything they can to hurt us. None of them wants the EU's members to think you could leave and actually end up better off. We haven't just left the EU, we have created a new enemy. The priests of the ever closer Union religion will do their utmost to see us go down in flames.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You will have to negotiate a trade deal with those whom you are planning to keep in hostage and that's while all the world (is countries you will be attempting to make trade deals with in the future) will be watching. Seriously mate that's one he'll of bad decision

It isn't holding anyone hostage. It is coming to a mutually beneficial agreement, all things considered.

 

[Crackers]

Source on the 43% claim? I think you've misread what this article said:



Thats the turnout for the 2015 General election.

I remember seeing it somewhere I think, I'll go dig it up.

 

[devilish]

Based on the back of a campaign riddled with out and out lies.

Hence why I wonder why no one in politics has even suggested a second referendum just yet. However what @Classical Mechanic suggesting is to attempt to keep anot entire continent hostage for something you voted for. That's while all businesses and the world are watching. That's suicide

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Has anyone got an estimate of what the swing would have like if more youth had voted? 43% or so voted, compared to an turnout of 80%+ for the older demographics. Had 80%+ of younger generations voted, would it have been a confident yes vote?

I'd imagine it would have swung well to remain. Most kids only know the EU and a lot think of themselves as European. It is the older generation who are still clinging onto the so called 'good old days' that are the problem.

 

[Jippy]

Haven't read beyond the first paragraph but generally that's how I feel.

This is incredibly un-British and spineless. I feel alienated from a massive amount of people in the UK.

I dunno, we have a large element of scummy, lazy, bigoted people in our society who have an incredible sense of entitlement.

 

[SteveJ]

Stupidest electorate too?

It's not as straightforward as that, I think. It isn't even that people are too lazy to think deeply anymore. I believe there's a despair within our society, a loss of faith in everything from the longevity of relationships to our public institutions and their servants. Plus, we have a culture in which people feel the need to make a show of their anger, however reckless the action: from voting without considering the consequences, to road rage incidents, to social media feuds, to the inevitable bloodymindedness of Leave voters if we even get a second referendum; many people are so bereft of the essential happiness of life that they even lack care for themselves.

 

[Adisa]

Cameron needs to be cut some slack. He made some crucial mistakes but let's remember he put his soul and reputation on remain.

Its Boris and Gove that need to be vilified.

Dave called the referendum because he didn't have the galls to stand up to his own backbench.
He put his heart and soul into o it because his Career was on the line.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Wonder how many voted leave on Thursday.

Probably a few and this is the only way they can try to ease their conscience.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I remember seeing it somewhere I think, I'll go dig it up.

Ok. I'll be amazed if its true. My social circles are almost exclusively 18-24 and I've never, ever, seen them so concerned about politics. Might not be representative of the UK as a whole. But I'd be shocked if the % vote was the same as the general election.

 

[devilish]

It isn't holding anyone hostage. It is coming to a mutually beneficial agreement, all things considered.

You voted to leave. Now start the process and the eu will negotiate after that. If Britain use article 50 as some bargaining chip then rest assured that the world will take notice. No one will give your word much worth after that. It's already bad enough that you deserted an entire continent in its time of weakness

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Probably a few and this is the only way they can try to ease their conscience.

Reckon a lot more than a few, I'm assuming not, but if there is any way at all they should do it again.

 

[sincher]

It's not as straightforward as that, I think. It isn't even that people are too lazy to think deeply anymore. I believe there's a despair within our society, a loss of faith in everything from the longevity of relationships to our public institutions and their servants. Plus, we have a culture in which people feel the need to make a show of their anger, however reckless the action: from voting without considering the consequences, to road rage incidents, to social media feuds, to the inevitable bloodymindedness of Leave voters if we even get a second referendum; many people are so bereft of the essential happiness of life that they even lack care for themselves.

For the sake of balance, there are also some Leave voters who simply think the EU hasn't worked and will not work, and who think we need to restore full nation level democracy. It is not entirely about the class divide, xenophobia etc.

