Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
All I’ve read so far in 2021 is business hit by red tape. Some Japanese firms planned ahead:



I do find myself wondering what the number of job losses will be due to Brexit. I’ve got a feeling that the impact of COVID and Brexit will kill some big retailers like M&S.
 
What was your answer? Did he consider the time consumed between not having to fill them and having to do it thousands of times per year and then adding the fact that they will/can be checked.
I told him he doesn't understand supply chain logistics and left it at that. Couldn't be bothered to elaborate.
 
Yeah, I agree he is probably thick. But the UKIP guys, they were selling lies like hot cakes.

The only way Leave could win was if they told lies. As the truth gradually unfolds people will realise it, not necessarily admitting that they had been duped.

Additionally the Leave campaigners themselves didn't have a clue what Leave actually meant but that was not a problem, they just said what they thought people wanted to hear. Facts were completely irrelevant.

People are acting surprised by the initial problems, but if anyone had listened to people who knew what they were talking about, this wouldn't have happened and there are a lot more yet to surface

The problem was that they were never seriously challenged and this is vital, never tolerate lies and ignorance, it has to be challenged incessantly.
 
So, has anyone else bought something from the EU since the 1st of January and been hit with import charges like me?
 
My point is that they voted this way partly thinking their lives can't possibly get any worse. Their lives can very demonstrably get worse. Not quite in the remainer fantasy where the UK crashes and burns. But little things. Their weekly food shop becomes more expensive. Their time in between jobs becomes longer. Their benefits no longer covers as much as it used to. Their one holiday they went on every year/ few years now becomes much more expensive/ impossible. More shops will close on their high street.

I agree with your second paragraph in a way and I remember wondering and saying during those votes whether remainers would, in failing to support a lighter deal, contribute to leading us down the road to a much harsher deal.

The 'other side' were never ever going to agree to withdrawing A50 or to have a rethink. For so many of their most fervent proponents, even the mention of a 2nd referendum was akin to treason and they and the media had whipped the population up into believing their rhetoric. Some of these people had dedicated their entire political lives to this moment, they weren't going to give it up easily.

By that point, it was all about 'get brexit done', not any kind of nuanced discussion on our future relationship with our biggest trading partners and a group of countries that should include amongst them our very closest friends.

Weekly food shop was already too high for many, foodbanks became the norm in many areas;
Unemployment was worsening, zero hours contracts became more prevalent. They were ok for some who need the working time flexibility, not for those with families who need working hours (paid)certainty;
Universal Benefits are already in place giving a much narrow range of benefits to many in these deprived areas, on worsening protocols;
Even families (with 2.4 kids) with both parents working could not afford holidays, time-off as well as financial restrictions;
Shops closing virtually every week, also including Post Offices and Banks, even some ATMs were removed in specific areas.

When did you ever hear a remain campaigner saying to people in such as these areas, that things will get better if we stay in the EU; all they offered was more of the same, or warnings of dire consequences, or 'project fear' as the Brexiteers gleefully seized upon and named such warnings.

Yes its true all the above may well get worse as 'fall out' from Brexit, but for people who were already at the sharp end of the above, and had been for sometime, then telling them to vote remain, (in effect for more of the same) was a nonsense. Brexit was offering 'a change' and for those in the above situations it was 'an idea whose time had come'.

Realistically Labour should have romped home in both post and pre referendum GE's, but with Corbyn in charge and unable to make up their mind on the EU . Then Tories got a free ride and ultimately all but wiped out Labour in its heartlands.

When you add the above to the other reasons for voting Brexit (which many gave at the time) you can see this was the main grouping that remainers might have won over with some thought to how they campaigned. People who voted Brexit for 'sovereignty, ending free movement, control of our own laws etc. would always have voted Brexit, it was their new religion. People who wanted a better life however were never given any consideration, they either had to vote to stay as they were, or were enticed to vote for the dream, the idea whose time has come!
 
I really can't see it happening in Western Europe, if there is a nation that I think could be led out of the EU it would be the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary and maybe Greece.

I can’t see it happening anywhere to be honest - even in those countries such as Hungary where you could whip up a culture war against the EU, the financial incentive of membership is huge.
 
The only way Leave could win was if they told lies. As the truth gradually unfolds people will realise it, not necessarily admitting that they had been duped.

Additionally the Leave campaigners themselves didn't have a clue what Leave actually meant but that was not a problem, they just said what they thought people wanted to hear. Facts were completely irrelevant.

People are acting surprised by the initial problems, but if anyone had listened to people who knew what they were talking about, this wouldn't have happened and there are a lot more yet to surface

The problem was that they were never seriously challenged and this is vital, never tolerate lies and ignorance, it has to be challenged incessantly.
So so true.
 
