It is perfectly simple. It is only a threat to the UK, like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
And anyway. The EU don't believe it.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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It is perfectly simple. It is only a threat to the UK, like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
And anyway. The EU don't believe it.
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like a mess - Good luck with that!
Ok. Seems to me the hostility is primarily originating with you but it's your choice. You've dropped into a long standing thread which, clearly, is primarily pro remain and are making arguments that have been discussed extensively in a tone that, and it mat be that you can't perceive this, is aggressively condescending.
If you want to have a debate in those circumstances I'd imagine it'd be wise to take a different tack otherwise the flame war that you're at the heart of will escalate with no progress made. You will be seen as a troll, perhaps with justification.
It would be if that is what he was doing. He as no plan apart from winding down the clock. EU have moved on .
And you are giving all that up to be like Serbia and N Korea.
You arent the best informed if you think Boris has a plan other than hard Brexit
There is delaying while you negotiate, there is another referendum with real and clear alternatives and there is even revocation of A50. Lurching out like a petulant teenager is far from the only possibility. You just don't like them.
So it seems they really are moving against Bercow. Leadsom is gleefully briefing and genuinely trying to claim Bercow not kowtowing to her cabal's will suggests impartiality. The Tories are standing against their own speaker at an election: let that sink in.
If you switch the analogy to it being you selling the house, the threat is something like this:
- You: If you don't buy the house for this price, I'll set the house on fire
- Potential buyer to you: Eh, I suggest you don't. In any case, we've given you our final offer, and we think it's very fair.
- Potential buyer to his friends: He wouldn't actually set his house on fire, would he? I do quite like the house. His negotiating position is just silly. I suppose if he does set the house on fire, he'll probably call the firefighters and maintain the damage. Maybe we can get a cut price deal along with a refurbed house? He wouldn't just watch it burn to the ground...would he?! If not, hey ho, my house is pretty good for now anyway. He seems a bit nuts.
- You (to the entire world): Psssst, it's just a threat, these fools can't handle my negotiating skillz. They don't know where to turn!
- Potential buyer to you: Just to clarify, we're still not interested in negotiating further. Can we sign the deal on the table, or do you want to go ahead and set the house on fire?
- You: My plan is working perfectly
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There were well over 1300 pages when I first posted so obviously I wasn't about to read all that. Anyway, I could surmise the just of it rather quickly. Heavily bias for remain as you state.
The reality is that outside of forums like this, the vast majority of people have just been getting on with their lives. These frankly pointless debates between voters, after the fact achieve nothing. Those who take to the streets achieve a little more, but ultimately it's nothing.
We are all part of an extreme minority obsessing over Brexit. Outside of these forums and protests the 64million plus people who barely mention it and instead focus on what matters to them.
Article 50 has a time limit. Subject to EI approval and UK acceptance of any extension, there comes a point where it simply becomes a case of us no longer being in the EU.
Word this morning was that France are to veto the extension.
The other options you mention have not been put forward nor do they have anything close to the support required. Revoking A50 has the support of about 100 MPs, it's a fringe option at best. The same with a second referendum.
Technically he's independent as he has to give up the Tory whip. He was also shifting away from the Tories before becoming speaker, even to the point of rumours circulating that he was about to jump ship to Labour.
6 million people signed that petition to revoke article 50
I think most people are worried about it
Any evidence of those rumours?
I reserve the right to change my mindWhats this we kimosabe? You are a dub now
It's not a bias. It is an opinion. Impartiality is not required. I also don't think people think discussing the matter on a football sub forum is likely to influence the political direction of the country. The discussion, which you consider pointless (all things which don't directly influence legislation therefore are I assume), is rendered yet more pointless by your inflammatory rhetoric.
Utter pedantry. All speakers surrender the whip obviously. He is however an elected Tory MP and an actual member of the Tory party.
The Conservative party, the party of tradition and procedure, are standing against their own man in an election as an act of revenge by the fringe that now controls them. That is extraordinary.
The Tory party exists in name only now. Boris is Farage’s puppet. It’s utterly pathetic.
Weird thing is that I don’t think the Boris ever envisioned any of this or dreamt of becoming a tinpot dictator like Trump would have but he’s boxed himself into this corner with his ambition and lies about Brexit.
He can’t really expect Europe to believe that no deal is such a frightening prospect that they need to cave to his demands and give him this wonderful deal that he wants, while at the same time trying to convince the British people that no deal would be fine and the economy could prosper. Makes no sense.