 

[SteveJ]

For the sake of balance, there are also some Leave voters who simply think the EU hasn't worked and will not work, and who think we need to restore full nation level democracy. It is not entirely about the class divide, xenophobia etc.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I just think it's far too simple a conclusion to say that 'All Leavers are stupid'.

 

[Berbaclass]

Cameron is in favour or remaining right? So why can't he call another one? Its obvious to see that people are backing this in numbers.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Perhaps. Which would be a quite bad thing.

The EU started as a trade confederation but also the goal was stopping the wars in Europe. No EU country has gone to war since.

EU getting destroyed would be a bad thing in every aspect. Not only it will be a victory for racists and has all the economical consequences, but in long term it can open all kinds of problems.

I just don't see that happening. The rise of the right in Europe is a transitional phase whilst people get used to a massive influx of refugees. So long as integration happens those suspicions and sentiments will disappear through thr generations IMO. Remember a lot of the Eastern European nations are largely homogeneous, it is a major culture shock.

Didn't Yanis Varoufakis think this as well? Not saying we're Greece but it seems to me that the Eurofederalists will do anything they can to hurt us. None of them wants the EU's members to think you could leave and actually end up better off. We haven't just left the EU, we have created a new enemy. The priests of the ever closer Union religion will do their utmost to see us go down in flames.

We are as far removed from Greece as it is possible to be. 2nd largest economy, only other net contributer along with Germany. The EU is in very bad shape because of countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain. We were the only nation with a totally positive economic contribution other than Germany.

 

[Adisa]

For the sake of balance, there are also some Leave voters who simply think the EU hasn't worked and will not work, and who think we need to restore full nation level democracy. It is not entirely about the class divide, xenophobia etc.

Those people are in the extreme minority.

 

[DenisIrwin]

There's a Remain bias in this thread. It's quite understandable. Almost half of the people that voted were in favour of Remain. They're unhappy because the Leave voters won. Those that voted Leave are far less likely to post. They won, so are looking forward, not back. What we are seeing is foot-stamping and tantrums. It won't do any good, although it might be a comfort to know that literally millions of people feel just as pissed off. It's time to gather up the toys and put them back in the pram.

 

[Fully Fledged]

It isn't holding anyone hostage. It is coming to a mutually beneficial agreement, all things considered.

We don't come to any agreement until after article 50 has been invoked. We then have 2 years to come to an agreement.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You voted to leave. Now start the process and the eu will negotiate after that. If Britain use article 50 as some bargaining chip then rest assured that the world will take notice. No one will give your word much worth after that. It's already bad enough that you deserted an entire continent in its time of weakness

Blame Boris and Rupert Murdoch, not me!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Those people are in the extreme minority.

It is difficult to work out some of the reasoning of the leave vote. Some areas we know it is xenophobia, we have been left in no doubt about that. Even xenophobia from minorities against other minorities which seems the height of hypocrisy. The others areas who are very reliant on EU subsidies for their jobs have voted to leave, do they realise that if that money is not replaced their jobs could be gone? Baffling.

 

[Berbaclass]

There's a Remain bias in this thread. It's quite understandable. Almost half of the people that voted were in favour of Remain. They're unhappy because the Leave voters won. Those that voted Leave are far less likely to post. They won, so are looking forward, not back. What we are seeing is foot-stamping and tantrums. It won't do any good, although it might be a comfort to know that literally millions of people feel just as pissed off. It's time to gather up the toys and put them back in the pram.

People are very much entitled to be angry, there is a lot at stake here...

 

[horsechoker]

There's a Remain bias in this thread. It's quite understandable. Almost half of the people that voted were in favour of Remain. They're unhappy because the Leave voters won. Those that voted Leave are far less likely to post. They won, so are looking forward, not back. What we are seeing is foot-stamping and tantrums. It won't do any good, although it might be a comfort to know that literally millions of people feel just as pissed off. It's time to gather up the toys and put them back in the pram.

I can understand the anger from some considering the leave campaign said one thing and meant another.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Cameron needs to be cut some slack. He made some crucial mistakes but let's remember he put his soul and reputation on remain.

Its Boris and Gove that need to be vilified.

i think you could argue that the way working class has been treated during Camerons time in office has had a direct relationship to people voting out.....

