Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
What if Johnson does get in as leader? Could he revoke article 50 and then call a GE but tories run on a no deal mandate and hope they get a majority?
 
Ixion said:
I don't think No Deal needs to get past parliament does it? There were votes on it but May could have ignored them? If someone comes in supporting No Deal I can see it happening.
Click to expand...

The EU have said its the withdrawal deal or no deal, doesn't really matter what our MP's say then does it?

Jippy said:
It's a dead end argument. Besides being patronising, misguided and obnoxious, from a dispassionate perspective, it would be a vote-killer for any party trying to enforce it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunate choice of words there, but I agree with you!

Jippy said:
Rees-Mogg on Peston last night said Tories will never have coalition with Brexit Party cos the situation won't arise. He says if Tories deliver Brexit, Farage et al are irrelevant. If Tories don't deliver, they'll be wiped out.
Made more sense the way he explained it (and that's a sentence I never thought I'd type out).
Click to expand...

Yes JRM does have a way of explaining things well, pity about the rest of his credentials, might have made a good PM!
 
afrocentricity said:
Maybe because he wants to find out what the rest of the country think in 2019? He can speak for himself but it confuses me why some people jump to the assumption that those wanting a 2nd ref only want it if they get their preferred result.

In my mind everyone should be okay with a second vote but clearly I'm missing something...
Click to expand...

Do you really think everyone who says they want a second referendum, would be advocating one if the result had gone their way first time...seriously?
 
Maticmaker said:
Do you really think everyone who says they want a second referendum, would be advocating one if the result had gone their way first time...seriously?
Click to expand...

But what situation would have occured to warrant another vote? If the EU doubled the contribution or insisted on an army then maybe perhaps you'd have justification for another.

The justification now is that we have new information.
 
Maticmaker said:
The EU have said its the withdrawal deal or no deal, doesn't really matter what our MP's say then does it?



Unfortunate choice of words there, but I agree with you!



Yes JRM does have a way of explaining things well, pity about the rest of his credentials, might have made a good PM!
Click to expand...
Maticmaker said:
The EU have said its the withdrawal deal or no deal, doesn't really matter what our MP's say then does it?



Unfortunate choice of words there, but I agree with you!



Yes JRM does have a way of explaining things well, pity about the rest of his credentials, might have made a good PM!
Click to expand...
He talks well, just shame about his odious views and policies! His comment about his book being the only thing to get worse reviews than May's deal did make me chuckle though.
 
Maticmaker said:
Do you really think everyone who says they want a second referendum, would be advocating one if the result had gone their way first time...seriously?
Click to expand...

Well obviously not because we wouldn't then be mired in the Slough of Despond we currently find ourselves in. We've got constitutional crises left and right, a hamstrung parliament and no obvious and deliverable way of proceeding within our current institutions. That's the situation, irrespective of motive. It's a reasonable, if not necessarily correct, position to hold that a second referendum offers a solution to the impasse, and that goes for Brexiters too.
 
Jippy said:
Was having a debate with someone yesterday about whether Cameron or May was the worst ever PM. Cameron has to win that for that single catastrophic decision imo, but my friend reckons May for her complete abject ineptitude. Tough call.
Click to expand...
I think for consistent ineptitude, and the catastrophic failure of calling the last election, May has to take that honour.
 
Ixion said:
I don't think No Deal needs to get past parliament does it? There were votes on it but May could have ignored them? If someone comes in supporting No Deal I can see it happening.
Click to expand...

Oldyella said:
What if Johnson does get in as leader? Could he revoke article 50 and then call a GE but tories run on a no deal mandate and hope they get a majority?
Click to expand...

Yes he could, BoJo is not a "hard" leaver though, despite what you might read. I expect he would try to negotiate again, with "no deal" as a backup, and try to get a majority at a GE to support that.

Question for me is when it twiggs with Tory leadership hopefuls that with the extension, the EU have the UK over a barrel. We need to revoke before we can do anything.

No deal does need to get past parliament. It can be stopped, and with our current parliament where 500~ MPs oppose leaving without a deal, that is what would happen IMO. MPs can revoke or force the (by changing PM via FTPA if absolutely needed) PM to extend if they don't want no deal, for an election or referendum. Only after that public vote would it then be a realistic outcome in my view.
 