Party membership is rescinded upon becoming speaker.
The extreme Brexit dickheads are so rabid now that any deal is likely to be rejected by Farage and crew as caving in. Boris's alignment with them puts his ability to sell any deal in question to such an extent that I think he is not bothering to try to get one, even though he knows it makes sense for the country. The only deal that really makes any sense is a very soft Brexit that keeps us in the EEA and Customs Union, but he can't sell that to his followers now. His hope is that we officially leave 'with no deal' but both sides admit their plans are not really in place and agree to some last ditch transition agreement on trade of goods at least. It should not be allowed to happen. The impact will be huge.
The best hope for any deal is that all the moderates just shrug their shoulders and accept it as better than kicking the can down the road. Most remainers, in the end, don't really care about the political union, they just see the benefits of the economic one. They should probably have voted for the May deal.
The best hope for any deal is that all the moderates just shrug their shoulders and accept it as better than kicking the can down the road. Most remainers, in the end, don't really care about the political union, they just see the benefits of the economic one. They should probably have voted for the May deal.
I despair whenever i see people think the no deal threat makes sense. It's like the household budget and austerity all over again. Reduce complexity down to a simplistic argument that makes sense in a simple scenario.
A lose lose threat only makes sense where the thing you're seeking is a tolerable loss to the other side. If you're asking for something they can't give you're just locking in the lose lose.
Imagine the EU demanding we stay in the single market permanently or it's no deal? It's a threat they could make but they know it's not a winnable position.
The EU do not want this to go on forever, they don't need some outlandish threat to make a reasonable adjustment. Unfortunately we're not coming up with any reasonable requests.
A lose lose threat only makes sense where the thing you're seeking is a tolerable loss to the other side. If you're asking for something they can't give you're just locking in the lose lose.
Imagine the EU demanding we stay in the single market permanently or it's no deal? It's a threat they could make but they know it's not a winnable position.
The EU do not want this to go on forever, they don't need some outlandish threat to make a reasonable adjustment. Unfortunately we're not coming up with any reasonable requests.
Top post and well put.
Threats can work if they are realistic. If the choice is between buying that house or sleeping on the streets were 99% you'll end up killed then that is not threat at all.
Bernie Sanders? His followers would seem to agree.
Why would this benefit the UK?
I wouldn't want to consume Bernie's body
A banker, a builder and a benefit beneficiary all stand around a table with 12 biscuits on it. The banker takes 11 of the biscuits and turns to the builder and says "jet fuel can't melt steel beams". Then the builder votes Tory and ends up eating boiled rat stew for the rest of his life, furiously wanking into a sock and muttering "fecking EU bastards" under his breath.
Your pedantry is extraordinary. The point, as you are very aware, is that the sitting speaker of the Commons is about to have a candidate set against the speaker seeking re-election by the parliamentary party which he was elected from. This is extraordinary.
If you don't get the implications of why, the Government are attempting to force the speaker from the chair by standing against them, when they are very party from which he came, as he is refusing to concede to their demands.
aaaaaaaaaaaand this is why we’re fecked
Honestly it riles me so much reading that sort of stuff.
Quality control
Good grief man!
I politely informed you that you were mistaken.
That is neither pedantic or worthy of your numerous replies.
What is pedantic was questioning my grammar in your initial post.
Traitors! Cowards! "Didn't say that on the ballot paper!"! Will of the people! Fuzzy Wuzzies on the village green! Commies in the Post Office!
Why can't decent people commit tax evasion or, if at the cap doffing end of the spectrum, have the right to erode working conditions, lose their jobs and call a spade a spade without these elected bastards expressing the sovereign will of our parliament and stopping the realisation of whatever I happen to believe Brexit is?
Yeah you and me both. I’ve got to be so careful at work as I’m manager of a department where you typically hear that kind of horseshit on a regular basis, along with “we should just leave ASAP so we can get on with things after brexit”, and “Boris is just trying to do what the public votes for”. I did tell one of my clerks that Boris couldn’t give the slightest feck about her and would shit on her in a second to feather his own nest. Left it at that though
If someone could just stand up and tell the truth, not a ‘version’ of it, that would be great.
Yes because your posting style pissed me off far more than your views. Cry coward and insult posters and I will respond with pedantry.
You politely read a post, politely ignored its actual point and then politely selected a single aspect of it to reply to. That is
pedantry. I am, however, glad that you will be here to correct me in future and trust you will display the same level of exactitude in your Richard Littlejohn tribute opinion pieces in future.