Hey, you're preaching to the converted here. I'm not saying that they're not lying or that they're not stupid. Just trying to second guess their next move.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Hey, you're preaching to the converted here. I'm not saying that they're not lying or that they're not stupid. Just trying to second guess their next move.
One of the 21 MPs on chief whip offer: “One of the most self-unaware letters I’ve received...The party is now led by a narrow sect who wouldn’t be out of place in a muppet version of the Handmaiden’s tale. It’s like being asked by captain if you want to get back on the Titanic.”
Has to be Clarke or Soames surely.
Has to be Clarke or Soames surely.He can expect that if he wants. He won't get it. I agree there's no easy answer which is why the general Labour position, which covers more bases, feels the closest to a consensus position. The actual specifics if what Labour would try to negotiate are unknown and not really the point for me. The position of election to renegotiate if possible to referendum on deal/revoke A50 and them implement actual plans based on that result seems to me the closest to defusing this mess that we have.
What a ludicrous suggestion. Food quality at the liwer cost end is bad enough already without making it even worse.
Why not just abolish all hygiene and food standards. The poor (those who don't die of food poisoning) would be so much better off.
In order:
i) I don't personally need that level of clarity and any party stating unequivocally what they'll deliver is playing games especially if they think they might actually form a Government. In short, it's not about voting leave or remain, it's about voting for the party that has as close to a sensible position as is possible on how they'll deal with this situation (leave no matter what or revoke no matter what are divisive positions even though one of those outcomes is my personal desire). The ref 2 would decide on the Brexit issue. This makes sense to me.
2. They may refuse to renegotiate but with a majority government with a different approach my bet is they would.
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But he has stated on numerous occasions what he plans to do - if that changes after the conference and Labour adopt a crystal clear position they may have a chance in an election - but it will probably be too late by then.
Letwin believes there is a majority in parliament to legislate for a second referendum pre-election.
Brexit purgatory with a Labour government. Jeez.
Whats the point of a second referendum before an election?
Boris doesn't have a deal. He has no deal.
May's deal is hated by bother remainers and leavers alike so that will never be on the ballot.
The leavers will never agree to having remain on the ballot.
It needs an election with clear mandates from all parties. If a party or coalition which have campaigned with a second referendum promise can form a majority and can agree on what is on the ballot then there will be value in a second referendum.
Trying to get this parliament to agree on what should be on the ballot of a second referendum would lead to no deal if that is still the default position, or eternal remain.
As opposed to the last number of years...
ordeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrer
It's disturbing how the use of a scottish court is seen as an issue by some. It gives the impression that for some Scotland is a lesser member of the Union.
Yes it has been bad, but apart from the pound slipping all of the other economic indicators have somehow held up.
I don't think that would be the case in the event of the same Brexit stalemate + Corbyn.
Unfortunately that is the impression that everybody outside of England has in relation to their own part of the UK - Northern Ireland clearly is a second class member of the union - Scotland should be an equal partner to England but in practice they simply are not - I'm not sure about Wales but I'm sure many there probably feel the same way. England rule the roost for good or bad or at least that is the impression they make. It is causing enormous resentment.
Scotland is treated better than most places in England outside of London. There are two versions of England, there's London, and outside London. The latter has no real representation.
It basically goes like this
London
Scotland
Everywhere else
And this has been the case under consecutive governments, from both parties.
That is a fair point and you are 100% correct of course. The north of England is about as ignored as everywhere else.
One man's unpalatable is another man's abhorrent of course. Some people may find buying clothes made with Brazilian leather resulting in the destruction of the Amazon a necessary evil, others may find it abhorrent... However the EU hasn't banned Brazilian produce; so who decides? My view is the people should always decide.
Yes they are stricter... For reasons of protectionism. The EU will not harmonise their standards with the US because it would hit EU corporations who lobby the EU... The only person who would benefit would be the common EU man who could then choose between cheaper produce or "nicer" produce; they aren't a consideration though.
There are laws against child labour for EU manufacturing of course; as there arein the UK irrespective (I was referring to foreign imports where it's less clear cut and where the media and people's conscience has done more in this area ).
Again I'm unsure why people seem to think the EU are so magnanimous. Maybe if people applied the same level of scrutiny to things they're naturally in favour of, compared with things they're naturally opposed to we'd have a less polarised country.
Quoted only because it's the truth.
And that's why the next big push for TBP (assuming we do Leave the EU as they envisage) is to push for an English Parliament.