Interested to see the results today. I was at a Eurovision party over the weekend, everyone under 30 and everyone was going to be voting for the Brexit party which isn't the narrative you get from the media.
 
Fiskey said:
Interested to see the results today. I was at a Eurovision party over the weekend, everyone under 30 and everyone was going to be voting for the Brexit party which isn't the narrative you get from the media.
Click to expand...
Sounds like quite the occasion.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
To claim that a 16 year old has better decision making than a 71 year old is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
About what? For example one of the biggest issues is climate change. Who is most affected - and therefore motivated to make a better decision - the 16 year old or the 71 yr old? Ditto housing availability or education.
 
Maticmaker said:
Do you really think everyone who says they want a second referendum, would be advocating one if the result had gone their way first time...seriously?
Click to expand...
Feck are you talking about? Parsing your comment, do you mean that those people that got what they want should be against giving the country a chance to confirm its decision (3 years later and with new information)?

Personally I disagree and for those that do, in this instance they are potentially choosing to take the country in a direction that leads to turmoil against the countries wishes. How does that sound to you?

In the even that Farage had to go through with his campaign for a second referendum, I would feel exactly the same.... Point being, things change, people should have the right to reassess. Why is this so hard for some to get their heads around?
 
nickm said:
About what? For example one of the biggest issues is climate change. Who is most affected - and therefore motivated to make a better decision - the 16 year old or the 71 yr old? Ditto housing availability or education.
Click to expand...

Most 16 year olds I know haven't gotten a clue about what's going on in the world to be fair.
 
afrocentricity said:
Feck are you talking about? Parsing your comment, do you mean that those people that got what they want should be against giving the country a chance to confirm its decision (3 years later and with new information)?

Personally I disagree and for those that do, in this instance they are potentially choosing to take the country in a direction that leads to turmoil against the countries wishes. How does that sound to you?

In the even that Farage had to go through with his campaign for a second referendum, I would feel exactly the same.... Point being, things change, people should have the right to reassess. Why is this so hard for some to get their heads around?[/QUOTE]

Because referendums are sold to the public as once in a lifetime occasions, and should therefore be acted upon first, before any further referendums are considered. That's what has happened since the 1975, the 'Common Market' has changed its now the EU, so another referendum was held, after forty years and admittedly by accident, but lets be clear no group of politician really wants to enact the 'will of the people', because by and large they collectively (with some individual exceptions) tend to hold the electorate in low esteem, as only being there to provide them with a job, but that's the nature of the beast.

Alex Salmond agreed this 'once in a lifetime' thing about the Scottish Ref and Cameron about the EU referendum... why because they thought they would get the result they wanted and both were wrong.

If we are to keep having referendum every few years (because yes, as you say things do change) then lets do away with GE's and only put forward referendums, let the public decide on everything, every time something changes, its nonsense and we all know it. People or the vast majority who want a second referendum is because they didn't win!
Click to expand...
 
Fiskey said:
Interested to see the results today. I was at a Eurovision party over the weekend, everyone under 30 and everyone was going to be voting for the Brexit party which isn't the narrative you get from the media.
Click to expand...

Watching Eurovision by yourself with a couple of tinnies and Doritos doesn't make it a party.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


So drink throwing is a thing now.

It’s easy to forget how many absolute shit heads are out and about in society. This whole Brexit thing has certainly made them more visible. The absolute state of these pastel clad gammons. Hard to imagine a more obviously despicable pair of wankers. The handshake at the end really nails it.
Click to expand...


Yer man in green trousers poking a flag in Femi's face calling him a traitor is Dr Niall McCrae a senior lecturer in mental health at KCL.

Considering the bed wetting about throwing milkshakes, I daresay had the roles been reversed and a left wing academic had been caught hurling abuse at a prominent Brexit supporting journalist we'd have had wall to wall coverage and calls to overhaul academia...
 