I can’t see it happening anywhere to be honest - even in those countries such as Hungary where you could whip up a culture war against the EU, the financial incentive of membership is huge.
That's what they said about Brexit. :wenger:

Never underestimate the power of manipulation that can be used to influence people to act against their own best interest. They are paid to tell lies for a purpose.
 
That's what they said about Brexit. :wenger:

Never underestimate the power of manipulation that can be used to influence people to act against their own best interest. They are paid to tell lies for a purpose.

I know what you mean but in Hungary, for example, the ruling circle and their cronies themselves make money directly from EU grants. I am fairly sure Johnson, Gove, JRM etc would not have been pushing for Brexit if they would be hit directly.
 
You can really see the effect its having on supermarkets in NI. Lots of empty shelves in M&S and Tesco this weekend especially in fresh stuff, fruit, veg and meats. M&S published a list of 300 items that won't be available in NI for a while.
 
You can really see the effect its having on supermarkets in NI. Lots of empty shelves in M&S and Tesco this weekend especially in fresh stuff, fruit, veg and meats. M&S published a list of 300 items that won't be available in NI for a while.
I thought NI was in the customs union?
 
More win from Boris' hard fought fisheries deal?

The post-Brexit woes facing Scotland's fishing industry deepened on Saturday as its biggest logistics provider, DFDS Scotland, said it would halt exports to the European Union through one of its main services until at least Wednesday.

Previously the company had said it would take until Monday to resume its "groupage" export service - which allows exporters to ship multiple products in a single consignment - while it tries to fix IT issues, paperwork errors and a backlog of goods.

DFDS's move represents another blow for Scottish fishermen who this week warned that their businesses could become unviable after Britain shifted to a less integrated trade deal with the EU at the turn of the year.

The introduction of health certificates, customs declarations and other paperwork has added days to delivery times and hundreds of pounds to the cost of each load, undermining a system that used to put fresh seafood into French shops just over a day after it was harvested.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/scotlands-seafood-exporters-dealt-post-182349947.html
 
Weekly food shop was already too high for many, foodbanks became the norm in many areas;
Unemployment was worsening, zero hours contracts became more prevalent. They were ok for some who need the working time flexibility, not for those with families who need working hours (paid)certainty;
Universal Benefits are already in place giving a much narrow range of benefits to many in these deprived areas, on worsening protocols;
Even families (with 2.4 kids) with both parents working could not afford holidays, time-off as well as financial restrictions;
Shops closing virtually every week, also including Post Offices and Banks, even some ATMs were removed in specific areas.

When did you ever hear a remain campaigner saying to people in such as these areas, that things will get better if we stay in the EU; all they offered was more of the same, or warnings of dire consequences, or 'project fear' as the Brexiteers gleefully seized upon and named such warnings.

Yes its true all the above may well get worse as 'fall out' from Brexit, but for people who were already at the sharp end of the above, and had been for sometime, then telling them to vote remain, (in effect for more of the same) was a nonsense. Brexit was offering 'a change' and for those in the above situations it was 'an idea whose time had come'.

Realistically Labour should have romped home in both post and pre referendum GE's, but with Corbyn in charge and unable to make up their mind on the EU . Then Tories got a free ride and ultimately all but wiped out Labour in its heartlands.

When you add the above to the other reasons for voting Brexit (which many gave at the time) you can see this was the main grouping that remainers might have won over with some thought to how they campaigned. People who voted Brexit for 'sovereignty, ending free movement, control of our own laws etc. would always have voted Brexit, it was their new religion. People who wanted a better life however were never given any consideration, they either had to vote to stay as they were, or were enticed to vote for the dream, the idea whose time has come!

An excellent considered post.
 
Weekly food shop was already too high for many, foodbanks became the norm in many areas;
Unemployment was worsening, zero hours contracts became more prevalent. They were ok for some who need the working time flexibility, not for those with families who need working hours (paid)certainty;
Universal Benefits are already in place giving a much narrow range of benefits to many in these deprived areas, on worsening protocols;
Even families (with 2.4 kids) with both parents working could not afford holidays, time-off as well as financial restrictions;
Shops closing virtually every week, also including Post Offices and Banks, even some ATMs were removed in specific areas.

When did you ever hear a remain campaigner saying to people in such as these areas, that things will get better if we stay in the EU; all they offered was more of the same, or warnings of dire consequences, or 'project fear' as the Brexiteers gleefully seized upon and named such warnings.

Yes its true all the above may well get worse as 'fall out' from Brexit, but for people who were already at the sharp end of the above, and had been for sometime, then telling them to vote remain, (in effect for more of the same) was a nonsense. Brexit was offering 'a change' and for those in the above situations it was 'an idea whose time had come'.