So I dont think we should be holding Cameron up as a great prime minister or a big loss to the country..... course he is still better then Borris....

 

[TheNewEra]

There's a Remain bias in this thread. It's quite understandable. Almost half of the people that voted were in favour of Remain. They're unhappy because the Leave voters won. Those that voted Leave are far less likely to post. They won, so are looking forward, not back. What we are seeing is foot-stamping and tantrums. It won't do any good, although it might be a comfort to know that literally millions of people feel just as pissed off. It's time to gather up the toys and put them back in the pram.

It's a big issue though is it not? when you consider a lot of the people who voted leave were working class, the people with a higher standard of education working in creative sectors of scientific fields we could see strikes or industrial action over the referendum.

I know a few people in Scotland and the UK who are looking to other shores now for work because they don't like what the country has become.

A friend of mine who voted against Scottish independence and voted remain on the 23rd its not happy with the English or Welsh right now and it's not a United Kingdom anymore.

The leave voters have been lied to on-top of this issue, a lot of people didn't make an educated informed choice, and I feel like my future children and family pays the price? no thanks! I'll be moving country before then.

 

[TheNewEra]

i think you could argue that the way working class has been treated during Camerons time in office has had a direct relationship to people voting out.....

So I dont think we should be holding Cameron up as a great prime minister or a big loss to the country..... course he is still better then Borris....

The issue with Cameron is he didn't campaign enough, he should have been out there in the closing stages of the big vote like on the last nights and fought his case.

He put himself before the country in that case, I feel the leaders of this country, Tony Blair, Brown, and Cameron... all spineless and who is the next leader of Britain? there's nobody capable.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

i think you could argue that the way working class has been treated during Camerons time in office has had a direct relationship to people voting out.....

So I dont think we should be holding Cameron up as a great prime minister or a big loss to the country..... course he is still better then Borris....

It also the fact that the Leave voters think that Farage, Gove and Johnson are all for the working class. They are even more right wing entitled than Cameron. The working class, minorities will soon be put back in their place.

 

[Minimalist]

There's a Remain bias in this thread. It's quite understandable. Almost half of the people that voted were in favour of Remain. They're unhappy because the Leave voters won. Those that voted Leave are far less likely to post. They won, so are looking forward, not back. What we are seeing is foot-stamping and tantrums. It won't do any good, although it might be a comfort to know that literally millions of people feel just as pissed off. It's time to gather up the toys and put them back in the pram.

The leave side literally don't have a clue what they want to do now. That is not forward thinking. And your post is flippant.

This has divided the entire UK and quite frankly, the uninformed and ignorant have 'won'. Don't expect me to lie down and accept this regression.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's not as straightforward as that, I think. It isn't even that people are too lazy to think deeply anymore. I believe there's a despair within our society, a loss of faith in everything from the longevity of relationships to our public institutions and their servants. Plus, we have a culture in which people feel the need to make a show of their anger, however reckless the action: from voting without considering the consequences, to road rage incidents, to social media feuds, to the inevitable bloodymindedness of Leave voters if we even get a second referendum; many people are so bereft of the essential happiness of life that they even lack care for themselves.

It's as confusing as trying to understand depression in people who appear to have everything from the outside. We have more money and more possibilities than ever in 2016 yet people seem more and more frustrated & angry about everything.

Is it the detachment from nature? Is it the rise of the internet and too much information/opinions for many people to handle?

 

[TheNewEra]

It also the fact that the Leave voters think that Farage, Gove and Johnson are all for the working class. They are even more right wing entitled than Cameron. The working class, minorities will soon be put back in their place.

In any country this large there's always going to be people "worse off". Just like world famine can't be solved, people that shop at Primark for instance there's someone there in a sweatshop doing the dirty work.

It's sad but the working class do have opportunities, access to education, funding, government schemes to change that if they wanted to.

The Working class does feel ignored, I have family who voted leave who are near retirement age, it's very difficult for them to even get rights to buy a house because of laws.

From my experience the working class will change everything around them, but not themselves in a world with support allowances, free health care it could be worse.