There would then be;
An English Parliament; (Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, all put your hands up now if you are interested in housing the English Parliament)
A Scottish Parliament; (Holyrood)
NI Assembly or return of Stormont;
Welsh Assembly
Overarched by the UK Parliament at Westminster, which would be made up proportionately by members from the 4 National Parliaments.
A new written UK Constitution which allows for some precedents, but ensures Human Rights are enshrined in the Constitution and cannot be removed and also there is a clear division between Politics and the Law.
That's it job done, will unite everybody.
Nominations for the 'Speaker' for each parliament to be entered below please:
I'm just waiting for them to cancel HS2 phase 2 after sorting the London lines. They seem to be paving the path to do so already.
There are some parts of the UK that are actually some of the poorest areas within the EU as a whole. Northen Ireland is one of the poorest regions in Europe as are many parts of England, Wales, etc. All the wealth is situated in one city and much of the focus on the Government/media, etc. is also on that one city. It's incredibly annoying as somebody who is not remotely interested in what is trendy in London since that is all you get rammed down your throat 24/7. I'm surprised that London hasn't been burnt down by the 80% of the population here that doesn't live in it.
I knew this was your post before I checked the username.
The country is London focused, which is unsurprising and that has led to arguably disproportionate investment and support which does need addressed. However, it is clearly not the case that the entire of the rest of the country is ignored (although much of it is). Given the purpose of this website I can imagine that one prominent Northern English city which has received significant investment and focus in recent years might spring to mind.
As for your point regarding Scotland: having had brief debates with you in this thread and read your interactions with others I would rather remove my own nails with spoons than enter into protracted conversation regarding this matter, but I shall summarise my position thusly: your statement is utterly baseless bollocks.
I'm obviously biased for the North West but if you could turn Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds into effectively a single economic area through high speed rail I think it would be transformative for the North West and Yorkshire.
This is quite a powerful report
http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_regions_poorest_North_Europe.pdf
Richest place in Northern Europe is inner London whilst the top 10 poor areas in Northern Europe are in other parts of England, Northern Ireland and Wales!
Global warming will save us as it plunges the cess pit into the sea!
Rev up your diesels!
Glasgow has the lowest life expectancy of any major city in Western Europe.
If I'm not mistaken, there is a problem with alcohol and drug usage in Scotland?
Bloody hell, nobody said Scotland was rolling in it, only that it has represention areas of England could only dream of. Relax FFS.
Yes. I can understand that. I am hopeful though that they will realise that now is the time for clear thinking and even clearer policy.
It's incredible that this is not much higher up the agenda than it is - but no all we hear about is what great shit is going on in London over and over again. If you take London out of the equation then the UK is probably one of the poorest areas in Europe as a whole - Great Britain my arse!
How about if the US just harmonised their standards with the EU? You could argue refusing to harmonise (read upgrade) standards is just as protectionist on the US side as it is the EU refusing to downgrade to US standards.
I would imagine if Brazil can export chicken to the EU, then Brazil abides by the regs.
Consumer rights are not the only rights that matter.
And nobody thinks the EU are magnanimous. Not sure where you've got that from.
Damn that's shocking. Does it include ireland? I'm surprised Dublin isn't in the richest regions and the Midlands isn't in the poorest!
It's just crazy, there is no good reason for that type of thing, 9 out of the top 10 of the poorest regions in a single country.
Just realized Gove looks like Rick Moranis
There is but that correlates to deprivation. There's also the Glasgow Effect (it's an actual thing!) which no-one really understands where even affluent areas have a lower life expectancy than, say, equivalent areas in Edinburgh.
It would include Ireland as its Northern Europe. Shropshire and Staffordshire are in the midlands. Birmingham is the third wealthiest city in UK and also within reasonable commuting distance to London by train. Although some of the deprived areas are very deprived there is wealth there.
Sorry I missed the area in Belgium.
I will not relax. I'm Glaswegian. I've got weeks to live.
Bloody hell, nobody said Scotland was rolling in it, only that it has represention areas of England could only dream of. Relax FFS.
Admittedly there's really just the central belt, Aberdeen, Inverness, Perth, Dundee (it'll be lovely when it's finished) and basically vast expanses of tundra punctuated by weird villages occasionally.
If you asked outside of Ed and Glasgow, they'll see themselves as under-represented in the same way areas of England would in relation to the South. I get that in England you see Scotland as a homogenous entity understandably.
I'm pretty sure it's based on population so Ireland only has 2 regions. I guess the areas Dublin is grouped in with bring it down and the cities drag up the poorer areas.