Realistically Labour should have romped home in both post and pre referendum GE's, but with Corbyn in charge and unable to make up their mind on the EU . Then Tories got a free ride and ultimately all but wiped out Labour in its heartlands.

When you add the above to the other reasons for voting Brexit (which many gave at the time) you can see this was the main grouping that remainers might have won over with some thought to how they campaigned. People who voted Brexit for 'sovereignty, ending free movement, control of our own laws etc. would always have voted Brexit, it was their new religion. People who wanted a better life however were never given any consideration, they either had to vote to stay as they were, or were enticed to vote for the dream, the idea whose time has come!

Although I understand what you're getting at and agree with certain parts . The trouble is that there's one fateful flaw in all this.
The blame for their problems had been shifted by the government onto the EU, as has been the case for donkeys years.

So they vote to leave the EU thinking that their lives may become better but and here's the killer, at the general election they give an increased majority to the party that are actually causing their problems.
As I said before, you are in effect saying that they should be lied to because one thing is absolutely certain now, their lives will now be even worse.
 
Weekly food shop was already too high for many, foodbanks became the norm in many areas;
Unemployment was worsening, zero hours contracts became more prevalent. They were ok for some who need the working time flexibility, not for those with families who need working hours (paid)certainty;
Universal Benefits are already in place giving a much narrow range of benefits to many in these deprived areas, on worsening protocols;
Even families (with 2.4 kids) with both parents working could not afford holidays, time-off as well as financial restrictions;
Shops closing virtually every week, also including Post Offices and Banks, even some ATMs were removed in specific areas.

When did you ever hear a remain campaigner saying to people in such as these areas, that things will get better if we stay in the EU; all they offered was more of the same, or warnings of dire consequences, or 'project fear' as the Brexiteers gleefully seized upon and named such warnings.

Yes its true all the above may well get worse as 'fall out' from Brexit, but for people who were already at the sharp end of the above, and had been for sometime, then telling them to vote remain, (in effect for more of the same) was a nonsense. Brexit was offering 'a change' and for those in the above situations it was 'an idea whose time had come'.

Realistically Labour should have romped home in both post and pre referendum GE's, but with Corbyn in charge and unable to make up their mind on the EU . Then Tories got a free ride and ultimately all but wiped out Labour in its heartlands.

When you add the above to the other reasons for voting Brexit (which many gave at the time) you can see this was the main grouping that remainers might have won over with some thought to how they campaigned. People who voted Brexit for 'sovereignty, ending free movement, control of our own laws etc. would always have voted Brexit, it was their new religion. People who wanted a better life however were never given any consideration, they either had to vote to stay as they were, or were enticed to vote for the dream, the idea whose time has come!

The problem was that most of the people campaigning to remain weren't in government. So they couldn't promise that things would get better by staying in the EU, because that would be transparently misleading. Leave had the advantage that *something* was changing, so they could use that as a basis to claim that all those changes would be wildly positive for everyone, and of course anyone suggesting those changes would be bad could be easily dismissed as project fear.
 
The problem was that most of the people campaigning to remain weren't in government. So they couldn't promise that things would get better by staying in the EU, because that would be transparently misleading. Leave had the advantage that *something* was changing, so they could use that as a basis to claim that all those changes would be wildly positive for everyone, and of course anyone suggesting those changes would be bad could be easily dismissed as project fear.

the main stance of the government was to Remain. I think you are wrong.

I would say it’s the other way round. Those campaigning to leave were outside of the government, and so could promote their stance with less scrutiny.
 
the main stance of the government was to Remain. I think you are wrong.

I would say it’s the other way round. Those campaigning to leave were outside of the government, and so could promote their stance with less scrutiny.
The government 'officially' campaigned for remain, but Johnson siding with leave was a huge moment. He, nor Gove, were 'outside of the government', they were just able to propagate their lies due to the complicity of a large swathe of the press and the fact our political institutions have no teeth when it comes to holding politicians to account for blatant lying.
 
The government 'officially' campaigned for remain, but Johnson siding with leave was a huge moment. He, nor Gove, were 'outside of the government', they were just able to propagate their lies due to the complicity of a large swathe of the press and the fact our political institutions have no teeth when it comes to holding politicians to account for blatant lying.

if you were to tot up who was on each side, the numbers of MPs and those in the Cabinet were overwhelmingly in favour of Remain.

Boris was clearly a big personality, and probably won the referendum for Leave - but he was in the minority.
 
Are people in the UK experiencing any effects from Brexit, when shopping online? Or are you able to get everything easy enough from within the UK? Online shopping for me has become an absolute nightmare, literally everything I buy/have interest in comes from the UK. I accidentally bought a vinyl from the UK without thinking the other day, and it's going to cost me > 40 quid after taxes.
 
if you were to tot up who was on each side, the numbers of MPs and those in the Cabinet were overwhelmingly in favour of Remain.