Fiskey said:
Interested to see the results today. I was at a Eurovision party over the weekend, everyone under 30 and everyone was going to be voting for the Brexit party which isn't the narrative you get from the media.
Click to expand...
I doubt that very much.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Yer man in green trousers poking a flag in Femi's face calling him a traitor is Dr Niall McCrae a senior lecturer in mental health at KCL.

Considering the bed wetting about throwing milkshakes, I daresay had the roles been reversed and a left wing academic had been caught hurling abuse at a prominent Brexit supporting journalist we'd have had wall to wall coverage and calls to overhaul academia...
Click to expand...

We had wall to wall coverage of people walking alongside Anna Soubry a few months ago. It’s all the media are interested in. Trivial bollocks
 
Jippy said:
Was having a debate with someone yesterday about whether Cameron or May was the worst ever PM. Cameron has to win that for that single catastrophic decision imo, but my friend reckons May for her complete abject ineptitude. Tough call.
Click to expand...

The problem with Cameron was that he wanted to be liked.
He would latch on to the latest issue and immediately have to have something to say about it.
He was a tactical thinker. He could only focus on that latest subject rather than keep his stupid mouth shut until he had thought things through.
He had no capacity for strategic planning.
TM on the other hand is not interested in being liked.
However, she has always been far too blinkered and can never accept it when she is (so often) wrong.
Two of the most inept leaders because both had no capacity to lead.
 
Cameron struck me as someone who would sell his own mother if it meant becoming prime minster back when he was leader of the opposition.
 
Mogget said:


How are you supposed to have a reasoned conversation about Brexit with someone like this woman? The sad thing is, I imagine more leavers than not think like this judging by the polls
Click to expand...


Fair play to that guy. Might be a leave wanker but I like the way he handled it.
 
Going to vote today. Who do I vote for that is most likely to beat Farage?
Is it just me or is there 3 far right options and 2 more right wing?
 
Last edited:
VeevaVee said:
Cheers. I was thinking Lib Dem, what with being a remainer.
Click to expand...
Yeah if you want to send a message about remaining in the eu, the lib dems(Or Greens as I think the libs are just awful, sorry)are the way to go but if it's just about beating Farage then Labour could be the way. It's only two recent polls that have shown the lib dem in second.
 
Sweet Square said:
Yeah if you want to send a message about remaining in the eu, the lib dems(Or Greens as I think the libs are just awful, sorry)are the way to go but if it's just about beating Farage then Labour could be the way. It's only two recent polls that have shown the lib dem in second.
Click to expand...

Honestly think Labour will get absolutely fecked in this election because of turnout maths.

If you're still voting Labour right now it suggests Brexit just isn't a big issue for you (one way or another), and – if that's the case – I just can't see why you would turn up to vote in the EU elections. Overtly, pro–Remain and pro–Brexit parties both benefit from having a more engaged base.

That could be wrong, but I suspect if turnout is up (and I get the impression it will be) it will really feck with polling predictions.
 
Sweet Square said:
Yeah if you want to send a message about remaining in the eu, the lib dems(Or Greens as I think the libs are just awful, sorry)are the way to go but if it's just about beating Farage then Labour could be the way. It's only two recent polls that have shown the lib dem in second.
Click to expand...

I was deliberating about Greens too. I'm not that clued up on the system. Do they have less chance of doing it like I'm thinking?
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Watching Eurovision by yourself with a couple of tinnies and Doritos doesn't make it a party.
Click to expand...

Hammerfell said:
I doubt that very much.
Click to expand...

Very strange reactions, why would I lie about this? I'm saying it because I was surprised, a couple of those who were there had voted to remain but changed their mind in the intervening period.
 
Fiskey said:
Very strange reactions, why would I lie about this? I'm saying it because I was surprised, a couple of those who were there had voted to remain but changed their mind in the intervening period.
Click to expand...
Not everyone can understand simple maths and statistics I'm afraid, although to be fair to SalfordRed I think he was just making a joke.

For what it's worth I was out with a group of 70ish people yesterday, almost all were Remainers and some quite vehemently so. Obviously the chances of that are about half the chance of finding a group of Leave-inclined 70 year-olds, but all their votes counted the same nonetheless, and rightly so.
 