A change for Britain in the face of Brexit won't change their circumstances at all.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's as confusing as trying to understand depression in people who appear to have everything from the outside. We have more money and more possibilities than ever in 2016 yet people seem more and more frustrated & angry about everything.

Is it the detachment from nature? Is it the rise of the internet and too much information/opinions for many people to handle?

Thats much easier: depression is a mental illness and not just 'I feel a bit sad'.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

It also the fact that the Leave voters think that Farage, Gove and Johnson are all for the working class. They are even more right wing entitled than Cameron. The working class, minorities will soon be put back in their place.

no one thinks Farage or Borris are working class, a death giraffe could hear their accent and tell they where toffs.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I just don't see that happening. The rise of the right in Europe is a transitional phase whilst people get used to a massive influx of refugees. So long as integration happens those suspicions and sentiments will disappear through thr generations IMO. Remember a lot of the Eastern European nations are largely homogeneous, it is a major culture shock.



We are as far removed from Greece as it is possible to be. 2nd largest economy, only other net contributer along with Germany. The EU is in very bad shape because of countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain. We were the only nation with a totally positive economic contribution other than Germany.

3rd. France went back above during the fallout yesterday.

 

[the hea]

We are as far removed from Greece as it is possible to be. 2nd largest economy, only other net contributer along with Germany. The EU is in very bad shape because of countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain. We were the only nation with a totally positive economic contribution other than Germany.

You can stop with the lies now that you have won, Besides Germay and the UK, Belgium, Denmark, France, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Austria, Finland and Sweden are all net contributors to the EU budget.
http://english.eu.dk/en/faq/faq/net_contribution

 

[Grinner]

What is the actual legal process for holding a referendum?

 

[TheNewEra]

The leave side literally don't have a clue what they want to do now. That is not forward thinking. And your post is flippant.

This has divided the entire UK and quite frankly, the uninformed and ignorant have 'won'. Don't expect me to lie down and accept this regression.

As I've put here multiple times, Finland has it right with a future committee, the UK has no clue from one month to the next.

http://www.fdsd.org/ideas/the-committee-for-the-future-finnish-parliament/

Although quite a bit is to do with technology its also decision making of short-term vs long-term and looking forward.

Here we are still as a nation recovering from 2008 still. the NHS is in a bad state, education is still not in a great state.

There needs to be a HUGE reform in the Government of the UK a lot of it works, a lot of it doesn't.

Even Switzerland work smarter than the UK it's a time for reform in Government first of all.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

In any country this large there's always going to be people "worse off". Just like world famine can't be solved, people that shop at Primark for instance there's someone there in a sweatshop doing the dirty work.

It's sad but the working class do have opportunities, access to education, funding, government schemes to change that if they wanted to.

The Working class does feel ignored, I have family who voted leave who are near retirement age, it's very difficult for them to even get rights to buy a house because of laws.

From my experience the working class will change everything around them, but not themselves in a world with support allowances, free health care it could be worse.

A change for Britain in the face of Brexit won't change their circumstances at all.

This country has always been a place where you can improve yourself if you have the motivation. Some of our richest people started with next to nothing. I would have said leaving the EU and denying people, especially young people the opportunity to work easily abroad is going to hold people back. The worse thing that could happen is the highly skilled leaving these shores for good.

 

[NinjaZombie]

It chars my heart to always hear you calling, calling for the good old days. Cause there were no good old days. These are the good old days.

This song has been in my head since Brexit became a reality.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

As I've put here multiple times, Finland has it right with a future committee, the UK has no clue from one month to the next.

http://www.fdsd.org/ideas/the-committee-for-the-future-finnish-parliament/

Although quite a bit is to do with technology its also decision making of short-term vs long-term and looking forward.

Here we are still as a nation recovering from 2008 still. the NHS is in a bad state, education is still not in a great state.

There needs to be a HUGE reform in the Government of the UK a lot of it works, a lot of it doesn't.

Even Switzerland work smarter than the UK it's a time for reform in Government first of all.

I think a lot of our problems is how the voting system works, parties that spend most of their times taking potshots are their own party colleagues instead of working for the people they are supposed to represent. That is and has never been down to the EU.