Boris was clearly a big personality, and probably won the referendum for Leave - but he was in the minority.
Numerically there were more pro-remain, but there were plenty of loud voices on the leave side. The likes of Gove, IDS, Redwood, JRM and the ERG crowd all got loads of coverage, columns in the Telegraph and Sun etc...Even Mark fecking Francois became a household name.
Anyway, we're going over old ground.
 
Numerically there were more pro-remain, but there were plenty of loud voices on the leave side. The likes of Gove, IDS, Redwood, JRM and the ERG crowd all got loads of coverage, columns in the Telegraph and Sun etc...Even Mark fecking Francois became a household name.
Anyway, we're going over old ground.

indeed. Clearly we disagree. But been done to death.
 
Are people in the UK experiencing any effects from Brexit, when shopping online? Or are you able to get everything easy enough from within the UK? Online shopping for me has become an absolute nightmare, literally everything I buy/have interest in comes from the UK. I accidentally bought a vinyl from the UK without thinking the other day, and it's going to cost me > 40 quid after taxes.
It seems a lot of people are, I fear this happening to me when I need to buy something online.

I'm worried what happens when the stockpiles run out and lorries are still stuck at the border.
 
I'm worried what happens when the stockpiles run out and lorries are still stuck at the border.
Everyday will be like Black Friday, but instead of fistfighting in the aisles of Asda over the last crap massive flatscreen TV, it'll be over tomato soup and potatoes.
 
It seems a lot of people are, I fear this happening to me when I need to buy something online.

I'm worried what happens when the stockpiles run out and lorries are still stuck at the border.

The problem is the UK government are still lying to the people and in particular , Gove. The customs checks and tariffs and duties and VAT and phytosanitary checks and veterinary checks and rules of origin and all the rest of the bureaucracy are not going to go away. People will get used to it and become more efficient but this system is not suitable for countries geographically close because there is not enough time (nevermind the costings) to deal with it.

This is part of what Brexiteers voted for, this was a certainty ,blame them as they insisted they knew what they were voting for.
 
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Seems like this is similar to the last four years of hell here in America.

You can’t simply discount the abject idiocy of the electorate who voted for both abortions in both cases, Brexit & Trump. It’s squarely on them. Politicians lie & will continue to lie, this will not change ever. The knowledge of the electorate is what can be changed. It may have to come from the other side lying more as someone in here stated.

But to not apportion rightful blame on those who voted for Brexit / Trump is to miss the point entirely. Gaslighting or whitewashing is what causes repeated horror, not holding feet to fires. It’s a messy way of going forward, it doesn’t feel as good as forgiving, but actions have consequences & they need to be discussed without fears of hurting feelings.
 
Seems like this is similar to the last four years of hell here in America.

You can’t simply discount the abject idiocy of the electorate who voted for both abortions in both cases, Brexit & Trump. It’s squarely on them. Politicians lie & will continue to lie, this will not change ever. The knowledge of the electorate is what can be changed. It may have to come from the other side lying more as someone in here stated.

But to not apportion rightful blame on those who voted for Brexit / Trump is to miss the point entirely. Gaslighting or whitewashing is what causes repeated horror, not holding feet to fires. It’s a messy way of going forward, it doesn’t feel as good as forgiving, but actions have consequences & they need to be discussed without fears of hurting feelings.

Absolutely, people have to be held to account and lessons have to be learnt.

The advantage the USA had with Trump is that they could get rid of him after four years, which they have.
The UK is stuck with this for an indefinite number of years, decades until they rejoin the Customs Union and Single Market if they ever do so.
 
Absolutely, people have to be held to account and lessons have to be learnt.

The advantage the USA had with Trump is that they could get rid of him after four years, which they have.
The UK is stuck with this for an indefinite number of years, decades until they rejoin the Customs Union and Single Market if they ever do so.
And it seems that the negative consequences will be felt far more acutely by the Leave voters in the UK than Trump voters getting Biden here.

It’s breathtaking that so many saw Brexit as a potential positive. They should never be not held to account. Who gives a feck that the vote was almost five years ago? That means nothing. That’s almost as stupid a take as actually voting for Brexit.
 
The whole thing with not allowing touring artists in to the uk, therefore the EU responding in kind, is just completely baffling. Like the uk are trying their hardest to be cnuts and make it shit for us.
 
Everyday will be like Black Friday, but instead of fistfighting in the aisles of Asda over the last crap massive flatscreen TV, it'll be over tomato soup and potatoes.

If and when that type of things happen, Boris and his party, who wouldn't know the truth even when there are massive que's at the food banks, would lie yet again and find someone else to blame. They probably have a long list already.