Anyone else have a problem with the vote form not fitting in the fecking envelope? Stupid as feck. I'm taking it to the polling station obviously, just in case anyone is wondering.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Honestly think Labour will get absolutely fecked in this election because of turnout maths.

If you're still voting Labour right now it suggests Brexit just isn't a big issue for you (one way or another), and – if that's the case – I just can't see why you would turn up to vote in the EU elections. Overtly, pro–Remain and pro–Brexit parties both benefit from having a more engaged base.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm not excepting labour to do well at all. The newest poll showing them in third makes far more sense to me then when they were just behind the brexit party.

I think the main reason to vote Labour(And this has been their messaging)is to stop Farage coming first which is something I guess but in the end that alone doesn't stop Farage or the brexit party in the long term and certainly doesn't send a message to politicians(Whatever the means anymore). But also I think I'm right in saying that Labour going well in these election(Presuming the UK somehow stays in the EU)would flip the EU parliament to the left which again is something.

NinjaFletch said:
That could be wrong, but I suspect if turnout is up (and I get the impression it will be) it will really feck with polling predictions.
Click to expand...
Hopefully considering the recent polls are god awful for anyone on the liberal to left side but I've prepared myself to be let down.

Intersting bit of polling.


VeevaVee said:
I was deliberating about Greens too. I'm not that clued up on the system. Do they have less chance of doing it like I'm thinking?
Click to expand...
At quick look at polls shows their peak so far is around 10% so no chance of wining but possible could get 3rd with good turnout.
But as fletch says if turnout is high all these polls could be useless.


I just can't vote for the lib dems because of the coalition days.
 
afrocentricity said:
Why are your replies formatted like this?

Anyway lets agree to disagree. This is like groundhog day, we've had nearly 3 fecking years to implement it but here we are, still. You carry on...
Click to expand...


Format...sorry must have pressed the wrong button
 
Sweet Square said:
Yeah I'm not excepting labour to do well at all. The newest poll showing them in third makes far more sense to me then when they were just behind the brexit party.

I think the main reason to vote Labour(And this has been their messaging)is to stop Farage coming first which is something I guess but in the end that alone doesn't stop Farage or the brexit party in the long term and certainly doesn't send a message to politicians(Whatever the means anymore). But also I think I'm right in saying that Labour going well in these election(Presuming the UK somehow stays in the EU)would flip the EU parliament to the left which again is something.


Hopefully considering the recent polls are god awful for anyone on the liberal to left side but I've prepared myself to be let down.

Intersting bit of polling.



At quick look at polls shows their peak so far is around 10% so no chance of wining but possible could get 3rd with good turnout.
But as fletch says if turnout is high all these polls could be useless.


I just can't vote for the lib dems because of the coalition days.
Click to expand...


Yep, that's true for me. Thought I should suck it up and go Lib Dem, but decided to go Green in the ballot box. At the very least, I thought it was worth having a double hit and voting for Pro-Eu, pro-not-burning-the fecking-world-to-the-ground policies.

Have ipsos modelled turnout for those numbers, do you know?
 
Sweet Square said:
Makes sense, I'm just a very bitter person.
Click to expand...

Although Cable might be smug about it i really don't see a link to domestic issues with this election. GE and European elections are so far removed from each other, this is the first one of any importance really
 
Smores said:
Although Cable might be smug about it i really don't see a link to domestic issues with this election. GE and European elections are so far removed from each other, this is the first one of any importance really
Click to expand...

I think you are right, unfortunately for the Lib Dems, as well as the benefits, there are problems in remaining in the EU and these have now been given a good public airing.

For Farage's party no one knows for sure what will happen after Brexit. Therefore the irony might be that the Brexit party wins lots of EU seats, but still has little sway at home, and we do finish up with the HoC in trying to stem Farage's success they end up revoking A50, believing perhaps they have shot Farage's fox, by the UK remaining a EU member. However the Brexit Party is then the largest UK faction in its continuing membership of EU and through that foothold, it begins to builds its home base via its activities in its 'glorious' battling to change the EU from within.

Stranger things have happened.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.